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Re: Dampness -- What is it, how to cure it?

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  • apchat2000
    Thanks, Caroline, for the sympathy and the link. Bob Flaws also wrote Arisal of the Clear, which was interesting, but didnt apply to me (oddly!). I ve seen
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 31, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Thanks, Caroline, for the sympathy and the link. Bob Flaws also
      wrote "Arisal of the Clear," which was interesting, but didnt' apply to
      me (oddly!).

      I've seen so many TCM's, and so far none have solved my problem. Of
      the $2500, 60% was spent on acupuncturists and TCM's. Almost all were
      dr's in China and were Asian (two things I made sure of), but in one
      case, the guy was married to an Asian woman. Through all of this, I
      don't really trust Western dr's, and begrudgingly trust TCM's as they
      seem to think that my tongue coating says I am not well! haha! My
      advice to members who are acupuncturists, if you can't solve someone's
      problem, TELL THEM. Leading them on for weeks or jacking up the cost
      of herbs ($25 for 2 wks' worth that costs $6 at the health store) will
      breed resentment!

      Thanks again for your post, Caroline.

      Glenn

      --- In acupuncture@yahoogroups.com, "c_bertorelli" <c_bertorelli@y...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Dear Glenn,
      >
      > I'm sorry to hear you spent so much money on tests that told you next
      > to nothing.
      >
      > The simple answer to your question is to go to a Traditional Chinese
      > Medicine (TCM) practioner and get a consultation.
      >
    • apchat2000
      ... treat Thanks for writing, Lori. Yes, I ve been told that dampness takes a while to cure, and I d stick to a diet or eat something revolting 3 times a day
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 31, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In acupuncture@yahoogroups.com, Ms Lori Scott <loriandeli@y...>
        wrote:
        > Hello Glenn...Dampness is one of the more difficult pathogens to
        treat

        Thanks for writing, Lori.

        Yes, I've been told that dampness takes a while to cure, and I'd
        stick to a diet or eat something revolting 3 times a day for a year
        if it would eliminate this brain fog. I've seen several dr's of OM,
        and have been disappointed when their treatments didn't pan out, even
        after several weeks or months. It's like waiting for Christmas as a
        kid, then being told Xmas isn't coming (as in "getting better").
        Overall, the experience comes across that acupuncturists/Drs of OM
        are out to make a buck. It might not be accurate, but that's how it
        comes across. And I believe there's something to OM and that it
        works, and I'll really believe it when it works for me!!

        I've had a hard time finding reliable dr's of Oriental medicine. Is
        there a database of some kind. Apparently, the "DOOM" degree means
        nothing to the American medical community, but it is hard cking as to
        who has it. The last woman I saw wasn't listed in any database and
        got all her patients from word of mouth. She said the online
        databases required a fee. There's no real Yellow Pages for a state
        (NJ, for instance), only individual communities, which complicates
        the searching.

        I understand that it's hard translating the Chinese culture into
        ours. Something is lost in the translation, and the Chinese see
        things differently than we do.

        I didnt' post this this time, but these symptoms came up 2 yrs ago
        when I was taking Prozac/BuSpar. They'd been symptoms all along and
        went away when I stopped the meds, but got worse and never went away
        when I took and later stopped them this last time. So when Western
        dr's hear this, they think it's imagined, letting them off the hook.
        I don't think anyone knows what's wrong with me, and Westerners throw
        it back on me. Frustrating.


        Glenn

        >
        > I would like to add that translating "Dampness" into Chinese
        Medicine is a tricky call.

        >
        > Lori Scott, L.Ac.Tex.
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Christopher Vedeler, L.Ac.
        Thanks for sharing your frustration Glenn. One way to check credentials is to go to www.nccaom.org and check for practitioners in your area. This is not a
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 1, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Thanks for sharing your frustration Glenn.

          One way to check credentials is to go to www.nccaom.org and check for
          practitioners in your area. This is not a list members pay to be on,
          but a list qualified practitioners must be on to practice in most
          states. Chiropractors and MD's who do acupuncture will not be on the
          NCCAOM list unless they have gone through the same extensive training as
          L.Ac. or DOM's.

