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Re: [ACWDYG ] Stress Is a Desire of the Ego

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  • Sandra Soraya Alzona
    Well... I guess that s precisely Wayne Dyer s point. If one equates ego with being bad/evil, it might just be a bit hard to accept. Is it wrong to feel
    Message 1 of 60 , Jul 2, 2006
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      Well... I guess that's precisely Wayne Dyer's point. If one equates
      ego with being bad/evil, it might just be a bit hard to accept. Is
      it wrong to feel anxious? Who knows, you're having a gut feeling
      about something? But if it's habitual anxiety, you probably already
      know that it's not healthy. If you've been through Vipassana
      meditation, for example, that's exactly when the ego is being
      addressed, DURING meditation. We don't necessarily feel good or
      relaxed just sitting down for, say, ten days. The biggest pains come
      to the fore and it can be quite stressful. It comes only after
      constant practice when the relaxation throughout one's life occurs.

      There are many people in the world who feel useless without stress.
      Stress has caused more pain and only ego can cause that. Although a
      cure or any healing method that reverses it can also be stressful.

      It's OK to disagree with Wayne Dyer although I see his meaning it in
      a totally different context. As you know, ego is defined in so many
      ways. And perhaps this is not for people who were born with heart
      ailments, if you know what I mean? But for people who were totally
      healthy, heavily conditioned and then actually created this for
      themselves. Another is, those who have the same traits through their
      DNA as with those who passed it onto them.

      There have been scientific discoveries and new technologies that can
      already detect a murderer from childhood. So if these traits are
      already there, it doesn't seem to be anybody's fault, wachathink?
      But it's still ego, and ego defined simply and as its most basic -
      FEAR.

      Namaste,
      Sands

      PS: again...

      You are peace and joy, but you've allowed
      your ego to dominate your life. Here's a short list
      of stress-inducing thoughts that originate in your ego self:

      It's more important to be right than to be happy.
      Winning is the only thing. When you lose, you
      should be stressed.
      Your reputation is more important than your
      relationship with your
      Source.

      Wayne Dyer


      --- In achangewilldoyougood@yahoogroups.com, Ann Layton
      <annzyleighton2004@...> wrote:
      >
      > I DISAGREEE!!!!!!!!!!!!I have anxiety that just comes
      > on from when I am at my most relaxed state. It has
      > nothing to do with ego. So your saying all these
      > people dying from heart attacks have high egos. No!!
      > That is bullcrap!!!
      >
    • Sandra Soraya Alzona
      Hello Vanessa, I think egocentrics is a pedestrian term compared to the study of ego itself, and personally I m slanted toward the healing
      Message 60 of 60 , Jul 6, 2006
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        Hello Vanessa,

        I think "egocentrics" is a pedestrian term compared to the study of
        ego itself, and personally I'm slanted toward the healing
        arts/metaphysics/spirituality, transpersonal, transcedental and a
        little bit of hypnosis. It CAN be a label if one uses it as a label,
        but it's not. If issues were the body, ego is dissected as if it
        were the heart of it. It's serious stuff. There are belief systems
        that call for the complete eradication of it and others that call for
        mere mastery of it. For example, telling apart the mien from the man
        is good enough (masks/persona), but for others, the mask must not be
        there (monks). Depends on how far you want to go on your path. I'm
        not so much into Freud, and thus I don't get much into the Id, but it
        doesn't diminish the fact that he's very helpful reference. I've
        much admiration for the works of Carl Jung and Campbell.

        There are major surgeries in the West being done now under hypnosis,
        without anesthesia. You may google that. The extent of this is
        limitless, but not for everybody. If somebody doesn't want it, you
        can just imagine how this won't work. So there goes your professor's
        statement: It depends. Precisely.

        There's a whole lot of difference, too, with attitudes and beliefs
        about it. Meditation, for example, is not grasped in the west the
        same way as in the east. In the east, this is very simple - you
        sit. It's more about "sitting," while the west is an acheiver about
        it. It's something to "achieve" and depending on who you're talking
        to, it may sound very demanding. What's great about it, however, is
        all the effort of the west to analyze this.

