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Re: [SPAM][adamsmotor] Adams motor question

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  • Russel Prier
    Hi Mark, You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you seen Robert adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically what was posted
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 26, 2008
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      Hi Mark,

      You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you seen Robert
      adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically what was
      posted about recently.
      It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery coils which
      when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can deliver very
      useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to expand to do
      that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery coils at 44.7
      degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45 degrees but Robert
      did not find this to be the best position. He used the golden ratio
      which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the drive coils
      and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had things. The
      old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled when I saw
      them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was between the coil
      sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be trying to
      duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get some time to
      work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and getting more
      speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do that to.
      Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using only 2
      coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
      simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed to get that to
      work myself even though I have seen the machines that he did it with. I
      have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how they worked
      but they are quite simple machines.

      markmoridi wrote:
      >
      > Hi all,
      >
      > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section). I can't claim
      > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but I've seen
      > something I can't account for.
      >
      > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
      >
      > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal only the
      > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest of rpm change,
      > also when I short out the generators, I get the same result.
      > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the LEDs, I don't
      > get half the rpm increase.
      >
      > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in parallel since I
      > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost it to 120 and
      > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what happens.
      >
      > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder connected to a
      > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and lead/lag of
      > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6 Amps.
      >
      > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%. I've gone as
      > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not worth the
      > power cost.
      >
      > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no expectation of
      > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these pulse motors.
      >
      > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
      > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
      >
      > Thanks.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Mark
      >
      >
    • markmoridi
      Hi Russel, Thanks for the reply. Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that s my opinion based on my own experimental observations. We tend to
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 26, 2008
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        Hi Russel,

        Thanks for the reply.

        Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that's my opinion
        based on my own experimental observations.
        We tend to believe what we read as fact but the fact is people are
        complicated and often lie for no apparent reason, only for
        psychological and ego reasons.
        If this poster is reading this, I ask for a simple picture of the
        unit for others to see his/her wonderful work and admire it. Nothing
        more.

        I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary that my EE background
        couldn't account for, except what I posted.
        Many people confuse the recoil effect with back EMF. To set the
        record straight, back emf or counter emf (cemf) is the power induced
        in the coil that is the opposite in polarity (opposes) the emf
        (battery) voltage. This voltage is proportional to the speed of the
        rotor and the reason motors don't speedup to infinite RPMs.
        The speed stops increasing as soon as the emf voltage equals the cemf
        produced by the motor (the curved voltage you see before pulsing the
        stator). Increase the voltage and the motor speed up until the cemf
        is once again equal to the emf.
        The recoil effect (or bucking) is the sharp surge of power that is
        produced as soon as the drive current to the coil stops. The power in
        this recoil in nothing special. I have studied it very carefully and
        it's always the same. Input power minus the copper and other losses.
        This recoil effect mesmerizes people not properly trained. It is well
        understood in EE and is the basis for switching power supplies.
        If the zero point energy, G-field or whatever one wants to call it,
        existed in the recoil, why do we even need a rotor or even magnets
        for that matter? Why not just pulse a cored coil and redirect the
        bucking and use it?
        There is nothing special there regardless of what Bedini and others
        say.
        The reason I decided to build an Adams motor and not a Bedini or
        Muller, etc., is they are too complex to analyse properly. There are
        transformation actions going on and it's easy to loose one's way.
        The thing I like about AM is that the generator and drive section are
        separate and can be scrutinized independently or as close to
        independently as possible.

        What I think is happening (and anyone can jump in) is that, the
        stator poles reverse themselves momentarily like Howard Johnson said
        in his statement that under some conditions, "North will attract
        North and repel south and south poles will attract south poles and
        repeal north poles".

        Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of unusual things in my
        motor which I am currently studying. One is what I mentioned in my
        last post, the other is that when I look at the scope shot of the
        voltage from the gen coils (not under load) I see the positive cycle
        as 28 volts peak but the negative cycle is only 20 volts peak.
        They should be the same but the magnet (mine is all north) is
        inducing more voltage in coming in to register as opposed to leaving
        register.

        I would like to find an explanation other than the mumbo jumbo stuff
        one finds on the web.
        Me thinks the magnets are the culprit. If there is any excess energy,
        it will have to come from the depletion of the electrons in the
        magnets. Sort of like rubbing electrons together.

        It's a well known fact that Atoms do decay, but it takes billions or
        even hundreds of billions of years of our time. A proof of that would
        be the existence of Uranium for example. If all mater on earth was
        created in stars elsewhere, why do we still have full fledged Uranium
        we can mine? Should that not have all been depleted billions of years
        ago having a half life of only thousands of years?
        Some other element decays to become Uranium and then lead and
        eventually everything in the periodic table will decay backwards to
        hydrogen and the whole thing (big bang) starts over again.
        I don't believe in ether either. It was proven not to exist back in
        the 60's when an experimental laser was pulsed to the moon and back
        and the return beam was analysed and found not to have shifted at
        all. If photons move in this medium like sound travels through air or
        waves travel through water, then there must have been a
        shift/deflection in the beam since no medium is completely
        homogeneous and stationary. Hence there would be ether wind that
        would affect the returned laser.

        That's my take on that and it keeps me sane.

        Too bad Robert Adams and Bill Muller took their experiences to grave
        with them instead of sharing them with humanity.

        Speaking of wind, this one has become a long-winded post.

        Regards,

        Mark


        --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com, Russel Prier <russelp@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Mark,
        >
        > You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you seen
        Robert
        > adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically what
        was
        > posted about recently.
        > It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery coils
        which
        > when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can deliver
        very
        > useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to expand to
        do
        > that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery coils at
        44.7
        > degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45 degrees but
        Robert
        > did not find this to be the best position. He used the golden
        ratio
        > which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the drive
        coils
        > and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had
        things. The
        > old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled when I
        saw
        > them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was between the
        coil
        > sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be trying to
        > duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get some time
        to
        > work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and getting
        more
        > speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do that
        to.
        > Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using only 2
        > coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
        > simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed to get
        that to
        > work myself even though I have seen the machines that he did it
        with. I
        > have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how they
        worked
        > but they are quite simple machines.
        >
        > markmoridi wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi all,
        > >
        > > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section). I can't
        claim
        > > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but I've
        seen
        > > something I can't account for.
        > >
        > > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
        > >
        > > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal only the
        > > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest of rpm
        change,
        > > also when I short out the generators, I get the same result.
        > > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the LEDs, I
        don't
        > > get half the rpm increase.
        > >
        > > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in parallel
        since I
        > > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost it to
        120 and
        > > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what happens.
        > >
        > > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder connected
        to a
        > > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and
        lead/lag of
        > > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6 Amps.
        > >
        > > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%. I've
        gone as
        > > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not worth the
        > > power cost.
        > >
        > > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no
        expectation of
        > > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these pulse
        motors.
        > >
        > > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
        > > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
        > >
        > > Thanks.
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > >
        > > Mark
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Russel Prier
        Hi Mark, What you have built is half an early Adams motor. What Maimariati built was the whole of the early Adams motor design so without the other coils you
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 26, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Mark,

          What you have built is half an early Adams motor. What Maimariati built
          was the whole of the early Adams motor design so without the other coils
          you cannot pronounce a judgement on what is happening until you have
          proved it. In the Bedini groups I have been in we had a number of EEs
          who all started like you and took months to get to look with an open
          mind at what was happening but when they got it became the most
          enthusiastic of our members. The extra energy that does turn up in
          these machines is gated through the magnets not sourced from the magnets
          but just gated by them. We live in a sea of energy an atom is not a
          perpetual motion machine but recieves a constant input of energy from an
          outside source as does all matter in the universe. In fact all matter is
          just energy, take away the energy and you have no matter. Are you
          familar with Tom Beardons work in this area?
          If you think M's results are BS they are nothing compred to the later
          generation of machine the RA built before he died. The energy you are
          looking at is AC or DC but what we get is not AC or DC but like Static
          and RF energy which is converted in a capacitor to give dc like energy.
          It cannot be read on meters as RA commented many times, but will
          perform work which can be measured calorifically ie. in the time it
          takes to heat a certain amount of water to a certain remperature and is
          not an allusion but real energy that wont even appear on conventional
          meters which are based on ohms law which does not apply to this sort of
          energy. Negative energy is the opposite of positive and all the rules
          are different. We are not talking about plus and minus valtage but an
          opposite type of electrical energy they have never taught in learning
          institutions. If you insist on sticking to what you were taught in Uni
          you will never ever get it as you have to look beyond that limited
          stuff. Tesla well understood this energy but the educational
          institutions were not allowed to teach it from the early part of last
          century because Rockerfella and J P morgan knew there was no future for
          there oil empires if this stuff got out there and rockerfella got
          control of the educational institutions very early on. You can see that
          if you look at the biased way medical science has gone or electrical
          science has missed so much of what was known and subsequentially lost by
          being riddiculed marginalised etc. Johnson could measure when he pulsed
          magnets in a certain way that they delivered pulses 200 times greater
          than there base strength and belived they could deliver pulses a 1000
          times greater and RA had proved the same thing himself. We have filing
          cabinets full of his papers and experimental work and much of it is at
          odds with conventional EE teaching but does not mean it is wrong but
          that the current state of knowledge is incomplete and I would never be
          arrogant enough to say that we know it all already because we are all
          still learning.

          markmoridi wrote:
          >
          > Hi Russel,
          >
          > Thanks for the reply.
          >
          > Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that's my opinion
          > based on my own experimental observations.
          > We tend to believe what we read as fact but the fact is people are
          > complicated and often lie for no apparent reason, only for
          > psychological and ego reasons.
          > If this poster is reading this, I ask for a simple picture of the
          > unit for others to see his/her wonderful work and admire it. Nothing
          > more.
          >
          > I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary that my EE background
          > couldn't account for, except what I posted.
          > Many people confuse the recoil effect with back EMF. To set the
          > record straight, back emf or counter emf (cemf) is the power induced
          > in the coil that is the opposite in polarity (opposes) the emf
          > (battery) voltage. This voltage is proportional to the speed of the
          > rotor and the reason motors don't speedup to infinite RPMs.
          > The speed stops increasing as soon as the emf voltage equals the cemf
          > produced by the motor (the curved voltage you see before pulsing the
          > stator). Increase the voltage and the motor speed up until the cemf
          > is once again equal to the emf.
          > The recoil effect (or bucking) is the sharp surge of power that is
          > produced as soon as the drive current to the coil stops. The power in
          > this recoil in nothing special. I have studied it very carefully and
          > it's always the same. Input power minus the copper and other losses.
          > This recoil effect mesmerizes people not properly trained. It is well
          > understood in EE and is the basis for switching power supplies.
          > If the zero point energy, G-field or whatever one wants to call it,
          > existed in the recoil, why do we even need a rotor or even magnets
          > for that matter? Why not just pulse a cored coil and redirect the
          > bucking and use it?
          > There is nothing special there regardless of what Bedini and others
          > say.
          > The reason I decided to build an Adams motor and not a Bedini or
          > Muller, etc., is they are too complex to analyse properly. There are
          > transformation actions going on and it's easy to loose one's way.
          > The thing I like about AM is that the generator and drive section are
          > separate and can be scrutinized independently or as close to
          > independently as possible.
          >
          > What I think is happening (and anyone can jump in) is that, the
          > stator poles reverse themselves momentarily like Howard Johnson said
          > in his statement that under some conditions, "North will attract
          > North and repel south and south poles will attract south poles and
          > repeal north poles".
          >
          > Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of unusual things in my
          > motor which I am currently studying. One is what I mentioned in my
          > last post, the other is that when I look at the scope shot of the
          > voltage from the gen coils (not under load) I see the positive cycle
          > as 28 volts peak but the negative cycle is only 20 volts peak.
          > They should be the same but the magnet (mine is all north) is
          > inducing more voltage in coming in to register as opposed to leaving
          > register.
          >
          > I would like to find an explanation other than the mumbo jumbo stuff
          > one finds on the web.
          > Me thinks the magnets are the culprit. If there is any excess energy,
          > it will have to come from the depletion of the electrons in the
          > magnets. Sort of like rubbing electrons together.
          >
          > It's a well known fact that Atoms do decay, but it takes billions or
          > even hundreds of billions of years of our time. A proof of that would
          > be the existence of Uranium for example. If all mater on earth was
          > created in stars elsewhere, why do we still have full fledged Uranium
          > we can mine? Should that not have all been depleted billions of years
          > ago having a half life of only thousands of years?
          > Some other element decays to become Uranium and then lead and
          > eventually everything in the periodic table will decay backwards to
          > hydrogen and the whole thing (big bang) starts over again.
          > I don't believe in ether either. It was proven not to exist back in
          > the 60's when an experimental laser was pulsed to the moon and back
          > and the return beam was analysed and found not to have shifted at
          > all. If photons move in this medium like sound travels through air or
          > waves travel through water, then there must have been a
          > shift/deflection in the beam since no medium is completely
          > homogeneous and stationary. Hence there would be ether wind that
          > would affect the returned laser.
          >
          > That's my take on that and it keeps me sane.
          >
          > Too bad Robert Adams and Bill Muller took their experiences to grave
          > with them instead of sharing them with humanity.
          >
          > Speaking of wind, this one has become a long-winded post.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Mark
          >
          > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>, Russel Prier <russelp@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Mark,
          > >
          > > You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you seen
          > Robert
          > > adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically what
          > was
          > > posted about recently.
          > > It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery coils
          > which
          > > when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can deliver
          > very
          > > useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to expand to
          > do
          > > that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery coils at
          > 44.7
          > > degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45 degrees but
          > Robert
          > > did not find this to be the best position. He used the golden
          > ratio
          > > which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the drive
          > coils
          > > and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had
          > things. The
          > > old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled when I
          > saw
          > > them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was between the
          > coil
          > > sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be trying to
          > > duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get some time
          > to
          > > work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and getting
          > more
          > > speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do that
          > to.
          > > Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using only 2
          > > coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
          > > simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed to get
          > that to
          > > work myself even though I have seen the machines that he did it
          > with. I
          > > have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how they
          > worked
          > > but they are quite simple machines.
          > >
          > > markmoridi wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hi all,
          > > >
          > > > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section). I can't
          > claim
          > > > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but I've
          > seen
          > > > something I can't account for.
          > > >
          > > > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
          > > >
          > > > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal only the
          > > > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest of rpm
          > change,
          > > > also when I short out the generators, I get the same result.
          > > > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the LEDs, I
          > don't
          > > > get half the rpm increase.
          > > >
          > > > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in parallel
          > since I
          > > > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost it to
          > 120 and
          > > > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what happens.
          > > >
          > > > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder connected
          > to a
          > > > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and
          > lead/lag of
          > > > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6 Amps.
          > > >
          > > > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%. I've
          > gone as
          > > > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not worth the
          > > > power cost.
          > > >
          > > > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no
          > expectation of
          > > > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these pulse
          > motors.
          > > >
          > > > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
          > > > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
          > > >
          > > > Thanks.
          > > >
          > > > Regards,
          > > >
          > > > Mark
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
        • markmoridi
          Hi Russel, I agree with most of what you say. I am not arrogant, just cautious and want proof and I am willing to do the work to get it. I need to see this
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 26, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Russel,

            I agree with most of what you say. I am not arrogant, just cautious
            and want proof and I am willing to do the work to get it. I need to
            see this "more energy out than in" for myself.
            As far as what you said about the atoms and energy, I am of the
            opinion that anything is possible. This universe could all be a dream
            of someone, or could be an atom in some one's poo too! This sort of
            philosophical pondering has no practical use to me and makes me
            crazy. So I try not to think about it. My father spent most of his
            life on philosophy and practicing medicine and told me in his last
            years that he ended up with more questions than answers. I want to
            find out once and for all if I can cheat mother nature or not. Period.

            I don't care if this new energy can not be seen by a scope or any
            meter, as long as it can manifest itself in some form that I can
            measure and use. Heat would be good enough for me. Electrical would
            be ideal.

            Anyways, I have built and installed 2 new generators today. The first
            ones where 30 AWG wire and gave me plenty of voltage but not enough
            current. These new ones are 22 gauge and I'll post pictures when I
            have all 4 installed.
            The speedup is even more noticeable now. Close to 100 RPMs difference
            between unloaded and dead shorted. My machine runs at 600 RPM at 38
            volts. If it was a 5-6" rotor, I suspect I would get around 2500-3000
            RPM. I can't wait to finish putting the gens in and take it up to
            120v.
            I will build 2 more gens tomorrow and hook them up and see what
            happens.

            Russel, would it not be logical that if I ganged these gens in series
            and tune up the machine to get the best power from the gens, that I
            could filter to DC using a full bridge and low ESR caps and feed
            this power back to the main battery banks? I am getting 24 volts with
            these 2 in series. 2 more should give me 48 volts total which would
            be plenty to recharge the main batteries.
            Would this not close the loop and self run if there is more output
            than input? would it be more complicated than this?

            I am using 3 NiMH banks each 12v/10Ah. In your opinion, would this
            sort of energy be able to charge these batteries or do I need to work
            with LA batteries?

            How would I know if I have more energy out than in if I can't measure
            it?
            Is thermally the only way?