          "Brain fog", lethargy and a pale tongue may not be "dampness" related,
          but could be "blood deficiency" instead. Traditionally your tongue
          coating indicates dampness, but I find the tongue less reliable than the
          pulses. Also you mention a history of depression which could indicate
          Liver or Heart issues in Chinese medicine. A different diagnosis would
          indicate a different treatment approach (and different herbs) with
          potentially radically different results. Good herbal medicine can do
          wonders, but you need to find a practitioner who will dispense real
          herbs (either raw or in liquid extract form). The ready made "tea
          pills" are not very effective. Also Chinese trained TCM doctors are not
          always the best. Their training is quite narrow and mostly herbal. It
          is only one branch of many in Oriental medicine and in my opinion the
          one least effective for psychological or emotional issues.

          I'm sure there are some practitioners that are just trying to make a
          buck, but most of us are genuinely trying to help as best we can given
          our training and experience. If your condition is indeed dampness, then
          it will likely take months to years to see results. There may be more
          cost effective options available to you than OM and a good OM
          practitioner would suggest this.

          Always look for someone who has your best interest in mind and not their
          own pocketbook. I need to make a living and I do make a profit on my
          services and herbs, but I've sold my soul once I trade the best interest
          of my patients for money. I believe that prosperity will come when I
          can help people so that they feel they have gotten more value from my
          services than it cost them.

          Best of luck!

          Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.
          Oasis Acupuncture
          http://www.oasisacupuncture.com
          8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte
          Suite D-35
          Scottsdale, AZ 85258
          Phone: (480) 991-3650
          Fax: (480) 247-4472

          -----Original Message-----
          From: apchat2000 [mailto:apchat@...]
          Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 PM
          To: acupuncture@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [acupuncture] Re: Dampness -- What is it, how to cure it?



          --- In acupuncture@yahoogroups.com, Ms Lori Scott <loriandeli@y...>
          wrote:
          > Hello Glenn...Dampness is one of the more difficult pathogens to
          treat

          Thanks for writing, Lori.

          Yes, I've been told that dampness takes a while to cure, and I'd
          stick to a diet or eat something revolting 3 times a day for a year
          if it would eliminate this brain fog. I've seen several dr's of OM,
          and have been disappointed when their treatments didn't pan out, even
          after several weeks or months. It's like waiting for Christmas as a
          kid, then being told Xmas isn't coming (as in "getting better").
          Overall, the experience comes across that acupuncturists/Drs of OM
          are out to make a buck. It might not be accurate, but that's how it
          comes across. And I believe there's something to OM and that it
          works, and I'll really believe it when it works for me!!

          I've had a hard time finding reliable dr's of Oriental medicine. Is
          there a database of some kind. Apparently, the "DOOM" degree means
          nothing to the American medical community, but it is hard cking as to
          who has it. The last woman I saw wasn't listed in any database and
          got all her patients from word of mouth. She said the online
          databases required a fee. There's no real Yellow Pages for a state
          (NJ, for instance), only individual communities, which complicates
          the searching.

          I understand that it's hard translating the Chinese culture into
          ours. Something is lost in the translation, and the Chinese see
          things differently than we do.

          I didnt' post this this time, but these symptoms came up 2 yrs ago
          when I was taking Prozac/BuSpar. They'd been symptoms all along and
          went away when I stopped the meds, but got worse and never went away
          when I took and later stopped them this last time. So when Western
          dr's hear this, they think it's imagined, letting them off the hook.
          I don't think anyone knows what's wrong with me, and Westerners throw
          it back on me. Frustrating.


          Glenn

          >
          > I would like to add that translating "Dampness" into Chinese
          Medicine is a tricky call.

          >
          > Lori Scott, L.Ac.Tex.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          _____

          Yahoo! Groups Links


          * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • jen_boy
          Glenn, I have to add to that that maybe you need to be looking for 5 element acupuncturist who specialize on emotional problems. This is not even a Chineese
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 13, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Glenn,
            I have to add to that that maybe you need to be looking for 5
            element acupuncturist who specialize on emotional problems. This is
            not even a Chineese scholl of acupuncture.

