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If God 'WAS' Omnipotent, thus at peace....

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  • Swede
    ...Why did he at some point, create an imperfect Eden, that necessitated his need to create a Man to tend it? Genesis 2:8 Now the LORD God had planted a
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1, 2010
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      ...Why did 'he' at some point, create an imperfect Eden, that necessitated 'his' need to create a Man to tend it?

      Genesis 2:8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed... 15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
    • mangummurdock
      Swede Lizard, This is a very ancient creation story found in old civilizations that reflect the people s experience with their world at that time and place in
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1, 2010
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        Swede Lizard,
        This is a very ancient creation story found in old civilizations that reflect the people's experience with their world at that time and place in history. Only fundamentalist types would view it literally to accept or reject. I keep saying this but it does not take with lizards. I ask myself why and the only answer is that the lizards need this as a strawman to reject.

        mangum

        --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, "Swede" <swedtomkt@...> wrote:
        >
        > ...Why did 'he' at some point, create an imperfect Eden, that necessitated 'his' need to create a Man to tend it?
        >
        > Genesis 2:8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed... 15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
        >
      • Judy Weismonger
        If god was real, perfect, all knowing, all doing and able to leap tall planets at a single bound, then why did this god create so many screw ups? For what
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 1, 2010
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          If god was real, perfect, all knowing, all doing and able to leap tall planets at a single bound, then why did this god create so many screw ups? For what reason?
           
          I like what Madelyn Murray O'Hair said about god:
           
          We find the Bible to be nauseating, historically inaccurate, replete with the ravings of commandments. We find God to be sadistic, brutal, and a representation of hatred, vengeance ... This is not appropriate untouchable dicta to be forced on adult or child. The business of the public schools, where attendance is compulsory, is to prepare children to face the problems on earth, not to prepare for heaven - which is a delusional dream of the unsophisticated minds of the ill-educated clergy.
           
           
          I still find this true along with what other well known atheists have stated about religion:

          "The God of hell should be held in loathing, contempt and scorn. A God who threatens eternal pain should be hated, not loved; cursed, not worshipped. A heaven presided over by such a God must be below the meanest hell."
          Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1889)

          Ayn Rand: Qua religion, no—in the sense of blind belief, belief unsupported by, or contrary to, the facts of reality and the conclusions of reason. Faith, as such, is extremely detrimental to human life: it is the negation of reason....
          What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call [man’s] Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge—he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil—he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor—he became a productive being.

          He was sentenced to experience desire—he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy—all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he was—that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without love—he was not man.

          Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.

          They call it a morality of mercy and a doctrine of love for man.

          No, they say, they do not preach that man is evil, the evil is only that alien object: his body. No, they say, they do not wish to kill him, they only wish to make him lose his body. They seek to help him, they say, against his pain—and they point at the torture rack to which they’ve tied him, the rack with two wheels that pull him in opposite directions, the rack of the doctrine that splits his soul and body.

          Galt’s Speech, For the New Intellectual, 137. (Ayn Rand's Objectivist Philosophy)

          --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Swede <swedtomkt@...> wrote:


          From: Swede <swedtomkt@...>
          Subject: [A ChristianVsAtheist Club] If God 'WAS' Omnipotent, thus at peace....
          To: achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 7:20 AM


          ...Why did 'he' at some point, create an imperfect Eden, that necessitated 'his' need to create a Man to tend it?

          Genesis 2:8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed... 15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.



          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links








          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • mangummurdock
          Fool Judy, First you worms need to say what real is to you. Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 1, 2010
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            Fool Judy,
            First you worms need to say what 'real' is to you. Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined and the zombies is lost.