        People already in the self-help level are comfortable with ego
        because, as you might know, this puts a lot of responsibility in
        one's own life. Not very good? Depends. There are clients who have
        to work through their own belief systems first, like, "How can I be
        dysfunctional in my marriage when I pray everyday?" Stuff like
        that. Or, "You don't know what I've been through" - is a classic.
        You won't believe how many times me and my counterparts have heard
        this. And, "But the sex is really good, you know, and when we're mad
        it just gets better." These are statements that come out from people
        from different walks in life that doesn't really point to very
        specific social classes, religions and cultures.

        Namaste,
        Sands


        --- In achangewilldoyougood@yahoogroups.com, "Vanessa Madrazo"
        <vmadrazo@...> wrote:
        >
        > I just don't know if it's a good thing to be using labels such as
        > "resenters" or "egocentrics" etc etc. I mean, I think it's a bit
        simplistic
        > to think that panic related illness or depression can be reduced to
        > egocentrism. After classes in psychology, including abnormal,
        abnormal
        > child, developmental, and specifically psychopathology and
        assesment, I
        > think it's important to consider the interactional component of
        things re:
        > person and environment in terms of abnormality in mental health.
        >
        > We do not exist in a vacuum. The theory that is most linked to the
        opinions
        > that you've stated would be Cognitive Behavioral, which feels that
        thoughts
        > (Cognitions) are related to our mood (Affect) and can have an
        impact on our
        > Behavior. This is one theory, but not the only theory on
        psychopathology.
        > There is a biological theory that holds genetics to have a strong
        component;
        > psychoanalytic theory holds childhood experiences to be a strong
        component;
        > attachment theory holds bonds within our early family experiences
        to be a
        > strong component; behaviorism holds reinforcement to be a strong
        component,
        > and so on.
        >
        > Given the immense complexity of our being, and the fact that
        someone can
        > enter a hospital and receive an artificial knee and be released
        from the
        > hospital the next day but if that same person were to have a
        psychotic
        > expisode would not be realsed for a minimum of ten days, I assert
        that we
        > must use caution when reducing matters of the mind to one thing or
        the
        > other. There is a reason why most patients with mental illness are
        treated
        > with multiple medications- sometimes 4 sometimes more. There is
        also a
        > reason why meds alone do not work, but that meds and psychotherapy
        are most
        > always the most effective means of treatment.
        >
        > There's also a reason why my professor's most favorite phrase
        is "it
        > depends".
        >
        >
        >
        > >From: Ian Stephenson <widow_twanky1@...>
        > >Reply-To: achangewilldoyougood@yahoogroups.com
        > >To: achangewilldoyougood@yahoogroups.com
        > >Subject: Re: [ACWDYG ] Re: Stress Is a Desire of the Ego
        > >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 00:25:28 -0700 (PDT)
        > >
        > >Hi Guys,
        > >
        > > I've resigned from the debating society.. but I've been
        thinking..
        > >
        > > I...I...I
        > >
        > > It is almost a universal law that the extent of egocentrism in
        any
        > >person is proportional to the amount of pain in him or her {
        Fear ? }.. It
        > >is a question of ATTENTION, we cannot give a great deal of
        attention to
        > >ourselves and to others simultaniously. We have only a limited
        amount of
        > >attention that we can confer. The destructive or diminishing part
        of our
        > >pain is that it magnetizes attention to ourselves and to the area
        of our
        > >pain.Those who are suffering from anything from toothache to old
        age tend
        > >to egocentrism. Preocupation with self often evolves into
        hypochondria {
        > >over concern with health } or PARANOIA { persecution complex }
        > >
        > > People cannot fashion themselves to be the centre of the
        universe and
