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Re: paul hughes-barlow

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  • David Stolowitz
    Yea, I agree with Athena - it sounds like he hasn t even read the book. He totally misconstrues and misunderstands the entire concept of the HGA. I have a ton
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 21, 2010
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      Yea, I agree with Athena - it sounds like he hasn't even read the book. He totally misconstrues and misunderstands the entire concept of the HGA. I have a ton of spirits at my command and there are over 365 of them in Abramelin alone. And while the connection does honor to Jesus, it isn't all about him - its about us and God.

      Of course you don't NEED this operation to work with spirits, but I think it can only help you along your path.
    • Taliesin
      this is one of paul s points i was going to address: he says he has never done the abramelin operation, but he has worked a lot with spirits and they have come
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 22, 2010
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        this is one of paul's points i was going to address:
        he says he has never done the abramelin operation, but he has worked a lot with spirits and they have come to him. he doesnt conjure them in the traditional goetic/abramelinic sense. he says they (the goetia/jinn) want to work with humans and are not evil and conjuring them only makes them angry and unwilling to cooperate, but they are actually good natured. i read on athena's site that she said something similar about them actually being very cooperative and there is no need for the hellfire and damnation aspects of conjuration. correct me if i'm wrong athena...

        tlg

        --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "David Stolowitz" <david@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yea, I agree with Athena - it sounds like he hasn't even read the book. He totally misconstrues and misunderstands the entire concept of the HGA. I have a ton of spirits at my command and there are over 365 of them in Abramelin alone. And while the connection does honor to Jesus, it isn't all about him - its about us and God.
        >
        > Of course you don't NEED this operation to work with spirits, but I think it can only help you along your path.
        >
      • Khem Caigan
        ... ... I suggest that everyone here subscribing to this opinion go back and actually /read/ the *Lemegeton*, so that they may see just how wrong it is
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 22, 2010
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          Daniel Culver doth schreibble :
          >
          <SNIPS>
          > There is nowhere in the greater or lesser keys of Solomon that instructs
          > you to obtain your knowledge and conversation of your HGA.

          I suggest that everyone here subscribing to
          this opinion go back and actually /read/
          the *Lemegeton*, so that they may see just
          how wrong it is for themselves :

          *The Second Part of the Art Pauline.*

          " Which containeth the Mystical names of
          the Angels of the signs in general, and
          also the names of the Angels of every
          degree and the signs in general who are
          called the angels of men: because in
          some one of those signs and degrees,
          every man is born under. Therefore he
          that knoweth the moment of his Birth
          he may know the angel that governeth
          him [by the following art]: and thereby
          he may obtain to all arts and sciences,
          yea to all ye wisdom and knowledge that
          any mortal man can desire in this world..."

          *The Conjuration of the Holy Guardian Angel*

          " O thou great and blessed N. my angel guardian,
          vouchsafe to descend from thy holy mansion
          which is Celestial, with thy holy Influence
          and presence, into this crystal stone, that
          I may behold thy glory; and enjoy thy society,
          aid and assistance, both now and for ever
          hereafter.

          O thou who art higher than the fourth heaven,
          and knoweth the secrets of Elanel. Thou that
          rideth upon the wings of the winds and art
          mighty and potent in thy Celestial and
          superlunary motion, do thou descend and be
          present I pray thee; and I humbly desire
          and entreat thee. That if ever I have merited
          Thy society or if any of my actions and
          Intentions be real and pure & sanctified
          before thee bring thy external presence
          hither, and converse with me one of thy
          submissive pupils, By and in the name of
          the great god Jehovah, whereunto the whole
          choir of heaven singeth continually :
          O Mappa la man Hallelujah. Amen. "

          ~ from :

          *The Lemegeton, or*
          *The Lesser Key of Solomon :*
          *Book 3 : The Pauline Art*
          @ EsotericArchives.com
          http://tinyurl.com/d58se

          Cors in Manu Domine,


          ~ Khem Caigan
          <Khem@...>

          " Every Angel who is an Archon of the
          zodiacal sign (/sar mazzal/) of a person
          when it is sent below has the image of
          the person who is under it....

          And this is the meaning of 'And God
          created man in His image, in the image
          of God He created him' (Gen. 1:27).

          Why is [it written] twice, 'in His image'
          and 'in the image'?

          One image refers to the image of man and
          the other to the image of the Angel of
          the zodiacal sign that is in the image
          of the man. "

          ~ from:
          *Hokhmah ha-Nefesh*,
          by R. Eleazar of Worms

          [ Note : /mazzal/ means constellation,
          planet, planetary influence, destiny,
          and guardian angel.

          It is associated with the root *MZL*, meaning
          "to flow", which, in the *Zohar*, refers to
          the flow emanating from the divine phallus,
          comprised by the spheres from Binah through
          Yesod.