            Also (based on what I saw so far),patients who are on
            antidepressants (at the time of treatment) will not have an
            effective energy treatment. Antidepressants just seem to override
            needles and Qi emissions.

            What state are you in ? Try looking for somebody who is NAACOM
            licenced in both herbs and acupucture. Try this directory too -
            http://www.fivebranches.edu/resources/alumni1.asp - my scholl is on
            a top list of schools in USA.

            And the last advice - go with your feeling. If you feel personal
            connection with somebody it means a lot. Personal trust means a lot
            for healing. If you are coming in thinking that the person wants
            your money - there is no trust and therefore healing is much harder.
            Hope that helped.

            --- In acupuncture@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Vedeler, L.Ac."
            <ckvedeler@a...> wrote:
            > Thanks for sharing your frustration Glenn.
            >
            > One way to check credentials is to go to www.nccaom.org and check
            for
            > practitioners in your area. This is not a list members pay to be
            on,
            > but a list qualified practitioners must be on to practice in most
            > states. Chiropractors and MD's who do acupuncture will not be on
            the
            > NCCAOM list unless they have gone through the same extensive
            training as
            > L.Ac. or DOM's.
            >
            > "Brain fog", lethargy and a pale tongue may not be "dampness"
            related,
            > but could be "blood deficiency" instead. Traditionally your tongue
            > coating indicates dampness, but I find the tongue less reliable
            than the
            > pulses. Also you mention a history of depression which could
            indicate
            > Liver or Heart issues in Chinese medicine. A different diagnosis
            would
            > indicate a different treatment approach (and different herbs) with
            > potentially radically different results. Good herbal medicine can
            do
            > wonders, but you need to find a practitioner who will dispense real
            > herbs (either raw or in liquid extract form). The ready made "tea
            > pills" are not very effective. Also Chinese trained TCM doctors
            are not
            > always the best. Their training is quite narrow and mostly
            herbal. It
            > is only one branch of many in Oriental medicine and in my opinion
            the
            > one least effective for psychological or emotional issues.
            >
            > I'm sure there are some practitioners that are just trying to make
            a
            > buck, but most of us are genuinely trying to help as best we can
            given
            > our training and experience. If your condition is indeed
            dampness, then
            > it will likely take months to years to see results. There may be
            more
            > cost effective options available to you than OM and a good OM
            > practitioner would suggest this.
            >
            > Always look for someone who has your best interest in mind and not
            their
            > own pocketbook. I need to make a living and I do make a profit on
            my
            > services and herbs, but I've sold my soul once I trade the best
            interest
            > of my patients for money. I believe that prosperity will come
            when I
            > can help people so that they feel they have gotten more value from
            my
            > services than it cost them.
            >
            > Best of luck!
            >
            > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.
            > Oasis Acupuncture
            > http://www.oasisacupuncture.com
            > 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte
            > Suite D-35
            > Scottsdale, AZ 85258
            > Phone: (480) 991-3650
            > Fax: (480) 247-4472
            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: apchat2000 [mailto:apchat@m...]
            > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 PM
            > To: acupuncture@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [acupuncture] Re: Dampness -- What is it, how to cure it?
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In acupuncture@yahoogroups.com, Ms Lori Scott
            <loriandeli@y...>
            > wrote:
            > > Hello Glenn...Dampness is one of the more difficult pathogens to
            > treat
            >
            > Thanks for writing, Lori.
            >
            > Yes, I've been told that dampness takes a while to cure, and I'd
            > stick to a diet or eat something revolting 3 times a day for a
            year
            > if it would eliminate this brain fog. I've seen several dr's of
            OM,
            > and have been disappointed when their treatments didn't pan out,
            even
            > after several weeks or months. It's like waiting for Christmas as
            a
            > kid, then being told Xmas isn't coming (as in "getting better").
            > Overall, the experience comes across that acupuncturists/Drs of OM
            > are out to make a buck. It might not be accurate, but that's how
            it
            > comes across. And I believe there's something to OM and that it
            > works, and I'll really believe it when it works for me!!
            >
            > I've had a hard time finding reliable dr's of Oriental medicine.
            Is
            > there a database of some kind. Apparently, the "DOOM" degree
            means
            > nothing to the American medical community, but it is hard cking as
            to
            > who has it. The last woman I saw wasn't listed in any database
            and
            > got all her patients from word of mouth. She said the online
            > databases required a fee. There's no real Yellow Pages for a state
            > (NJ, for instance), only individual communities, which complicates
            > the searching.
            >
            > I understand that it's hard translating the Chinese culture into
            > ours. Something is lost in the translation, and the Chinese see
            > things differently than we do.
            >
            > I didnt' post this this time, but these symptoms came up 2 yrs ago
            > when I was taking Prozac/BuSpar. They'd been symptoms all along
            and
            > went away when I stopped the meds, but got worse and never went
            away
            > when I took and later stopped them this last time. So when
            Western
            > dr's hear this, they think it's imagined, letting them off the
            hook.
            > I don't think anyone knows what's wrong with me, and Westerners
            throw
            > it back on me. Frustrating.
            >
            >
            > Glenn
            >
            > >
            > > I would like to add that translating "Dampness" into Chinese
            > Medicine is a tricky call.
            >
            > >
            > > Lori Scott, L.Ac.Tex.
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > _____
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/acupuncture/
            >
            >
            > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > acupuncture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > <mailto:acupuncture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
            subject=Unsubscribe>
            >
            >
            > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Philip Tan-Gatue
            About Five Element Acupuncture, I would like to clarify that it does have it s roots in chinese schools, but that the 20th century reorganizing of TCM in the
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 13, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              About Five Element Acupuncture, I would like to clarify that it does
              have it's roots in chinese schools, but that the 20th century
              reorganizing of TCM in the People's Republic did not give it extra
              emphasis but instead put it side by side with other schools. I am
              studying in China now and I was taught Five Elements side by side with
              other trains of thought.

