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Re: [acupuncture] ointment recipes?

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  • drjudyhou@aol.com
    David, If you want to make the ointment by yourself, you must to know Chinese herbal medicine. Generally, in China, almost traumatology, dermatology uses
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 1, 2002
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      David,
      If you want to make the ointment by yourself, you must to know Chinese herbal
      medicine. Generally, in China, almost traumatology, dermatology uses
      ointment. For diseases and conditions, likes injuries, from falls, fractures,
      contusions, strain and hemorrhoids, anal fissure, etc.

      I do have the recipes for above conditions, but I'd know the law. I treat and
      practice in Maryland. Which state you are? Are you an acupuncturist? Never
      has student ask me this ointment. I think if the law allow acupuncturist to
      practice ointment, it will have great future in the US.

      I sew the ad. for an ointment on Chinese newspaper for pain condition that
      called QIZHENG. If you have interesting in it I can find out and send the
      information to you.

      We have had reseached medical herbs called "Sniff & Relief" for headache,
      allergy and cold for over 12 years in clinic in China and the USA, that has
      very good results.

      I used to call FDA to ask about medical herbs how we can practice here. But
      he tald me you cannot say medicine. So really I don't know ointment can be
      used in America or not by acupuncturist.

      You asked me any ointment for uplifting shen, the answer is YES! Simply you
      can use tiger bar, that could help reducing headache and uplift shen, or you
      could use Sniff & Relief.

      Judy

      > Judy,
      > I want to make ointments to treat my patients with
      > headaches, musculoskeletal disorders, arthritis,
      > etc...
      > Is there an ointment for uplifting shen? Thanks for
      > your help in advanced.
      > David
      >


      Judy Hou
      All Natural Medicine Clinic
      4801 Randolph Rd.
      Rockville MD 20852
      http://anmedicine.com


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kit
      ... But ... can be ... Hi Judy, Maybe someone will give more about the FDA but herbs are not under their jurisdiction....yet. There are many ointments patents
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 2, 2002
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        >I used to call FDA to ask about medical herbs how we can practice here.
        But
        >he tald me you cannot say medicine. So really I don't know ointment
        can be
        >used in America or not by acupuncturist.

        Hi Judy,

        Maybe someone will give more about the FDA but herbs are not under
        their jurisdiction....yet. There are many ointments patents in our school's
        Herbal Pharmacy that anyone can come in and purchase.
        There is a class of medicines that are called OTC (Over The Counter).
        That is why you can go into your local drugstore and buy these
        without a prescription. Also, there are many drugs that used to need
        prescriptions, whose patents have expired, and are now OTC.
        The pharmaceutical companies often try to slightly reformulate drugs
        so that it can keep it off the OTC market and continue their
        high profit margins.

        I totally agree with you that someone should be well-schooled.
        However, in most, if not all states, anyone can practice herbal medicine
        without a license.....therein, may lie the problem!!


        Kit
      • bobbiaqua@aol.com
        David, If you look on Amazon.com you will some books. One that I know the name of is kitchen witchery. There are several herb books which will give you recipes
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 2, 2002
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          David,

          If you look on Amazon.com you will some books. One that I know the name of is
          kitchen witchery. There are several herb books which will give you recipes
          for salves and ointment and also Blue Poppy has a book on ShaoLin External
          Medicine which has many recipes. Are you studying herbal medicine???

          I myself generally use patent remedies these days as there are so many good
          one. I use White Flower Oil and Po Sum On together for basic move blood,
          anti-inflammatory stuff such as muscle and back aches. Spring Wind makes
          plasters you can make yourself combinations, etc. There are also plasters you
          can buy. Blue Poppy makes a whole line of sprays, salves,etc. The one area
          that I find people like to make for themselves and for which there are not
          great products in my opinion is Dit Dao. Many Shiatsu and Qi Gong/Tai Qi and
          other Martial Arts practitioners make their own. Start with Blue Poppy's Shao
          Lin Book and look around for others.

          A great Western Herbal Teacher is Michael Moore in NM and Michael Tierra use
          to give how to make courses. There are probably others.

          I do not believe there are licensing laws regarding Herbalism as yet in this
          country. Few if any Acupuncture Lic. have herbal medicine as part of their
          licensing but I look at as 2 different practices and it is possible to get
          Certified in Oriental Medicine by the NCCAOM.

          Hope this helps and good luck!!! In the old days all it took was a sincere
          interest and common sense!!!!