        > >then live comfortably with the fact that that others do not accept
        them as
        > >such. Whatever pains our past programming has left in us { guilt,
        > >inferiority, anxiety, fear and so on }, these pains will
        inevitably lead us
        > >into all the pitfalls of egocentrism. Egocentrics do not mind what
        the
        > >conversation is about as long as it is about them. Eventually,
        they will
        > >fall into depression because living in such a restricted world is
        living in
        > >a prison. They will suffer more than others who must live or work
        with
        > >them..
        > >
        > > It is hard for most of us to believe this, but people who
        have " short
        > >fuses " and give forth loud noises { ie capital letters used other
        than
        > >occasionally } are frequently reacting to some supposed grievance,
        but the
        > >supposed grievance is not what is really bothering them. As they
        cannot
        > >openly discuss the real source of anger they are simply letting
        off steam
        > >and their explosions can rarely be taken at face value. What is
        smoldering
        > >in there subconscious is a buried hostility. People are usually
        much more
        > >hostile than they realise. We usually repress our real resentment
        because
        > >our society has conditioned us to believe that hostility is
        unbecoming in
        > >socialised, civilised human beings..
        > >
        > > Resenters resent the success and happiness of others because
        they're
        > >unhappy, resenters use all their energies resenting and therefore
        they
        > >usually accomplish very little { there is no room left for
        anything else !
        > >} resentfull people are forever trying to bring their case before
        the court
        > >of life, hoping that the jury of others will aquit them of their
        failures..
        > >
        > > No one's feelings are caused by others !!!!!. Our feelings are
        caused by
        > >our own emotional response, our own choices and reactions.
        Resenters have
        > >little or no self respect, they keep fighting battles they cannot
        win,
        > >rehashing and adding too some real or imagined slight,they have
        spent their
        > >lives employing a failure mechanism and they somehow know it...
        Resentment
        > >is a cop-out...
        > >
        > > Sorry,
        > > but that is the way I am...
        > > I was like this in the beggining, am now, and ever shall be...
        > >
        > > Is a handy motto and delusion to have around you if you don't
        want to
        > >grow up... IF NOTHING CHANGES THEN NOTHING CHANGES...
        > >
        > > Love and myGgwy Ian S...
        > >
        > >Sandra Soraya Alzona <strawb203@...> wrote:
        > > Haha. How "positive" of you! How "selfless"! Ann, YOU
        are not
        > >the
        > >topic. Too much self-importance here, and thus TOO egotistic. But
        > >anyway, to save your face, okay, I really do admire your having
        gone
        > >through all that and I'm sure you wear it like a badge of honor to
        > >have survived through it.
        > >
        > >Of course you will NEVER say you LIKE having panic attacks because
        > >that will break all the rules of YOUR egoic game. That's all too
        > >understandable to me.
        > >
        > >So, miss know-it-all, what else do you know that we don't?
        > >
        > >Namaste,
        > >Sands
        > >
        > >--- In achangewilldoyougood@yahoogroups.com, Ann Layton
        > ><annzyleighton2004@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Dear KNOW-NOTHING,
        > > > You--YOUHAVE THE VERY BIG EGO IF YOU CAN TELL ME THAT
        > > > I LIKE TO HAVE PANIC ATTACKS--YOU IDIOT!!I AM SPECIAL
        > > > BECAUSE I HAVE SURVIVED THEM SO FAR!!!Youhave a lot of
        > > > books about ego___why the hell would you have all the
        > > > books there is about ego unless you're pretty bored
        > > > and obviously you've read them too because you have
        > > > developed yours well..To me your letter sounds a lot
        > > > about YOU YOU YOUand since you think I enjoy and like
        > > > having panic attacks--Keep reading your book about
        > > > philos[hy and EGOS which yours is showing in this
        > > > letter. I never said I like having panic attacks and
        > > > if your jealous about the limelight maybe you should
        > > > have one so you can know what you are talking about.
