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Re: [adobe] Re: floors final story

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  • first snow
    Re: [adobe] Re: floors final storyConsider other solutions for sealing than linseed oil...there are lots, including paint, and masonry sealants...and
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 14, 2004
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      Re: [adobe] Re: floors final story
      Consider other solutions for sealing than linseed oil...there are lots, including paint, and masonry sealants...and personally, since I cannot recall when I last spilled anything wet on any floor in the house except the kitchen, why bother to seal it at all?   you have a mud (!!!) floor--why try to make it concrete?  Charles del rito
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 5:10 PM
      Subject: Re: [adobe] Re: floors final story

      Well, I'm glad Lynda's solution got posted. Ever since I asked Anita Rodriquez (at the Adobe Conference) what to do when you've let puddles of linseed sit too long and she answered "nothing, the floor is ruined" I understood the absolute necessity in careful use of the stuff.

      My only consolation was that even Anita admitted she had to learn the hard way.

      Wax would seem to be a good solution. At least it would seal the tackiness but I suspect there are still slightly soft spots.

      I intend to look at that floor carefully if Lynda would let me back in the house.

      What happened to the floor was this:

      I used a test brick of the soil for the floor that was left in the sun to see how the oil would seep in.

      I was up to a series of 5 layers of different mixes of oil and turp, the brick which started out light and was just getting to a nice dark color. (lynda wanted as dark as possible) I had heard about a floor that I worked on that the owner put 7 layers of oil that made it very rich dark brown and so very well sealed that water couldn't penetrate.

      But the brick was sitting in the sun and the layers were put on with days/weeks in between.

      The hired applicator of the oil was told to put on oil of at least 5 layers in less than a week over an indoor floor that took months to dry and had several sessions of polishing.

      The oil started pooling after the second layer and by the third layer in less than a week it was clear that the oil wasn't going to penetrate any further (it had already achieved a pitch black color).

      I tried fixing it with turp a week later but that was clearly hopeless. (I had been warned about all of this)

      There was one other solution that Miguel at Cookes Hardware in Espanola recommended from the beginning.

      Use Lacquer and Lacquer thinner to create a hard shiny surface. He uses that as his preferred finish.

      Lesson Learned:

      Never leave a puddle of linseed oil sit in the open air.

      I'm presently doing a floor for a client is worried about the outgassing of the oil. It's for a spa room and the client is anxious to use the floor asap but doen't want to deal with the odor.

      She has been told to let the oil sit for a few days (to outgas) before I put it on. Because of my previous experience I said:

      "how about this: you work with the room as is (completely natural) since your clients are ready for a day in nature. Don't worry about the furniture marking up the floor or dropping massage oil on it...or glasses of wine. The worst thing that can happen is you spill a gallon of water that will create a nasty mud puddle for awhile...I'll resurface the whole thing at the end of autumn when you close down the building anyway and I will do a slow and careful linseed oil treatment then."

      I'm just terrified of linseed oil that has sat too long in the open air.

      So should anyone using it.

      Jim



      on 8/9/04 1:58 PM, Quentin Wilson at qwilson@... wrote:

      Great, thanks for the report. I am sorry for the inconvenience but the information will be passed on to future generations of adobe floor builders.
      Quentin

      At 04:26 PM 8/8/2004 -0400, you wrote:
      Hi Quenton, Just wanted you to know that the final story with the "tackyness that remained forever until I took a commercial petroleum wax and covered it--with several coats (too rough seemingly to get a high polish--but this acted as a great sealer!) Hope you and family are having a great summer.
      Sincerely,
      Lynda


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    • Quentin Wilson
      Linseed oil gives a mud floor a leathery texture and makes it darker. It does make the floor considerably more resistant to scuffing from shoes and furniture.
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 15, 2004
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        Linseed oil gives a mud floor a leathery texture and makes it darker. It
        does make the floor considerably more resistant to scuffing from shoes and
        furniture.