          Bobbi


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • drjudyhou@aol.com
          You are right, Kit. But how can you have the patent of herbal medicine, but can t get on OTC? I mean, which way, where you can reach the OTC? In China, have a
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 2, 2002
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            You are right, Kit. But how can you have the patent of herbal medicine, but
            can't get on OTC? I mean, which way, where you can reach the OTC? In China,
            have a lots of patent's herbal medicine that function is much stronger then
            medications but can't get in OTC, even can't use medical terms on the
            directions (under FDA control) , how those patients can find quality medical
            herbs and use it? It's not just ointment.

            So far, I just find Jensen, Jinger and Gingo on the OTC.

            Judy


            >
            > >I used to call FDA to ask about medical herbs how we can practice here.
            > But
            > >he tald me you cannot say medicine. So really I don't know ointment
            > can be
            > >used in America or not by acupuncturist.
            >
            > Hi Judy,
            >
            > Maybe someone will give more about the FDA but herbs are not under
            > their jurisdiction....yet. There are many ointments patents in our
            > school's
            > Herbal Pharmacy that anyone can come in and purchase.
            > There is a class of medicines that are called OTC (Over The Counter).
            > That is why you can go into your local drugstore and buy these
            > without a prescription. Also, there are many drugs that used to need
            > prescriptions, whose patents have expired, and are now OTC.
            > The pharmaceutical companies often try to slightly reformulate drugs
            > so that it can keep it off the OTC market and continue their
            > high profit margins.
            >
            > I totally agree with you that someone should be well-schooled.
            > However, in most, if not all states, anyone can practice herbal medicine
            > without a license.....therein, may lie the problem!!
            >
            >
            > Kit
            >
            >


            Judy Hou
            All Natural Medicine Clinic
            4801 Randolph Rd.
            Rockville MD 20852
            http://anmedicine.com


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • acudoc11@aol.com
            Kit Don t think you are correct about anyone being able to practice herbal medicine without a license. It s just that the FDA has their hands full with
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 3, 2002
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              Kit

              Don't think you are correct about anyone being able to practice herbal
              medicine without a license. It's just that the FDA has their hands full with
              everything else. Don't worry - they will get to it.

              Even here in Florida with Acupuncture Physicians having many issues written
              into Law & Rules.....still there was a situation recently regarding one
              investigation by the FDA and every raw herb was pulled off the practitioner's
              shelves PLUS every formula on the shelf that didn't have clearly written in
              latin or botanical name - every ingredient was also pulled. So home made
              itmes maybe problematic. The FDA may give us trouble at some point for
              individualized formulations unless of course it is labeled completely and
              properly.

              Where they have their leverage is in the agricultural and labeling arenas.

              Where-ever your school is located they NEED to be aware that the FDA CAN come
              into the school and remove or cause to have removed ALL the raw herbs and
              poorly labeled products.

              Richard

              In a message dated 12/2/02 4:39:26 PM, kitcurtin@... writes:

              << Maybe someone will give more about the FDA but herbs are not under
              their jurisdiction....yet. There are many ointments patents in our school's
              Herbal Pharmacy that anyone can come in and purchase.
              There is a class of medicines that are called OTC (Over The Counter).
              That is why you can go into your local drugstore and buy these
              without a prescription. Also, there are many drugs that used to need
              prescriptions, whose patents have expired, and are now OTC.
              The pharmaceutical companies often try to slightly reformulate drugs
              so that it can keep it off the OTC market and continue their
              high profit margins.

              I totally agree with you that someone should be well-schooled.
              However, in most, if not all states, anyone can practice herbal medicine
              without a license.....therein, may lie the problem!!


              Kit
              >>
            • Kit
              Hi Richard, Thanks for the info! I had info someone had told me. I do know that there are herbalists without licenses and that not all states require the
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 3, 2002
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                Hi Richard,
                Thanks for the info!
                I had info someone had told me.
                I do know that there are herbalists
                without licenses and that not all states
                require the NCCAOM herbal exam for acu-
                licensing. Tennessee doesn't even
                require a license for acupuncture. I am
                sure it will change.
                Do you know which states require a license
                for herbalists?
                Kit


                At 09:20 AM 12/3/02 -0500, you wrote:
                >
                >Kit
                >
                >Don't think you are correct about anyone being able to practice herbal
                >medicine without a license. It's just that the FDA has their hands full with
                >everything else. Don't worry - they will get to it.
                >
                >
              • acudoc11@aol.com
                Hi Kit Not sure that it s that clear YET on a state by state basis. Even here in Florida - although people don t know it - I suspect that someday soon those
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 3, 2002
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                  Hi Kit