            Thanks

            --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com, Russel Prier <russelp@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Mark,
            >
            > What you have built is half an early Adams motor. What Maimariati
            built
            > was the whole of the early Adams motor design so without the other
            coils
            > you cannot pronounce a judgement on what is happening until you
            have
            > proved it. In the Bedini groups I have been in we had a number of
            EEs
            > who all started like you and took months to get to look with an
            open
            > mind at what was happening but when they got it became the most
            > enthusiastic of our members. The extra energy that does turn up in
            > these machines is gated through the magnets not sourced from the
            magnets
            > but just gated by them. We live in a sea of energy an atom is not
            a
            > perpetual motion machine but recieves a constant input of energy
            from an
            > outside source as does all matter in the universe. In fact all
            matter is
            > just energy, take away the energy and you have no matter. Are
            you
            > familar with Tom Beardons work in this area?
            > If you think M's results are BS they are nothing compred to the
            later
            > generation of machine the RA built before he died. The energy you
            are
            > looking at is AC or DC but what we get is not AC or DC but like
            Static
            > and RF energy which is converted in a capacitor to give dc like
            energy.
            > It cannot be read on meters as RA commented many times, but will
            > perform work which can be measured calorifically ie. in the time
            it
            > takes to heat a certain amount of water to a certain remperature
            and is
            > not an allusion but real energy that wont even appear on
            conventional
            > meters which are based on ohms law which does not apply to this
            sort of
            > energy. Negative energy is the opposite of positive and all the
            rules
            > are different. We are not talking about plus and minus valtage but
            an
            > opposite type of electrical energy they have never taught in
            learning
            > institutions. If you insist on sticking to what you were taught in
            Uni
            > you will never ever get it as you have to look beyond that limited
            > stuff. Tesla well understood this energy but the educational
            > institutions were not allowed to teach it from the early part of
            last
            > century because Rockerfella and J P morgan knew there was no future
            for
            > there oil empires if this stuff got out there and rockerfella got
            > control of the educational institutions very early on. You can see
            that
            > if you look at the biased way medical science has gone or
            electrical
            > science has missed so much of what was known and subsequentially
            lost by
            > being riddiculed marginalised etc. Johnson could measure when he
            pulsed
            > magnets in a certain way that they delivered pulses 200 times
            greater
            > than there base strength and belived they could deliver pulses a
            1000
            > times greater and RA had proved the same thing himself. We have
            filing
            > cabinets full of his papers and experimental work and much of it is
            at
            > odds with conventional EE teaching but does not mean it is wrong
            but
            > that the current state of knowledge is incomplete and I would never
            be
            > arrogant enough to say that we know it all already because we are
            all
            > still learning.
            >
            > markmoridi wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Russel,
            > >
            > > Thanks for the reply.
            > >
            > > Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that's my
            opinion
            > > based on my own experimental observations.
            > > We tend to believe what we read as fact but the fact is people are
            > > complicated and often lie for no apparent reason, only for
            > > psychological and ego reasons.
            > > If this poster is reading this, I ask for a simple picture of the
            > > unit for others to see his/her wonderful work and admire it.
            Nothing
            > > more.
            > >
            > > I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary that my EE background
            > > couldn't account for, except what I posted.
            > > Many people confuse the recoil effect with back EMF. To set the
            > > record straight, back emf or counter emf (cemf) is the power
            induced
            > > in the coil that is the opposite in polarity (opposes) the emf
            > > (battery) voltage. This voltage is proportional to the speed of
            the
            > > rotor and the reason motors don't speedup to infinite RPMs.
            > > The speed stops increasing as soon as the emf voltage equals the
            cemf
            > > produced by the motor (the curved voltage you see before pulsing
            the
            > > stator). Increase the voltage and the motor speed up until the
            cemf
            > > is once again equal to the emf.
            > > The recoil effect (or bucking) is the sharp surge of power that is
            > > produced as soon as the drive current to the coil stops. The
            power in
            > > this recoil in nothing special. I have studied it very carefully
            and
            > > it's always the same. Input power minus the copper and other
            losses.
            > > This recoil effect mesmerizes people not properly trained. It is
            well
            > > understood in EE and is the basis for switching power supplies.
            > > If the zero point energy, G-field or whatever one wants to call
            it,
            > > existed in the recoil, why do we even need a rotor or even magnets
            > > for that matter? Why not just pulse a cored coil and redirect the
            > > bucking and use it?
            > > There is nothing special there regardless of what Bedini and
            others
            > > say.
            > > The reason I decided to build an Adams motor and not a Bedini or
            > > Muller, etc., is they are too complex to analyse properly. There
            are
            > > transformation actions going on and it's easy to loose one's way.
            > > The thing I like about AM is that the generator and drive section
            are
            > > separate and can be scrutinized independently or as close to
            > > independently as possible.
            > >
            > > What I think is happening (and anyone can jump in) is that, the
            > > stator poles reverse themselves momentarily like Howard Johnson
            said
            > > in his statement that under some conditions, "North will attract
            > > North and repel south and south poles will attract south poles and
            > > repeal north poles".
            > >
            > > Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of unusual things in my
            > > motor which I am currently studying. One is what I mentioned in my
            > > last post, the other is that when I look at the scope shot of the
            > > voltage from the gen coils (not under load) I see the positive
            cycle
            > > as 28 volts peak but the negative cycle is only 20 volts peak.
            > > They should be the same but the magnet (mine is all north) is
            > > inducing more voltage in coming in to register as opposed to
            leaving
            > > register.
            > >
            > > I would like to find an explanation other than the mumbo jumbo
            stuff
            > > one finds on the web.
            > > Me thinks the magnets are the culprit. If there is any excess
            energy,
            > > it will have to come from the depletion of the electrons in the
            > > magnets. Sort of like rubbing electrons together.
            > >
            > > It's a well known fact that Atoms do decay, but it takes billions
            or
            > > even hundreds of billions of years of our time. A proof of that
            would
            > > be the existence of Uranium for example. If all mater on earth was
            > > created in stars elsewhere, why do we still have full fledged
            Uranium
            > > we can mine? Should that not have all been depleted billions of
            years
            > > ago having a half life of only thousands of years?
            > > Some other element decays to become Uranium and then lead and
            > > eventually everything in the periodic table will decay backwards
            to
            > > hydrogen and the whole thing (big bang) starts over again.
            > > I don't believe in ether either. It was proven not to exist back
            in
            > > the 60's when an experimental laser was pulsed to the moon and
            back
            > > and the return beam was analysed and found not to have shifted at
            > > all. If photons move in this medium like sound travels through
            air or
            > > waves travel through water, then there must have been a
            > > shift/deflection in the beam since no medium is completely
            > > homogeneous and stationary. Hence there would be ether wind that
            > > would affect the returned laser.
            > >
            > > That's my take on that and it keeps me sane.
            > >
            > > Too bad Robert Adams and Bill Muller took their experiences to
            grave
            > > with them instead of sharing them with humanity.
            > >
            > > Speaking of wind, this one has become a long-winded post.
            > >
            > > Regards,
            > >
            > > Mark
            > >
            > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
            > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
            wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi Mark,
            > > >
            > > > You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you seen
            > > Robert
            > > > adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically what
            > > was
            > > > posted about recently.
            > > > It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery
            coils
            > > which
            > > > when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can deliver
            > > very
            > > > useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to expand
            to
            > > do
            > > > that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery coils
            at
            > > 44.7
            > > > degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45 degrees
            but
            > > Robert
            > > > did not find this to be the best position. He used the golden
            > > ratio
            > > > which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the drive
            > > coils
            > > > and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had
            > > things. The
            > > > old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled when
            I
            > > saw
            > > > them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was between
            the
            > > coil
            > > > sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be trying to
            > > > duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get some
            time
            > > to
            > > > work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and
            getting
            > > more
            > > > speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do
            that
            > > to.
            > > > Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using
            only 2
            > > > coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
            > > > simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed to get
            > > that to
            > > > work myself even though I have seen the machines that he did it
            > > with. I
            > > > have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how they
            > > worked
            > > > but they are quite simple machines.
            > > >
            > > > markmoridi wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hi all,
            > > > >
            > > > > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section). I
            can't
            > > claim
            > > > > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but I've
            > > seen
            > > > > something I can't account for.
            > > > >
            > > > > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
            > > > >
            > > > > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal
            only the
            > > > > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest of
            rpm
            > > change,
            > > > > also when I short out the generators, I get the same result.
            > > > > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the
            LEDs, I
            > > don't
            > > > > get half the rpm increase.
            > > > >
            > > > > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in
            parallel
            > > since I
            > > > > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost it to
            > > 120 and
            > > > > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what happens.
            > > > >
            > > > > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder
            connected
            > > to a
            > > > > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and
            > > lead/lag of
            > > > > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6
            Amps.
            > > > >
            > > > > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%. I've
            > > gone as
            > > > > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not
            worth the
            > > > > power cost.
            > > > >
            > > > > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no
            > > expectation of
            > > > > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these
            pulse
            > > motors.
            > > > >
            > > > > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
            > > > > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
            > > > >
            > > > > Thanks.
            > > > >
            > > > > Regards,
            > > > >
            > > > > Mark
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            >
          • Russel Prier
            Hi Mark, I cannot answer that question without doing it but connecting the coils in series to give lots of inductance usually helps so that you store a fair
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 26, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Mark,

              I cannot answer that question without doing it but connecting the coils
              in series to give lots of inductance usually helps so that you store a
              fair amount of charge in the coils before you breifly discharge them and
              time the discharging very carefully as M said so as to give a positive
              kick when that circuit is switched off. We have done similar things as
              this in the bedini group but not timed as well as you would get with a
              rotary encoder so as to be able to adjust and regulate things quite
              accurately and quickly using a plc or coupter of some sort. Yes you can
              charge caps and then discharge them so that you are charging or
              discharging but not doing both at the same time. As this power is
              slightly different fron your normal DC John Bedini has said it will
              probably work better if you put it through an inverter then rectify it
              into DC and use it but I dont know If RA did things this way. His
              machines self powered fine and poured out energy continuously without
              any input once they were running.
              There are some trick to be learned along the way and some of these have
              been lost unfortunately.

              markmoridi wrote:
              >
              > Hi Russel,
              >
              > I agree with most of what you say. I am not arrogant, just cautious
              > and want proof and I am willing to do the work to get it. I need to
              > see this "more energy out than in" for myself.
              > As far as what you said about the atoms and energy, I am of the
              > opinion that anything is possible. This universe could all be a dream
              > of someone, or could be an atom in some one's poo too! This sort of
              > philosophical pondering has no practical use to me and makes me
              > crazy. So I try not to think about it. My father spent most of his
              > life on philosophy and practicing medicine and told me in his last
              > years that he ended up with more questions than answers. I want to
              > find out once and for all if I can cheat mother nature or not. Period.
              >
              > I don't care if this new energy can not be seen by a scope or any
              > meter, as long as it can manifest itself in some form that I can
              > measure and use. Heat would be good enough for me. Electrical would
              > be ideal.
              >
              > Anyways, I have built and installed 2 new generators today. The first
              > ones where 30 AWG wire and gave me plenty of voltage but not enough
              > current. These new ones are 22 gauge and I'll post pictures when I
              > have all 4 installed.
              > The speedup is even more noticeable now. Close to 100 RPMs difference
              > between unloaded and dead shorted. My machine runs at 600 RPM at 38
              > volts. If it was a 5-6" rotor, I suspect I would get around 2500-3000
              > RPM. I can't wait to finish putting the gens in and take it up to
              > 120v.
              > I will build 2 more gens tomorrow and hook them up and see what
              > happens.
              >
              > Russel, would it not be logical that if I ganged these gens in series
              > and tune up the machine to get the best power from the gens, that I
              > could filter to DC using a full bridge and low ESR caps and feed
              > this power back to the main battery banks? I am getting 24 volts with
              > these 2 in series. 2 more should give me 48 volts total which would
              > be plenty to recharge the main batteries.
              > Would this not close the loop and self run if there is more output
              > than input? would it be more complicated than this?
              >
              > I am using 3 NiMH banks each 12v/10Ah. In your opinion, would this
              > sort of energy be able to charge these batteries or do I need to work
              > with LA batteries?
              >
              > How would I know if I have more energy out than in if I can't measure
              > it?
              > Is thermally the only way?
              >
              > Thanks
              >
              > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>, Russel Prier <russelp@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi Mark,
              > >
              > > What you have built is half an early Adams motor. What Maimariati
              > built
              > > was the whole of the early Adams motor design so without the other
              > coils
              > > you cannot pronounce a judgement on what is happening until you
              > have
              > > proved it. In the Bedini groups I have been in we had a number of
              > EEs
              > > who all started like you and took months to get to look with an
              > open
              > > mind at what was happening but when they got it became the most
              > > enthusiastic of our members. The extra energy that does turn up in
              > > these machines is gated through the magnets not sourced from the
              > magnets
              > > but just gated by them. We live in a sea of energy an atom is not
              > a
              > > perpetual motion machine but recieves a constant input of energy
              > from an
              > > outside source as does all matter in the universe. In fact all
              > matter is
              > > just energy, take away the energy and you have no matter. Are
              > you
              > > familar with Tom Beardons work in this area?
              > > If you think M's results are BS they are nothing compred to the
              > later
              > > generation of machine the RA built before he died. The energy you
              > are
              > > looking at is AC or DC but what we get is not AC or DC but like
              > Static
              > > and RF energy which is converted in a capacitor to give dc like
              > energy.
              > > It cannot be read on meters as RA commented many times, but will
              > > perform work which can be measured calorifically ie. in the time
              > it
              > > takes to heat a certain amount of water to a certain remperature
              > and is
              > > not an allusion but real energy that wont even appear on
              > conventional
              > > meters which are based on ohms law which does not apply to this
              > sort of
              > > energy. Negative energy is the opposite of positive and all the
              > rules
              > > are different. We are not talking about plus and minus valtage but
              > an
              > > opposite type of electrical energy they have never taught in
              > learning
              > > institutions. If you insist on sticking to what you were taught in
              > Uni
              > > you will never ever get it as you have to look beyond that limited
              > > stuff. Tesla well understood this energy but the educational
              > > institutions were not allowed to teach it from the early part of
              > last
              > > century because Rockerfella and J P morgan knew there was no future
              > for
              > > there oil empires if this stuff got out there and rockerfella got
              > > control of the educational institutions very early on. You can see
              > that
              > > if you look at the biased way medical science has gone or
              > electrical
              > > science has missed so much of what was known and subsequentially
              > lost by
              > > being riddiculed marginalised etc. Johnson could measure when he
              > pulsed
              > > magnets in a certain way that they delivered pulses 200 times
              > greater
              > > than there base strength and belived they could deliver pulses a
              > 1000
              > > times greater and RA had proved the same thing himself. We have
              > filing
              > > cabinets full of his papers and experimental work and much of it is
              > at
              > > odds with conventional EE teaching but does not mean it is wrong
              > but
              > > that the current state of knowledge is incomplete and I would never
              > be
              > > arrogant enough to say that we know it all already because we are
              > all
              > > still learning.
              > >
              > > markmoridi wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi Russel,
              > > >
              > > > Thanks for the reply.
              > > >
              > > > Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that's my
              > opinion
              > > > based on my own experimental observations.
              > > > We tend to believe what we read as fact but the fact is people are
              > > > complicated and often lie for no apparent reason, only for
              > > > psychological and ego reasons.
              > > > If this poster is reading this, I ask for a simple picture of the
              > > > unit for others to see his/her wonderful work and admire it.
              > Nothing
              > > > more.
              > > >
              > > > I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary that my EE background
              > > > couldn't account for, except what I posted.
              > > > Many people confuse the recoil effect with back EMF. To set the
              > > > record straight, back emf or counter emf (cemf) is the power
              > induced
              > > > in the coil that is the opposite in polarity (opposes) the emf
              > > > (battery) voltage. This voltage is proportional to the speed of
              > the
              > > > rotor and the reason motors don't speedup to infinite RPMs.
              > > > The speed stops increasing as soon as the emf voltage equals the
              > cemf
              > > > produced by the motor (the curved voltage you see before pulsing
              > the
              > > > stator). Increase the voltage and the motor speed up until the
              > cemf
              > > > is once again equal to the emf.
              > > > The recoil effect (or bucking) is the sharp surge of power that is
              > > > produced as soon as the drive current to the coil stops. The
              > power in
              > > > this recoil in nothing special. I have studied it very carefully
              > and
              > > > it's always the same. Input power minus the copper and other
              > losses.
              > > > This recoil effect mesmerizes people not properly trained. It is
              > well
              > > > understood in EE and is the basis for switching power supplies.
              > > > If the zero point energy, G-field or whatever one wants to call
              > it,
              > > > existed in the recoil, why do we even need a rotor or even magnets
              > > > for that matter? Why not just pulse a cored coil and redirect the
              > > > bucking and use it?
              > > > There is nothing special there regardless of what Bedini and
              > others
              > > > say.
              > > > The reason I decided to build an Adams motor and not a Bedini or
              > > > Muller, etc., is they are too complex to analyse properly. There
              > are
              > > > transformation actions going on and it's easy to loose one's way.
              > > > The thing I like about AM is that the generator and drive section
              > are
              > > > separate and can be scrutinized independently or as close to
              > > > independently as possible.
              > > >
              > > > What I think is happening (and anyone can jump in) is that, the
              > > > stator poles reverse themselves momentarily like Howard Johnson
              > said
              > > > in his statement that under some conditions, "North will attract
              > > > North and repel south and south poles will attract south poles and
              > > > repeal north poles".
              > > >
              > > > Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of unusual things in my
              > > > motor which I am currently studying. One is what I mentioned in my
              > > > last post, the other is that when I look at the scope shot of the
              > > > voltage from the gen coils (not under load) I see the positive
              > cycle
              > > > as 28 volts peak but the negative cycle is only 20 volts peak.
              > > > They should be the same but the magnet (mine is all north) is
              > > > inducing more voltage in coming in to register as opposed to
              > leaving
              > > > register.
              > > >
              > > > I would like to find an explanation other than the mumbo jumbo
              > stuff
              > > > one finds on the web.
              > > > Me thinks the magnets are the culprit. If there is any excess
              > energy,
              > > > it will have to come from the depletion of the electrons in the
              > > > magnets. Sort of like rubbing electrons together.
              > > >
              > > > It's a well known fact that Atoms do decay, but it takes billions
              > or
              > > > even hundreds of billions of years of our time. A proof of that
              > would
              > > > be the existence of Uranium for example. If all mater on earth was
              > > > created in stars elsewhere, why do we still have full fledged
              > Uranium
              > > > we can mine? Should that not have all been depleted billions of
              > years
              > > > ago having a half life of only thousands of years?
              > > > Some other element decays to become Uranium and then lead and
              > > > eventually everything in the periodic table will decay backwards
              > to
              > > > hydrogen and the whole thing (big bang) starts over again.
              > > > I don't believe in ether either. It was proven not to exist back
              > in
              > > > the 60's when an experimental laser was pulsed to the moon and
              > back
              > > > and the return beam was analysed and found not to have shifted at
              > > > all. If photons move in this medium like sound travels through
              > air or
              > > > waves travel through water, then there must have been a
              > > > shift/deflection in the beam since no medium is completely
              > > > homogeneous and stationary. Hence there would be ether wind that
              > > > would affect the returned laser.
              > > >
              > > > That's my take on that and it keeps me sane.
              > > >
              > > > Too bad Robert Adams and Bill Muller took their experiences to
              > grave
              > > > with them instead of sharing them with humanity.
              > > >
              > > > Speaking of wind, this one has become a long-winded post.
              > > >
              > > > Regards,
              > > >
              > > > Mark
              > > >
              > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
              > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
              > > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
              > wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi Mark,
              > > > >
              > > > > You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you seen
              > > > Robert
              > > > > adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically what
              > > > was
              > > > > posted about recently.
              > > > > It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery
              > coils
              > > > which
              > > > > when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can deliver
              > > > very
              > > > > useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to expand
              > to
              > > > do
              > > > > that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery coils
              > at
              > > > 44.7
              > > > > degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45 degrees
              > but
              > > > Robert
              > > > > did not find this to be the best position. He used the golden
              > > > ratio
              > > > > which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the drive
              > > > coils
              > > > > and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had
              > > > things. The
              > > > > old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled when
              > I
              > > > saw
              > > > > them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was between
              > the
              > > > coil
              > > > > sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be trying to
              > > > > duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get some
              > time
              > > > to
              > > > > work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and
              > getting
              > > > more
              > > > > speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do
              > that
              > > > to.
              > > > > Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using
              > only 2
              > > > > coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
              > > > > simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed to get
              > > > that to
              > > > > work myself even though I have seen the machines that he did it
              > > > with. I
              > > > > have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how they
              > > > worked
              > > > > but they are quite simple machines.
              > > > >
              > > > > markmoridi wrote:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Hi all,
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section). I
              > can't
              > > > claim
              > > > > > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but I've
              > > > seen
              > > > > > something I can't account for.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal
              > only the
              > > > > > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest of
              > rpm
              > > > change,
              > > > > > also when I short out the generators, I get the same result.
              > > > > > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the
              > LEDs, I
              > > > don't
              > > > > > get half the rpm increase.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in
              > parallel
              > > > since I
              > > > > > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost it to
              > > > 120 and
              > > > > > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what happens.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder
              > connected
              > > > to a
              > > > > > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and
              > > > lead/lag of
              > > > > > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6
              > Amps.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%. I've
              > > > gone as
              > > > > > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not
              > worth the
              > > > > > power cost.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no
              > > > expectation of
              > > > > > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these
              > pulse
              > > > motors.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
              > > > > > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Thanks.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Regards,
              > > > > >
              > > > > > Mark
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
            • markmoridi
              Hi Russel, Thanks for the tips. What is an inverter? surely you don t mean and dc/ac inverter! Thanks, Mark ... coils ... store a ... them and ... positive ...
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 27, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Russel,
                Thanks for the tips.
                What is an inverter? surely you don't mean and dc/ac inverter!