        Mud floors have been done for milennia without linseed oil.

        Linseed oil is the classic oil that spontaneously combusts. The saddest
        story of my life was that I gummed the floor on the studio of the late
        Maxine Fine in Vallecitos. I had to get down on my hands and knees and
        wipe, wipe, wipe seventeen times the gum from the floor using turpentine
        and paper towels. The towels were tossed outside on what New Mexicans call
        a lawn to oxidize. Later, I gathered up the towels in a cardboard box and
        tossed it in the ledgendary 1965 Ford half-ton, V-8, three-speed and drove
        it to my house where I switched over to the Dodge Dakota, the first vehicle
        which I ever bought new, only to have it, just a day or two after I had
        decided that I could take good enough care of it so that I would last the
        rest of my construction career, stolen. Apparently the wind of the ride in
        back of the Ford had oxidized the towels enough and there were enough of
        them to act as insulation so that the core overheated and burst into flames
        only to be noticed by chance by Maria from the Mesa Vista High School where
        she taught High School English thereby prompting her to come home, get the
        hose and put out the fire on a truck that she hated with a passion, even
        though it had earlier played a key role in the construction of the mud
        floors treated with linseed oil in our house which she loves,after most of
        the trash in the back of the truck had been burned along with half of the
        interior and exterior paint on the bed of the truck demarked by a nice
        diagonal line from the top of the back to the bottom of the front of the
        bed just barely saving the cab. The tragedy is that when I got home that
        Wednesday night, I was too tired to go to the Ojo Caliente Volunteer Fire
        Department meeting which no doubt would err on the side of too much talk
        and too little practice in pulling out the hoses, starting the pumps and
        squirting water at a practice fire, only to find out later that indeed it
        was all talk but that the subject and movie of the evening was on the evils
        of spontaneous combustion. Just think, I could have arrived in the truck
        spontaneously combusted just that day! Sad, huh?

        Later, just for fun, I got in the habit of soaking sponges in linseed oil
        and tossing them on the ground on breezy days to amaze friends, workers and
        enemies. If they don't burst into flames, they char.

        Linseed oil does not outgas. It ingases. It does not dry, it oxidizes to a
        less liquid form. Letting linseed oil sit out in the open is to allow it to
        take up oxygen and begin the oxidation process toward the gummy equivalent
        of tepifaction. Artists have used it for years and are familiar with the
        concept that any puddle turns to gum. Somehow the magic is that when
        linseed oil penetrates a surface the molecules wander around the other
        material and the result is a serendipitous matrix wherein the whole exceeds
        the sum of the parts. Call it synergy and the concept can be sold to the
        most heartless of the dainty chemical avoiders.

        I love the smell of linseed oil. If someone does not love it then it should
        be avoided even though once cured fully, there is no trace of smell that I
        can detect.

        Laquer and Laquer Thinner should be used indoors only with a ANSI rated
        type 1A gas impermeable twin carbon filter or really bad things or merely
        death results.
      • jmak2415@cybermesa.com
        Has anyone ever seen cement lentils?(not sure on the spelling) There is a house I m looking at and it has them what would you say about them? Monique ... From:
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 7, 2004
        • 0 Attachment
          Has anyone ever seen cement lentils?(not sure on the spelling)
          There is a house I'm looking at and it has them what would you say about
          them? Monique

          ---------- Original Message -----------
          From: Quentin Wilson <qwilson@...>
          To: adobe@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:17:52 -0600
          Subject: Re: [adobe] Re: floors final story