                  Not sure that it's that clear YET on a state by state basis.
                  Even here in Florida - although people don't know it - I suspect that someday
                  soon those practicing homeopathy and/or any herbal medicine without a license
                  will get a CEASE & DECIST and then if they continue there will be trouble,

                  Richard

                  In a message dated 12/3/02 9:45:17 AM, kitcurtin@... writes:

                  << Hi Richard,
                  Thanks for the info!
                  I had info someone had told me.
                  I do know that there are herbalists
                  without licenses and that not all states
                  require the NCCAOM herbal exam for acu-
                  licensing. Tennessee doesn't even
                  require a license for acupuncture. I am
                  sure it will change.
                  Do you know which states require a license
                  for herbalists?
                  Kit
                  >>
                • acudoc11@aol.com
                  Hi Bobbi Certification by NCCAOM is NOT a license. It has almost NO meaning accept where a State Law accepts it as a testing service. The State Laws take
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 3, 2002
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                    Hi Bobbi

                    Certification by NCCAOM is NOT a license. It has almost NO meaning accept
                    where a State Law accepts it as a testing service.

                    The State Laws take precedent.

                    All I can speak to - clearly - is in Florida .......and here it is NOT
                    necessary to be NCCAOM certified in anything - just that the State of Florida
                    presently USES NCCAOM to give the written and point location tests. One needs
                    NOT pay the additional fee for the use of the words...'NCCAOM Certified'.

                    As to the practice of herbal medicine..... HERE it IS within our State
                    legislated SCOPE of PRACTICE. NCCAOM has nothing to do with it.

                    Hope that clears up some confusion that exists out there.

                    Richard

                    In a message dated 12/3/02 9:55:29 AM, bobbiaqua@... writes:

                    <<
                    I do not believe there are licensing laws regarding Herbalism as yet in this
                    country. Few if any Acupuncture Lic. have herbal medicine as part of their
                    licensing but I look at as 2 different practices and it is possible to get
                    Certified in Oriental Medicine by the NCCAOM.
                    >>
                  • Kit
                    Hi Judy, I m sorry if I caused any confusion with the word patent. It has a different meaning in the US. patent, defintion: a govt. grant conferring, for a
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 3, 2002
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                      Hi Judy,

                      I'm sorry if I caused any confusion with the word patent.
                      It has a different meaning in the US.

                      patent, defintion: a govt. grant conferring, for a certain
                      period of time, the exclusive right of making, using or
                      selling a new invention. We don't call drugs "patents"
                      but they are patented medicines. Usually, the referral
                      to Chinese "patents" has to be explained to new patients.

                      One cannot patent herbal medicine since herbs already
                      exist in nature. That's what has the pharmaceutical
                      companies upset about the growing use of herbs.
                      They can make no profit from herbal medicine. The
                      drug company lobbyists are behind much of the
                      attempt to regulate supplements, herbs and
                      natural therapies.
                      This makes our self-regulation even more important.
                      Presently, we remain safe by prescribing per Chinese
                      diagnosis.

                      Kit


                      A bill requiring testing for and trials of effectiveness of herbal medicines
                      for other alternative medicine treatments would bender this industry in the
                      short term. However, these efforts will benefit the historically traditional
                      forms of medicines and our client, the pharmaceutical companies.
                      A Lobbying Plan for the Pharmaceutical Industry
                      to Protect the Health of Americans
                      <http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:wNmPUkJD73wC:www.vanguard-solutions.c
                      om/personal/scott/docs/p8.doc+pharmaceutical+lobby+and+herb&hl=en&ie=UTF-8>
                      http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:wNmPUkJD73wC:www.vanguard-solutions.com
                      /personal/scott/docs/p8.doc+pharmaceutical+lobby+and+herb&hl=en&ie=UTF-8







                      In the US, the Commission on Dietary Supplements is seeking to facilitate the
                      making of OTC drug claims on herbs by strongly advising Congress that the FDA
                      should create a special panel for this purpose. Although, technically, this is
                      not creating a "new OTC category," in reality, this move is still
                      encouraging a
                      shift from FOOD to "DRUG", and they are trying to make it seem INNOCUOUS.
                      <http://www.iahf.com/world/cdx-dec.txt>http://www.iahf.com/world/cdx-dec.txt


                      The pharmaceutical industry has very powerful lobby groups which have for the
                      most part tilted governing bodies against the herbal industry but citizens are
                      starting to speak out which is a good thing.
                      <http://www.ferlowbrothers.com/statistics.htm>http://www.ferlowbrothers.com
                      /statistics.htm