                Thanks,

                Mark

                --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com, Russel Prier <russelp@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Mark,
                >
                > I cannot answer that question without doing it but connecting the
                coils
                > in series to give lots of inductance usually helps so that you
                store a
                > fair amount of charge in the coils before you breifly discharge
                them and
                > time the discharging very carefully as M said so as to give a
                positive
                > kick when that circuit is switched off. We have done similar
                things as
                > this in the bedini group but not timed as well as you would get
                with a
                > rotary encoder so as to be able to adjust and regulate things quite
                > accurately and quickly using a plc or coupter of some sort. Yes
                you can
                > charge caps and then discharge them so that you are charging or
                > discharging but not doing both at the same time. As this power is
                > slightly different fron your normal DC John Bedini has said it will
                > probably work better if you put it through an inverter then rectify
                it
                > into DC and use it but I dont know If RA did things this way. His
                > machines self powered fine and poured out energy continuously
                without
                > any input once they were running.
                > There are some trick to be learned along the way and some of these
                have
                > been lost unfortunately.
                >
                > markmoridi wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Russel,
                > >
                > > I agree with most of what you say. I am not arrogant, just
                cautious
                > > and want proof and I am willing to do the work to get it. I need
                to
                > > see this "more energy out than in" for myself.
                > > As far as what you said about the atoms and energy, I am of the
                > > opinion that anything is possible. This universe could all be a
                dream
                > > of someone, or could be an atom in some one's poo too! This sort
                of
                > > philosophical pondering has no practical use to me and makes me
                > > crazy. So I try not to think about it. My father spent most of his
                > > life on philosophy and practicing medicine and told me in his last
                > > years that he ended up with more questions than answers. I want to
                > > find out once and for all if I can cheat mother nature or not.
                Period.
                > >
                > > I don't care if this new energy can not be seen by a scope or any
                > > meter, as long as it can manifest itself in some form that I can
                > > measure and use. Heat would be good enough for me. Electrical
                would
                > > be ideal.
                > >
                > > Anyways, I have built and installed 2 new generators today. The
                first
                > > ones where 30 AWG wire and gave me plenty of voltage but not
                enough
                > > current. These new ones are 22 gauge and I'll post pictures when I
                > > have all 4 installed.
                > > The speedup is even more noticeable now. Close to 100 RPMs
                difference
                > > between unloaded and dead shorted. My machine runs at 600 RPM at
                38
                > > volts. If it was a 5-6" rotor, I suspect I would get around 2500-
                3000
                > > RPM. I can't wait to finish putting the gens in and take it up to
                > > 120v.
                > > I will build 2 more gens tomorrow and hook them up and see what
                > > happens.
                > >
                > > Russel, would it not be logical that if I ganged these gens in
                series
                > > and tune up the machine to get the best power from the gens, that
                I
                > > could filter to DC using a full bridge and low ESR caps and feed
                > > this power back to the main battery banks? I am getting 24 volts
                with
                > > these 2 in series. 2 more should give me 48 volts total which
                would
                > > be plenty to recharge the main batteries.
                > > Would this not close the loop and self run if there is more output
                > > than input? would it be more complicated than this?
                > >
                > > I am using 3 NiMH banks each 12v/10Ah. In your opinion, would this
                > > sort of energy be able to charge these batteries or do I need to
                work
                > > with LA batteries?
                > >
                > > How would I know if I have more energy out than in if I can't
                measure
                > > it?
                > > Is thermally the only way?
                > >
                > > Thanks
                > >
                > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Mark,
                > > >
                > > > What you have built is half an early Adams motor. What
                Maimariati
                > > built
                > > > was the whole of the early Adams motor design so without the
                other
                > > coils
                > > > you cannot pronounce a judgement on what is happening until you
                > > have
                > > > proved it. In the Bedini groups I have been in we had a number
                of
                > > EEs
                > > > who all started like you and took months to get to look with an
                > > open
                > > > mind at what was happening but when they got it became the most
                > > > enthusiastic of our members. The extra energy that does turn up
                in
                > > > these machines is gated through the magnets not sourced from the
                > > magnets
                > > > but just gated by them. We live in a sea of energy an atom is
                not
                > > a
                > > > perpetual motion machine but recieves a constant input of energy
                > > from an
                > > > outside source as does all matter in the universe. In fact all
                > > matter is
                > > > just energy, take away the energy and you have no matter. Are
                > > you
                > > > familar with Tom Beardons work in this area?
                > > > If you think M's results are BS they are nothing compred to the
                > > later
                > > > generation of machine the RA built before he died. The energy
                you
                > > are
                > > > looking at is AC or DC but what we get is not AC or DC but like
                > > Static
                > > > and RF energy which is converted in a capacitor to give dc like
                > > energy.
                > > > It cannot be read on meters as RA commented many times, but will
                > > > perform work which can be measured calorifically ie. in the time
                > > it
                > > > takes to heat a certain amount of water to a certain remperature
                > > and is
                > > > not an allusion but real energy that wont even appear on
                > > conventional
                > > > meters which are based on ohms law which does not apply to this
                > > sort of
                > > > energy. Negative energy is the opposite of positive and all the
                > > rules
                > > > are different. We are not talking about plus and minus valtage
                but
                > > an
                > > > opposite type of electrical energy they have never taught in
                > > learning
                > > > institutions. If you insist on sticking to what you were taught
                in
                > > Uni
                > > > you will never ever get it as you have to look beyond that
                limited
                > > > stuff. Tesla well understood this energy but the educational
                > > > institutions were not allowed to teach it from the early part of
                > > last
                > > > century because Rockerfella and J P morgan knew there was no
                future
                > > for
                > > > there oil empires if this stuff got out there and rockerfella
                got
                > > > control of the educational institutions very early on. You can
                see
                > > that
                > > > if you look at the biased way medical science has gone or
                > > electrical
                > > > science has missed so much of what was known and subsequentially
                > > lost by
                > > > being riddiculed marginalised etc. Johnson could measure when he
                > > pulsed
                > > > magnets in a certain way that they delivered pulses 200 times
                > > greater
                > > > than there base strength and belived they could deliver pulses a
                > > 1000
                > > > times greater and RA had proved the same thing himself. We have
                > > filing
                > > > cabinets full of his papers and experimental work and much of
                it is
                > > at
                > > > odds with conventional EE teaching but does not mean it is wrong
                > > but
                > > > that the current state of knowledge is incomplete and I would
                never
                > > be
                > > > arrogant enough to say that we know it all already because we
                are
                > > all
                > > > still learning.
                > > >
                > > > markmoridi wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hi Russel,
                > > > >
                > > > > Thanks for the reply.
                > > > >
                > > > > Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that's my
                > > opinion
                > > > > based on my own experimental observations.
                > > > > We tend to believe what we read as fact but the fact is
                people are
                > > > > complicated and often lie for no apparent reason, only for
                > > > > psychological and ego reasons.
                > > > > If this poster is reading this, I ask for a simple picture of
                the
                > > > > unit for others to see his/her wonderful work and admire it.
                > > Nothing
                > > > > more.
                > > > >
                > > > > I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary that my EE
                background
                > > > > couldn't account for, except what I posted.
                > > > > Many people confuse the recoil effect with back EMF. To set
                the
                > > > > record straight, back emf or counter emf (cemf) is the power
                > > induced
                > > > > in the coil that is the opposite in polarity (opposes) the emf
                > > > > (battery) voltage. This voltage is proportional to the speed
                of
                > > the
                > > > > rotor and the reason motors don't speedup to infinite RPMs.
                > > > > The speed stops increasing as soon as the emf voltage equals
                the
                > > cemf
                > > > > produced by the motor (the curved voltage you see before
                pulsing
                > > the
                > > > > stator). Increase the voltage and the motor speed up until the
                > > cemf
                > > > > is once again equal to the emf.
                > > > > The recoil effect (or bucking) is the sharp surge of power
                that is
                > > > > produced as soon as the drive current to the coil stops. The
                > > power in
                > > > > this recoil in nothing special. I have studied it very
                carefully
                > > and
                > > > > it's always the same. Input power minus the copper and other
                > > losses.
                > > > > This recoil effect mesmerizes people not properly trained. It
                is
                > > well
                > > > > understood in EE and is the basis for switching power
                supplies.
                > > > > If the zero point energy, G-field or whatever one wants to
                call
                > > it,
                > > > > existed in the recoil, why do we even need a rotor or even
                magnets
                > > > > for that matter? Why not just pulse a cored coil and redirect
                the
                > > > > bucking and use it?
                > > > > There is nothing special there regardless of what Bedini and
                > > others
                > > > > say.
                > > > > The reason I decided to build an Adams motor and not a Bedini
                or
                > > > > Muller, etc., is they are too complex to analyse properly.
                There
                > > are
                > > > > transformation actions going on and it's easy to loose one's
                way.
                > > > > The thing I like about AM is that the generator and drive
                section
                > > are
                > > > > separate and can be scrutinized independently or as close to
                > > > > independently as possible.
                > > > >
                > > > > What I think is happening (and anyone can jump in) is that,
                the
                > > > > stator poles reverse themselves momentarily like Howard
                Johnson
                > > said
                > > > > in his statement that under some conditions, "North will
                attract
                > > > > North and repel south and south poles will attract south
                poles and
                > > > > repeal north poles".
                > > > >
                > > > > Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of unusual things in
                my
                > > > > motor which I am currently studying. One is what I mentioned
                in my
                > > > > last post, the other is that when I look at the scope shot of
                the
                > > > > voltage from the gen coils (not under load) I see the positive
                > > cycle
                > > > > as 28 volts peak but the negative cycle is only 20 volts peak.
                > > > > They should be the same but the magnet (mine is all north) is
                > > > > inducing more voltage in coming in to register as opposed to
                > > leaving
                > > > > register.
                > > > >
                > > > > I would like to find an explanation other than the mumbo jumbo
                > > stuff
                > > > > one finds on the web.
                > > > > Me thinks the magnets are the culprit. If there is any excess
                > > energy,
                > > > > it will have to come from the depletion of the electrons in
                the
                > > > > magnets. Sort of like rubbing electrons together.
                > > > >
                > > > > It's a well known fact that Atoms do decay, but it takes
                billions
                > > or
                > > > > even hundreds of billions of years of our time. A proof of
                that
                > > would
                > > > > be the existence of Uranium for example. If all mater on
                earth was
                > > > > created in stars elsewhere, why do we still have full fledged
                > > Uranium
                > > > > we can mine? Should that not have all been depleted billions
                of
                > > years
                > > > > ago having a half life of only thousands of years?
                > > > > Some other element decays to become Uranium and then lead and
                > > > > eventually everything in the periodic table will decay
                backwards
                > > to
                > > > > hydrogen and the whole thing (big bang) starts over again.
                > > > > I don't believe in ether either. It was proven not to exist
                back
                > > in
                > > > > the 60's when an experimental laser was pulsed to the moon and
                > > back
                > > > > and the return beam was analysed and found not to have
                shifted at
                > > > > all. If photons move in this medium like sound travels through
                > > air or
                > > > > waves travel through water, then there must have been a
                > > > > shift/deflection in the beam since no medium is completely
                > > > > homogeneous and stationary. Hence there would be ether wind
                that
                > > > > would affect the returned laser.
                > > > >
                > > > > That's my take on that and it keeps me sane.
                > > > >
                > > > > Too bad Robert Adams and Bill Muller took their experiences to
                > > grave
                > > > > with them instead of sharing them with humanity.
                > > > >
                > > > > Speaking of wind, this one has become a long-winded post.
                > > > >
                > > > > Regards,
                > > > >
                > > > > Mark
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                > > wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Hi Mark,
                > > > > >
                > > > > > You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you
                seen
                > > > > Robert
                > > > > > adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically
                what
                > > > > was
                > > > > > posted about recently.
                > > > > > It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery
                > > coils
                > > > > which
                > > > > > when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can
                deliver
                > > > > very
                > > > > > useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to
                expand
                > > to
                > > > > do
                > > > > > that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery
                coils
                > > at
                > > > > 44.7
                > > > > > degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45
                degrees
                > > but
                > > > > Robert
                > > > > > did not find this to be the best position. He used the
                golden
                > > > > ratio
                > > > > > which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the
                drive
                > > > > coils
                > > > > > and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had
                > > > > things. The
                > > > > > old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled
                when
                > > I
                > > > > saw
                > > > > > them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was
                between
                > > the
                > > > > coil
                > > > > > sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be
                trying to
                > > > > > duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get
                some
                > > time
                > > > > to
                > > > > > work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and
                > > getting
                > > > > more
                > > > > > speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do
                > > that
                > > > > to.
                > > > > > Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using
                > > only 2
                > > > > > coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
                > > > > > simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed
                to get
                > > > > that to
                > > > > > work myself even though I have seen the machines that he
                did it
                > > > > with. I
                > > > > > have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how
                they
                > > > > worked
                > > > > > but they are quite simple machines.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Hi all,
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section).
                I
                > > can't
                > > > > claim
                > > > > > > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but
                I've
                > > > > seen
                > > > > > > something I can't account for.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal
                > > only the
                > > > > > > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest
                of
                > > rpm
                > > > > change,
                > > > > > > also when I short out the generators, I get the same
                result.
                > > > > > > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the
                > > LEDs, I
                > > > > don't
                > > > > > > get half the rpm increase.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in
                > > parallel
                > > > > since I
                > > > > > > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost
                it to
                > > > > 120 and
                > > > > > > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what
                happens.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder
                > > connected
                > > > > to a
                > > > > > > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and
                > > > > lead/lag of
                > > > > > > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6
                > > Amps.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%.
                I've
                > > > > gone as
                > > > > > > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not
                > > worth the
                > > > > > > power cost.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no
                > > > > expectation of
                > > > > > > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these
                > > pulse
                > > > > motors.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
                > > > > > > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Thanks.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Regards,
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > Mark
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • Russel Prier
                Yes as I said this power out of these things is different and needs to be processed in some way to make it work well in conventional machines.
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 27, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Yes as I said this power out of these things is different and needs to
                  be processed in some way to make it work well in conventional machines.