          Yesod conveys this flow to the Shekinah,
          engendering the souls of the newborn. ]
        • David Stolowitz
          Well of course they want to work with humans - its more power to them. They are a tricky bunch though, and regardless of their intentions (which are
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 22, 2010
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            Well of course they want to work with humans - its more power to them. They are a tricky bunch though, and regardless of their intentions (which are notoriously difficult to pin down), they often lack the bigger perspective of things.

            Any time you start thinking these spirits are so great, just make them tell you how they fell. That'll clear things right up!
          • daniel c
            So if that prayer has the same effect as the result of the abramelin working, what is the point of doing the whole operation? That sounds more like a prayer
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 22, 2010
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              So if that prayer has the same effect as the result of the abramelin working, what is the point of doing the whole operation? That sounds more like a prayer asking the angel to be present and bless the task at hand?


              --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Khem Caigan <Khem@...> wrote:
              >
              > Daniel Culver doth schreibble :
              > >
              > <SNIPS>
              > > There is nowhere in the greater or lesser keys of Solomon that instructs
              > > you to obtain your knowledge and conversation of your HGA.
              >
              > I suggest that everyone here subscribing to
              > this opinion go back and actually /read/
              > the *Lemegeton*, so that they may see just
              > how wrong it is for themselves :
              >
              > *The Second Part of the Art Pauline.*
              >
              > " Which containeth the Mystical names of
              > the Angels of the signs in general, and
              > also the names of the Angels of every
              > degree and the signs in general who are
              > called the angels of men: because in
              > some one of those signs and degrees,
              > every man is born under. Therefore he
              > that knoweth the moment of his Birth
              > he may know the angel that governeth
              > him [by the following art]: and thereby
              > he may obtain to all arts and sciences,
              > yea to all ye wisdom and knowledge that
              > any mortal man can desire in this world..."
              >
              > *The Conjuration of the Holy Guardian Angel*
              >
              > " O thou great and blessed N. my angel guardian,
              > vouchsafe to descend from thy holy mansion
              > which is Celestial, with thy holy Influence
              > and presence, into this crystal stone, that
              > I may behold thy glory; and enjoy thy society,
              > aid and assistance, both now and for ever
              > hereafter.
              >
              > O thou who art higher than the fourth heaven,
              > and knoweth the secrets of Elanel. Thou that
              > rideth upon the wings of the winds and art
              > mighty and potent in thy Celestial and
              > superlunary motion, do thou descend and be
              > present I pray thee; and I humbly desire
              > and entreat thee. That if ever I have merited
              > Thy society or if any of my actions and
              > Intentions be real and pure & sanctified
              > before thee bring thy external presence
              > hither, and converse with me one of thy
              > submissive pupils, By and in the name of
              > the great god Jehovah, whereunto the whole
              > choir of heaven singeth continually :
              > O Mappa la man Hallelujah. Amen. "
              >
              > ~ from :
              >
              > *The Lemegeton, or*
              > *The Lesser Key of Solomon :*
              > *Book 3 : The Pauline Art*
              > @ EsotericArchives.com
              > http://tinyurl.com/d58se
              >
              > Cors in Manu Domine,
              >
              >
              > ~ Khem Caigan
              > <Khem@...>
              >
              > " Every Angel who is an Archon of the
              > zodiacal sign (/sar mazzal/) of a person
              > when it is sent below has the image of
              > the person who is under it....
              >
              > And this is the meaning of 'And God
              > created man in His image, in the image
              > of God He created him' (Gen. 1:27).
              >
              > Why is [it written] twice, 'in His image'
              > and 'in the image'?
              >
              > One image refers to the image of man and
              > the other to the image of the Angel of
              > the zodiacal sign that is in the image
              > of the man. "
              >
              > ~ from:
              > *Hokhmah ha-Nefesh*,
              > by R. Eleazar of Worms
              >
              > [ Note : /mazzal/ means constellation,
              > planet, planetary influence, destiny,
              > and guardian angel.
              >
              > It is associated with the root *MZL*, meaning
              > "to flow", which, in the *Zohar*, refers to
              > the flow emanating from the divine phallus,
              > comprised by the spheres from Binah through
              > Yesod.
              >
              > Yesod conveys this flow to the Shekinah,
              > engendering the souls of the newborn. ]
              >
            • Khem Caigan
              ... Read it again : ...that I may behold thy glory; and enjoy thy society, aid and assistance, /both now and forever hereafter/. And that is just /one/
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 22, 2010
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                Daniel Culver doth schreibble :
                >
                > So if that prayer has the same effect as the result of the abramelin<sic>
                > working, what is the point of doing the whole operation? That sounds more
                > like a prayer asking the angel to be present and bless the task at hand?

                Read it again :

                "...that I may behold thy glory; and enjoy thy society,
                aid and assistance, /both now and forever hereafter/. "

                And that is just /one/ version of
                the prayer, from only /one/ of the
                versions of the *Lemegeton*.