              On 4/13/05, jen_boy <jen_boy@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Glenn,
              > I have to add to that that maybe you need to be looking for 5
              > element acupuncturist who specialize on emotional problems. This is
              > not even a Chineese scholl of acupuncture.
              >
              > Also (based on what I saw so far),patients who are on
              > antidepressants (at the time of treatment) will not have an
              > effective energy treatment. Antidepressants just seem to override
              > needles and Qi emissions.
              >
              > What state are you in ? Try looking for somebody who is NAACOM
              > licenced in both herbs and acupucture. Try this directory too -
              > http://www.fivebranches.edu/resources/alumni1.asp - my scholl is on
              > a top list of schools in USA.
              >
              > And the last advice - go with your feeling. If you feel personal
              > connection with somebody it means a lot. Personal trust means a lot
              > for healing. If you are coming in thinking that the person wants
              > your money - there is no trust and therefore healing is much harder.
              > Hope that helped.
              >
              > --- In acupuncture@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Vedeler, L.Ac."
              > <ckvedeler@a...> wrote:
              > > Thanks for sharing your frustration Glenn.
              > >
              > > One way to check credentials is to go to www.nccaom.org and check
              > for
              > > practitioners in your area. This is not a list members pay to be
              > on,
              > > but a list qualified practitioners must be on to practice in most
              > > states. Chiropractors and MD's who do acupuncture will not be on
              > the
              > > NCCAOM list unless they have gone through the same extensive
              > training as
              > > L.Ac. or DOM's.
              > >
              > > "Brain fog", lethargy and a pale tongue may not be "dampness"
              > related,
              > > but could be "blood deficiency" instead. Traditionally your tongue
              > > coating indicates dampness, but I find the tongue less reliable
              > than the
              > > pulses. Also you mention a history of depression which could
              > indicate
              > > Liver or Heart issues in Chinese medicine. A different diagnosis
              > would
              > > indicate a different treatment approach (and different herbs) with
              > > potentially radically different results. Good herbal medicine can
              > do
              > > wonders, but you need to find a practitioner who will dispense real
              > > herbs (either raw or in liquid extract form). The ready made "tea
              > > pills" are not very effective. Also Chinese trained TCM doctors
              > are not
              > > always the best. Their training is quite narrow and mostly
              > herbal. It
              > > is only one branch of many in Oriental medicine and in my opinion
              > the
              > > one least effective for psychological or emotional issues.
              > >
              > > I'm sure there are some practitioners that are just trying to make
              > a
              > > buck, but most of us are genuinely trying to help as best we can
              > given
              > > our training and experience. If your condition is indeed
              > dampness, then
              > > it will likely take months to years to see results. There may be
              > more
              > > cost effective options available to you than OM and a good OM
              > > practitioner would suggest this.
              > >
              > > Always look for someone who has your best interest in mind and not
              > their
              > > own pocketbook. I need to make a living and I do make a profit on
              > my
              > > services and herbs, but I've sold my soul once I trade the best
              > interest
              > > of my patients for money. I believe that prosperity will come
              > when I
              > > can help people so that they feel they have gotten more value from
              > my
              > > services than it cost them.
              > >
              > > Best of luck!
              > >
              > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.