            mangum

            --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, Judy Weismonger <weismonger@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > If god was real, perfect, all knowing, all doing and able to leap tall planets at a single bound, then why did this god create so many screw ups? For what reason?
            >  
            > I like what Madelyn Murray O'Hair said about god:
            >  
            > We find the Bible to be nauseating, historically inaccurate, replete with the ravings of commandments. We find God to be sadistic, brutal, and a representation of hatred, vengeance ... This is not appropriate untouchable dicta to be forced on adult or child. The business of the public schools, where attendance is compulsory, is to prepare children to face the problems on earth, not to prepare for heaven - which is a delusional dream of the unsophisticated minds of the ill-educated clergy.
            >  
            >  
            > I still find this true along with what other well known atheists have stated about religion:
            >
            > "The God of hell should be held in loathing, contempt and scorn. A God who threatens eternal pain should be hated, not loved; cursed, not worshipped. A heaven presided over by such a God must be below the meanest hell."
            > Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1889)
            >
            > Ayn Rand: Qua religion, noâ€"in the sense of blind belief, belief unsupported by, or contrary to, the facts of reality and the conclusions of reason. Faith, as such, is extremely detrimental to human life: it is the negation of reason....
            > What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call [man’s] Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledgeâ€"he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evilâ€"he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his laborâ€"he became a productive being.
            >
            > He was sentenced to experience desireâ€"he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joyâ€"all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he wasâ€"that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without loveâ€"he was not man.
            >
            > Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.
            >
            > They call it a morality of mercy and a doctrine of love for man.
            >
            > No, they say, they do not preach that man is evil, the evil is only that alien object: his body. No, they say, they do not wish to kill him, they only wish to make him lose his body. They seek to help him, they say, against his painâ€"and they point at the torture rack to which they’ve tied him, the rack with two wheels that pull him in opposite directions, the rack of the doctrine that splits his soul and body.
            >
            > Galt’s Speech, For the New Intellectual, 137. (Ayn Rand's Objectivist Philosophy)
            >
            > --- On Sun, 8/1/10, Swede <swedtomkt@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > From: Swede <swedtomkt@...>
            > Subject: [A ChristianVsAtheist Club] If God 'WAS' Omnipotent, thus at peace....
            > To: achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Sunday, August 1, 2010, 7:20 AM
            >
            >
            > ...Why did 'he' at some point, create an imperfect Eden, that necessitated 'his' need to create a Man to tend it?
            >
            > Genesis 2:8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed... 15 The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • poopiethedemonslayer
            ... because you wont stfu! Romans 1:28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 1, 2010
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              --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, Judy Weismonger <weismonger@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > If god was real, perfect, all knowing, all doing and able to leap tall planets at a single bound, then why did this god create so many screw ups? For what reason?

              because you wont stfu!

              Romans 1:28
              Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.


              people like you are the ones that get people arrested, when cops pull you over, and instead of shutting up and saying sorry, you just blah blah blah in all caps without any self control!!

              ugh!! don't bother now, we are surely going to die because you simply couldn't stfu.

              as you were saying ........
            • Swede
              ... Sorry gummer, I see it as; Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined Zombies is lost.
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 2, 2010
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                --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, mangummurdock <no_reply@...> wrote:>
                >...Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined and the zombies is lost.--- mangum>

                Sorry gummer, I see it as; Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined Zombies is lost.

                ..snipped 4 brev....
              • mangummurdock
                Swede, Now that I can get my head around. But I still say it our understanding of what reality is that separates us. mangum
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 2, 2010
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                  Swede,
                  Now that I can get my head around. But I still say it our understanding of what reality is that separates us.

                  mangum

                  --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, "Swede" <swedtomkt@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, mangummurdock <no_reply@> wrote:>
                  > >...Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined and the zombies is lost.--- mangum>
                  >
                  > Sorry gummer, I see it as; Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined Zombies is lost.
                  >
                  > ..snipped 4 brev....
                  >
                • Judy Weismonger
                  But, the over arching egocentric, and narcissistic intent and focus of all the religious zombies like Mangum is to force us to believe in their reality
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 2, 2010
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                    But, the over arching egocentric, and narcissistic intent and focus of all the religious zombies like Mangum is to force us to believe in their "reality" which they can't prove exists. Mangummer is prime example of an OCD zombie who becomes outraged when his ego or  bizarre reality is threatened.

                    The more mangummer, etc. exposes how he and his cohorts are truly insane , the more they are unable to converse or discuss any aspect of their personal beliefs, proves conclusively they are truly insane.
                     
                    And...many in various disciplines are beginning to recognize that the religiously deluded and mentally ill...are in fact a danger to us because they vote. And to think that just a few decades ago, the religious dominated this culture and if we did not fit in they could get us fired, harassed, or punished in the name of their most benevolent god of love.
                     