          > Linseed oil gives a mud floor a leathery texture and makes it
          > darker. It does make the floor considerably more resistant to
          > scuffing from shoes and furniture.
          >
          > Mud floors have been done for milennia without linseed oil.
          >
          > Linseed oil is the classic oil that spontaneously combusts. The
          > saddest story of my life was that I gummed the floor on the studio
          > of the late Maxine Fine in Vallecitos. I had to get down on my hands
          > and knees and wipe, wipe, wipe seventeen times the gum from the
          > floor using turpentine and paper towels. The towels were tossed
          > outside on what New Mexicans call a lawn to oxidize. Later, I
          > gathered up the towels in a cardboard box and tossed it in the
          > ledgendary 1965 Ford half-ton, V-8, three-speed and drove it to my
          > house where I switched over to the Dodge Dakota, the first vehicle
          > which I ever bought new, only to have it, just a day or two after I
          > had decided that I could take good enough care of it so that I would
          > last the rest of my construction career, stolen. Apparently the wind
          > of the ride in back of the Ford had oxidized the towels enough and
          > there were enough of them to act as insulation so that the core
          > overheated and burst into flames only to be noticed by chance by
          > Maria from the Mesa Vista High School where she taught High School
          > English thereby prompting her to come home, get the hose and put out
          > the fire on a truck that she hated with a passion, even though it
          > had earlier played a key role in the construction of the mud floors
          > treated with linseed oil in our house which she loves,after most of
          > the trash in the back of the truck had been burned along with half
          > of the interior and exterior paint on the bed of the truck demarked
          > by a nice diagonal line from the top of the back to the bottom of
          > the front of the bed just barely saving the cab. The tragedy is that
          > when I got home that Wednesday night, I was too tired to go to the
          > Ojo Caliente Volunteer Fire Department meeting which no doubt would
          > err on the side of too much talk and too little practice in pulling
          > out the hoses, starting the pumps and squirting water at a practice
          > fire, only to find out later that indeed it was all talk but that
          > the subject and movie of the evening was on the evils of spontaneous
          > combustion. Just think, I could have arrived in the truck
          > spontaneously combusted just that day! Sad, huh?
          >
          > Later, just for fun, I got in the habit of soaking sponges in
          > linseed oil and tossing them on the ground on breezy days to amaze
          > friends, workers and enemies. If they don't burst into flames, they char.
          >
          > Linseed oil does not outgas. It ingases. It does not dry, it
          > oxidizes to a less liquid form. Letting linseed oil sit out in the
          > open is to allow it to take up oxygen and begin the oxidation
          > process toward the gummy equivalent of tepifaction. Artists have
          > used it for years and are familiar with the concept that any puddle
          > turns to gum. Somehow the magic is that when linseed oil penetrates
          > a surface the molecules wander around the other material and the
          > result is a serendipitous matrix wherein the whole exceeds the sum
          > of the parts. Call it synergy and the concept can be sold to the
          > most heartless of the dainty chemical avoiders.
          >
          > I love the smell of linseed oil. If someone does not love it then it
          > should be avoided even though once cured fully, there is no trace of
          > smell that I can detect.
          >
          > Laquer and Laquer Thinner should be used indoors only with a ANSI
          > rated type 1A gas impermeable twin carbon filter or really bad
          > things or merely death results.
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          ------- End of Original Message -------
        • first snow
          no problem, assuming they are the right size, not too big, not too small. charles del rito ... From: To: Sent:
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 7, 2004
          • 0 Attachment
            no problem, assuming they are the right size, not too big, not too small.
            charles del rito
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <jmak2415@...>
            To: <adobe@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 7:05 AM
            Subject: Re: [adobe] Re: floors final story