              > > Oasis Acupuncture
              > > http://www.oasisacupuncture.com
              > > 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte
              > > Suite D-35
              > > Scottsdale, AZ 85258
              > > Phone: (480) 991-3650
              > > Fax: (480) 247-4472
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: apchat2000 [mailto:apchat@m...]
              > > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 PM
              > > To: acupuncture@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [acupuncture] Re: Dampness -- What is it, how to cure it?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In acupuncture@yahoogroups.com, Ms Lori Scott
              > <loriandeli@y...>
              > > wrote:
              > > > Hello Glenn...Dampness is one of the more difficult pathogens to
              > > treat
              > >
              > > Thanks for writing, Lori.
              > >
              > > Yes, I've been told that dampness takes a while to cure, and I'd
              > > stick to a diet or eat something revolting 3 times a day for a
              > year
              > > if it would eliminate this brain fog. I've seen several dr's of
              > OM,
              > > and have been disappointed when their treatments didn't pan out,
              > even
              > > after several weeks or months. It's like waiting for Christmas as
              > a
              > > kid, then being told Xmas isn't coming (as in "getting better").
              > > Overall, the experience comes across that acupuncturists/Drs of OM
              > > are out to make a buck. It might not be accurate, but that's how
              > it
              > > comes across. And I believe there's something to OM and that it
              > > works, and I'll really believe it when it works for me!!
              > >
              > > I've had a hard time finding reliable dr's of Oriental medicine.
              > Is
              > > there a database of some kind. Apparently, the "DOOM" degree
              > means
              > > nothing to the American medical community, but it is hard cking as
              > to
              > > who has it. The last woman I saw wasn't listed in any database
              > and
              > > got all her patients from word of mouth. She said the online
              > > databases required a fee. There's no real Yellow Pages for a state
              > > (NJ, for instance), only individual communities, which complicates
              > > the searching.
              > >
              > > I understand that it's hard translating the Chinese culture into
              > > ours. Something is lost in the translation, and the Chinese see
              > > things differently than we do.
              > >
              > > I didnt' post this this time, but these symptoms came up 2 yrs ago
              > > when I was taking Prozac/BuSpar. They'd been symptoms all along
              > and
              > > went away when I stopped the meds, but got worse and never went
              > away
              > > when I took and later stopped them this last time. So when
              > Western
              > > dr's hear this, they think it's imagined, letting them off the
              > hook.
              > > I don't think anyone knows what's wrong with me, and Westerners
              > throw
              > > it back on me. Frustrating.
              > >
              > >
              > > Glenn
              > >
              > > >
              > > > I would like to add that translating "Dampness" into Chinese
              > > Medicine is a tricky call.
              > >
              > > >
              > > > Lori Scott, L.Ac.Tex.
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > _____
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/acupuncture/
              > >
              > >
              > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > acupuncture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > <mailto:acupuncture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
              > subject=Unsubscribe>
              > >
              > >
              > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              Philip Niño Tan-Gatue, M.D.
            • bobbiaqua@aol.com
              Phillip, Where are you in school in China and what kind of program is it?? Thanks, Bobbi ... From: Philip Tan-Gatue To:
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 26, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Phillip,