                    There are still enclaves and factions who truly believe that in the near future they are going to turn this country back into a "christian" nation. Just how they are going to do that has yet to be explained. I can just see it now. Mangummer is charge of the Carry the Bible Law...and road blocks will be set up by the Christian Police to inspect all moving traffic and cars to see if we have a bible inside our cars. And the second or third time you are caught without a bible in your car, you will be arrested for violating god's laws and convicted, and sent to jail and re-education camps. (Yes, this occurred in Mao's China).
                     
                    I use to go to a small christian college for small christians....and it was absolutely "mandatory" that I attend church three times a week and engage in bible study...Tues and Thurs vespers and Sunday for three hours including the main service and Sunday school. Those who did not show up were assessed fines as points and if a student collected too many, then they were not allowed to leave their dorm in the evening.
                     
                    By the way, in this chrisitan school with grown up adult students age 20 to 21 years of age, we had a curfew of 10 PM....like little kids. It was such an insult to me that its a wonder I didn't become an Atheist at that time....but it took me 30 more years to finally get rid of my "myth speak" addiction to an imaginary god.
                     
                    AT this school, I was almost thrown out for just asking questions about religion...such as how do you know with any accuracy who wrote the books of the bible. My drama arts teacher told me that the entire faculty convened and voted on whether or not to throw me out of school for asking questions. Amazing.
                     
                    Religion is the most evil, nasty, fascist, oppressive dictatorial and insane philosophical and political movement on this planet and Mangum's hate toward us is a prime example of what he would do if he was in power....and Poopie is a prime example of the little religious zombies who would fall in line.
                     
                    These religious people are flat nuts....and just how nuts they are would be most evident in a very short time if they ever came to power. I've been watching the Christian political movements as well as when I was a Christian...paid very close attention to the christians' idea that they can indeed engage in a political fiat and take over this country....and what they would do if they were in power. Its not pretty.
                     
                    Listen closely to how much Mangum "hates" you...for every freedom that you cherish. Mangum wants us to be instinctive religious insects who have no individual thoughts or freedoms... Its amazing that he calls people who think and ask questions "insects."
                     
                    I can just see him sitting on some mountaintop in Arkansas with Nazi SS flags up, saluting a Christian Aryan nation flag...plotting and planning just what kind of revenge he was going to extract on all of us nonhuman, nonreligious insects he so hates. I grew up in the South....and there are millions of these insane people...who are only kept in check by federal laws and the US Supreme Court and the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.Mangum and his clan hate this country more than the Marxists, Liberals and Democrats...and is more dangerous.
                     
                    And....because these Christians know for a fact they dont' have a leg to stand on, they won't debate anyone.....they lurk about in such forums as this calling secularists names. I've volunteered to debate at least five local preachers and they have all declined. They know and I know they would lose and sound just silly. They can only preach to those who are hypnotized and good little mental slaves.
                     
                    Christian "Re-Constitutionalists" are the most evil of these religious groups who seek politically to remove all "secular" laws out of the US Bill of Rights...and institute "god's laws." Most all of these "god's laws" say to "kill nonbelievers" or those who believe differently. We've already had experiences with the Inquistion which lasted from the 8th Century on thru the 16th Century and murdered millions. Someone needs to ask Mangum if he'd like to begin the Inquisition again.
                     
                    Those of you who are believers or nonbelievers who don't think that religion won't or can't be oppressive if it ever came to power and will always be held in check by US secular law...has never been subjected to it. I have on a very personal level...and trust me, you would not like someone like Mangummer in charge of your life. You would be outraged.
                     
                    00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
                    "The God of hell should be held in loathing, contempt and scorn. A God who threatens eternal pain should be hated, not loved; cursed, not worshipped. A heaven presided over by such a God must be below the meanest hell."
                    Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1889)

                    Ayn Rand: Qua religion, no—in the sense of blind belief, belief unsupported by, or contrary to, the facts of reality and the conclusions of reason. Faith, as such, is extremely detrimental to human life: it is the negation of reason....
                    What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call [man’s] Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge—he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil—he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor—he became a productive being.

                    He was sentenced to experience desire—he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy—all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he was—that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without love—he was not man.

                    Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.