        > > > They are hell and Hell has nothing to do with stress
        > > > or having a High ego about it.Sandra shut up and put
        > > > the facts where they are and go read your EGO
        > > > books.Ann
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- Sandra Soraya Alzona <strawb203@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > Oh, Ann. You have a very big ego. You LIKE having
        > > > > panic attacks.
        > > > > It makes you special. I can tell you the same thing
        > > > > and say I have
        > > > > all the books about EGO.
        > > > >
        > > > > The subject we are on is NOT YOUR PANIC ATTACKS.
        > > > > It's STRESS IS A
        > > > > DESIRE OF THE EGO. See how you have unconsciously
        > > > > moved the subject
        > > > > to YOU, YOU, YOU?
        > > > >
        > > > > Namaste,
        > > > > Sands
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In achangewilldoyougood@yahoogroups.com, Ann
        > > > > Layton
        > > > > <annzyleighton2004@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Your the one wallowing in self pity. I went to
        > > > > > Al-Anaon and AA because I have friends who are
        > > > > > alcoholics and I know and have known people
        > > > > addicted
        > > > > > to drugs. My fiance goes to AA so that is why I
        > > > > went
        > > > > > and I have the Alcoholics Annonymous books.Sounds
        > > > > like
        > > > > > you hate the world because you want a drink and
        > > > > duh
        > > > > > duh duh----THE SUBJECT WE ARE ON WAS PANIC ATTACKS
        > > > > AND
        > > > > > HOW YOU THINK EGO HAS SOMETHING TO DO WITH THEM.
        > > > > I
        > > > > > DOUBT SERIOUSLY YOU'LL STOP YOUR PEEING AT THIS
        > > > > POINT
        > > > > > BECAUSE YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY DRUNK YOURSELF IF YOU
        > > > > THINK
        > > > > > THE SUBJECT IS ABOUT AA!!!!!!!!!.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- Ian Stephenson <widow_twanky1@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > > Why were you at AA and AL-ANON and why did you
        > > > > stop
        > > > > > > going, do you no longer need them ? addictions
        > > > > in
        > > > > > > the past.. You have NO idea what sort of shoes
        > > > > I've
        > > > > > > walked in, you presume too much, where do you
        > > > > get
        > > > > > > the idea that I'm calling you a liar ? If I was
        > > > > > > calling you a liar you would see the word liar
        > > > > in
        > > > > > > print, at the moment it's just between your
        > > > > ears,
        > > > > > > over defensive reaction, gives you a chance to
        > > > > try
        > > > > > > to deflect and point a finger.. Deal with your
        > > > > > > problem instead of sidestepping by pointing
        > > > > fingers
        > > > > > > at others, you allow yourself to get angry
        > > > > because
        > > > > > > it makes you feel good both physically and
        > > > > > > emotionally { Put him in his place didn't I ? }
        > > > > I
        > > > > > > personally don't think you have any idea about
        > > > > what
        > > > > > > you believe in.. I am not responsible for what
        > > > > you
        > > > > > > think I'm responsible for what I do.. Why don't
        > > > > you
        > > > > > > just let go ? got to be right at any cost ?
        > > > > constant
        > > > > > > repitition and as a point if you've been to AA,
        > > > > do
        > > > > > > you work the steps ? if you do you will know
        > > > > that
        > > > > > > getting and staying clean and
        > > > > > > SOBER { Sober is not just not drinking } is
        > > > > > > infinately more difficult than going through the
        > > > > > > shakes and cravings and is for life not just for
        > > > > a
        > > > > > > couple of weeks.. It may help if you stopped
        > > > > with
        > > > > > > the poor me's as well, stop wallowing in your
        > > > > own
        > > > > > > self pity and get positive.. Get some help.. I
        > > > > shall
        > > > > > > stop this pee'ing contest as it's both time
        > > > > > > consuming and going nowhere.. Love and myGgwy
        > > > > Ian
        > > > > > > S...
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > Ann Layton <annzyleighton2004@> wrote:
        > > > > > > I have also been to AA groups and Al-Anon
        > > > > groups
        > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > have had addictions in the past. Shut up is be