                      There is no lobby in Washington as large, as powerful or as well-financed as
                      the pharmaceutical lobby.
                      Thanks to Washington's well-oiled revolving door between government and
                      business, the industry is able to claim friends in especially high places.
                      Even more important, more than half the drug industry's 625 registered
                      lobbyists
                      are either former members of Congress or former Congressional staff members
                      and
                      government employees, according to a report from Public Citizen.
                      The drug industry needs this political capital both now and the future -
                      especially when it comes to patents. For the industry, the protection of
                      patents - which give companies monopoly control over the drugs they bring to
                      market for a number of years - is basic to their existence.
                      At the moment, industry lobbyists are swarming through the halls of Congress
                      because the House is about to consider a Senate-passed bill to extend the
                      industry's monopoly patents by six months on many existing drugs - a measure
                      that could reap billions for the industry but cost consumers.
                      And there may have been another motive for the corporate offers. Drug makers
                      depend on patents to help them recoup their research and testing costs, but
                      once those costs are recovered, the high prices they charge for patented drugs
                      give them operating margins that are among the highest in corporate America.
                      <http://www.mercola.com/2001/nov/21/drug_industry.htm>http://www.mercola.co
                      m/2001/nov/21/drug_industry.htm


                      At 10:44 PM 12/2/02 -0500, you wrote:
                      >
                      > You are right, Kit. But how can you have the patent of herbal medicine, but
                      > can't get on OTC? I mean, which way, where you can reach the OTC? In China,
                      > have a lots of patent's herbal medicine that function is much stronger then
                      > medications but can't get in OTC, even can't use medical terms on the
                      > directions (under FDA control) , how those patients can find quality
                      medical
                      > herbs and use it? It's not just ointment.
                      >
                      > So far, I just find Jensen, Jinger and Gingo on the OTC.
                      >
                      > Judy
                    • Kit
                      Yes, I think you are right... that it is on the horizon. Although, there also may be some grandfathering-in.... Kit ... someday ... license
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 3, 2002
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                        Yes, I think you are right... that it is on the horizon.
                        Although, there also may be some grandfathering-in....
                        Kit


                        At 10:00 AM 12/3/02 -0500, ACUDOC11@... wrote:
                        >Hi Kit
                        >
                        >Not sure that it's that clear YET on a state by state basis.
                        >Even here in Florida - although people don't know it - I suspect that
                        someday
                        >soon those practicing homeopathy and/or any herbal medicine without a
                        license
                        >will get a CEASE & DECIST and then if they continue there will be trouble,
                        >
                        >Richard
                        >
                      • acudoc11@aol.com
                        Kit Grandfathering maybe but not here without a license as I do not believe it will be licensed separately. Maybe elsewhere in the US. Richard ... [Non-text
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 3, 2002
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                          Kit

                          Grandfathering maybe but not here without a license as I do not believe it
                          will be licensed separately.
                          Maybe elsewhere in the US.
                          Richard


                          > Yes, I think you are right... that it is on the horizon.
                          > Although, there also may be some grandfathering-in....
                          > Kit
                          >
                          >
                          > At 10:00 AM 12/3/02 -0500, ACUDOC11@... wrote:
                          > >Hi Kit
                          > >
                          > >Not sure that it's that clear YET on a state by state basis.
                          > >Even here in Florida - although people don't know it - I suspect that
                          > someday
                          > >soon those practicing homeopathy and/or any herbal medicine without a
                          > license
                          > >will get a CEASE &DECIST and then if they continue there will be trouble,
                          > >
                          > >Richard
                          > >



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • bobbiaqua@aol.com
                          Richard, Hi, I was/am wondering where in Florida you are located and what type of practice you have? Thanks, Bobbi East Hampton, NY [Non-text portions of this
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 3, 2002
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                            Richard,

                            Hi, I was/am wondering where in Florida you are located and what type of
                            practice you have?