                    They call it a morality of mercy and a doctrine of love for man.

                    No, they say, they do not preach that man is evil, the evil is only that alien object: his body. No, they say, they do not wish to kill him, they only wish to make him lose his body. They seek to help him, they say, against his pain—and they point at the torture rack to which they’ve tied him, the rack with two wheels that pull him in opposite directions, the rack of the doctrine that splits his soul and body.

                    Galt’s Speech, For the New Intellectual, 137. (Ayn Rand's Objectivist Philosophy)

                    --- On Mon, 8/2/10, Swede <swedtomkt@...> wrote:


                    From: Swede <swedtomkt@...>
                    Subject: [A ChristianVsAtheist Club] Re: If God 'WAS' Omnipotent, then why no peace
                    To: achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 5:55 PM




                    --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, mangummurdock <no_reply@...> wrote:>
                    >...Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined and the zombies is lost.--- mangum>

                    Sorry gummer, I see it as; Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined Zombies is lost.

                    ..snipped 4 brev....



                    ------------------------------------

                    Yahoo! Groups Links








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Swede
                    ... As to your Ingersoll below, I finally realized I had only read his quotes. You probably have read his books but I ll include this url anyway. ;-) (hugs)
                    Message 9 of 10 , Aug 3, 2010
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                      --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, Judy Weismonger <weismonger@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > But, the over arching egocentric, and narcissistic intent and focus of all the religious zombies like Mangum is to force us to believe in their "reality" which they can't prove exists. Mangummer is prime example of an OCD zombie who becomes outraged when his ego or  bizarre reality is threatened.>

                      As to your Ingersoll below, I finally realized I had only read his quotes. You probably have read his books but I'll include this url anyway. ;-) (hugs)

