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[A ChristianVsAtheist Club] Re: Immigration Gallop Poll

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  • lord_of_the_munch
    ... Nearly every monetary transaction includes some form of tax. Claiming they don t file Federal income tax is probably a plus since many wouldn t owe any
    Message 1 of 38 , May 1, 2010
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      --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, "The Dhampire LOGOS" <the_dhampire_logos@...> wrote:
      > Apparently many "illegals" are working in an underground economy. Losing these (cheap) laborers will affect the local economy. That being said, many illegals are also on "the dole", and siphoning off funds and pay no taxes themselves. (I've heard that some illegals pay taxes...if so, that would be a very weird scenario).

      Nearly every monetary transaction includes some form of tax. Claiming they don't file Federal income tax is probably a plus since many wouldn't owe any Federal income tax based on their level of income and may even have qualified for an earned income tax credit. The fact they don't pay payroll taxes also means their employer isn't paying their payroll taxes either. If they don't receive any Social Security benefits then that shouldn't be a huge issue either. Don't pay in and don't draw out.

      The economy depends on the velocity of money among other things. The more often a dollar changes hands the better it is for the overall economy. By creating obstacles to accessing labor, whether it's cheaper or not, they are slowing down the velocity of money.

      And what about the lost tax revenue because of the underground economy growing and distributing marijuana? What about the increased expense of enforcing the immigration and drug laws? If this were truly just a monetary problem we could solve it within a week. Rather than having an immigrant pay a coyote a few thousand dollars to take them across the border and leave them in the desert we could just charge them an entry fee to cross legally. And we wouldn't be driving so many to end up dying in the desert.

      > It's the seasonal workers that would be bringing US earned money to Mexico, but those that are there full time would be pumping money, (even "dole" money) into the local economy.

      Immigrants currently send upwards of $100B out of the country. That's both legal and illegal immigrants. We spend $40B on importing drugs alone. Both have a positive effect on US exports as more people are able to afford them. I don't think this is really a balance of trade issue though.

      > Whatever the reasons, their seems to be a lot of people in the state that want the borders controlled better than they are presently. Since they're *SUPPOSED* to be controlled, I don't see this as an unreasonable expectation.

      It's a fear based expectation. That fear is being fueled by the same folks who came up with the failed immigration and drug policies. When your plan isn't working, create fear.

      > What are the pros and cons of the law?
      > Well, the idea that it "allows profiling" is hyperbole to say the least. Yes, the ability to call ICE can be abused, but a cop who profiles is literally breaking the very law that many are protesting and want repealed. 'Seems that those who are raising hell about it are protesting cops more than they're protesting the literal law in question.

      I agree that hyperbole is butting up against reality, but in this case the hyperbole is from those saying it's illegal to racially profile in Arizona. In such instances I'm more likely to believe those who are being profiled rather than those who insist they weren't acting on the basis of race. It's a matter of whether you want to place more weight on what people say or do. Some of those who are protesting the law ARE the local cops. They are protesting for the benefit of their fellow cops among other reasons. They realize that disenfranchising a whole segment of the population isn't beneficial for law enforcement. The reason many Hispanics are opposed to this law is that they already know that the law against racial profiling is a joke.

      > One bad thing about it (that I haven't heard any TV pundits talk about yet) is that it presumes guilt until one proves oneself innocent. Yes, if one has a green card, one is required to carry it. Yes, if one is driving, one is required to carry a drivers license, vehicle registration, etc. Tennessee's drivers licenses say "SSN: ON FILE", so if I run a stop sign, Mr. Patrol Officer is going to "run my license" on his computer anyway. Viola: an SSN, as well as any outstanding warrants for my arrest.
      > However, if Jose walks to the local gas station to buy cigars and does something that an officer can consider reasonable suspicion, and he doesn't have his identification on him, then potentially he could be sitting in a slammer for a couple of hours until someone gets around to proving his innocence/that he's a citizen of the U.S. That's a problem since he's supposed to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

      There's also a small problem with national immigration policy being enforced by the State. As it is, local law enforcement turns over suspected illegal immigrants to the Federal government for processing. That might result in deportation or not. Now that has become a matter for the State to prosecute. The Constitution gives the power over Naturalization to the Federal government. The courts have ruled in the past that also includes immigration since one without the other would not be workable.