                Where are you in school in China and what kind of program is it??


                Thanks,

                Bobbi
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Philip Tan-Gatue <philiptangatue@...>
                To: acupuncture@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:32:23 +0800
                Subject: Re: [acupuncture] Re: Dampness -- What is it, how to cure it?


                About Five Element Acupuncture, I would like to clarify that it does
                have it's roots in chinese schools, but that the 20th century
                reorganizing of TCM in the People's Republic did not give it extra
                emphasis but instead put it side by side with other schools. I am
                studying in China now and I was taught Five Elements side by side with
                other trains of thought.

                On 4/13/05, jen_boy <jen_boy@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Glenn,
                > I have to add to that that maybe you need to be looking for 5
                > element acupuncturist who specialize on emotional problems. This is
                > not even a Chineese scholl of acupuncture.
                >
                > Also (based on what I saw so far),patients who are on
                > antidepressants (at the time of treatment) will not have an
                > effective energy treatment. Antidepressants just seem to override
                > needles and Qi emissions.
                >
                > What state are you in ? Try looking for somebody who is NAACOM
                > licenced in both herbs and acupucture. Try this directory too -
                > http://www.fivebranches.edu/resources/alumni1.asp - my scholl is on
                > a top list of schools in USA.
                >
                > And the last advice - go with your feeling. If you feel personal
                > connection with somebody it means a lot. Personal trust means a lot
                > for healing. If you are coming in thinking that the person wants
                > your money - there is no trust and therefore healing is much harder.
                > Hope that helped.
                >
                > --- In acupuncture@yahoogroups.com, "Christopher Vedeler, L.Ac."
                > <ckvedeler@a...> wrote:
                > > Thanks for sharing your frustration Glenn.
                > >
                > > One way to check credentials is to go to www.nccaom.org and check
                > for
                > > practitioners in your area. This is not a list members pay to be
                > on,
                > > but a list qualified practitioners must be on to practice in most
                > > states. Chiropractors and MD's who do acupuncture will not be on
                > the
                > > NCCAOM list unless they have gone through the same extensive
                > training as
                > > L.Ac. or DOM's.
                > >
                > > "Brain fog", lethargy and a pale tongue may not be "dampness"
                > related,
                > > but could be "blood deficiency" instead. Traditionally your tongue
                > > coating indicates dampness, but I find the tongue less reliable
                > than the
                > > pulses. Also you mention a history of depression which could
                > indicate
                > > Liver or Heart issues in Chinese medicine. A different diagnosis
                > would
                > > indicate a different treatment approach (and different herbs) with
                > > potentially radically different results. Good herbal medicine can
                > do
                > > wonders, but you need to find a practitioner who will dispense real
                > > herbs (either raw or in liquid extract form). The ready made "tea
                > > pills" are not very effective. Also Chinese trained TCM doctors
                > are not
                > > always the best. Their training is quite narrow and mostly
                > herbal. It
                > > is only one branch of many in Oriental medicine and in my opinion
                > the
                > > one least effective for psychological or emotional issues.
                > >
                > > I'm sure there are some practitioners that are just trying to make
                > a
                > > buck, but most of us are genuinely trying to help as best we can
                > given
                > > our training and experience. If your condition is indeed
                > dampness, then
                > > it will likely take months to years to see results. There may be
                > more
                > > cost effective options available to you than OM and a good OM
                > > practitioner would suggest this.
                > >
                > > Always look for someone who has your best interest in mind and not
                > their
                > > own pocketbook. I need to make a living and I do make a profit on
                > my
                > > services and herbs, but I've sold my soul once I trade the best
                > interest
                > > of my patients for money. I believe that prosperity will come
                > when I
                > > can help people so that they feel they have gotten more value from
                > my
                > > services than it cost them.
                > >
                > > Best of luck!
                > >
                > > Christopher Vedeler L.Ac., C.Ht.
                > > Oasis Acupuncture
                > > http://www.oasisacupuncture.com
                > > 8233 N. Via Paseo del Norte
                > > Suite D-35
                > > Scottsdale, AZ 85258
                > > Phone: (480) 991-3650
                > > Fax: (480) 247-4472
                > >
                > > -----Original Message-----
                > > From: apchat2000 [mailto:apchat@m...]
                > > Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 PM
                > > To: acupuncture@yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [acupuncture] Re: Dampness -- What is it, how to cure it?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In acupuncture@yahoogroups.com, Ms Lori Scott
                > <loriandeli@y...>
                > > wrote:
                > > > Hello Glenn...Dampness is one of the more difficult pathogens to
                > > treat
                > >
                > > Thanks for writing, Lori.
                > >
                > > Yes, I've been told that dampness takes a while to cure, and I'd
                > > stick to a diet or eat something revolting 3 times a day for a
                > year
                > > if it would eliminate this brain fog. I've seen several dr's of
                > OM,
                > > and have been disappointed when their treatments didn't pan out,
                > even
                > > after several weeks or months. It's like waiting for Christmas as
                > a
                > > kid, then being told Xmas isn't coming (as in "getting better").
                > > Overall, the experience comes across that acupuncturists/Drs of OM
                > > are out to make a buck. It might not be accurate, but that's how
                > it
                > > comes across. And I believe there's something to OM and that it
                > > works, and I'll really believe it when it works for me!!
                > >
                > > I've had a hard time finding reliable dr's of Oriental medicine.
                > Is
                > > there a database of some kind. Apparently, the "DOOM" degree
                > means
                > > nothing to the American medical community, but it is hard cking as
                > to
                > > who has it. The last woman I saw wasn't listed in any database
                > and
                > > got all her patients from word of mouth. She said the online
                > > databases required a fee. There's no real Yellow Pages for a state
                > > (NJ, for instance), only individual communities, which complicates
                > > the searching.
                > >
                > > I understand that it's hard translating the Chinese culture into
                > > ours. Something is lost in the translation, and the Chinese see
                > > things differently than we do.
                > >
                > > I didnt' post this this time, but these symptoms came up 2 yrs ago
                > > when I was taking Prozac/BuSpar. They'd been symptoms all along
                > and
                > > went away when I stopped the meds, but got worse and never went
                > away
                > > when I took and later stopped them this last time. So when
                > Western
                > > dr's hear this, they think it's imagined, letting them off the
                > hook.
                > > I don't think anyone knows what's wrong with me, and Westerners
                > throw
                > > it back on me. Frustrating.
                > >
                > >
                > > Glenn
                > >
                > > >
                > > > I would like to add that translating "Dampness" into Chinese
                > > Medicine is a tricky call.
                > >
                > > >
                > > > Lori Scott, L.Ac.Tex.
                > > >
                > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/acupuncture/
                > >
                > >
                > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > > acupuncture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > <mailto:acupuncture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?
                > subject=Unsubscribe>
                > >
                > >
                > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


                --
                Philip Niño Tan-Gatue, M.D.




                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Jason Davies
                this is not necessarily the case....follow this link and have a look at the trial presented on page 4 of the document
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 27, 2005
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                  this is not necessarily the case....follow this link and have a look at the
                  trial presented on page 4 of the document

                  http://www.acupuncture.org.uk/content/Library/pdf/anxiety_bp9.pdf

                  jason

                  On 4/13/05, jen_boy <jen_boy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Glenn,
                  > I have to add to that that maybe you need to be looking for 5
                  > element acupuncturist who specialize on emotional problems. This is
                  > not even a Chineese scholl of acupuncture.
                  >
                  > Also (based on what I saw so far),patients who are on
                  > antidepressants (at the time of treatment) will not have an
                  > effective energy treatment. Antidepressants just seem to override
                  > needles and Qi emissions.
                  >
                  >
                • Philip Tan-Gatue
                  I m currently enrolled in a full time three month course for medical professionals in the Nanjing University of TCM s International Acupuncture Training
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 27, 2005
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                    I'm currently enrolled in a full time three month course for medical
                    professionals in the Nanjing University of TCM's International
                    Acupuncture Training Center. They also have an advance course that I
                    am planning to attend.