                      http://www.archive.org/details/MN40110ucmf_3

                      swede









                      > The more mangummer, etc. exposes how he and his cohorts are truly insane , the more they are unable to converse or discuss any aspect of their personal beliefs, proves conclusively they are truly insane.
                      >  
                      > And...many in various disciplines are beginning to recognize that the religiously deluded and mentally ill...are in fact a danger to us because they vote. And to think that just a few decades ago, the religious dominated this culture and if we did not fit in they could get us fired, harassed, or punished in the name of their most benevolent god of love.
                      >  
                      > There are still enclaves and factions who truly believe that in the near future they are going to turn this country back into a "christian" nation. Just how they are going to do that has yet to be explained. I can just see it now. Mangummer is charge of the Carry the Bible Law...and road blocks will be set up by the Christian Police to inspect all moving traffic and cars to see if we have a bible inside our cars. And the second or third time you are caught without a bible in your car, you will be arrested for violating god's laws and convicted, and sent to jail and re-education camps. (Yes, this occurred in Mao's China).
                      >  
                      > I use to go to a small christian college for small christians....and it was absolutely "mandatory" that I attend church three times a week and engage in bible study...Tues and Thurs vespers and Sunday for three hours including the main service and Sunday school. Those who did not show up were assessed fines as points and if a student collected too many, then they were not allowed to leave their dorm in the evening.
                      >  
                      > By the way, in this chrisitan school with grown up adult students age 20 to 21 years of age, we had a curfew of 10 PM....like little kids. It was such an insult to me that its a wonder I didn't become an Atheist at that time....but it took me 30 more years to finally get rid of my "myth speak" addiction to an imaginary god.
                      >  
                      > AT this school, I was almost thrown out for just asking questions about religion...such as how do you know with any accuracy who wrote the books of the bible. My drama arts teacher told me that the entire faculty convened and voted on whether or not to throw me out of school for asking questions. Amazing.
                      >  
                      > Religion is the most evil, nasty, fascist, oppressive dictatorial and insane philosophical and political movement on this planet and Mangum's hate toward us is a prime example of what he would do if he was in power....and Poopie is a prime example of the little religious zombies who would fall in line.
                      >  
                      > These religious people are flat nuts....and just how nuts they are would be most evident in a very short time if they ever came to power. I've been watching the Christian political movements as well as when I was a Christian...paid very close attention to the christians' idea that they can indeed engage in a political fiat and take over this country....and what they would do if they were in power. Its not pretty.
                      >  
                      > Listen closely to how much Mangum "hates" you...for every freedom that you cherish. Mangum wants us to be instinctive religious insects who have no individual thoughts or freedoms... Its amazing that he calls people who think and ask questions "insects."
                      >  
                      > I can just see him sitting on some mountaintop in Arkansas with Nazi SS flags up, saluting a Christian Aryan nation flag...plotting and planning just what kind of revenge he was going to extract on all of us nonhuman, nonreligious insects he so hates. I grew up in the South....and there are millions of these insane people...who are only kept in check by federal laws and the US Supreme Court and the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.Mangum and his clan hate this country more than the Marxists, Liberals and Democrats...and is more dangerous.
                      >  
                      > And....because these Christians know for a fact they dont' have a leg to stand on, they won't debate anyone.....they lurk about in such forums as this calling secularists names. I've volunteered to debate at least five local preachers and they have all declined. They know and I know they would lose and sound just silly. They can only preach to those who are hypnotized and good little mental slaves.
                      >  
                      > Christian "Re-Constitutionalists" are the most evil of these religious groups who seek politically to remove all "secular" laws out of the US Bill of Rights...and institute "god's laws." Most all of these "god's laws" say to "kill nonbelievers" or those who believe differently. We've already had experiences with the Inquistion which lasted from the 8th Century on thru the 16th Century and murdered millions. Someone needs to ask Mangum if he'd like to begin the Inquisition again.
                      >  
                      > Those of you who are believers or nonbelievers who don't think that religion won't or can't be oppressive if it ever came to power and will always be held in check by US secular law...has never been subjected to it. I have on a very personal level...and trust me, you would not like someone like Mangummer in charge of your life. You would be outraged.
                      >  
                      > 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
                      > "The God of hell should be held in loathing, contempt and scorn. A God who threatens eternal pain should be hated, not loved; cursed, not worshipped. A heaven presided over by such a God must be below the meanest hell."
                      > Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1889)
                      >
                      > Ayn Rand: Qua religion, noâ€"in the sense of blind belief, belief unsupported by, or contrary to, the facts of reality and the conclusions of reason. Faith, as such, is extremely detrimental to human life: it is the negation of reason....
                      > What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call [man’s] Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledgeâ€"he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evilâ€"he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his laborâ€"he became a productive being.
                      >
                      > He was sentenced to experience desireâ€"he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joyâ€"all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he wasâ€"that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without loveâ€"he was not man.
                      >
                      > Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.
                      >
                      > They call it a morality of mercy and a doctrine of love for man.
                      >
                      > No, they say, they do not preach that man is evil, the evil is only that alien object: his body. No, they say, they do not wish to kill him, they only wish to make him lose his body. They seek to help him, they say, against his painâ€"and they point at the torture rack to which they’ve tied him, the rack with two wheels that pull him in opposite directions, the rack of the doctrine that splits his soul and body.
                      >
                      > Galt’s Speech, For the New Intellectual, 137. (Ayn Rand's Objectivist Philosophy)
                      >
                      > --- On Mon, 8/2/10, Swede <swedtomkt@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > From: Swede <swedtomkt@...>
                      > Subject: [A ChristianVsAtheist Club] Re: If God 'WAS' Omnipotent, then why no peace
                      > To: achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com
                      > Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 5:55 PM
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, mangummurdock <no_reply@> wrote:>
                      > >...Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined and the zombies is lost.--- mangum>
                      >
                      > Sorry gummer, I see it as; Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined Zombies is lost.
                      >
                      > ..snipped 4 brev....
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Jahoo Censorsyou
                      Thank you Swede...I m still researching who the original Atheists were and there were many. The sad part is that it has taken almost 5000 years to get the idea
                      Message 10 of 10 , Aug 4, 2010
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                        Thank you Swede...I'm still researching who the original Atheists were and there were many. The sad part is that it has taken almost 5000 years to get the idea that religious beliefs of all kinds translated into political dominance is very dangerous. 
                        Thomas Jefferson et all knew this as they knew the bloody and nasty history of the European church...and the US was the first country to state and put into law...that your own body, your individualism, and your material goods, and property are yours...because it your natural right as designed by the Creator Nature. 
                        Then along comes the 20th and 21st Century Church....which says that this is not a good idea that you should "lose" your body, you are a born sinner, and have rights except those given to you by god.....and that only those chosen to speak for god...are by divine right (of kings again)....the ones to whom you have to obey.
                        Just how such people speak for god is beyond me and won't tell me. Mangum is absolutely convinced he is god's avenging messenger and angel and if he had the chance he would murder and torture us enmasse. He is again, a prime example of just how really crazy and dangerous the religious are.
                        And those Christians the religious, including Moslems (the worst)....who are just little parrots and zombies...would go along with such a murderer as Mangum...and do nothing. 
                        I'm watching and interviewing college kids regarding their religious beliefs and a sea change is coming. I predict that in 20 years, religion will be something to be ashamed of...and certainly won't have as much power as they believe they have today. Why? Because what religion demands and promises is a murder of a free people.
                        It astounds me that Glenn Beck believes that the only way the US can defend itself from this Moslem Obama Thug...is to pray to an imaginary god. What is the difference between Islam and Christianity....nothing, What the Christians put out for publication is NOT what's in the bible. At least the Moslems are most often open and honest about taking over the world....and have now control of 1/3rd of the world....in just 1300 years by invasion and murder.
                        Obama's election was just one of the slickest tricks to ever have been pulled over the eyes of a free people...but Obama forgets, that Americans are quick learners and if he does not back off...we can turn on a dime and we will force him and his thugs out of office one way or another. 