                            Thanks,

                            Bobbi
                            East Hampton, NY


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • David Razo
                            Thanks Bobbi for all the information, it helps. I am studying Oriental Medicine presently. I am nearing my first year in the program. I was inquering about
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 4, 2002
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                              Thanks Bobbi for all the information, it helps. I am
                              studying Oriental Medicine presently. I am nearing my
                              first year in the program. I was inquering about
                              ointments because my school in AOM does not cover this
                              topic in any of its courses. I wanted to make
                              ointments because for one, i tend to learn more
                              hands-on and i thought it would be fun. Secondly,
                              they wouldn't go to waste because i can use them on my
                              patients-- i have been practicing massage/bodywork for
                              10 years. Thanks again for the info. , i'll check it
                              out
                              David

                              --- bobbiaqua@... wrote:
                              > David,
                              >
                              > If you look on Amazon.com you will some books. One
                              > that I know the name of is
                              > kitchen witchery. There are several herb books which
                              > will give you recipes
                              > for salves and ointment and also Blue Poppy has a
                              > book on ShaoLin External
                              > Medicine which has many recipes. Are you studying
                              > herbal medicine???
                              >
                              > I myself generally use patent remedies these days as
                              > there are so many good
                              > one. I use White Flower Oil and Po Sum On together
                              > for basic move blood,
                              > anti-inflammatory stuff such as muscle and back
                              > aches. Spring Wind makes
                              > plasters you can make yourself combinations, etc.
                              > There are also plasters you
                              > can buy. Blue Poppy makes a whole line of sprays,
                              > salves,etc. The one area
                              > that I find people like to make for themselves and
                              > for which there are not
                              > great products in my opinion is Dit Dao. Many
                              > Shiatsu and Qi Gong/Tai Qi and
                              > other Martial Arts practitioners make their own.
                              > Start with Blue Poppy's Shao
                              > Lin Book and look around for others.
                              >
                              > A great Western Herbal Teacher is Michael Moore in
                              > NM and Michael Tierra use
                              > to give how to make courses. There are probably
                              > others.
                              >
                              > I do not believe there are licensing laws regarding
                              > Herbalism as yet in this
                              > country. Few if any Acupuncture Lic. have herbal
                              > medicine as part of their
                              > licensing but I look at as 2 different practices and
                              > it is possible to get
                              > Certified in Oriental Medicine by the NCCAOM.
                              >
                              > Hope this helps and good luck!!! In the old days all
                              > it took was a sincere
                              > interest and common sense!!!!
                              >
                              > Bobbi
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                              > removed]
                              >
                              >


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                            • bobbiaqua@aol.com
                              In a message dated 12/4/02 11:18:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... David, I really want to encourage you because this is how I started out fortunately long
                              Message 14 of 18 , Dec 4, 2002
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                                In a message dated 12/4/02 11:18:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
                                ozar14@... writes:

                                > I wanted to make
                                > ointments because for one, i tend to learn more
                                > hands-on and i thought it would be fun.

                                David,

                                I really want to encourage you because this is how I started out fortunately
                                long before there was all this gov't intervention and people who were
                                interested simply learned and made their own. I am cleaning out my own
                                library which has gotten too big so let me know how your search goes and when
                                I see what I am going to do and if I have any books of interest to you we can
                                talk!!

                                Good Luck!!

                                Bobbi


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • drjudyhou@aol.com
                                Hi, Richard, If the decubitus didn t become ulcer yet, the best way is to choose Dahuang with alcohol. if get ulcer you could choose ZhengZhu Feng (powder)
                                Message 15 of 18 , Dec 5, 2002
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                                  Hi, Richard,


                                  If the decubitus didn't become ulcer yet, the best way is to choose Dahuang
                                  with alcohol. if get ulcer you could choose ZhengZhu Feng (powder) and BaiJi
                                  Feng(powder). If has infection, best way is choosing antibiotic (that
                                  stronger then Chinese medcine). fungus infection you could shoose Garlic,
                                  Huoshiang(by oral or I.V.-imposible in US).

                                  Wish you get success!

                                  Judy

                                  > Dear Judy
                                  >
                                  > My interests are in the skin ulcer domain....so if you have variations to
                                  > clean, kill bacteria/fungus etc and heal - then I would like to know others
                                  > than the ones I already mentioned. I am focusing on the elderly and 'bed
                                  > sores' or different stages of decubitus ulcers.
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  > Richard
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In a message dated 12/2/02 10:58:02 PM, DrJudyHou writes:
                                  >
                                  > <<Dear Rechard,
                                  >
                                  > You are right. Simple things likes tiger bar that has no any risk for
                                  > patients may has no any effective either.
                                  >
                                  > I have books that talk about ointment, may you need tell a disease that I
                                  > can tell you maybe some ointment is better.
                                  >
                                  > Judy >>
                                  >
                                  >


                                  Judy Hou
                                  All Natural Medicine Clinic
                                  4801 Randolph Rd.
                                  Rockville MD 20852
                                  http://anmedicine.com


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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