      > I'm curious how this will turn out in the end, but it seems that the feds show disdain towards any attempt to limit the influx of illegal aliens. 'Not a good sign I'm afraid.
      > LOGOS

      The Feds are constructing a fucking wall!! That's not exactly showing disdain for the influx of illegal immigrants. There is all sorts of high tech gear deployed along our southern border to detect and deter crossing it illegally. Part of the reason why these measures are ineffective is simply supply and demand. We have good paying jobs and they are willing to work. At the same time I hear people saying that Mexico should do more to improve their own economy to reduce the attraction of going to the US for work. But when it comes to moving low wage jobs from the US to Mexico those same people will voice their objection. We're just not very consistent at all. That tells me this is far more emotional than it is based on reason.

      There is also a reason why this is a problem on our southern border and not our northern border. Canada has a pretty liberal immigration policy and is the easier of the two borders to cross illegally. But there isn't a huge economic disparity between Canada and the US. We seem to think that economic disparity isn't the underlying problem. But that's exactly what it is and part of that is made worse by the racial and cultural aspects of it. I really hate to see Hispanics getting demonized in all this. A local Hispanic politician who has come out against this legislation is getting death threats. That's just fear. Fear fueled by ignorance.

      Here's some more news for you. The amount of money leaving the country actually went down during the recession. Due to the impact to the housing industry and the unemployment there the number of illegal immigrants crossing the border had dropped. So why this legislation now? Every successful politician needs an enemy. When the economy is down your elected position is in jeopardy. Better find an enemy and do something! Too bad they did something dumb.
    • Judy Weismonger
      Well, yeah, duh....with so much crime coming in from Mexico and illegal aliens, why this Democrat slime bag lying piece of shit, paid off fucking Democrat
      Message 38 of 38 , Jan 12, 2011
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        Well, yeah, duh....with so much crime coming in from Mexico and illegal aliens, why this Democrat slime bag lying piece of shit, paid off fucking Democrat Sheriff didn't have time to take care of or protect American citizens.....

        Sound thinking is the greatest virtue and wisdom: to speak the
        truth and to act on the basis of an understanding of the nature of things"--
        Heraclitus of Ephesus

        --- On Wed, 1/12/11, they_shoot_horses_dont_they2 <4db1-8nhx@...> wrote:

        From: they_shoot_horses_dont_they2 <4db1-8nhx@...>
        Subject: [A ChristianVsAtheist Club] Pima law(was) Re: Immigration Gallop Poll
        To: achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 8:46 PM

        Perhaps the
        recent shooting is a reflection of the ongoing news about
        Pima.  could the shooter have succeeded because of
        the infighting about immigration rather than
        looking at enforcing the laws they are paid to

        Interesting what is found when you research old posts
        for current events.


        > --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, mangummurdock <no_reply@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Arizona governor has become a hero to people such as I as it has forced an issue that has been neglected. Remember the French fries?
        > > 11 million illegals taking 7 million jobs.
        > >
        > > mangum
        > >
        > > --- In achristianvsatheistclub@yahoogroups.com, lord_of_the_munch <no_reply@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Unfortunately not even the voters in the State of Arizona may understand the impact of the law until their economy has already been damaged by it.  According to the Pima County sheriff they were already arresting and turning over more illegal aliens to the INS than any other county in the country.  Thanks to the recent legislation those arrested will now be processed through the State courts at a considerable cost to taxpayers.  In addition many companies are cancelling their plans for holding business meetings in Arizona.  Even a NY based company selling iced teas under the Arizona brand has been inadvertently hit by boycotts.
        > > >
        > > > This is the cost of anger.
        > > >
        > > > And now the fuckballs in Georgia want to do the same thing.  Because it's working out so well for Arizona??  Wtf??
        > > >
        > > > Manifest destiny is over.  It was a pipe dream based on the same sort of narcissism as found in the bible.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >


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