                        --- On Tue, 8/3/10, Swede <swedtomkt@...> wrote:

                        From: Swede <swedtomkt@...>
                        Subject: [A ChristianVsAtheist Club] Re: CHRISTIAN ROAD BLOCKS OVER COME/Judy
                        To: achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Tuesday, August 3, 2010, 10:52 AM
















                         













                        --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, Judy Weismonger <weismonger@...> wrote:

                        >

                        > But, the over arching egocentric, and narcissistic intent and focus of all the religious zombies like Mangum is to force us to believe in their "reality" which they can't prove exists. Mangummer is prime example of an OCD zombie who becomes outraged when his ego or  bizarre reality is threatened.>



                        As to your Ingersoll below, I finally realized I had only read his quotes. You probably have read his books but I'll include this url anyway. ;-) (hugs)



                        http://www.archive.org/details/MN40110ucmf_3



                        swede



                        > The more mangummer, etc. exposes how he and his cohorts are truly insane , the more they are unable to converse or discuss any aspect of their personal beliefs, proves conclusively they are truly insane.

                        >  

                        > And...many in various disciplines are beginning to recognize that the religiously deluded and mentally ill...are in fact a danger to us because they vote. And to think that just a few decades ago, the religious dominated this culture and if we did not fit in they could get us fired, harassed, or punished in the name of their most benevolent god of love.

                        >  

                        > There are still enclaves and factions who truly believe that in the near future they are going to turn this country back into a "christian" nation. Just how they are going to do that has yet to be explained. I can just see it now. Mangummer is charge of the Carry the Bible Law...and road blocks will be set up by the Christian Police to inspect all moving traffic and cars to see if we have a bible inside our cars. And the second or third time you are caught without a bible in your car, you will be arrested for violating god's laws and convicted, and sent to jail and re-education camps. (Yes, this occurred in Mao's China).

                        >  

                        > I use to go to a small christian college for small christians....and it was absolutely "mandatory" that I attend church three times a week and engage in bible study...Tues and Thurs vespers and Sunday for three hours including the main service and Sunday school. Those who did not show up were assessed fines as points and if a student collected too many, then they were not allowed to leave their dorm in the evening.

                        >  

                        > By the way, in this chrisitan school with grown up adult students age 20 to 21 years of age, we had a curfew of 10 PM....like little kids. It was such an insult to me that its a wonder I didn't become an Atheist at that time....but it took me 30 more years to finally get rid of my "myth speak" addiction to an imaginary god.

                        >  

                        > AT this school, I was almost thrown out for just asking questions about religion...such as how do you know with any accuracy who wrote the books of the bible. My drama arts teacher told me that the entire faculty convened and voted on whether or not to throw me out of school for asking questions. Amazing.