                    Giovanni Maciocia, author of several TCM books, graduated from this
                    institution a while back. I recommend it only if one is already a
                    health professional. Otherwise going through a full TCM course in a
                    college is preferable.


                    On 4/27/05, bobbiaqua@... <bobbiaqua@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Phillip,
                    >
                    > Where are you in school in China and what kind of program is it??
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > Bobbi
                    --
                    Philip Niño Tan-Gatue, M.D.
                  • Len S Ontog
                    Hi, Dr Philip, Where are you affiliated in the Philippines len _____ From: acupuncture@yahoogroups.com [mailto:acupuncture@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip
                    Message 9 of 13 , Apr 27, 2005
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                      Hi, Dr Philip,



                      Where are you affiliated in the Philippines



                      len



                      _____

                      From: acupuncture@yahoogroups.com [mailto:acupuncture@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Philip Tan-Gatue
                      Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:25 AM
                      To: acupuncture@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [acupuncture] Re: Dampness -- What is it, how to cure it?



                      I'm currently enrolled in a full time three month course for medical
                      professionals in the Nanjing University of TCM's International
                      Acupuncture Training Center. They also have an advance course that I
                      am planning to attend.

                      Giovanni Maciocia, author of several TCM books, graduated from this
                      institution a while back. I recommend it only if one is already a
                      health professional. Otherwise going through a full TCM course in a
                      college is preferable.


                      On 4/27/05, bobbiaqua@... <bobbiaqua@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Phillip,
                      >
                      > Where are you in school in China and what kind of program is it??
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Bobbi
                      --
                      Philip Niño Tan-Gatue, M.D.



                      _____

                      Yahoo! Groups Links

                      * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/acupuncture/

                      * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      acupuncture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      <mailto:acupuncture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

                      * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Philip Tan-Gatue
                      Oh I m just a private general practitioner. I graduated from the University of the Philippines and had my internship in the Philippine General Hospital. ...
                      Message 10 of 13 , Apr 27, 2005
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                        Oh I'm just a private general practitioner. I graduated from the
                        University of the Philippines and had my internship in the Philippine
                        General Hospital.

                        On 4/28/05, Len S Ontog <mesopath@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi, Dr Philip,
                        >
                        > Where are you affiliated in the Philippines
                        >
                        > len
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > From: acupuncture@yahoogroups.com [mailto:acupuncture@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > Behalf Of Philip Tan-Gatue
                        > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2005 1:25 AM
                        > To: acupuncture@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [acupuncture] Re: Dampness -- What is it, how to cure it?
                        >
                        > I'm currently enrolled in a full time three month course for medical
                        > professionals in the Nanjing University of TCM's International
                        > Acupuncture Training Center. They also have an advance course that I
                        > am planning to attend.
                        >
                        > Giovanni Maciocia, author of several TCM books, graduated from this
                        > institution a while back. I recommend it only if one is already a
                        > health professional. Otherwise going through a full TCM course in a
                        > college is preferable.
                        >
                        > On 4/27/05, bobbiaqua@... <bobbiaqua@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Phillip,
                        > >
                        > > Where are you in school in China and what kind of program is it??
                        > >
                        > > Thanks,
                        > >
                        > > Bobbi
                        > --
                        > Philip Niño Tan-Gatue, M.D.
                        >
                        > _____
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
                        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/acupuncture/
                        >
                        > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        > acupuncture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > <mailto:acupuncture-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                        >
                        > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                        > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        --
                        Philip Niño Tan-Gatue, M.D.
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