            > Has anyone ever seen cement lentils?(not sure on the spelling)
            > There is a house I'm looking at and it has them what would you say about
            > them? Monique
            >
            > ---------- Original Message -----------
            > From: Quentin Wilson <qwilson@...>
            > To: adobe@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:17:52 -0600
            > Subject: Re: [adobe] Re: floors final story
            >
            > > Linseed oil gives a mud floor a leathery texture and makes it
            > > darker. It does make the floor considerably more resistant to
            > > scuffing from shoes and furniture.
            > >
            > > Mud floors have been done for milennia without linseed oil.
            > >
            > > Linseed oil is the classic oil that spontaneously combusts. The
            > > saddest story of my life was that I gummed the floor on the studio
            > > of the late Maxine Fine in Vallecitos. I had to get down on my hands
            > > and knees and wipe, wipe, wipe seventeen times the gum from the
            > > floor using turpentine and paper towels. The towels were tossed
            > > outside on what New Mexicans call a lawn to oxidize. Later, I
            > > gathered up the towels in a cardboard box and tossed it in the
            > > ledgendary 1965 Ford half-ton, V-8, three-speed and drove it to my
            > > house where I switched over to the Dodge Dakota, the first vehicle
            > > which I ever bought new, only to have it, just a day or two after I
            > > had decided that I could take good enough care of it so that I would
            > > last the rest of my construction career, stolen. Apparently the wind
            > > of the ride in back of the Ford had oxidized the towels enough and
            > > there were enough of them to act as insulation so that the core
            > > overheated and burst into flames only to be noticed by chance by
            > > Maria from the Mesa Vista High School where she taught High School
            > > English thereby prompting her to come home, get the hose and put out
            > > the fire on a truck that she hated with a passion, even though it
            > > had earlier played a key role in the construction of the mud floors
            > > treated with linseed oil in our house which she loves,after most of
            > > the trash in the back of the truck had been burned along with half
            > > of the interior and exterior paint on the bed of the truck demarked
            > > by a nice diagonal line from the top of the back to the bottom of
            > > the front of the bed just barely saving the cab. The tragedy is that
            > > when I got home that Wednesday night, I was too tired to go to the
            > > Ojo Caliente Volunteer Fire Department meeting which no doubt would
            > > err on the side of too much talk and too little practice in pulling
            > > out the hoses, starting the pumps and squirting water at a practice
            > > fire, only to find out later that indeed it was all talk but that
            > > the subject and movie of the evening was on the evils of spontaneous
            > > combustion. Just think, I could have arrived in the truck
            > > spontaneously combusted just that day! Sad, huh?
            > >
            > > Later, just for fun, I got in the habit of soaking sponges in
            > > linseed oil and tossing them on the ground on breezy days to amaze
            > > friends, workers and enemies. If they don't burst into flames, they
            char.
            > >
            > > Linseed oil does not outgas. It ingases. It does not dry, it
            > > oxidizes to a less liquid form. Letting linseed oil sit out in the
            > > open is to allow it to take up oxygen and begin the oxidation
            > > process toward the gummy equivalent of tepifaction. Artists have
            > > used it for years and are familiar with the concept that any puddle
            > > turns to gum. Somehow the magic is that when linseed oil penetrates
            > > a surface the molecules wander around the other material and the
            > > result is a serendipitous matrix wherein the whole exceeds the sum
            > > of the parts. Call it synergy and the concept can be sold to the
            > > most heartless of the dainty chemical avoiders.
            > >
            > > I love the smell of linseed oil. If someone does not love it then it
            > > should be avoided even though once cured fully, there is no trace of
            > > smell that I can detect.
            > >
            > > Laquer and Laquer Thinner should be used indoors only with a ANSI
            > > rated type 1A gas impermeable twin carbon filter or really bad
            > > things or merely death results.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > ------- End of Original Message -------
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • simone swan
            lentils are a bean. you mean lintels. texans pronounce lentils lintels and vice versa. ... From: first snow Sent: Sep 7, 2004 9:32 PM To:
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 8, 2004
            • 0 Attachment
              lentils are a bean. you mean lintels. texans pronounce lentils lintels and vice versa.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: first snow <cdkni@...>
              Sent: Sep 7, 2004 9:32 PM
              To: adobe@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [adobe] Re: floors final story

              no problem, assuming they are the right size, not too big, not too small.
              charles del rito
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: <jmak2415@...>
              To: <adobe@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 7:05 AM
              Subject: Re: [adobe] Re: floors final story