                        >  

                        > Religion is the most evil, nasty, fascist, oppressive dictatorial and insane philosophical and political movement on this planet and Mangum's hate toward us is a prime example of what he would do if he was in power....and Poopie is a prime example of the little religious zombies who would fall in line.

                        >  

                        > These religious people are flat nuts....and just how nuts they are would be most evident in a very short time if they ever came to power. I've been watching the Christian political movements as well as when I was a Christian...paid very close attention to the christians' idea that they can indeed engage in a political fiat and take over this country....and what they would do if they were in power. Its not pretty.

                        >  

                        > Listen closely to how much Mangum "hates" you...for every freedom that you cherish. Mangum wants us to be instinctive religious insects who have no individual thoughts or freedoms... Its amazing that he calls people who think and ask questions "insects."

                        >  

                        > I can just see him sitting on some mountaintop in Arkansas with Nazi SS flags up, saluting a Christian Aryan nation flag...plotting and planning just what kind of revenge he was going to extract on all of us nonhuman, nonreligious insects he so hates. I grew up in the South....and there are millions of these insane people...who are only kept in check by federal laws and the US Supreme Court and the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.Mangum and his clan hate this country more than the Marxists, Liberals and Democrats...and is more dangerous.

                        >  

                        > And....because these Christians know for a fact they dont' have a leg to stand on, they won't debate anyone.....they lurk about in such forums as this calling secularists names. I've volunteered to debate at least five local preachers and they have all declined. They know and I know they would lose and sound just silly. They can only preach to those who are hypnotized and good little mental slaves.

                        >  

                        > Christian "Re-Constitutionalists" are the most evil of these religious groups who seek politically to remove all "secular" laws out of the US Bill of Rights...and institute "god's laws." Most all of these "god's laws" say to "kill nonbelievers" or those who believe differently. We've already had experiences with the Inquistion which lasted from the 8th Century on thru the 16th Century and murdered millions. Someone needs to ask Mangum if he'd like to begin the Inquisition again.

                        >  

                        > Those of you who are believers or nonbelievers who don't think that religion won't or can't be oppressive if it ever came to power and will always be held in check by US secular law...has never been subjected to it. I have on a very personal level...and trust me, you would not like someone like Mangummer in charge of your life. You would be outraged.

                        >  

                        > 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

                        > "The God of hell should be held in loathing, contempt and scorn. A God who threatens eternal pain should be hated, not loved; cursed, not worshipped. A heaven presided over by such a God must be below the meanest hell."

                        > Robert G. Ingersoll (1833-1889)

                        >

                        > Ayn Rand: Qua religion, noâ€"in the sense of blind belief, belief unsupported by, or contrary to, the facts of reality and the conclusions of reason. Faith, as such, is extremely detrimental to human life: it is the negation of reason....

                        > What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call [man’s] Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledgeâ€"he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evilâ€"he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his laborâ€"he became a productive being.

                        >

                        > He was sentenced to experience desireâ€"he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joyâ€"all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he wasâ€"that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without loveâ€"he was not man.

                        >

                        > Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.

                        >

                        > They call it a morality of mercy and a doctrine of love for man.

                        >

                        > No, they say, they do not preach that man is evil, the evil is only that alien object: his body. No, they say, they do not wish to kill him, they only wish to make him lose his body. They seek to help him, they say, against his painâ€"and they point at the torture rack to which they’ve tied him, the rack with two wheels that pull him in opposite directions, the rack of the doctrine that splits his soul and body.

                        >

                        > Galt’s Speech, For the New Intellectual, 137. (Ayn Rand's Objectivist Philosophy)

                        >

                        > --- On Mon, 8/2/10, Swede <swedtomkt@...> wrote:

                        >

                        >

                        > From: Swede <swedtomkt@...>

                        > Subject: [A ChristianVsAtheist Club] Re: If God 'WAS' Omnipotent, then why no peace

                        > To: achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com

                        > Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 5:55 PM

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        >

                        > --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, mangummurdock <no_reply@> wrote:>

                        > >...Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined and the zombies is lost.--- mangum>

                        >

                        > Sorry gummer, I see it as; Without a common understanding of what *reality* is all communication between the spiritually inclined Zombies is lost.

                        >

                        > ..snipped 4 brev....

                        >

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