                  markmoridi wrote:
                  >
                  > Hi Russel,
                  > Thanks for the tips.
                  > What is an inverter? surely you don't mean and dc/ac inverter!
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > Mark
                  >
                  > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>, Russel Prier <russelp@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Mark,
                  > >
                  > > I cannot answer that question without doing it but connecting the
                  > coils
                  > > in series to give lots of inductance usually helps so that you
                  > store a
                  > > fair amount of charge in the coils before you breifly discharge
                  > them and
                  > > time the discharging very carefully as M said so as to give a
                  > positive
                  > > kick when that circuit is switched off. We have done similar
                  > things as
                  > > this in the bedini group but not timed as well as you would get
                  > with a
                  > > rotary encoder so as to be able to adjust and regulate things quite
                  > > accurately and quickly using a plc or coupter of some sort. Yes
                  > you can
                  > > charge caps and then discharge them so that you are charging or
                  > > discharging but not doing both at the same time. As this power is
                  > > slightly different fron your normal DC John Bedini has said it will
                  > > probably work better if you put it through an inverter then rectify
                  > it
                  > > into DC and use it but I dont know If RA did things this way. His
                  > > machines self powered fine and poured out energy continuously
                  > without
                  > > any input once they were running.
                  > > There are some trick to be learned along the way and some of these
                  > have
                  > > been lost unfortunately.
                  > >
                  > > markmoridi wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hi Russel,
                  > > >
                  > > > I agree with most of what you say. I am not arrogant, just
                  > cautious
                  > > > and want proof and I am willing to do the work to get it. I need
                  > to
                  > > > see this "more energy out than in" for myself.
                  > > > As far as what you said about the atoms and energy, I am of the
                  > > > opinion that anything is possible. This universe could all be a
                  > dream
                  > > > of someone, or could be an atom in some one's poo too! This sort
                  > of
                  > > > philosophical pondering has no practical use to me and makes me
                  > > > crazy. So I try not to think about it. My father spent most of his
                  > > > life on philosophy and practicing medicine and told me in his last
                  > > > years that he ended up with more questions than answers. I want to
                  > > > find out once and for all if I can cheat mother nature or not.
                  > Period.
                  > > >
                  > > > I don't care if this new energy can not be seen by a scope or any
                  > > > meter, as long as it can manifest itself in some form that I can
                  > > > measure and use. Heat would be good enough for me. Electrical
                  > would
                  > > > be ideal.
                  > > >
                  > > > Anyways, I have built and installed 2 new generators today. The
                  > first
                  > > > ones where 30 AWG wire and gave me plenty of voltage but not
                  > enough
                  > > > current. These new ones are 22 gauge and I'll post pictures when I
                  > > > have all 4 installed.
                  > > > The speedup is even more noticeable now. Close to 100 RPMs
                  > difference
                  > > > between unloaded and dead shorted. My machine runs at 600 RPM at
                  > 38
                  > > > volts. If it was a 5-6" rotor, I suspect I would get around 2500-
                  > 3000
                  > > > RPM. I can't wait to finish putting the gens in and take it up to
                  > > > 120v.
                  > > > I will build 2 more gens tomorrow and hook them up and see what
                  > > > happens.
                  > > >
                  > > > Russel, would it not be logical that if I ganged these gens in
                  > series
                  > > > and tune up the machine to get the best power from the gens, that
                  > I
                  > > > could filter to DC using a full bridge and low ESR caps and feed
                  > > > this power back to the main battery banks? I am getting 24 volts
                  > with
                  > > > these 2 in series. 2 more should give me 48 volts total which
                  > would
                  > > > be plenty to recharge the main batteries.
                  > > > Would this not close the loop and self run if there is more output
                  > > > than input? would it be more complicated than this?
                  > > >
                  > > > I am using 3 NiMH banks each 12v/10Ah. In your opinion, would this
                  > > > sort of energy be able to charge these batteries or do I need to
                  > work
                  > > > with LA batteries?
                  > > >
                  > > > How would I know if I have more energy out than in if I can't
                  > measure
                  > > > it?
                  > > > Is thermally the only way?
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                  > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Hi Mark,
                  > > > >
                  > > > > What you have built is half an early Adams motor. What
                  > Maimariati
                  > > > built
                  > > > > was the whole of the early Adams motor design so without the
                  > other
                  > > > coils
                  > > > > you cannot pronounce a judgement on what is happening until you
                  > > > have
                  > > > > proved it. In the Bedini groups I have been in we had a number
                  > of
                  > > > EEs
                  > > > > who all started like you and took months to get to look with an
                  > > > open
                  > > > > mind at what was happening but when they got it became the most
                  > > > > enthusiastic of our members. The extra energy that does turn up
                  > in
                  > > > > these machines is gated through the magnets not sourced from the
                  > > > magnets
                  > > > > but just gated by them. We live in a sea of energy an atom is
                  > not
                  > > > a
                  > > > > perpetual motion machine but recieves a constant input of energy
                  > > > from an
                  > > > > outside source as does all matter in the universe. In fact all
                  > > > matter is
                  > > > > just energy, take away the energy and you have no matter. Are
                  > > > you
                  > > > > familar with Tom Beardons work in this area?
                  > > > > If you think M's results are BS they are nothing compred to the
                  > > > later
                  > > > > generation of machine the RA built before he died. The energy
                  > you
                  > > > are
                  > > > > looking at is AC or DC but what we get is not AC or DC but like
                  > > > Static
                  > > > > and RF energy which is converted in a capacitor to give dc like
                  > > > energy.
                  > > > > It cannot be read on meters as RA commented many times, but will
                  > > > > perform work which can be measured calorifically ie. in the time
                  > > > it
                  > > > > takes to heat a certain amount of water to a certain remperature
                  > > > and is
                  > > > > not an allusion but real energy that wont even appear on
                  > > > conventional
                  > > > > meters which are based on ohms law which does not apply to this
                  > > > sort of
                  > > > > energy. Negative energy is the opposite of positive and all the
                  > > > rules
                  > > > > are different. We are not talking about plus and minus valtage
                  > but
                  > > > an
                  > > > > opposite type of electrical energy they have never taught in
                  > > > learning
                  > > > > institutions. If you insist on sticking to what you were taught
                  > in
                  > > > Uni
                  > > > > you will never ever get it as you have to look beyond that
                  > limited
                  > > > > stuff. Tesla well understood this energy but the educational
                  > > > > institutions were not allowed to teach it from the early part of
                  > > > last
                  > > > > century because Rockerfella and J P morgan knew there was no
                  > future
                  > > > for
                  > > > > there oil empires if this stuff got out there and rockerfella
                  > got
                  > > > > control of the educational institutions very early on. You can
                  > see
                  > > > that
                  > > > > if you look at the biased way medical science has gone or
                  > > > electrical
                  > > > > science has missed so much of what was known and subsequentially
                  > > > lost by
                  > > > > being riddiculed marginalised etc. Johnson could measure when he
                  > > > pulsed
                  > > > > magnets in a certain way that they delivered pulses 200 times
                  > > > greater
                  > > > > than there base strength and belived they could deliver pulses a
                  > > > 1000
                  > > > > times greater and RA had proved the same thing himself. We have
                  > > > filing
                  > > > > cabinets full of his papers and experimental work and much of
                  > it is
                  > > > at
                  > > > > odds with conventional EE teaching but does not mean it is wrong
                  > > > but
                  > > > > that the current state of knowledge is incomplete and I would
                  > never
                  > > > be
                  > > > > arrogant enough to say that we know it all already because we
                  > are
                  > > > all
                  > > > > still learning.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Hi Russel,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Thanks for the reply.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that's my
                  > > > opinion
                  > > > > > based on my own experimental observations.
                  > > > > > We tend to believe what we read as fact but the fact is
                  > people are
                  > > > > > complicated and often lie for no apparent reason, only for
                  > > > > > psychological and ego reasons.
                  > > > > > If this poster is reading this, I ask for a simple picture of
                  > the
                  > > > > > unit for others to see his/her wonderful work and admire it.
                  > > > Nothing
                  > > > > > more.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary that my EE
                  > background
                  > > > > > couldn't account for, except what I posted.
                  > > > > > Many people confuse the recoil effect with back EMF. To set
                  > the
                  > > > > > record straight, back emf or counter emf (cemf) is the power
                  > > > induced
                  > > > > > in the coil that is the opposite in polarity (opposes) the emf
                  > > > > > (battery) voltage. This voltage is proportional to the speed
                  > of
                  > > > the
                  > > > > > rotor and the reason motors don't speedup to infinite RPMs.
                  > > > > > The speed stops increasing as soon as the emf voltage equals
                  > the
                  > > > cemf
                  > > > > > produced by the motor (the curved voltage you see before
                  > pulsing
                  > > > the
                  > > > > > stator). Increase the voltage and the motor speed up until the
                  > > > cemf
                  > > > > > is once again equal to the emf.
                  > > > > > The recoil effect (or bucking) is the sharp surge of power
                  > that is
                  > > > > > produced as soon as the drive current to the coil stops. The
                  > > > power in
                  > > > > > this recoil in nothing special. I have studied it very
                  > carefully
                  > > > and
                  > > > > > it's always the same. Input power minus the copper and other
                  > > > losses.
                  > > > > > This recoil effect mesmerizes people not properly trained. It
                  > is
                  > > > well
                  > > > > > understood in EE and is the basis for switching power
                  > supplies.
                  > > > > > If the zero point energy, G-field or whatever one wants to
                  > call
                  > > > it,
                  > > > > > existed in the recoil, why do we even need a rotor or even
                  > magnets
                  > > > > > for that matter? Why not just pulse a cored coil and redirect
                  > the
                  > > > > > bucking and use it?
                  > > > > > There is nothing special there regardless of what Bedini and
                  > > > others
                  > > > > > say.
                  > > > > > The reason I decided to build an Adams motor and not a Bedini
                  > or
                  > > > > > Muller, etc., is they are too complex to analyse properly.
                  > There
                  > > > are
                  > > > > > transformation actions going on and it's easy to loose one's
                  > way.
                  > > > > > The thing I like about AM is that the generator and drive
                  > section
                  > > > are
                  > > > > > separate and can be scrutinized independently or as close to
                  > > > > > independently as possible.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > What I think is happening (and anyone can jump in) is that,
                  > the
                  > > > > > stator poles reverse themselves momentarily like Howard
                  > Johnson
                  > > > said
                  > > > > > in his statement that under some conditions, "North will
                  > attract
                  > > > > > North and repel south and south poles will attract south
                  > poles and
                  > > > > > repeal north poles".
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of unusual things in
                  > my
                  > > > > > motor which I am currently studying. One is what I mentioned
                  > in my
                  > > > > > last post, the other is that when I look at the scope shot of
                  > the
                  > > > > > voltage from the gen coils (not under load) I see the positive
                  > > > cycle
                  > > > > > as 28 volts peak but the negative cycle is only 20 volts peak.
                  > > > > > They should be the same but the magnet (mine is all north) is
                  > > > > > inducing more voltage in coming in to register as opposed to
                  > > > leaving
                  > > > > > register.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I would like to find an explanation other than the mumbo jumbo
                  > > > stuff
                  > > > > > one finds on the web.
                  > > > > > Me thinks the magnets are the culprit. If there is any excess
                  > > > energy,
                  > > > > > it will have to come from the depletion of the electrons in
                  > the
                  > > > > > magnets. Sort of like rubbing electrons together.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > It's a well known fact that Atoms do decay, but it takes
                  > billions
                  > > > or
                  > > > > > even hundreds of billions of years of our time. A proof of
                  > that
                  > > > would
                  > > > > > be the existence of Uranium for example. If all mater on
                  > earth was
                  > > > > > created in stars elsewhere, why do we still have full fledged
                  > > > Uranium
                  > > > > > we can mine? Should that not have all been depleted billions
                  > of
                  > > > years
                  > > > > > ago having a half life of only thousands of years?
                  > > > > > Some other element decays to become Uranium and then lead and
                  > > > > > eventually everything in the periodic table will decay
                  > backwards
                  > > > to
                  > > > > > hydrogen and the whole thing (big bang) starts over again.
                  > > > > > I don't believe in ether either. It was proven not to exist
                  > back
                  > > > in
                  > > > > > the 60's when an experimental laser was pulsed to the moon and
                  > > > back
                  > > > > > and the return beam was analysed and found not to have
                  > shifted at
                  > > > > > all. If photons move in this medium like sound travels through
                  > > > air or
                  > > > > > waves travel through water, then there must have been a
                  > > > > > shift/deflection in the beam since no medium is completely
                  > > > > > homogeneous and stationary. Hence there would be ether wind
                  > that
                  > > > > > would affect the returned laser.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > That's my take on that and it keeps me sane.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Too bad Robert Adams and Bill Muller took their experiences to
                  > > > grave
                  > > > > > with them instead of sharing them with humanity.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Speaking of wind, this one has become a long-winded post.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Regards,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Mark
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
                  > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                  > > > wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Hi Mark,
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you
                  > seen
                  > > > > > Robert
                  > > > > > > adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically
                  > what
                  > > > > > was
                  > > > > > > posted about recently.
                  > > > > > > It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery
                  > > > coils
                  > > > > > which
                  > > > > > > when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can
                  > deliver
                  > > > > > very
                  > > > > > > useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to
                  > expand
                  > > > to
                  > > > > > do
                  > > > > > > that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery
                  > coils
                  > > > at
                  > > > > > 44.7
                  > > > > > > degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45
                  > degrees
                  > > > but
                  > > > > > Robert
                  > > > > > > did not find this to be the best position. He used the
                  > golden
                  > > > > > ratio
                  > > > > > > which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the
                  > drive
                  > > > > > coils
                  > > > > > > and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had
                  > > > > > things. The
                  > > > > > > old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled
                  > when
                  > > > I
                  > > > > > saw
                  > > > > > > them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was
                  > between
                  > > > the
                  > > > > > coil
                  > > > > > > sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be
                  > trying to
                  > > > > > > duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get
                  > some
                  > > > time
                  > > > > > to
                  > > > > > > work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and
                  > > > getting
                  > > > > > more
                  > > > > > > speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do
                  > > > that
                  > > > > > to.
                  > > > > > > Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using
                  > > > only 2
                  > > > > > > coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
                  > > > > > > simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed
                  > to get
                  > > > > > that to
                  > > > > > > work myself even though I have seen the machines that he
                  > did it
                  > > > > > with. I
                  > > > > > > have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how
                  > they
                  > > > > > worked
                  > > > > > > but they are quite simple machines.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Hi all,
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section).
                  > I
                  > > > can't
                  > > > > > claim
                  > > > > > > > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but
                  > I've
                  > > > > > seen
                  > > > > > > > something I can't account for.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal
                  > > > only the
                  > > > > > > > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest
                  > of
                  > > > rpm
                  > > > > > change,
                  > > > > > > > also when I short out the generators, I get the same
                  > result.
                  > > > > > > > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the
                  > > > LEDs, I
                  > > > > > don't
                  > > > > > > > get half the rpm increase.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in
                  > > > parallel
                  > > > > > since I
                  > > > > > > > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost
                  > it to
                  > > > > > 120 and
                  > > > > > > > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what
                  > happens.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder
                  > > > connected
                  > > > > > to a
                  > > > > > > > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and
                  > > > > > lead/lag of
                  > > > > > > > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6
                  > > > Amps.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%.
                  > I've
                  > > > > > gone as
                  > > > > > > > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not
                  > > > worth the
                  > > > > > > > power cost.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no
                  > > > > > expectation of
                  > > > > > > > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these
                  > > > pulse
                  > > > > > motors.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
                  > > > > > > > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Thanks.
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Regards,
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > > Mark
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > >
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                • Gáva, Tamás
                  Hi there! Well Russel your last comment was a bit mystical, wasn t it? Conversation at this mailing list wasn t so frequent and interesting till now as I read
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 31, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi there!

                    Well Russel your last comment was a bit mystical, wasn't it?

                    Conversation at this mailing list wasn't so frequent and interesting till now as I read this list few years ago.

                    What I mean when Mark Moridi began to write it attracted my attention. His previous technical descriptions and his last EM theoretical explanation was so detailed and well stuctured I felt for a moment that I could built a good motor myself. :) But unfortunately I know that actually I cannot...

                    I began to read about this "free energy" stuff on the internet seven years ago. I found lot of materials but very few were useful practically. As I am not an EE expert but one who is really interested in fiddling with electronic devices I wanted to find kind of a "how to build" thing. I' ve found a very good website (which was moved several times by now) describing something like a "starter kit" for home experimenting with Adams motors. It is called the "CD Adams motor". Anyone can find it just type the phrase "CD Adams motor" into Google and see.

                    This thing is a very simple setup. The only coil is timed using a hall IC. I tried to built it myself. Unfortunately timing is a crucial feature of these kind of devices so it should have been built by very strict geometrical proportions which I could not reproduce. I managed to make it spin. I could play with the position of the hall IC for timing. I don't have an oscilloscope, so I used a Windows program called "Winscope" to picture what's happening in the circuit. Unfortunately this program uses the sound card for AD conversion so the result was very far from optimal. Unfortunately my motor did not show the expected effect and I gave up.

                    Most important that the author wrote this setup could be producing all the "over unity" features that an Adams motor can do. No need for separate drive and generator coils. The author gave an important hint for simlpe checking whether the experimenter does things the right way. If the transistor (or mosfet) was heating you got it wrong. If it cooled you got it right. One can monitor this effect very simply by putting his finger on the transistor. (I think you found out by now that the transistor was heating in my motor.) The author wrote that the cooling effect is a very important feature of the device. As I can remember the explanation was at a different website (but now I don't know where) and was that in "inverted" circuits when the coils are pulsed in the right timing regiment at a critital timepoint electromagnetic fields interacting between the coils and the magnets (not NIB magnets just simple ceramic) are generating a small "time reversal" effect. During this effect energy can flow in the opposite way that entropy could normally let. So the device is drawing heat from the environment which is converted to kinetic energy of the mobile electrons. That's why the back current is higher than the input.

                    According to this another outhors of the same group of the author of the CD Adams motor site wrote at different sites that they could built stationary generators. The most important components of this device are the ceramic magnets coils and the pulsed current timed the right way. So movement is not a crucial part of the "inverse" circuit's operation.

                    I have found another site that described a "Motionless Electromagnetic Generator" abbreviated as "MEG". This site detailed the same physical effect as above and added a new electronic part which was needed to make a stationary over unity device work. This part was like a mosfet but had a special feature. It could draw and pump the inversely flowing "static" energy into the circuit by conveting it to regular current.

                    Well I think this must be the "inverter" which Russel was referring to.

                    This was the time I gave up planning experiments by myself. I thought this is not for regular people but only EE experts. I thought University staff should be examining these interesting physical phenomena and I did not understood why they keep aloof of these things. I have two university degrees. One medical and another in medical engineering. When attending the engineering courses (mostly they were electrical oriented) I tried to talk to my teachers about these phenomena but every time they began to act as they thougt I'm not really mentally healthy some kind. I really do not understand why they are so aversed of these things. There were days when most of the peolpe thought that flying for human was impossible. There were few who believed blindly that it is possible. There were most of the few who were actually crazy and done really crazy things. But then again there were few of the few who managed to figure out the way flying for human is possible and they did it quite right inspite they did not really understand the principles they are using in their machines. They were only few renegates and now scientists explore and teach these principles at Universities.

                    I think today is the same about these "inverted" circuits. Now there are just a few who recognize the importance and the future of these phenomena but few years later they will be explored and teached at Universities. The only thing you guys should do is to keep fiddling keep promoting what you do and wait the time to be excepted widely.

                    Oh and another important thing. Don't mystify the explanations. Keep it clear and logical. Don't operate with too much unproven theories and don't say "I believe". It is science not religion. You believe in the church not in science. You have to use assumptions but you must'nt say you believe or you are conserned about things that are'nt proven.

                    I think Mark Moridi does it the right way and I am really excited about what he will explore. I can't wait reading Mark's new findings.

                    Go Mark!

                    Best regards,

                    Gava, Tamas


                    ----- Original Message ----
                    From: Russel Prier <russelp@...>
                    To: adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:53:12 PM
                    Subject: Re: [SPAM][SPAM][SPAM]Re: [adamsmotor] Adams motor question

                    Yes as I said this power out of these things is different and needs to
                    be processed in some way to make it work well in conventional machines.

                    markmoridi wrote:

                    >
                    > Hi Russel,
                    > Thanks for the tips.
                    > What is an inverter? surely you don't mean and dc/ac inverter!
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > Mark
                    >
                    > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                    > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@... > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi Mark,
                    > >
                    > > I cannot answer that question without doing it but connecting the
                    > coils
                    > > in series to give lots of inductance usually helps so that you
                    > store a
                    > > fair amount of charge in the coils before you breifly discharge
                    > them and
                    > > time the discharging very carefully as M said so as to give a
                    > positive
                    > > kick when that circuit is switched off. We have done similar
                    > things as
                    > > this in the bedini group but not timed as well as you would get
                    > with a
                    > > rotary encoder so as to be able to adjust and regulate things quite
                    > > accurately and quickly using a plc or coupter of some sort. Yes
                    > you can
                    > > charge caps and then discharge them so that you are charging or
                    > > discharging but not doing both at the same time. As this power is
                    > > slightly different fron your normal DC John Bedini has said it will
                    > > probably work better if you put it through an inverter then rectify
                    > it
                    > > into DC and use it but I dont know If RA did things this way. His
                    > > machines self powered fine and poured out energy continuously
                    > without
                    > > any input once they were running.
                    > > There are some trick to be learned along the way and some of these
                    > have
                    > > been lost unfortunately.
                    > >
                    > > markmoridi wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Russel,
                    > > >
                    > > > I agree with most of what you say. I am not arrogant, just
                    > cautious
                    > > > and want proof and I am willing to do the work to get it. I need
                    > to
                    > > > see this "more energy out than in" for myself.
                    > > > As far as what you said about the atoms and energy, I am of the
                    > > > opinion that anything is possible. This universe could all be a
                    > dream
                    > > > of someone, or could be an atom in some one's poo too! This sort
                    > of
                    > > > philosophical pondering has no practical use to me and makes me
                    > > > crazy. So I try not to think about it. My father spent most of his
                    > > > life on philosophy and practicing medicine and told me in his last
                    > > > years that he ended up with more questions than answers. I want to
                    > > > find out once and for all if I can cheat mother nature or not.
                    > Period.
                    > > >
                    > > > I don't care if this new energy can not be seen by a scope or any
                    > > > meter, as long as it can manifest itself in some form that I can
                    > > > measure and use. Heat would be good enough for me. Electrical
                    > would
                    > > > be ideal.
                    > > >
                    > > > Anyways, I have built and installed 2 new generators today. The
                    > first
                    > > > ones where 30 AWG wire and gave me plenty of voltage but not
                    > enough
                    > > > current. These new ones are 22 gauge and I'll post pictures when I
                    > > > have all 4 installed.
                    > > > The speedup is even more noticeable now. Close to 100 RPMs
                    > difference
                    > > > between unloaded and dead shorted. My machine runs at 600 RPM at
                    > 38
                    > > > volts. If it was a 5-6" rotor, I suspect I would get around 2500-
                    > 3000
                    > > > RPM. I can't wait to finish putting the gens in and take it up to
                    > > > 120v.
                    > > > I will build 2 more gens tomorrow and hook them up and see what
                    > > > happens.
                    > > >
                    > > > Russel, would it not be logical that if I ganged these gens in
                    > series
                    > > > and tune up the machine to get the best power from the gens, that
                    > I
                    > > > could filter to DC using a full bridge and low ESR caps and feed
                    > > > this power back to the main battery banks? I am getting 24 volts
                    > with
                    > > > these 2 in series. 2 more should give me 48 volts total which
                    > would
                    > > > be plenty to recharge the main batteries.
                    > > > Would this not close the loop and self run if there is more output
                    > > > than input? would it be more complicated than this?
                    > > >
                    > > > I am using 3 NiMH banks each 12v/10Ah. In your opinion, would this
                    > > > sort of energy be able to charge these batteries or do I need to
                    > work
                    > > > with LA batteries?
                    > > >
                    > > > How would I know if I have more energy out than in if I can't
                    > measure
                    > > > it?
                    > > > Is thermally the only way?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                    > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                    > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                    > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi Mark,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > What you have built is half an early Adams motor. What
                    > Maimariati
                    > > > built
                    > > > > was the whole of the early Adams motor design so without the
                    > other
                    > > > coils
                    > > > > you cannot pronounce a judgement on what is happening until you
                    > > > have
                    > > > > proved it. In the Bedini groups I have been in we had a number
                    > of
                    > > > EEs
                    > > > > who all started like you and took months to get to look with an
                    > > > open
                    > > > > mind at what was happening but when they got it became the most
                    > > > > enthusiastic of our members. The extra energy that does turn up
                    > in
                    > > > > these machines is gated through the magnets not sourced from the
                    > > > magnets
                    > > > > but just gated by them. We live in a sea of energy an atom is
                    > not
                    > > > a
                    > > > > perpetual motion machine but recieves a constant input of energy
                    > > > from an
                    > > > > outside source as does all matter in the universe. In fact all
                    > > > matter is
                    > > > > just energy, take away the energy and you have no matter. Are
                    > > > you
                    > > > > familar with Tom Beardons work in this area?
                    > > > > If you think M's results are BS they are nothing compred to the
                    > > > later
                    > > > > generation of machine the RA built before he died. The energy
                    > you
                    > > > are
                    > > > > looking at is AC or DC but what we get is not AC or DC but like
                    > > > Static
                    > > > > and RF energy which is converted in a capacitor to give dc like
                    > > > energy.
                    > > > > It cannot be read on meters as RA commented many times, but will
                    > > > > perform work which can be measured calorifically ie. in the time
                    > > > it
                    > > > > takes to heat a certain amount of water to a certain remperature
                    > > > and is
                    > > > > not an allusion but real energy that wont even appear on
                    > > > conventional
                    > > > > meters which are based on ohms law which does not apply to this
                    > > > sort of
                    > > > > energy. Negative energy is the opposite of positive and all the
                    > > > rules
                    > > > > are different. We are not talking about plus and minus valtage
                    > but
                    > > > an
                    > > > > opposite type of electrical energy they have never taught in
                    > > > learning
                    > > > > institutions. If you insist on sticking to what you were taught
                    > in
                    > > > Uni
                    > > > > you will never ever get it as you have to look beyond that
                    > limited
                    > > > > stuff. Tesla well understood this energy but the educational
                    > > > > institutions were not allowed to teach it from the early part of
                    > > > last
                    > > > > century because Rockerfella and J P morgan knew there was no
                    > future
                    > > > for
                    > > > > there oil empires if this stuff got out there and rockerfella
                    > got
                    > > > > control of the educational institutions very early on. You can
                    > see
                    > > > that
                    > > > > if you look at the biased way medical science has gone or
                    > > > electrical
                    > > > > science has missed so much of what was known and subsequentially
                    > > > lost by
                    > > > > being riddiculed marginalised etc. Johnson could measure when he
                    > > > pulsed
                    > > > > magnets in a certain way that they delivered pulses 200 times
                    > > > greater
                    > > > > than there base strength and belived they could deliver pulses a
                    > > > 1000
                    > > > > times greater and RA had proved the same thing himself. We have
                    > > > filing
                    > > > > cabinets full of his papers and experimental work and much of
                    > it is
                    > > > at
                    > > > > odds with conventional EE teaching but does not mean it is wrong
                    > > > but
                    > > > > that the current state of knowledge is incomplete and I would
                    > never
                    > > > be
                    > > > > arrogant enough to say that we know it all already because we
                    > are
                    > > > all
                    > > > > still learning.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hi Russel,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Thanks for the reply.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that's my
                    > > > opinion
                    > > > > > based on my own experimental observations.
                    > > > > > We tend to believe what we read as fact but the fact is
                    > people are
                    > > > > > complicated and often lie for no apparent reason, only for
                    > > > > > psychological and ego reasons.
                    > > > > > If this poster is reading this, I ask for a simple picture of
                    > the
                    > > > > > unit for others to see his/her wonderful work and admire it.
                    > > > Nothing
                    > > > > > more.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary that my EE
                    > background
                    > > > > > couldn't account for, except what I posted.
                    > > > > > Many people confuse the recoil effect with back EMF. To set
                    > the
                    > > > > > record straight, back emf or counter emf (cemf) is the power
                    > > > induced
                    > > > > > in the coil that is the opposite in polarity (opposes) the emf
                    > > > > > (battery) voltage. This voltage is proportional to the speed
                    > of
                    > > > the
                    > > > > > rotor and the reason motors don't speedup to infinite RPMs.
                    > > > > > The speed stops increasing as soon as the emf voltage equals
                    > the
                    > > > cemf
                    > > > > > produced by the motor (the curved voltage you see before
                    > pulsing
                    > > > the
                    > > > > > stator). Increase the voltage and the motor speed up until the
                    > > > cemf
                    > > > > > is once again equal to the emf.
                    > > > > > The recoil effect (or bucking) is the sharp surge of power
                    > that is
                    > > > > > produced as soon as the drive current to the coil stops. The
                    > > > power in
                    > > > > > this recoil in nothing special. I have studied it very
                    > carefully
                    > > > and
                    > > > > > it's always the same. Input power minus the copper and other
                    > > > losses.
                    > > > > > This recoil effect mesmerizes people not properly trained. It
                    > is
                    > > > well
                    > > > > > understood in EE and is the basis for switching power
                    > supplies.
                    > > > > > If the zero point energy, G-field or whatever one wants to
                    > call
                    > > > it,
                    > > > > > existed in the recoil, why do we even need a rotor or even
                    > magnets
                    > > > > > for that matter? Why not just pulse a cored coil and redirect
                    > the
                    > > > > > bucking and use it?
                    > > > > > There is nothing special there regardless of what Bedini and
                    > > > others
                    > > > > > say.
                    > > > > > The reason I decided to build an Adams motor and not a Bedini
                    > or
                    > > > > > Muller, etc., is they are too complex to analyse properly.
                    > There
                    > > > are
                    > > > > > transformation actions going on and it's easy to loose one's
                    > way.
                    > > > > > The thing I like about AM is that the generator and drive
                    > section
                    > > > are
                    > > > > > separate and can be scrutinized independently or as close to
                    > > > > > independently as possible.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > What I think is happening (and anyone can jump in) is that,
                    > the
                    > > > > > stator poles reverse themselves momentarily like Howard
                    > Johnson
                    > > > said
                    > > > > > in his statement that under some conditions, "North will
                    > attract
                    > > > > > North and repel south and south poles will attract south
                    > poles and
                    > > > > > repeal north poles".
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of unusual things in
                    > my
                    > > > > > motor which I am currently studying. One is what I mentioned
                    > in my
                    > > > > > last post, the other is that when I look at the scope shot of
                    > the
                    > > > > > voltage from the gen coils (not under load) I see the positive
                    > > > cycle
                    > > > > > as 28 volts peak but the negative cycle is only 20 volts peak.
                    > > > > > They should be the same but the magnet (mine is all north) is
                    > > > > > inducing more voltage in coming in to register as opposed to
                    > > > leaving
                    > > > > > register.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I would like to find an explanation other than the mumbo jumbo
                    > > > stuff
                    > > > > > one finds on the web.
                    > > > > > Me thinks the magnets are the culprit. If there is any excess
                    > > > energy,
                    > > > > > it will have to come from the depletion of the electrons in
                    > the
                    > > > > > magnets. Sort of like rubbing electrons together.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > It's a well known fact that Atoms do decay, but it takes
                    > billions
                    > > > or
                    > > > > > even hundreds of billions of years of our time. A proof of
                    > that
                    > > > would
                    > > > > > be the existence of Uranium for example. If all mater on
                    > earth was
                    > > > > > created in stars elsewhere, why do we still have full fledged
                    > > > Uranium
                    > > > > > we can mine? Should that not have all been depleted billions
                    > of
                    > > > years
                    > > > > > ago having a half life of only thousands of years?
                    > > > > > Some other element decays to become Uranium and then lead and
                    > > > > > eventually everything in the periodic table will decay
                    > backwards
                    > > > to
                    > > > > > hydrogen and the whole thing (big bang) starts over again.
                    > > > > > I don't believe in ether either. It was proven not to exist
                    > back
                    > > > in
                    > > > > > the 60's when an experimental laser was pulsed to the moon and
                    > > > back
                    > > > > > and the return beam was analysed and found not to have
                    > shifted at
                    > > > > > all. If photons move in this medium like sound travels through
                    > > > air or
                    > > > > > waves travel through water, then there must have been a
                    > > > > > shift/deflection in the beam since no medium is completely
                    > > > > > homogeneous and stationary. Hence there would be ether wind
                    > that
                    > > > > > would affect the returned laser.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > That's my take on that and it keeps me sane.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Too bad Robert Adams and Bill Muller took their experiences to
                    > > > grave
                    > > > > > with them instead of sharing them with humanity.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Speaking of wind, this one has become a long-winded post.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Regards,
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Mark
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                    > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                    > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                    > > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                    > > > wrote:
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > Hi Mark,
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you
                    > seen
                    > > > > > Robert
                    > > > > > > adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically
                    > what
                    > > > > > was
                    > > > > > > posted about recently.
                    > > > > > > It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery
                    > > > coils
                    > > > > > which
                    > > > > > > when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can
                    > deliver
                    > > > > > very
                    > > > > > > useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to
                    > expand
                    > > > to
                    > > > > > do
                    > > > > > > that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery
                    > coils
                    > > > at
                    > > > > > 44.7
                    > > > > > > degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45
                    > degrees
                    > > > but
                    > > > > > Robert
                    > > > > > > did not find this to be the best position. He used the
                    > golden
                    > > > > > ratio
                    > > > > > > which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the
                    > drive
                    > > > > > coils
                    > > > > > > and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had
                    > > > > > things. The
                    > > > > > > old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled
                    > when
                    > > > I
                    > > > > > saw
                    > > > > > > them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was
                    > between
                    > > > the
                    > > > > > coil
                    > > > > > > sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be
                    > trying to
                    > > > > > > duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get
                    > some
                    > > > time
                    > > > > > to
                    > > > > > > work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and
                    > > > getting
                    > > > > > more
                    > > > > > > speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do
                    > > > that
                    > > > > > to.
                    > > > > > > Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using
                    > > > only 2
                    > > > > > > coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
                    > > > > > > simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed
                    > to get
                    > > > > > that to
                    > > > > > > work myself even though I have seen the machines that he
                    > did it
                    > > > > > with. I
                    > > > > > > have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how
                    > they
                    > > > > > worked
                    > > > > > > but they are quite simple machines.
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Hi all,
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section).
                    > I
                    > > > can't
                    > > > > > claim
                    > > > > > > > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but
                    > I've
                    > > > > > seen
                    > > > > > > > something I can't account for.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal
                    > > > only the
                    > > > > > > > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest
                    > of
                    > > > rpm
                    > > > > > change,
                    > > > > > > > also when I short out the generators, I get the same
                    > result.
                    > > > > > > > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the
                    > > > LEDs, I
                    > > > > > don't
                    > > > > > > > get half the rpm increase.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in
                    > > > parallel
                    > > > > > since I
                    > > > > > > > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost
                    > it to
                    > > > > > 120 and
                    > > > > > > > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what
                    > happens.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder
                    > > > connected
                    > > > > > to a
                    > > > > > > > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and
                    > > > > > lead/lag of
                    > > > > > > > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6
                    > > > Amps.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%.
                    > I've
                    > > > > > gone as
                    > > > > > > > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not
                    > > > worth the
                    > > > > > > > power cost.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no
                    > > > > > expectation of
                    > > > > > > > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these
                    > > > pulse
                    > > > > > motors.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
                    > > > > > > > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Thanks.
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Regards,
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > > Mark
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > > >
                    > > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >


                  • Russel Prier
                    Hi Tamas, Why dont you try building the Bedini schoolgirl motor to start with. Wind the bifilla coil with 24 gauge and 28 gauge wire and the timing will take
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 31, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Tamas,

                      Why dont you try building the Bedini schoolgirl motor to start with.
                      Wind the bifilla coil with 24 gauge and 28 gauge wire and the timing
                      will take care of itself. It is not as powerful a generator as an
                      Adamsmotor but will be easier to get running and give you a good
                      starting point to build your knowleedge and experience form. I am a
                      machinist not skilled in electronics either.

                      All the best Russ P.


                      Gáva wrote:
                      > Hi there!
                      >
                      > Well Russel your last comment was a bit mystical, wasn't it?
                      >
                      > Conversation at this mailing list wasn't so frequent and interesting
                      > till now as I read this list few years ago.
                      >
                      > What I mean when Mark Moridi began to write it attracted my attention.
                      > His previous technical descriptions and his last EM theoretical
                      > explanation was so detailed and well stuctured I felt for a moment
                      > that I could built a good motor myself. :) But unfortunately I know
                      > that actually I cannot...
                      >
                      > I began to read about this "free energy" stuff on the internet seven
                      > years ago. I found lot of materials but very few were useful
                      > practically. As I am not an EE expert but one who is really interested
                      > in fiddling with electronic devices I wanted to find kind of a "how to
                      > build" thing. I' ve found a very good website (which was moved several
                      > times by now) describing something like a "starter kit" for home
                      > experimenting with Adams motors. It is called the "CD Adams motor".
                      > Anyone can find it just type the phrase "CD Adams motor" into Google
                      > and see.
                      >
                      > This thing is a very simple setup. The only coil is timed using a hall
                      > IC. I tried to built it myself. Unfortunately timing is a crucial
                      > feature of these kind of devices so it should have been built by very
                      > strict geometrical proportions which I could not reproduce. I managed
                      > to make it spin. I could play with the position of the hall IC for
                      > timing. I don't have an oscilloscope, so I used a Windows program
                      > called "Winscope" to picture what's happening in the circuit.
                      > Unfortunately this program uses the sound card for AD conversion so
                      > the result was very far from optimal. Unfortunately my motor did not
                      > show the expected effect and I gave up.
                      >
                      > Most important that the author wrote this setup could be producing all
                      > the "over unity" features that an Adams motor can do. No need for
                      > separate drive and generator coils. The author gave an important hint
                      > for simlpe checking whether the experimenter does things the right
                      > way. If the transistor (or mosfet) was heating you got it wrong. If it
                      > cooled you got it right. One can monitor this effect very simply by
                      > putting his finger on the transistor. (I think you found out by now
                      > that the transistor was heating in my motor.) The author wrote that
                      > the cooling effect is a very important feature of the device. As I can
                      > remember the explanation was at a different website (but now I don't
                      > know where) and was that in "inverted" circuits when the coils are
                      > pulsed in the right timing regiment at a critital timepoint
                      > electromagnetic fields interacting between the coils and the magnets
                      > (not NIB magnets just simple ceramic) are generating a small "time
                      > reversal" effect. During this effect energy can flow in the opposite
                      > way that entropy could normally let. So the device is drawing heat
                      > from the environment which is converted to kinetic energy of the
                      > mobile electrons. That's why the back current is higher than the input.
                      >
                      > According to this another outhors of the same group of the author of
                      > the CD Adams motor site wrote at different sites that they could built
                      > stationary generators. The most important components of this device
                      > are the ceramic magnets coils and the pulsed current timed the right
                      > way. So movement is not a crucial part of the "inverse" circuit's
                      > operation.
                      >
                      > I have found another site that described a "Motionless Electromagnetic
                      > Generator" abbreviated as "MEG". This site detailed the same physical
                      > effect as above and added a new electronic part which was needed to
                      > make a stationary over unity device work. This part was like a mosfet
                      > but had a special feature. It could draw and pump the inversely
                      > flowing "static" energy into the circuit by conveting it to regular
                      > current.
                      >
                      > Well I think this must be the "inverter" which Russel was referring to.
                      >
                      > This was the time I gave up planning experiments by myself. I thought
                      > this is not for regular people but only EE experts. I thought
                      > University staff should be examining these interesting physical
                      > phenomena and I did not understood why they keep aloof of these
                      > things. I have two university degrees. One medical and another in
                      > medical engineering. When attending the engineering courses (mostly
                      > they were electrical oriented) I tried to talk to my teachers about
                      > these phenomena but every time they began to act as they thougt I'm
                      > not really mentally healthy some kind. I really do not understand why
                      > they are so aversed of these things. There were days when most of the
                      > peolpe thought that flying for human was impossible. There were few
                      > who believed blindly that it is possible. There were most of the few
                      > who were actually crazy and done really crazy things. But then again
                      > there were few of the few who managed to figure out the way flying for
                      > human is possible and they did it quite right inspite they did not
                      > really understand the principles they are using in their machines.
                      > They were only few renegates and now scientists explore and teach
                      > these principles at Universities.
                      >
                      > I think today is the same about these "inverted" circuits. Now there
                      > are just a few who recognize the importance and the future of these
                      > phenomena but few years later they will be explored and teached at
                      > Universities. The only thing you guys should do is to keep fiddling
                      > keep promoting what you do and wait the time to be excepted widely.
                      >
                      > Oh and another important thing. Don't mystify the explanations. Keep
                      > it clear and logical. Don't operate with too much unproven theories
                      > and don't say "I believe". It is science not religion. You believe in
                      > the church not in science. You have to use assumptions but you must'nt
                      > say you believe or you are conserned about things that are'nt proven.
                      >
                      > I think Mark Moridi does it the right way and I am really excited
                      > about what he will explore. I can't wait reading Mark's new findings.
                      >
                      > Go Mark!
                      >
                      > Best regards,
                      >
                      > Gava, Tamas
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message ----
                      > From: Russel Prier <russelp@...>
                      > To: adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:53:12 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [SPAM][SPAM][SPAM]Re: [adamsmotor] Adams motor question
                      >
                      > Yes as I said this power out of these things is different and needs to
                      > be processed in some way to make it work well in conventional machines.
                      >
                      > markmoridi wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hi Russel,
                      > > Thanks for the tips.
                      > > What is an inverter? surely you don't mean and dc/ac inverter!
                      > >
                      > > Thanks,
                      > >
                      > > Mark
                      > >
                      > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                      > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@... >
                      > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi Mark,
                      > > >
                      > > > I cannot answer that question without doing it but connecting the
                      > > coils
                      > > > in series to give lots of inductance usually helps so that you
                      > > store a
                      > > > fair amount of charge in the coils before you breifly discharge
                      > > them and
                      > > > time the discharging very carefully as M said so as to give a
                      > > positive
                      > > > kick when that circuit is switched off. We have done similar
                      > > things as
                      > > > this in the bedini group but not timed as well as you would get
                      > > with a
                      > > > rotary encoder so as to be able to adjust and regulate things quite
                      > > > accurately and quickly using a plc or coupter of some sort. Yes
                      > > you can
                      > > > charge caps and then discharge them so that you are charging or
                      > > > discharging but not doing both at the same time. As this power is
                      > > > slightly different fron your normal DC John Bedini has said it will
                      > > > probably work better if you put it through an inverter then rectify
                      > > it
                      > > > into DC and use it but I dont know If RA did things this way. His
                      > > > machines self powered fine and poured out energy continuously
                      > > without
                      > > > any input once they were running.
                      > > > There are some trick to be learned along the way and some of these
                      > > have
                      > > > been lost unfortunately.
                      > > >
                      > > > markmoridi wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hi Russel,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I agree with most of what you say. I am not arrogant, just
                      > > cautious
                      > > > > and want proof and I am willing to do the work to get it. I need
                      > > to
                      > > > > see this "more energy out than in" for myself.
                      > > > > As far as what you said about the atoms and energy, I am of the
                      > > > > opinion that anything is possible. This universe could all be a
                      > > dream
                      > > > > of someone, or could be an atom in some one's poo too! This sort
                      > > of
                      > > > > philosophical pondering has no practical use to me and makes me
                      > > > > crazy. So I try not to think about it. My father spent most of his
                      > > > > life on philosophy and practicing medicine and told me in his last
                      > > > > years that he ended up with more questions than answers. I want to
                      > > > > find out once and for all if I can cheat mother nature or not.
                      > > Period.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I don't care if this new energy can not be seen by a scope or any
                      > > > > meter, as long as it can manifest itself in some form that I can
                      > > > > measure and use. Heat would be good enough for me. Electrical
                      > > would
                      > > > > be ideal.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Anyways, I have built and installed 2 new generators today. The
                      > > first
                      > > > > ones where 30 AWG wire and gave me plenty of voltage but not
                      > > enough
                      > > > > current. These new ones are 22 gauge and I'll post pictures when I
                      > > > > have all 4 installed.
                      > > > > The speedup is even more noticeable now. Close to 100 RPMs
                      > > difference
                      > > > > between unloaded and dead shorted. My machine runs at 600 RPM at
                      > > 38
                      > > > > volts. If it was a 5-6" rotor, I suspect I would get around 2500-
                      > > 3000
                      > > > > RPM. I can't wait to finish putting the gens in and take it up to
                      > > > > 120v.
                      > > > > I will build 2 more gens tomorrow and hook them up and see what
                      > > > > happens.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Russel, would it not be logical that if I ganged these gens in
                      > > series
                      > > > > and tune up the machine to get the best power from the gens, that
                      > > I
                      > > > > could filter to DC using a full bridge and low ESR caps and feed
                      > > > > this power back to the main battery banks? I am getting 24 volts
                      > > with
                      > > > > these 2 in series. 2 more should give me 48 volts total which
                      > > would
                      > > > > be plenty to recharge the main batteries.
                      > > > > Would this not close the loop and self run if there is more output
                      > > > > than input? would it be more complicated than this?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I am using 3 NiMH banks each 12v/10Ah. In your opinion, would this
                      > > > > sort of energy be able to charge these batteries or do I need to
                      > > work
                      > > > > with LA batteries?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > How would I know if I have more energy out than in if I can't
                      > > measure
                      > > > > it?
                      > > > > Is thermally the only way?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                      > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                      > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Hi Mark,
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > What you have built is half an early Adams motor. What
                      > > Maimariati
                      > > > > built
                      > > > > > was the whole of the early Adams motor design so without the
                      > > other
                      > > > > coils
                      > > > > > you cannot pronounce a judgement on what is happening until you
                      > > > > have
                      > > > > > proved it. In the Bedini groups I have been in we had a number
                      > > of
                      > > > > EEs
                      > > > > > who all started like you and took months to get to look with an
                      > > > > open
                      > > > > > mind at what was happening but when they got it became the most
                      > > > > > enthusiastic of our members. The extra energy that does turn up
                      > > in
                      > > > > > these machines is gated through the magnets not sourced from the
                      > > > > magnets
                      > > > > > but just gated by them. We live in a sea of energy an atom is
                      > > not
                      > > > > a
                      > > > > > perpetual motion machine but recieves a constant input of energy
                      > > > > from an
                      > > > > > outside source as does all matter in the universe. In fact all
                      > > > > matter is
                      > > > > > just energy, take away the energy and you have no matter. Are
                      > > > > you
                      > > > > > familar with Tom Beardons work in this area?
                      > > > > > If you think M's results are BS they are nothing compred to the
                      > > > > later
                      > > > > > generation of machine the RA built before he died. The energy
                      > > you
                      > > > > are
                      > > > > > looking at is AC or DC but what we get is not AC or DC but like
                      > > > > Static
                      > > > > > and RF energy which is converted in a capacitor to give dc like
                      > > > > energy.
                      > > > > > It cannot be read on meters as RA commented many times, but will
                      > > > > > perform work which can be measured calorifically ie. in the time
                      > > > > it
                      > > > > > takes to heat a certain amount of water to a certain remperature
                      > > > > and is
                      > > > > > not an allusion but real energy that wont even appear on
                      > > > > conventional
                      > > > > > meters which are based on ohms law which does not apply to this
                      > > > > sort of
                      > > > > > energy. Negative energy is the opposite of positive and all the
                      > > > > rules
                      > > > > > are different. We are not talking about plus and minus valtage
                      > > but
                      > > > > an
                      > > > > > opposite type of electrical energy they have never taught in
                      > > > > learning
                      > > > > > institutions. If you insist on sticking to what you were taught
                      > > in
                      > > > > Uni
                      > > > > > you will never ever get it as you have to look beyond that
                      > > limited
                      > > > > > stuff. Tesla well understood this energy but the educational
                      > > > > > institutions were not allowed to teach it from the early part of
                      > > > > last
                      > > > > > century because Rockerfella and J P morgan knew there was no
                      > > future
                      > > > > for
                      > > > > > there oil empires if this stuff got out there and rockerfella
                      > > got
                      > > > > > control of the educational institutions very early on. You can
                      > > see
                      > > > > that
                      > > > > > if you look at the biased way medical science has gone or
                      > > > > electrical
                      > > > > > science has missed so much of what was known and subsequentially
                      > > > > lost by
                      > > > > > being riddiculed marginalised etc. Johnson could measure when he
                      > > > > pulsed
                      > > > > > magnets in a certain way that they delivered pulses 200 times
                      > > > > greater
                      > > > > > than there base strength and belived they could deliver pulses a
                      > > > > 1000
                      > > > > > times greater and RA had proved the same thing himself. We have
                      > > > > filing
                      > > > > > cabinets full of his papers and experimental work and much of
                      > > it is
                      > > > > at
                      > > > > > odds with conventional EE teaching but does not mean it is wrong
                      > > > > but
                      > > > > > that the current state of knowledge is incomplete and I would
                      > > never
                      > > > > be
                      > > > > > arrogant enough to say that we know it all already because we
                      > > are
                      > > > > all
                      > > > > > still learning.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Hi Russel,
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Thanks for the reply.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that's my
                      > > > > opinion
                      > > > > > > based on my own experimental observations.
                      > > > > > > We tend to believe what we read as fact but the fact is
                      > > people are
                      > > > > > > complicated and often lie for no apparent reason, only for
                      > > > > > > psychological and ego reasons.
                      > > > > > > If this poster is reading this, I ask for a simple picture of
                      > > the
                      > > > > > > unit for others to see his/her wonderful work and admire it.
                      > > > > Nothing
                      > > > > > > more.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary that my EE
                      > > background
                      > > > > > > couldn't account for, except what I posted.
                      > > > > > > Many people confuse the recoil effect with back EMF. To set
                      > > the
                      > > > > > > record straight, back emf or counter emf (cemf) is the power
                      > > > > induced
                      > > > > > > in the coil that is the opposite in polarity (opposes) the emf
                      > > > > > > (battery) voltage. This voltage is proportional to the speed
                      > > of
                      > > > > the
                      > > > > > > rotor and the reason motors don't speedup to infinite RPMs.
                      > > > > > > The speed stops increasing as soon as the emf voltage equals
                      > > the
                      > > > > cemf
                      > > > > > > produced by the motor (the curved voltage you see before
                      > > pulsing
                      > > > > the
                      > > > > > > stator). Increase the voltage and the motor speed up until the
                      > > > > cemf
                      > > > > > > is once again equal to the emf.
                      > > > > > > The recoil effect (or bucking) is the sharp surge of power
                      > > that is
                      > > > > > > produced as soon as the drive current to the coil stops. The
                      > > > > power in
                      > > > > > > this recoil in nothing special. I have studied it very
                      > > carefully
                      > > > > and
                      > > > > > > it's always the same. Input power minus the copper and other
                      > > > > losses.
                      > > > > > > This recoil effect mesmerizes people not properly trained. It
                      > > is
                      > > > > well
                      > > > > > > understood in EE and is the basis for switching power
                      > > supplies.
                      > > > > > > If the zero point energy, G-field or whatever one wants to
                      > > call
                      > > > > it,
                      > > > > > > existed in the recoil, why do we even need a rotor or even
                      > > magnets
                      > > > > > > for that matter? Why not just pulse a cored coil and redirect
                      > > the
                      > > > > > > bucking and use it?
                      > > > > > > There is nothing special there regardless of what Bedini and
                      > > > > others
                      > > > > > > say.
                      > > > > > > The reason I decided to build an Adams motor and not a Bedini
                      > > or
                      > > > > > > Muller, etc., is they are too complex to analyse properly.
                      > > There
                      > > > > are
                      > > > > > > transformation actions going on and it's easy to loose one's
                      > > way.
                      > > > > > > The thing I like about AM is that the generator and drive
                      > > section
                      > > > > are
                      > > > > > > separate and can be scrutinized independently or as close to
                      > > > > > > independently as possible.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > What I think is happening (and anyone can jump in) is that,
                      > > the
                      > > > > > > stator poles reverse themselves momentarily like Howard
                      > > Johnson
                      > > > > said
                      > > > > > > in his statement that under some conditions, "North will
                      > > attract
                      > > > > > > North and repel south and south poles will attract south
                      > > poles and
                      > > > > > > repeal north poles".
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of unusual things in
                      > > my
                      > > > > > > motor which I am currently studying. One is what I mentioned
                      > > in my
                      > > > > > > last post, the other is that when I look at the scope shot of
                      > > the
                      > > > > > > voltage from the gen coils (not under load) I see the positive
                      > > > > cycle
                      > > > > > > as 28 volts peak but the negative cycle is only 20 volts peak.
                      > > > > > > They should be the same but the magnet (mine is all north) is
                      > > > > > > inducing more voltage in coming in to register as opposed to
                      > > > > leaving
                      > > > > > > register.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > I would like to find an explanation other than the mumbo jumbo
                      > > > > stuff
                      > > > > > > one finds on the web.
                      > > > > > > Me thinks the magnets are the culprit. If there is any excess
                      > > > > energy,
                      > > > > > > it will have to come from the depletion of the electrons in
                      > > the
                      > > > > > > magnets. Sort of like rubbing electrons together.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > It's a well known fact that Atoms do decay, but it takes
                      > > billions
                      > > > > or
                      > > > > > > even hundreds of billions of years of our time. A proof of
                      > > that
                      > > > > would
                      > > > > > > be the existence of Uranium for example. If all mater on
                      > > earth was
                      > > > > > > created in stars elsewhere, why do we still have full fledged
                      > > > > Uranium
                      > > > > > > we can mine? Should that not have all been depleted billions
                      > > of
                      > > > > years
                      > > > > > > ago having a half life of only thousands of years?
                      > > > > > > Some other element decays to become Uranium and then lead and
                      > > > > > > eventually everything in the periodic table will decay
                      > > backwards
                      > > > > to
                      > > > > > > hydrogen and the whole thing (big bang) starts over again.
                      > > > > > > I don't believe in ether either. It was proven not to exist
                      > > back
                      > > > > in
                      > > > > > > the 60's when an experimental laser was pulsed to the moon and
                      > > > > back
                      > > > > > > and the return beam was analysed and found not to have
                      > > shifted at
                      > > > > > > all. If photons move in this medium like sound travels through
                      > > > > air or
                      > > > > > > waves travel through water, then there must have been a
                      > > > > > > shift/deflection in the beam since no medium is completely
                      > > > > > > homogeneous and stationary. Hence there would be ether wind
                      > > that
                      > > > > > > would affect the returned laser.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > That's my take on that and it keeps me sane.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Too bad Robert Adams and Bill Muller took their experiences to
                      > > > > grave
                      > > > > > > with them instead of sharing them with humanity.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Speaking of wind, this one has become a long-winded post.
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Regards,
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > Mark
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                      > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                      > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                      > > > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                      > > > > wrote:
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > Hi Mark,
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you
                      > > seen
                      > > > > > > Robert
                      > > > > > > > adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically
                      > > what
                      > > > > > > was
                      > > > > > > > posted about recently.
                      > > > > > > > It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery
                      > > > > coils
                      > > > > > > which
                      > > > > > > > when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can
                      > > deliver
                      > > > > > > very
                      > > > > > > > useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to
                      > > expand
                      > > > > to
                      > > > > > > do
                      > > > > > > > that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery
                      > > coils
                      > > > > at
                      > > > > > > 44.7
                      > > > > > > > degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45
                      > > degrees
                      > > > > but
                      > > > > > > Robert
                      > > > > > > > did not find this to be the best position. He used the
                      > > golden
                      > > > > > > ratio
                      > > > > > > > which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the
                      > > drive
                      > > > > > > coils
                      > > > > > > > and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had
                      > > > > > > things. The
                      > > > > > > > old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled
                      > > when
                      > > > > I
                      > > > > > > saw
                      > > > > > > > them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was
                      > > between
                      > > > > the
                      > > > > > > coil
                      > > > > > > > sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be
                      > > trying to
                      > > > > > > > duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get
                      > > some
                      > > > > time
                      > > > > > > to
                      > > > > > > > work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and
                      > > > > getting
                      > > > > > > more
                      > > > > > > > speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do
                      > > > > that
                      > > > > > > to.
                      > > > > > > > Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using
                      > > > > only 2
                      > > > > > > > coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
                      > > > > > > > simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed
                      > > to get
                      > > > > > > that to
                      > > > > > > > work myself even though I have seen the machines that he
                      > > did it
                      > > > > > > with. I
                      > > > > > > > have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how
                      > > they
                      > > > > > > worked
                      > > > > > > > but they are quite simple machines.
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > Hi all,
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section).
                      > > I
                      > > > > can't
                      > > > > > > claim
                      > > > > > > > > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but
                      > > I've
                      > > > > > > seen
                      > > > > > > > > something I can't account for.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal
                      > > > > only the
                      > > > > > > > > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest
                      > > of
                      > > > > rpm
                      > > > > > > change,
                      > > > > > > > > also when I short out the generators, I get the same
                      > > result.
                      > > > > > > > > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the
                      > > > > LEDs, I
                      > > > > > > don't
                      > > > > > > > > get half the rpm increase.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in
                      > > > > parallel
                      > > > > > > since I
                      > > > > > > > > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost
                      > > it to
                      > > > > > > 120 and
                      > > > > > > > > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what
                      > > happens.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder
                      > > > > connected
                      > > > > > > to a
                      > > > > > > > > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and
                      > > > > > > lead/lag of
                      > > > > > > > > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6
                      > > > > Amps.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%.
                      > > I've
                      > > > > > > gone as
                      > > > > > > > > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not
                      > > > > worth the
                      > > > > > > > > power cost.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no
                      > > > > > > expectation of
                      > > > > > > > > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these
                      > > > > pulse
                      > > > > > > motors.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
                      > > > > > > > > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > Thanks.
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > Regards,
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > > Mark
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • markmoridi
                      Hi Gava, Thanks for the vote of confidence. I was after free energy at the beginning. At this point, I ll settle for the unusual. I see a couple of strange
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 1, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment

                        Hi Gava,

                         

                        Thanks for the vote of confidence.

                         

                        I was after free energy at the beginning. At this point, I'll settle for the unusual.

                         

                        I see a couple of strange stuff in his mot/gen. Such as;

                        1-      Why is one side of the power sine wave more powerful than the other (Positive cycle 35v, neg cycle 23v).

                        2-      Why does the rotor speed up when I draw power from one cycle (positive) or short out the gens but not as much for the other side (Neg. cycle)?

                        I've got a gut feeling these two are related somehow.

                         

                        Here is some data from my setup.

                        Supply voltage: 40v

                        Pulse width: 25%

                        Recoil voltage: 1200v.

                        Max CEMF: 63v

                        Power input: 4000mW (4 W) measured with a current probe on a scope.

                        Power output: 100mW (0.1 W) +/- 5% Measured with a true RMS multimeter across a small 12v light bulb .

                        4 Gens in series open voltage: 40.8v

                        Ambient Temp: 21.1C (Fluke infrared thermometer +/- 0.1C)

                        Drive stator temp with gens fully loaded: 22.2C

                        Gen temp fully loaded: 21.8C

                         

                        No gens installed (just 2 drive stators)                       970 RPM

                         

                        No load on 4 gens installed                                        316.41 RPM

                        Stealing only the positive cycle from the gens           389.65 RPM                23% increase

                        Stealing only the negative cycle from the gens          348.63 RPM                10% increase

                        Shorting out the gens                                                  398.44 RPM                26% increase

                         

                        Can anyone explain why this is happening?

                        I need to answer this before I can move on to other experiments.

                        Come on guys, there is over 130 of you out there. Think man, think...

                         

                        Regards,

                         