              > Has anyone ever seen cement lentils?(not sure on the spelling)
              > There is a house I'm looking at and it has them what would you say about
              > them? Monique
              >
              > ---------- Original Message -----------
              > From: Quentin Wilson <qwilson@...>
              > To: adobe@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:17:52 -0600
              > Subject: Re: [adobe] Re: floors final story
              >
              > > Linseed oil gives a mud floor a leathery texture and makes it
              > > darker. It does make the floor considerably more resistant to
              > > scuffing from shoes and furniture.
              > >
              > > Mud floors have been done for milennia without linseed oil.
              > >
              > > Linseed oil is the classic oil that spontaneously combusts. The
              > > saddest story of my life was that I gummed the floor on the studio
              > > of the late Maxine Fine in Vallecitos. I had to get down on my hands
              > > and knees and wipe, wipe, wipe seventeen times the gum from the
              > > floor using turpentine and paper towels. The towels were tossed
              > > outside on what New Mexicans call a lawn to oxidize. Later, I
              > > gathered up the towels in a cardboard box and tossed it in the
              > > ledgendary 1965 Ford half-ton, V-8, three-speed and drove it to my
              > > house where I switched over to the Dodge Dakota, the first vehicle
              > > which I ever bought new, only to have it, just a day or two after I
              > > had decided that I could take good enough care of it so that I would
              > > last the rest of my construction career, stolen. Apparently the wind
              > > of the ride in back of the Ford had oxidized the towels enough and
              > > there were enough of them to act as insulation so that the core
              > > overheated and burst into flames only to be noticed by chance by
              > > Maria from the Mesa Vista High School where she taught High School
              > > English thereby prompting her to come home, get the hose and put out
              > > the fire on a truck that she hated with a passion, even though it
              > > had earlier played a key role in the construction of the mud floors
              > > treated with linseed oil in our house which she loves,after most of
              > > the trash in the back of the truck had been burned along with half
              > > of the interior and exterior paint on the bed of the truck demarked
              > > by a nice diagonal line from the top of the back to the bottom of
              > > the front of the bed just barely saving the cab. The tragedy is that
              > > when I got home that Wednesday night, I was too tired to go to the
              > > Ojo Caliente Volunteer Fire Department meeting which no doubt would
              > > err on the side of too much talk and too little practice in pulling
              > > out the hoses, starting the pumps and squirting water at a practice
              > > fire, only to find out later that indeed it was all talk but that
              > > the subject and movie of the evening was on the evils of spontaneous
              > > combustion. Just think, I could have arrived in the truck
              > > spontaneously combusted just that day! Sad, huh?
              > >
              > > Later, just for fun, I got in the habit of soaking sponges in
              > > linseed oil and tossing them on the ground on breezy days to amaze
              > > friends, workers and enemies. If they don't burst into flames, they
              char.
              > >
              > > Linseed oil does not outgas. It ingases. It does not dry, it
              > > oxidizes to a less liquid form. Letting linseed oil sit out in the
              > > open is to allow it to take up oxygen and begin the oxidation
              > > process toward the gummy equivalent of tepifaction. Artists have
              > > used it for years and are familiar with the concept that any puddle
              > > turns to gum. Somehow the magic is that when linseed oil penetrates
              > > a surface the molecules wander around the other material and the
              > > result is a serendipitous matrix wherein the whole exceeds the sum
              > > of the parts. Call it synergy and the concept can be sold to the
              > > most heartless of the dainty chemical avoiders.
              > >
              > > I love the smell of linseed oil. If someone does not love it then it
              > > should be avoided even though once cured fully, there is no trace of
              > > smell that I can detect.
              > >
              > > Laquer and Laquer Thinner should be used indoors only with a ANSI
              > > rated type 1A gas impermeable twin carbon filter or really bad
              > > things or merely death results.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > ------- End of Original Message -------
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >





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