        > > > > cause
        > > > > > > you haven't walked in my shoes and had panic
        > > > > > > attacks.
        > > > > > > You might have had the alcoholic shakes and the
        > > > > > > cravings and I know and have known people who
        > > > > lived
        > > > > > > on
        > > > > > > the street and they have comforted me through
        > > > > these
        > > > > > > panic attacks. Your Trials are totally different
        > > > > > > than
        > > > > > > my and to disagree with what I said when I live
        > > > > it
        > > > > > > is
        > > > > > > like calling me a liar so
        > > > > > > I will get angry. It is called defending
        > > > > yourself
        > > > > > > because you believe in yourself.I have went
        > > > > through
        > > > > > > addictions in the past and I evan go to AA
        > > > > meetings
        > > > > > > but I felt You were calling me a liar.I have
        > > > > > > actually
        > > > > > > had anxiety come on in a relaxed state and until
        > > > > you
        > > > > > > have had this experience don't sound like you
        > > > > are
        > > > > > > calling me a liar.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- Ian Stephenson <widow_twanky1@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > It's easier to yell " shut up " at someone
        > > > > than to
        > > > > > > > try to understand what's being said isn't it
        > > > > ?, I
        > > > > > > > understand that you are full of fear, how do
        > > > > you
        > > > > > > > know that as a recovered alcoholic/addict I
        > > > > didn't
        > > > > > > > go through EXACTLT the same stuff that you are
        > > > > > > > experiencing, addiction is a form of
        > > > > insanity,I
        > > > > > > was
        > > > > > > > at one moment moving around in a drug/alcohol
        > > > > > > fueled
        > > > > > > > hell living under a bridge and the next I was
        > > > > > > being
        > > > > > > > invited to bite off and digest great chunks of
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > > truth about myself and deal with it without
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > > chemical crutch I'd relied on for years,I had
        > > > > to
        > > > > > > > walk into the totally unknown and put my trust
        > > > > and
        > > > > > > > my life in the hands of a bunch of total
        > > > > strangers
        > > > > > > > and a power greater than myself, I was also in
        > > > > the
        > > > > > > > special forces so how do you think that you
        > > > > can
        > > > > > > lay
        > > > > > > > it all out for me ? you have NO idea of where
        > > > > I've
        > > > > > > > been either mentally or physically, keep your
        > > > > side
        > > > > > > > of the street clean and I'll do the best I can
        > > > > to
        > > > > > > to
        > > > > > > > do the same.. If you don't want to hear other
        > > > > > > > people's thoughts and
        > > > > > > > opinions then take your own advice and don't
        > > > > post
        > > > > > > > ie " Shut up " your very elequent words not
        > > > > mine
        > > > > > > and
        > > > > > > > you might want to consider what is written to
        > > > > you
        > > > > > > > and what your reply might be instead of "
        > > > > Running
        > > > > > > > your own big mouth " if you actually pay
        > > > > attention
        > > > > > > > to what people say you might learn something,
        > > > > I do
        > > > > > > > EVERY day.... I've been there, done that AND
        > > > > got
        > > > > > > the
        > > > > > > > " T " shirt you can point all that anger and
        > > > > > > > frustration at me if it makes you feel better
        > > > > but
        > > > > > > in
        > > > > > > > the long run you are the one that it will
        > > > > destroy,
        > > > > > > I
        > > > > > > > am not the least bit perturbed by your
        > > > > outbursts I
        > > > > > > > just wish I could help you get into a better
        > > > > state
        > > > > > > > of mind.. If you look back I said I had
        > > > > trouble
        > > > > > > with
        > > > > > > > how someone could be anxious in a most relaxed
        > > > > > > state
        > > > > > > > all it needed was an explanation not a
        > > > > tantrum..
        > > > >
        > > > === message truncated ===
        > > >
        > > >
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