                        Mark


                        --- In adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com, Russel Prier <russelp@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Tamas,
                        >
                        > Why dont you try building the Bedini schoolgirl motor to start with.
                        > Wind the bifilla coil with 24 gauge and 28 gauge wire and the timing
                        > will take care of itself. It is not as powerful a generator as an
                        > Adamsmotor but will be easier to get running and give you a good
                        > starting point to build your knowleedge and experience form. I am a
                        > machinist not skilled in electronics either.
                        >
                        > All the best Russ P.
                        >
                        >
                        > Gáva wrote:
                        > > Hi there!
                        > >
                        > > Well Russel your last comment was a bit mystical, wasn't it?
                        > >
                        > > Conversation at this mailing list wasn't so frequent and interesting
                        > > till now as I read this list few years ago.
                        > >
                        > > What I mean when Mark Moridi began to write it attracted my attention.
                        > > His previous technical descriptions and his last EM theoretical
                        > > explanation was so detailed and well stuctured I felt for a moment
                        > > that I could built a good motor myself. :) But unfortunately I know
                        > > that actually I cannot...
                        > >
                        > > I began to read about this "free energy" stuff on the internet seven
                        > > years ago. I found lot of materials but very few were useful
                        > > practically. As I am not an EE expert but one who is really interested
                        > > in fiddling with electronic devices I wanted to find kind of a "how to
                        > > build" thing. I' ve found a very good website (which was moved several
                        > > times by now) describing something like a "starter kit" for home
                        > > experimenting with Adams motors. It is called the "CD Adams motor".
                        > > Anyone can find it just type the phrase "CD Adams motor" into Google
                        > > and see.
                        > >
                        > > This thing is a very simple setup. The only coil is timed using a hall
                        > > IC. I tried to built it myself. Unfortunately timing is a crucial
                        > > feature of these kind of devices so it should have been built by very
                        > > strict geometrical proportions which I could not reproduce. I managed
                        > > to make it spin. I could play with the position of the hall IC for
                        > > timing. I don't have an oscilloscope, so I used a Windows program
                        > > called "Winscope" to picture what's happening in the circuit.
                        > > Unfortunately this program uses the sound card for AD conversion so
                        > > the result was very far from optimal. Unfortunately my motor did not
                        > > show the expected effect and I gave up.
                        > >
                        > > Most important that the author wrote this setup could be producing all
                        > > the "over unity" features that an Adams motor can do. No need for
                        > > separate drive and generator coils. The author gave an important hint
                        > > for simlpe checking whether the experimenter does things the right
                        > > way. If the transistor (or mosfet) was heating you got it wrong. If it
                        > > cooled you got it right. One can monitor this effect very simply by
                        > > putting his finger on the transistor. (I think you found out by now
                        > > that the transistor was heating in my motor.) The author wrote that
                        > > the cooling effect is a very important feature of the device. As I can
                        > > remember the explanation was at a different website (but now I don't
                        > > know where) and was that in "inverted" circuits when the coils are
                        > > pulsed in the right timing regiment at a critital timepoint
                        > > electromagnetic fields interacting between the coils and the magnets
                        > > (not NIB magnets just simple ceramic) are generating a small "time
                        > > reversal" effect. During this effect energy can flow in the opposite
                        > > way that entropy could normally let. So the device is drawing heat
                        > > from the environment which is converted to kinetic energy of the
                        > > mobile electrons. That's why the back current is higher than the input.
                        > >
                        > > According to this another outhors of the same group of the author of
                        > > the CD Adams motor site wrote at different sites that they could built
                        > > stationary generators. The most important components of this device
                        > > are the ceramic magnets coils and the pulsed current timed the right
                        > > way. So movement is not a crucial part of the "inverse" circuit's
                        > > operation.
                        > >
                        > > I have found another site that described a "Motionless Electromagnetic
                        > > Generator" abbreviated as "MEG". This site detailed the same physical
                        > > effect as above and added a new electronic part which was needed to
                        > > make a stationary over unity device work. This part was like a mosfet
                        > > but had a special feature. It could draw and pump the inversely
                        > > flowing "static" energy into the circuit by conveting it to regular
                        > > current.
                        > >
                        > > Well I think this must be the "inverter" which Russel was referring to.
                        > >
                        > > This was the time I gave up planning experiments by myself. I thought
                        > > this is not for regular people but only EE experts. I thought
                        > > University staff should be examining these interesting physical
                        > > phenomena and I did not understood why they keep aloof of these
                        > > things. I have two university degrees. One medical and another in
                        > > medical engineering. When attending the engineering courses (mostly
                        > > they were electrical oriented) I tried to talk to my teachers about
                        > > these phenomena but every time they began to act as they thougt I'm
                        > > not really mentally healthy some kind. I really do not understand why
                        > > they are so aversed of these things. There were days when most of the
                        > > peolpe thought that flying for human was impossible. There were few
                        > > who believed blindly that it is possible. There were most of the few
                        > > who were actually crazy and done really crazy things. But then again
                        > > there were few of the few who managed to figure out the way flying for
                        > > human is possible and they did it quite right inspite they did not
                        > > really understand the principles they are using in their machines.
                        > > They were only few renegates and now scientists explore and teach
                        > > these principles at Universities.
                        > >
                        > > I think today is the same about these "inverted" circuits. Now there
                        > > are just a few who recognize the importance and the future of these
                        > > phenomena but few years later they will be explored and teached at
                        > > Universities. The only thing you guys should do is to keep fiddling
                        > > keep promoting what you do and wait the time to be excepted widely.
                        > >
                        > > Oh and another important thing. Don't mystify the explanations. Keep
                        > > it clear and logical. Don't operate with too much unproven theories
                        > > and don't say "I believe". It is science not religion. You believe in
                        > > the church not in science. You have to use assumptions but you must'nt
                        > > say you believe or you are conserned about things that are'nt proven.
                        > >
                        > > I think Mark Moridi does it the right way and I am really excited
                        > > about what he will explore. I can't wait reading Mark's new findings.
                        > >
                        > > Go Mark!
                        > >
                        > > Best regards,
                        > >
                        > > Gava, Tamas
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message ----
                        > > From: Russel Prier russelp@...
                        > > To: adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:53:12 PM
                        > > Subject: Re: [SPAM][SPAM][SPAM]Re: [adamsmotor] Adams motor question
                        > >
                        > > Yes as I said this power out of these things is different and needs to
                        > > be processed in some way to make it work well in conventional machines.
                        > >
                        > > markmoridi wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi Russel,
                        > > > Thanks for the tips.
                        > > > What is an inverter? surely you don't mean and dc/ac inverter!
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks,
                        > > >
                        > > > Mark
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier russelp@ >
                        > > wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hi Mark,
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I cannot answer that question without doing it but connecting the
                        > > > coils
                        > > > > in series to give lots of inductance usually helps so that you
                        > > > store a
                        > > > > fair amount of charge in the coils before you breifly discharge
                        > > > them and
                        > > > > time the discharging very carefully as M said so as to give a
                        > > > positive
                        > > > > kick when that circuit is switched off. We have done similar
                        > > > things as
                        > > > > this in the bedini group but not timed as well as you would get
                        > > > with a
                        > > > > rotary encoder so as to be able to adjust and regulate things quite
                        > > > > accurately and quickly using a plc or coupter of some sort. Yes
                        > > > you can
                        > > > > charge caps and then discharge them so that you are charging or
                        > > > > discharging but not doing both at the same time. As this power is
                        > > > > slightly different fron your normal DC John Bedini has said it will
                        > > > > probably work better if you put it through an inverter then rectify
                        > > > it
                        > > > > into DC and use it but I dont know If RA did things this way. His
                        > > > > machines self powered fine and poured out energy continuously
                        > > > without
                        > > > > any input once they were running.
                        > > > > There are some trick to be learned along the way and some of these
                        > > > have
                        > > > > been lost unfortunately.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Hi Russel,
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I agree with most of what you say. I am not arrogant, just
                        > > > cautious
                        > > > > > and want proof and I am willing to do the work to get it. I need
                        > > > to
                        > > > > > see this "more energy out than in" for myself.
                        > > > > > As far as what you said about the atoms and energy, I am of the
                        > > > > > opinion that anything is possible. This universe could all be a
                        > > > dream
                        > > > > > of someone, or could be an atom in some one's poo too! This sort
                        > > > of
                        > > > > > philosophical pondering has no practical use to me and makes me
                        > > > > > crazy. So I try not to think about it. My father spent most of his
                        > > > > > life on philosophy and practicing medicine and told me in his last
                        > > > > > years that he ended up with more questions than answers. I want to
                        > > > > > find out once and for all if I can cheat mother nature or not.
                        > > > Period.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I don't care if this new energy can not be seen by a scope or any
                        > > > > > meter, as long as it can manifest itself in some form that I can
                        > > > > > measure and use. Heat would be good enough for me. Electrical
                        > > > would
                        > > > > > be ideal.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Anyways, I have built and installed 2 new generators today. The
                        > > > first
                        > > > > > ones where 30 AWG wire and gave me plenty of voltage but not
                        > > > enough
                        > > > > > current. These new ones are 22 gauge and I'll post pictures when I
                        > > > > > have all 4 installed.
                        > > > > > The speedup is even more noticeable now. Close to 100 RPMs
                        > > > difference
                        > > > > > between unloaded and dead shorted. My machine runs at 600 RPM at
                        > > > 38
                        > > > > > volts. If it was a 5-6" rotor, I suspect I would get around 2500-
                        > > > 3000
                        > > > > > RPM. I can't wait to finish putting the gens in and take it up to
                        > > > > > 120v.
                        > > > > > I will build 2 more gens tomorrow and hook them up and see what
                        > > > > > happens.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Russel, would it not be logical that if I ganged these gens in
                        > > > series
                        > > > > > and tune up the machine to get the best power from the gens, that
                        > > > I
                        > > > > > could filter to DC using a full bridge and low ESR caps and feed
                        > > > > > this power back to the main battery banks? I am getting 24 volts
                        > > > with
                        > > > > > these 2 in series. 2 more should give me 48 volts total which
                        > > > would
                        > > > > > be plenty to recharge the main batteries.
                        > > > > > Would this not close the loop and self run if there is more output
                        > > > > > than input? would it be more complicated than this?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I am using 3 NiMH banks each 12v/10Ah. In your opinion, would this
                        > > > > > sort of energy be able to charge these batteries or do I need to
                        > > > work
                        > > > > > with LA batteries?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > How would I know if I have more energy out than in if I can't
                        > > > measure
                        > > > > > it?
                        > > > > > Is thermally the only way?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Thanks
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                        > > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                        > > > wrote:
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > Hi Mark,
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > What you have built is half an early Adams motor. What
                        > > > Maimariati
                        > > > > > built
                        > > > > > > was the whole of the early Adams motor design so without the
                        > > > other
                        > > > > > coils
                        > > > > > > you cannot pronounce a judgement on what is happening until you
                        > > > > > have
                        > > > > > > proved it. In the Bedini groups I have been in we had a number
                        > > > of
                        > > > > > EEs
                        > > > > > > who all started like you and took months to get to look with an
                        > > > > > open
                        > > > > > > mind at what was happening but when they got it became the most
                        > > > > > > enthusiastic of our members. The extra energy that does turn up
                        > > > in
                        > > > > > > these machines is gated through the magnets not sourced from the
                        > > > > > magnets
                        > > > > > > but just gated by them. We live in a sea of energy an atom is
                        > > > not
                        > > > > > a
                        > > > > > > perpetual motion machine but recieves a constant input of energy
                        > > > > > from an
                        > > > > > > outside source as does all matter in the universe. In fact all
                        > > > > > matter is
                        > > > > > > just energy, take away the energy and you have no matter. Are
                        > > > > > you
                        > > > > > > familar with Tom Beardons work in this area?
                        > > > > > > If you think M's results are BS they are nothing compred to the
                        > > > > > later
                        > > > > > > generation of machine the RA built before he died. The energy
                        > > > you
                        > > > > > are
                        > > > > > > looking at is AC or DC but what we get is not AC or DC but like
                        > > > > > Static
                        > > > > > > and RF energy which is converted in a capacitor to give dc like
                        > > > > > energy.
                        > > > > > > It cannot be read on meters as RA commented many times, but will
                        > > > > > > perform work which can be measured calorifically ie. in the time
                        > > > > > it
                        > > > > > > takes to heat a certain amount of water to a certain remperature
                        > > > > > and is
                        > > > > > > not an allusion but real energy that wont even appear on
                        > > > > > conventional
                        > > > > > > meters which are based on ohms law which does not apply to this
                        > > > > > sort of
                        > > > > > > energy. Negative energy is the opposite of positive and all the
                        > > > > > rules
                        > > > > > > are different. We are not talking about plus and minus valtage
                        > > > but
                        > > > > > an
                        > > > > > > opposite type of electrical energy they have never taught in
                        > > > > > learning
                        > > > > > > institutions. If you insist on sticking to what you were taught
                        > > > in
                        > > > > > Uni
                        > > > > > > you will never ever get it as you have to look beyond that
                        > > > limited
                        > > > > > > stuff. Tesla well understood this energy but the educational
                        > > > > > > institutions were not allowed to teach it from the early part of
                        > > > > > last
                        > > > > > > century because Rockerfella and J P morgan knew there was no
                        > > > future
                        > > > > > for
                        > > > > > > there oil empires if this stuff got out there and rockerfella
                        > > > got
                        > > > > > > control of the educational institutions very early on. You can
                        > > > see
                        > > > > > that
                        > > > > > > if you look at the biased way medical science has gone or
                        > > > > > electrical
                        > > > > > > science has missed so much of what was known and subsequentially
                        > > > > > lost by
                        > > > > > > being riddiculed marginalised etc. Johnson could measure when he
                        > > > > > pulsed
                        > > > > > > magnets in a certain way that they delivered pulses 200 times
                        > > > > > greater
                        > > > > > > than there base strength and belived they could deliver pulses a
                        > > > > > 1000
                        > > > > > > times greater and RA had proved the same thing himself. We have
                        > > > > > filing
                        > > > > > > cabinets full of his papers and experimental work and much of
                        > > > it is
                        > > > > > at
                        > > > > > > odds with conventional EE teaching but does not mean it is wrong
                        > > > > > but
                        > > > > > > that the current state of knowledge is incomplete and I would
                        > > > never
                        > > > > > be
                        > > > > > > arrogant enough to say that we know it all already because we
                        > > > are
                        > > > > > all
                        > > > > > > still learning.
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Hi Russel,
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Thanks for the reply.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that's my
                        > > > > > opinion
                        > > > > > > > based on my own experimental observations.
                        > > > > > > > We tend to believe what we read as fact but the fact is
                        > > > people are
                        > > > > > > > complicated and often lie for no apparent reason, only for
                        > > > > > > > psychological and ego reasons.
                        > > > > > > > If this poster is reading this, I ask for a simple picture of
                        > > > the
                        > > > > > > > unit for others to see his/her wonderful work and admire it.
                        > > > > > Nothing
                        > > > > > > > more.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary that my EE
                        > > > background
                        > > > > > > > couldn't account for, except what I posted.
                        > > > > > > > Many people confuse the recoil effect with back EMF. To set
                        > > > the
                        > > > > > > > record straight, back emf or counter emf (cemf) is the power
                        > > > > > induced
                        > > > > > > > in the coil that is the opposite in polarity (opposes) the emf
                        > > > > > > > (battery) voltage. This voltage is proportional to the speed
                        > > > of
                        > > > > > the
                        > > > > > > > rotor and the reason motors don't speedup to infinite RPMs.
                        > > > > > > > The speed stops increasing as soon as the emf voltage equals
                        > > > the
                        > > > > > cemf
                        > > > > > > > produced by the motor (the curved voltage you see before
                        > > > pulsing
                        > > > > > the
                        > > > > > > > stator). Increase the voltage and the motor speed up until the
                        > > > > > cemf
                        > > > > > > > is once again equal to the emf.
                        > > > > > > > The recoil effect (or bucking) is the sharp surge of power
                        > > > that is
                        > > > > > > > produced as soon as the drive current to the coil stops. The
                        > > > > > power in
                        > > > > > > > this recoil in nothing special. I have studied it very
                        > > > carefully
                        > > > > > and
                        > > > > > > > it's always the same. Input power minus the copper and other
                        > > > > > losses.
                        > > > > > > > This recoil effect mesmerizes people not properly trained. It
                        > > > is
                        > > > > > well
                        > > > > > > > understood in EE and is the basis for switching power
                        > > > supplies.
                        > > > > > > > If the zero point energy, G-field or whatever one wants to
                        > > > call
                        > > > > > it,
                        > > > > > > > existed in the recoil, why do we even need a rotor or even
                        > > > magnets
                        > > > > > > > for that matter? Why not just pulse a cored coil and redirect
                        > > > the
                        > > > > > > > bucking and use it?
                        > > > > > > > There is nothing special there regardless of what Bedini and
                        > > > > > others
                        > > > > > > > say.
                        > > > > > > > The reason I decided to build an Adams motor and not a Bedini
                        > > > or
                        > > > > > > > Muller, etc., is they are too complex to analyse properly.
                        > > > There
                        > > > > > are
                        > > > > > > > transformation actions going on and it's easy to loose one's
                        > > > way.
                        > > > > > > > The thing I like about AM is that the generator and drive
                        > > > section
                        > > > > > are
                        > > > > > > > separate and can be scrutinized independently or as close to
                        > > > > > > > independently as possible.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > What I think is happening (and anyone can jump in) is that,
                        > > > the
                        > > > > > > > stator poles reverse themselves momentarily like Howard
                        > > > Johnson
                        > > > > > said
                        > > > > > > > in his statement that under some conditions, "North will
                        > > > attract
                        > > > > > > > North and repel south and south poles will attract south
                        > > > poles and
                        > > > > > > > repeal north poles".
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of unusual things in
                        > > > my
                        > > > > > > > motor which I am currently studying. One is what I mentioned
                        > > > in my
                        > > > > > > > last post, the other is that when I look at the scope shot of
                        > > > the
                        > > > > > > > voltage from the gen coils (not under load) I see the positive
                        > > > > > cycle
                        > > > > > > > as 28 volts peak but the negative cycle is only 20 volts peak.
                        > > > > > > > They should be the same but the magnet (mine is all north) is
                        > > > > > > > inducing more voltage in coming in to register as opposed to
                        > > > > > leaving
                        > > > > > > > register.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > I would like to find an explanation other than the mumbo jumbo
                        > > > > > stuff
                        > > > > > > > one finds on the web.
                        > > > > > > > Me thinks the magnets are the culprit. If there is any excess
                        > > > > > energy,
                        > > > > > > > it will have to come from the depletion of the electrons in
                        > > > the
                        > > > > > > > magnets. Sort of like rubbing electrons together.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > It's a well known fact that Atoms do decay, but it takes
                        > > > billions
                        > > > > > or
                        > > > > > > > even hundreds of billions of years of our time. A proof of
                        > > > that
                        > > > > > would
                        > > > > > > > be the existence of Uranium for example. If all mater on
                        > > > earth was
                        > > > > > > > created in stars elsewhere, why do we still have full fledged
                        > > > > > Uranium
                        > > > > > > > we can mine? Should that not have all been depleted billions
                        > > > of
                        > > > > > years
                        > > > > > > > ago having a half life of only thousands of years?
                        > > > > > > > Some other element decays to become Uranium and then lead and
                        > > > > > > > eventually everything in the periodic table will decay
                        > > > backwards
                        > > > > > to
                        > > > > > > > hydrogen and the whole thing (big bang) starts over again.
                        > > > > > > > I don't believe in ether either. It was proven not to exist
                        > > > back
                        > > > > > in
                        > > > > > > > the 60's when an experimental laser was pulsed to the moon and
                        > > > > > back
                        > > > > > > > and the return beam was analysed and found not to have
                        > > > shifted at
                        > > > > > > > all. If photons move in this medium like sound travels through
                        > > > > > air or
                        > > > > > > > waves travel through water, then there must have been a
                        > > > > > > > shift/deflection in the beam since no medium is completely
                        > > > > > > > homogeneous and stationary. Hence there would be ether wind
                        > > > that
                        > > > > > > > would affect the returned laser.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > That's my take on that and it keeps me sane.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Too bad Robert Adams and Bill Muller took their experiences to
                        > > > > > grave
                        > > > > > > > with them instead of sharing them with humanity.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Speaking of wind, this one has become a long-winded post.
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Regards,
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > Mark
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                        > > <mailto:adamsmotor%40yahoogroups.com>
                        > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                        > > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                        > > > > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                        > > > > > wrote:
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > Hi Mark,
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you
                        > > > seen
                        > > > > > > > Robert
                        > > > > > > > > adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically
                        > > > what
                        > > > > > > > was
                        > > > > > > > > posted about recently.
                        > > > > > > > > It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery
                        > > > > > coils
                        > > > > > > > which
                        > > > > > > > > when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can
                        > > > deliver
                        > > > > > > > very
                        > > > > > > > > useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to
                        > > > expand
                        > > > > > to
                        > > > > > > > do
                        > > > > > > > > that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery
                        > > > coils
                        > > > > > at
                        > > > > > > > 44.7
                        > > > > > > > > degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45
                        > > > degrees
                        > > > > > but
                        > > > > > > > Robert
                        > > > > > > > > did not find this to be the best position. He used the
                        > > > golden
                        > > > > > > > ratio
                        > > > > > > > > which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the
                        > > > drive
                        > > > > > > > coils
                        > > > > > > > > and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had
                        > > > > > > > things. The
                        > > > > > > > > old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled
                        > > > when
                        > > > > > I
                        > > > > > > > saw
                        > > > > > > > > them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was
                        > > > between
                        > > > > > the
                        > > > > > > > coil
                        > > > > > > > > sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be
                        > > > trying to
                        > > > > > > > > duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get
                        > > > some
                        > > > > > time
                        > > > > > > > to
                        > > > > > > > > work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and
                        > > > > > getting
                        > > > > > > > more
                        > > > > > > > > speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do
                        > > > > > that
                        > > > > > > > to.
                        > > > > > > > > Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using
                        > > > > > only 2
                        > > > > > > > > coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
                        > > > > > > > > simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed
                        > > > to get
                        > > > > > > > that to
                        > > > > > > > > work myself even though I have seen the machines that he
                        > > > did it
                        > > > > > > > with. I
                        > > > > > > > > have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how
                        > > > they
                        > > > > > > > worked
                        > > > > > > > > but they are quite simple machines.
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section).
                        > > > I
                        > > > > > can't
                        > > > > > > > claim
                        > > > > > > > > > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but
                        > > > I've
                        > > > > > > > seen
                        > > > > > > > > > something I can't account for.
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal
                        > > > > > only the
                        > > > > > > > > > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest
                        > > > of
                        > > > > > rpm
                        > > > > > > > change,
                        > > > > > > > > > also when I short out the generators, I get the same
                        > > > result.
                        > > > > > > > > > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the
                        > > > > > LEDs, I
                        > > > > > > > don't
                        > > > > > > > > > get half the rpm increase.
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in
                        > > > > > parallel
                        > > > > > > > since I
                        > > > > > > > > > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost
                        > > > it to
                        > > > > > > > 120 and
                        > > > > > > > > > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what
                        > > > happens.
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder
                        > > > > > connected
                        > > > > > > > to a
                        > > > > > > > > > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and
                        > > > > > > > lead/lag of
                        > > > > > > > > > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6
                        > > > > > Amps.
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%.
                        > > > I've
                        > > > > > > > gone as
                        > > > > > > > > > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not
                        > > > > > worth the
                        > > > > > > > > > power cost.
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no
                        > > > > > > > expectation of
                        > > > > > > > > > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these
                        > > > > > pulse
                        > > > > > > > motors.
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
                        > > > > > > > > > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > Thanks.
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > Regards,
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > > Mark
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > > >
                        > > > > > >
                        > > > > >
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                        >
                      • Gáva, Tamás
                        Dear Russel, Thank you for the hint. I will start to search some material on the internet about this motor. Maybe I will be lucky this time... :) Best regards,
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 2, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Dear Russel,

                          Thank you for the hint.

                          I will start to search some material on the internet about this motor.

                          Maybe I will be lucky this time... :)

                          Best regards,

                          Gava, Tamas

                          ----- Original Message ----
                          From: Russel Prier <russelp@...>
                          To: adamsmotor@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 10:51:59 PM
                          Subject: Re: [SPAM]Re: [SPAM][SPAM][SPAM]Re: [adamsmotor] Adams motor question

                          Hi Tamas,

                          Why dont you try building the Bedini schoolgirl motor to start with.
                          Wind the bifilla coil with 24 gauge and 28 gauge wire and the timing
                          will take care of itself. It is not as powerful a generator as an
                          Adamsmotor but will be easier to get running and give you a good
                          starting point to build your knowleedge and experience form. I am a
                          machinist not skilled in electronics either.

                          All the best Russ P.

                          Gáva wrote:

                          > Hi there!
                          >
                          > Well Russel your last comment was a bit mystical, wasn't it?
                          >
                          > Conversation at this mailing list wasn't so frequent and interesting
                          > till now as I read this list few years ago.
                          >
                          > What I mean when Mark Moridi began to write it attracted my attention.
                          > His previous technical descriptions and his last EM theoretical
                          > explanation was so detailed and well stuctured I felt for a moment
                          > that I could built a good motor myself. :) But unfortunately I know
                          > that actually I cannot...
                          >
                          > I began to read about this "free energy" stuff on the internet seven
                          > years ago. I found lot of materials but very few were useful
                          > practically. As I am not an EE expert but one who is really interested
                          > in fiddling with electronic devices I wanted to find kind of a "how to
                          > build" thing. I' ve found a very good website (which was moved several
                          > times by now) describing something like a "starter kit" for home
                          > experimenting with Adams motors. It is called the "CD Adams motor".
                          > Anyone can find it just type the phrase "CD Adams motor" into Google
                          > and see.
                          >
                          > This thing is a very simple setup. The only coil is timed using a hall
                          > IC. I tried to built it myself. Unfortunately timing is a crucial
                          > feature of these kind of devices so it should have been built by very
                          > strict geometrical proportions which I could not reproduce. I managed
                          > to make it spin. I could play with the position of the hall IC for
                          > timing. I don't have an oscilloscope, so I used a Windows program
                          > called "Winscope" to picture what's happening in the circuit.
                          > Unfortunately this program uses the sound card for AD conversion so
                          > the result was very far from optimal. Unfortunately my motor did not
                          > show the expected effect and I gave up.
                          >
                          > Most important that the author wrote this setup could be producing all
                          > the "over unity" features that an Adams motor can do. No need for
                          > separate drive and generator coils. The author gave an important hint
                          > for simlpe checking whether the experimenter does things the right
                          > way. If the transistor (or mosfet) was heating you got it wrong. If it
                          > cooled you got it right. One can monitor this effect very simply by
                          > putting his finger on the transistor. (I think you found out by now
                          > that the transistor was heating in my motor.) The author wrote that
                          > the cooling effect is a very important feature of the device. As I can
                          > remember the explanation was at a different website (but now I don't
                          > know where) and was that in "inverted" circuits when the coils are
                          > pulsed in the right timing regiment at a critital timepoint
                          > electromagnetic fields interacting between the coils and the magnets
                          > (not NIB magnets just simple ceramic) are generating a small "time
                          > reversal" effect. During this effect energy can flow in the opposite
                          > way that entropy could normally let. So the device is drawing heat
                          > from the environment which is converted to kinetic energy of the
                          > mobile electrons. That's why the back current is higher than the input.
                          >
                          > According to this another outhors of the same group of the author of
                          > the CD Adams motor site wrote at different sites that they could built
                          > stationary generators. The most important components of this device
                          > are the ceramic magnets coils and the pulsed current timed the right
                          > way. So movement is not a crucial part of the "inverse" circuit's
                          > operation.
                          >
                          > I have found another site that described a "Motionless Electromagnetic
                          > Generator" abbreviated as "MEG". This site detailed the same physical
                          > effect as above and added a new electronic part which was needed to
                          > make a stationary over unity device work. This part was like a mosfet
                          > but had a special feature. It could draw and pump the inversely
                          > flowing "static" energy into the circuit by conveting it to regular
                          > current.
                          >
                          > Well I think this must be the "inverter" which Russel was referring to.
                          >
                          > This was the time I gave up planning experiments by myself. I thought
                          > this is not for regular people but only EE experts. I thought
                          > University staff should be examining these interesting physical
                          > phenomena and I did not understood why they keep aloof of these
                          > things. I have two university degrees. One medical and another in
                          > medical engineering. When attending the engineering courses (mostly
                          > they were electrical oriented) I tried to talk to my teachers about
                          > these phenomena but every time they began to act as they thougt I'm
                          > not really mentally healthy some kind. I really do not understand why
                          > they are so aversed of these things. There were days when most of the
                          > peolpe thought that flying for human was impossible. There were few
                          > who believed blindly that it is possible. There were most of the few
                          > who were actually crazy and done really crazy things. But then again
                          > there were few of the few who managed to figure out the way flying for
                          > human is possible and they did it quite right inspite they did not
                          > really understand the principles they are using in their machines.
                          > They were only few renegates and now scientists explore and teach
                          > these principles at Universities.
                          >
                          > I think today is the same about these "inverted" circuits. Now there
                          > are just a few who recognize the importance and the future of these
                          > phenomena but few years later they will be explored and teached at
                          > Universities. The only thing you guys should do is to keep fiddling
                          > keep promoting what you do and wait the time to be excepted widely.
                          >
                          > Oh and another important thing. Don't mystify the explanations. Keep
                          > it clear and logical. Don't operate with too much unproven theories
                          > and don't say "I believe". It is science not religion. You believe in
                          > the church not in science. You have to use assumptions but you must'nt
                          > say you believe or you are conserned about things that are'nt proven.
                          >
                          > I think Mark Moridi does it the right way and I am really excited
                          > about what he will explore. I can't wait reading Mark's new findings.
                          >
                          > Go Mark!
                          >
                          > Best regards,
                          >
                          > Gava, Tamas
                          >
                          >
                          > ----- Original Message ----
                          > From: Russel Prier <russelp@clear. net.nz>
                          > To: adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 9:53:12 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [SPAM][SPAM] [SPAM]Re: [adamsmotor] Adams motor question
                          >
                          > Yes as I said this power out of these things is different and needs to
                          > be processed in some way to make it work well in conventional machines.
                          >
                          > markmoridi wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hi Russel,
                          > > Thanks for the tips.
                          > > What is an inverter? surely you don't mean and dc/ac inverter!
                          > >
                          > > Thanks,
                          > >
                          > > Mark
                          > >
                          > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                          > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                          > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@... >
                          > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi Mark,
                          > > >
                          > > > I cannot answer that question without doing it but connecting the
                          > > coils
                          > > > in series to give lots of inductance usually helps so that you
                          > > store a
                          > > > fair amount of charge in the coils before you breifly discharge
                          > > them and
                          > > > time the discharging very carefully as M said so as to give a
                          > > positive
                          > > > kick when that circuit is switched off. We have done similar
                          > > things as
                          > > > this in the bedini group but not timed as well as you would get
                          > > with a
                          > > > rotary encoder so as to be able to adjust and regulate things quite
                          > > > accurately and quickly using a plc or coupter of some sort. Yes
                          > > you can
                          > > > charge caps and then discharge them so that you are charging or
                          > > > discharging but not doing both at the same time. As this power is
                          > > > slightly different fron your normal DC John Bedini has said it will
                          > > > probably work better if you put it through an inverter then rectify
                          > > it
                          > > > into DC and use it but I dont know If RA did things this way. His
                          > > > machines self powered fine and poured out energy continuously
                          > > without
                          > > > any input once they were running.
                          > > > There are some trick to be learned along the way and some of these
                          > > have
                          > > > been lost unfortunately.
                          > > >
                          > > > markmoridi wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Hi Russel,
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I agree with most of what you say. I am not arrogant, just
                          > > cautious
                          > > > > and want proof and I am willing to do the work to get it. I need
                          > > to
                          > > > > see this "more energy out than in" for myself.
                          > > > > As far as what you said about the atoms and energy, I am of the
                          > > > > opinion that anything is possible. This universe could all be a
                          > > dream
                          > > > > of someone, or could be an atom in some one's poo too! This sort
                          > > of
                          > > > > philosophical pondering has no practical use to me and makes me
                          > > > > crazy. So I try not to think about it. My father spent most of his
                          > > > > life on philosophy and practicing medicine and told me in his last
                          > > > > years that he ended up with more questions than answers. I want to
                          > > > > find out once and for all if I can cheat mother nature or not.
                          > > Period.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I don't care if this new energy can not be seen by a scope or any
                          > > > > meter, as long as it can manifest itself in some form that I can
                          > > > > measure and use. Heat would be good enough for me. Electrical
                          > > would
                          > > > > be ideal.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Anyways, I have built and installed 2 new generators today. The
                          > > first
                          > > > > ones where 30 AWG wire and gave me plenty of voltage but not
                          > > enough
                          > > > > current. These new ones are 22 gauge and I'll post pictures when I
                          > > > > have all 4 installed.
                          > > > > The speedup is even more noticeable now. Close to 100 RPMs
                          > > difference
                          > > > > between unloaded and dead shorted. My machine runs at 600 RPM at
                          > > 38
                          > > > > volts. If it was a 5-6" rotor, I suspect I would get around 2500-
                          > > 3000
                          > > > > RPM. I can't wait to finish putting the gens in and take it up to
                          > > > > 120v.
                          > > > > I will build 2 more gens tomorrow and hook them up and see what
                          > > > > happens.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Russel, would it not be logical that if I ganged these gens in
                          > > series
                          > > > > and tune up the machine to get the best power from the gens, that
                          > > I
                          > > > > could filter to DC using a full bridge and low ESR caps and feed
                          > > > > this power back to the main battery banks? I am getting 24 volts
                          > > with
                          > > > > these 2 in series. 2 more should give me 48 volts total which
                          > > would
                          > > > > be plenty to recharge the main batteries.
                          > > > > Would this not close the loop and self run if there is more output
                          > > > > than input? would it be more complicated than this?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I am using 3 NiMH banks each 12v/10Ah. In your opinion, would this
                          > > > > sort of energy be able to charge these batteries or do I need to
                          > > work
                          > > > > with LA batteries?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > How would I know if I have more energy out than in if I can't
                          > > measure
                          > > > > it?
                          > > > > Is thermally the only way?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Thanks
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                          > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                          > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                          > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Hi Mark,
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > What you have built is half an early Adams motor. What
                          > > Maimariati
                          > > > > built
                          > > > > > was the whole of the early Adams motor design so without the
                          > > other
                          > > > > coils
                          > > > > > you cannot pronounce a judgement on what is happening until you
                          > > > > have
                          > > > > > proved it. In the Bedini groups I have been in we had a number
                          > > of
                          > > > > EEs
                          > > > > > who all started like you and took months to get to look with an
                          > > > > open
                          > > > > > mind at what was happening but when they got it became the most
                          > > > > > enthusiastic of our members. The extra energy that does turn up
                          > > in
                          > > > > > these machines is gated through the magnets not sourced from the
                          > > > > magnets
                          > > > > > but just gated by them. We live in a sea of energy an atom is
                          > > not
                          > > > > a
                          > > > > > perpetual motion machine but recieves a constant input of energy
                          > > > > from an
                          > > > > > outside source as does all matter in the universe. In fact all
                          > > > > matter is
                          > > > > > just energy, take away the energy and you have no matter. Are
                          > > > > you
                          > > > > > familar with Tom Beardons work in this area?
                          > > > > > If you think M's results are BS they are nothing compred to the
                          > > > > later
                          > > > > > generation of machine the RA built before he died. The energy
                          > > you
                          > > > > are
                          > > > > > looking at is AC or DC but what we get is not AC or DC but like
                          > > > > Static
                          > > > > > and RF energy which is converted in a capacitor to give dc like
                          > > > > energy.
                          > > > > > It cannot be read on meters as RA commented many times, but will
                          > > > > > perform work which can be measured calorifically ie. in the time
                          > > > > it
                          > > > > > takes to heat a certain amount of water to a certain remperature
                          > > > > and is
                          > > > > > not an allusion but real energy that wont even appear on
                          > > > > conventional
                          > > > > > meters which are based on ohms law which does not apply to this
                          > > > > sort of
                          > > > > > energy. Negative energy is the opposite of positive and all the
                          > > > > rules
                          > > > > > are different. We are not talking about plus and minus valtage
                          > > but
                          > > > > an
                          > > > > > opposite type of electrical energy they have never taught in
                          > > > > learning
                          > > > > > institutions. If you insist on sticking to what you were taught
                          > > in
                          > > > > Uni
                          > > > > > you will never ever get it as you have to look beyond that
                          > > limited
                          > > > > > stuff. Tesla well understood this energy but the educational
                          > > > > > institutions were not allowed to teach it from the early part of
                          > > > > last
                          > > > > > century because Rockerfella and J P morgan knew there was no
                          > > future
                          > > > > for
                          > > > > > there oil empires if this stuff got out there and rockerfella
                          > > got
                          > > > > > control of the educational institutions very early on. You can
                          > > see
                          > > > > that
                          > > > > > if you look at the biased way medical science has gone or
                          > > > > electrical
                          > > > > > science has missed so much of what was known and subsequentially
                          > > > > lost by
                          > > > > > being riddiculed marginalised etc. Johnson could measure when he
                          > > > > pulsed
                          > > > > > magnets in a certain way that they delivered pulses 200 times
                          > > > > greater
                          > > > > > than there base strength and belived they could deliver pulses a
                          > > > > 1000
                          > > > > > times greater and RA had proved the same thing himself. We have
                          > > > > filing
                          > > > > > cabinets full of his papers and experimental work and much of
                          > > it is
                          > > > > at
                          > > > > > odds with conventional EE teaching but does not mean it is wrong
                          > > > > but
                          > > > > > that the current state of knowledge is incomplete and I would
                          > > never
                          > > > > be
                          > > > > > arrogant enough to say that we know it all already because we
                          > > are
                          > > > > all
                          > > > > > still learning.
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Hi Russel,
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Thanks for the reply.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Me thinks the last post by Maimariati was BS. Well that's my
                          > > > > opinion
                          > > > > > > based on my own experimental observations.
                          > > > > > > We tend to believe what we read as fact but the fact is
                          > > people are
                          > > > > > > complicated and often lie for no apparent reason, only for
                          > > > > > > psychological and ego reasons.
                          > > > > > > If this poster is reading this, I ask for a simple picture of
                          > > the
                          > > > > > > unit for others to see his/her wonderful work and admire it.
                          > > > > Nothing
                          > > > > > > more.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary that my EE
                          > > background
                          > > > > > > couldn't account for, except what I posted.
                          > > > > > > Many people confuse the recoil effect with back EMF. To set
                          > > the
                          > > > > > > record straight, back emf or counter emf (cemf) is the power
                          > > > > induced
                          > > > > > > in the coil that is the opposite in polarity (opposes) the emf
                          > > > > > > (battery) voltage. This voltage is proportional to the speed
                          > > of
                          > > > > the
                          > > > > > > rotor and the reason motors don't speedup to infinite RPMs.
                          > > > > > > The speed stops increasing as soon as the emf voltage equals
                          > > the
                          > > > > cemf
                          > > > > > > produced by the motor (the curved voltage you see before
                          > > pulsing
                          > > > > the
                          > > > > > > stator). Increase the voltage and the motor speed up until the
                          > > > > cemf
                          > > > > > > is once again equal to the emf.
                          > > > > > > The recoil effect (or bucking) is the sharp surge of power
                          > > that is
                          > > > > > > produced as soon as the drive current to the coil stops. The
                          > > > > power in
                          > > > > > > this recoil in nothing special. I have studied it very
                          > > carefully
                          > > > > and
                          > > > > > > it's always the same. Input power minus the copper and other
                          > > > > losses.
                          > > > > > > This recoil effect mesmerizes people not properly trained. It
                          > > is
                          > > > > well
                          > > > > > > understood in EE and is the basis for switching power
                          > > supplies.
                          > > > > > > If the zero point energy, G-field or whatever one wants to
                          > > call
                          > > > > it,
                          > > > > > > existed in the recoil, why do we even need a rotor or even
                          > > magnets
                          > > > > > > for that matter? Why not just pulse a cored coil and redirect
                          > > the
                          > > > > > > bucking and use it?
                          > > > > > > There is nothing special there regardless of what Bedini and
                          > > > > others
                          > > > > > > say.
                          > > > > > > The reason I decided to build an Adams motor and not a Bedini
                          > > or
                          > > > > > > Muller, etc., is they are too complex to analyse properly.
                          > > There
                          > > > > are
                          > > > > > > transformation actions going on and it's easy to loose one's
                          > > way.
                          > > > > > > The thing I like about AM is that the generator and drive
                          > > section
                          > > > > are
                          > > > > > > separate and can be scrutinized independently or as close to
                          > > > > > > independently as possible.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > What I think is happening (and anyone can jump in) is that,
                          > > the
                          > > > > > > stator poles reverse themselves momentarily like Howard
                          > > Johnson
                          > > > > said
                          > > > > > > in his statement that under some conditions, "North will
                          > > attract
                          > > > > > > North and repel south and south poles will attract south
                          > > poles and
                          > > > > > > repeal north poles".
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Don't get me wrong, I have seen a couple of unusual things in
                          > > my
                          > > > > > > motor which I am currently studying. One is what I mentioned
                          > > in my
                          > > > > > > last post, the other is that when I look at the scope shot of
                          > > the
                          > > > > > > voltage from the gen coils (not under load) I see the positive
                          > > > > cycle
                          > > > > > > as 28 volts peak but the negative cycle is only 20 volts peak.
                          > > > > > > They should be the same but the magnet (mine is all north) is
                          > > > > > > inducing more voltage in coming in to register as opposed to
                          > > > > leaving
                          > > > > > > register.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I would like to find an explanation other than the mumbo jumbo
                          > > > > stuff
                          > > > > > > one finds on the web.
                          > > > > > > Me thinks the magnets are the culprit. If there is any excess
                          > > > > energy,
                          > > > > > > it will have to come from the depletion of the electrons in
                          > > the
                          > > > > > > magnets. Sort of like rubbing electrons together.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > It's a well known fact that Atoms do decay, but it takes
                          > > billions
                          > > > > or
                          > > > > > > even hundreds of billions of years of our time. A proof of
                          > > that
                          > > > > would
                          > > > > > > be the existence of Uranium for example. If all mater on
                          > > earth was
                          > > > > > > created in stars elsewhere, why do we still have full fledged
                          > > > > Uranium
                          > > > > > > we can mine? Should that not have all been depleted billions
                          > > of
                          > > > > years
                          > > > > > > ago having a half life of only thousands of years?
                          > > > > > > Some other element decays to become Uranium and then lead and
                          > > > > > > eventually everything in the periodic table will decay
                          > > backwards
                          > > > > to
                          > > > > > > hydrogen and the whole thing (big bang) starts over again.
                          > > > > > > I don't believe in ether either. It was proven not to exist
                          > > back
                          > > > > in
                          > > > > > > the 60's when an experimental laser was pulsed to the moon and
                          > > > > back
                          > > > > > > and the return beam was analysed and found not to have
                          > > shifted at
                          > > > > > > all. If photons move in this medium like sound travels through
                          > > > > air or
                          > > > > > > waves travel through water, then there must have been a
                          > > > > > > shift/deflection in the beam since no medium is completely
                          > > > > > > homogeneous and stationary. Hence there would be ether wind
                          > > that
                          > > > > > > would affect the returned laser.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > That's my take on that and it keeps me sane.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Too bad Robert Adams and Bill Muller took their experiences to
                          > > > > grave
                          > > > > > > with them instead of sharing them with humanity.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Speaking of wind, this one has become a long-winded post.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Regards,
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Mark
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > --- In adamsmotor@yahoogro ups.com
                          > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                          > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                          > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>
                          > > > > > > <mailto:adamsmotor% 40yahoogroups. com>, Russel Prier <russelp@>
                          > > > > wrote:
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > Hi Mark,
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > You have made a nice job of building that motor. Have you
                          > > seen
                          > > > > > > Robert
                          > > > > > > > adams pictures of his Golden Ratio Motor which is basically
                          > > what
                          > > > > > > was
                          > > > > > > > posted about recently.
                          > > > > > > > It has as was explained 2 drive coils and 4 energy recovery
                          > > > > coils
                          > > > > > > which
                          > > > > > > > when timed right dont cause any significant drag but can
                          > > deliver
                          > > > > > > very
                          > > > > > > > useful amount of power. Your setup looks to be ideal to
                          > > expand
                          > > > > to
                          > > > > > > do
                          > > > > > > > that with. That recent setup was timed with the recovery
                          > > coils
                          > > > > at
                          > > > > > > 44.7
                          > > > > > > > degrees to the drive coils which is near enough to 45
                          > > degrees
                          > > > > but
                          > > > > > > Robert
                          > > > > > > > did not find this to be the best position. He used the
                          > > golden
                          > > > > > > ratio
                          > > > > > > > which is about 61.7% as a ratio of the distance betwee the
                          > > drive
                          > > > > > > coils
                          > > > > > > > and generator coils but I dont know which way around he had
                          > > > > > > things. The
                          > > > > > > > old motors that where made that way were partly dismantled
                          > > when
                          > > > > I
                          > > > > > > saw
                          > > > > > > > them so I was unable to tell which way the offset was
                          > > between
                          > > > > the
                          > > > > > > coil
                          > > > > > > > sets. The rest of the info is very good and I will be
                          > > trying to
                          > > > > > > > duplicate or better that excelent effort as soon as I get
                          > > some
                          > > > > time
                          > > > > > > to
                          > > > > > > > work on it. Your experience with loading the buck side and
                          > > > > getting
                          > > > > > > more
                          > > > > > > > speed is the same as Robert found and a Bedini motor will do
                          > > > > that
                          > > > > > > to.
                          > > > > > > > Robert learnt how to extract massive amounts of energy using
                          > > > > only 2
                          > > > > > > > coils that were the drive coils and energy recorvery coils
                          > > > > > > > simultaneously but it is very tricky and I havent managed
                          > > to get
                          > > > > > > that to
                          > > > > > > > work myself even though I have seen the machines that he
                          > > did it
                          > > > > > > with. I
                          > > > > > > > have seen his 10 50 and 1000KW machines but dont know how
                          > > they
                          > > > > > > worked
                          > > > > > > > but they are quite simple machines.
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > markmoridi wrote:
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Hi all,
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > I've build an Adams motor (picture under photos section).
                          > > I
                          > > > > can't
                          > > > > > > claim
                          > > > > > > > > anything fancy and outrageous like the recent posting but
                          > > I've
                          > > > > > > seen
                          > > > > > > > > something I can't account for.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > When I load the generators, the rpm increases!
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Specifically when I load with the bank of LEDs, and steal
                          > > > > only the
                          > > > > > > > > positive cycles of the power, seems to give the greatest
                          > > of
                          > > > > rpm
                          > > > > > > change,
                          > > > > > > > > also when I short out the generators, I get the same
                          > > result.
                          > > > > > > > > But if I only steal the negative portion by reversing the
                          > > > > LEDs, I
                          > > > > > > don't
                          > > > > > > > > get half the rpm increase.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > My coils are 36 ohms each but I have connected them in
                          > > > > parallel
                          > > > > > > since I
                          > > > > > > > > am only working at 36 volts for now. Later, I will boost
                          > > it to
                          > > > > > > 120 and
                          > > > > > > > > eventually to 240v as per Adams notes and see what
                          > > happens.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > I am pulsing the drive coils using a 1024 cpr encoder
                          > > > > connected
                          > > > > > > to a
                          > > > > > > > > PIC that I programmed in C and can vary the duty cycle and
                          > > > > > > lead/lag of
                          > > > > > > > > the pulse. I am using an IRF mosfet rated at 1000 volts, 6
                          > > > > Amps.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > The optimal (minimum) pulse width I working on is 20.1%.
                          > > I've
                          > > > > > > gone as
                          > > > > > > > > high as 35% but the RPM increased only 10% which was not
                          > > > > worth the
                          > > > > > > > > power cost.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Mind you I do this sort of thing as a hobby and have no
                          > > > > > > expectation of
                          > > > > > > > > anything free. Just want to gain an understanding of these
                          > > > > pulse
                          > > > > > > motors.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > So, does anyone have a clue of what is going on?
                          > > > > > > > > Please answer if you have a scientific explanation.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Thanks.
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Regards,
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > > Mark
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >


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