                Once you begin to go through the
                manuscripts of the various grimoires
                that are available from libraries around
                the world, you will find that nearly all
                of the texts have been abbreviated in
                places - for example, the Almadel up on
                Joe's site only addresses the four directions
                and seasons, instead of all twelve signs of
                the zodiac that we find in other versions.

                You will also find differences in the
                instructions regarding purification and
                purging and sequestration, and in how often
                one is to perform certain operations.

                But the point of doing the whole operation,
                whichever operation that may be for you,
                remains exactly the same.

                Cors in Manu Domine,


                ~ Khem Caigan
                <Khem@...>

                " Every Angel who is an Archon of the
                zodiacal sign (/sar mazzal/) of a person
                when it is sent below has the image of
                the person who is under it....

                And this is the meaning of 'And God
                created man in His image, in the image
                of God He created him' (Gen. 1:27).

                Why is [it written] twice, 'in His image'
                and 'in the image'?

                One image refers to the image of man and
                the other to the image of the Angel of
                the zodiacal sign that is in the image
                of the man. "

                ~ from:
                *Hokhmah ha-Nefesh*,
                by R. Eleazar of Worms

                [ Note : /mazzal/ means constellation,
                planet, planetary influence, destiny,
                and guardian angel.

                It is associated with the root *MZL*, meaning
                "to flow", which, in the *Zohar*, refers to
                the flow emanating from the divine phallus,
                comprised by the spheres from Binah through
                Yesod.

                Yesod conveys this flow to the Shekinah,
                engendering the souls of the newborn.
              • daniel c
                That didn t really answer my question, but thanks for the info
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 22, 2010
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                  That didn't really answer my question, but thanks for the info

                  --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Khem Caigan <Khem@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Daniel Culver doth schreibble :
                  > >
                  > > So if that prayer has the same effect as the result of the abramelin<sic>
                  > > working, what is the point of doing the whole operation? That sounds more
                  > > like a prayer asking the angel to be present and bless the task at hand?
                  >
                  > Read it again :
                  >
                  > "...that I may behold thy glory; and enjoy thy society,
                  > aid and assistance, /both now and forever hereafter/. "
                  >
                  > And that is just /one/ version of
                  > the prayer, from only /one/ of the
                  > versions of the *Lemegeton*.
                  >
                  > Once you begin to go through the
                  > manuscripts of the various grimoires
                  > that are available from libraries around
                  > the world, you will find that nearly all
                  > of the texts have been abbreviated in
                  > places - for example, the Almadel up on
                  > Joe's site only addresses the four directions
                  > and seasons, instead of all twelve signs of
                  > the zodiac that we find in other versions.
                  >
                  > You will also find differences in the
                  > instructions regarding purification and
                  > purging and sequestration, and in how often
                  > one is to perform certain operations.
                  >
                  > But the point of doing the whole operation,
                  > whichever operation that may be for you,
                  > remains exactly the same.
                  >
                  > Cors in Manu Domine,
                  >
                  >
                  > ~ Khem Caigan
                  > <Khem@...>
                  >
                  > " Every Angel who is an Archon of the
                  > zodiacal sign (/sar mazzal/) of a person
                  > when it is sent below has the image of
                  > the person who is under it....
                  >
                  > And this is the meaning of 'And God
                  > created man in His image, in the image
                  > of God He created him' (Gen. 1:27).
                  >
                  > Why is [it written] twice, 'in His image'
                  > and 'in the image'?
                  >
                  > One image refers to the image of man and
                  > the other to the image of the Angel of
                  > the zodiacal sign that is in the image
                  > of the man. "
                  >
                  > ~ from:
                  > *Hokhmah ha-Nefesh*,
                  > by R. Eleazar of Worms
                  >
                  > [ Note : /mazzal/ means constellation,
                  > planet, planetary influence, destiny,
                  > and guardian angel.
                  >
                  > It is associated with the root *MZL*, meaning
                  > "to flow", which, in the *Zohar*, refers to
                  > the flow emanating from the divine phallus,
                  > comprised by the spheres from Binah through
                  > Yesod.
                  >
                  > Yesod conveys this flow to the Shekinah,
                  > engendering the souls of the newborn.
                  >
                • georg_dehn
                  that guy has quite some knowledge, but he seems a bit jealous. Subconsciously, a spirit talks out of him, it is the ghost of his master. He relates to his
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 26, 2010
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                    that guy has quite some knowledge,

                    but he seems a bit jealous. Subconsciously, a spirit talks out of him, it is the ghost of his master. He relates to his Guru, he talks much about Jesus Christ, he is not in the state of having independend personal communication.

                    It is hard to judge over somebody like that, but I feel his confusion and urge to hold his own believe structure free of influence.

                    Georg




                    --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "David Stolowitz" <david@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Well of course they want to work with humans - its more power to them. They are a tricky bunch though, and regardless of their intentions (which are notoriously difficult to pin down), they often lack the bigger perspective of things.
                    >
                    > Any time you start thinking these spirits are so great, just make them tell you how they fell. That'll clear things right up!
                    >
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