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Re: [abramelin] Re: Sin

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  • Athena
    I m not Georg, but I believe it would be very appropriate and very helpful during the working :). I did asana, pranayama and a few postures during my working
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 2, 2009
      I'm not Georg, but I believe it would be very appropriate and very helpful during the working :).  I did asana, pranayama and a few postures during my working and found them to help immensely. 

      Athena
      --
      www.enochian.org

      On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:16 AM, daniel culver <danielson_07@...> wrote:


      Thanks Georg.
       
      Great response as usual. That is really interesting you joined hare krishna temple.. I am extremely drawn to hinduism- particularly bhakti and laya yoga. It might be from all the hellfire and brimstone that I forced into my head from numerous readings of the q'uran during my sufi practice, but I am extremely deterred from abrahamic religions thereafter.
       
       I felt like, because of the sin doctrine, I was forcing myself to feel guilty about thoughts,impulses or behaviors in my life because of my desire to be more 'correct' or not 'go to hell'. But then once I took initiation from a shaykh and had a slight emotional breakdown, I realized that all doesn't really matter quite as much as how you work on yourself. After that I abandoned all ideas of organized religion and stopped practicing altogether- eventually coming to magic/occult practice where I found the abramelin to be something I could obtain esoteric knowledge through without the cult-ish aspect of modern esoteric groups. This post topic of sin was essentially to see if any of you, post operation, came to any unexpected conclusions on the idea..
       
      But your mention of the hare krishna temple leads me to a question I had in the back of my mind a little while- would laya (kriya,kundalini etc) yoga be inappropriate to practice before/during/after the abramelin working?

    • daniel
      Thanks Athena. Good to hear that worked out for you. I was just concerned with the result of combining the experiences of kundalini(laya yoga) and abramelin
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 2, 2009
        Thanks Athena.
        Good to hear that worked out for you. I was just concerned with the result of combining the experiences of kundalini(laya yoga) and abramelin simultaneously.. It might actually prove to be a help and not a hindrance.



        --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Athena <oipteaapdoce@...> wrote:
        >
        > I'm not Georg, but I believe it would be very appropriate and very helpful
        > during the working :). I did asana, pranayama and a few postures during my
        > working and found them to help immensely.
        >
        > Athena
      • Athena
        Well the reason I felt it helped is that there was no system, or dogma, or Gods, or anything involved accept just breathing and being... so nothing to get in
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 2, 2009
          Well the reason I felt it helped is that there was no system, or dogma, or Gods, or anything involved accept just breathing and being... so nothing to get in the way :).

          Athena
          --
          www.enochian.org

          On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:59 AM, daniel <danielson_07@...> wrote:


          Thanks Athena.
          Good to hear that worked out for you. I was just concerned with the result of combining the experiences of kundalini(laya yoga) and abramelin simultaneously.. It might actually prove to be a help and not a hindrance.




        • Khem Caigan
          In his commentary on Genesis 6.2, Philo of Alexandria says that the beings described as angels by Moses (aggeloi) are referred to as daemons (daimonia) by the
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 3, 2009
            In his commentary on Genesis 6.2, Philo of
            Alexandria says that the beings described as
            angels by Moses (aggeloi) are referred to as
            daemons (daimonia) by the Greek philosophers :

            " Those beings, whom other philosophers call
            demons, Moses usually calls angels; and they
            are souls hovering in the air.

            And let no one suppose, that what is here stated
            is a fable, for it is necessarily true that the
            universe must be filled with living things in all
            its parts, since every one of its primary and
            elementary portions contains its appropriate animals
            and such as are consistent with its nature; --the
            earth containing terrestrial animals, the sea and
            the rivers containing aquatic animals, and the
            fire such as are born in the fire (but it is said,
            that such as these last are found chiefly in
            Macedonia), and the heaven containing the stars:
            for these also are entire souls pervading the
            universe, being unadulterated and divine, inasmuch
            as they move in a circle, which is the kind of motion
            most akin to the mind, for every one of them is the
            parent mind.

            It is therefore necessary that the air also should
            be full of living beings.

            And these beings are invisible to us, inasmuch as
            the air itself is not visible to mortal sight.

            But it does not follow, because our sight is
            incapable of perceiving the forms of souls, that
            for that reason there are no souls in the air;
            but it follows of necessity that they must be
            comprehended by the mind, in order that like may
            be contemplated by like. "

            - Philo of Alexandria , *On the Giants* II: 6-9.

            See also :

            Arcana Mundi
            by Georg Luck,
            page 207.
            ( Preview @GoogleBooks )
            http://tinyurl.com/oufowf

            Angels are demons are angels...

            Cors in Manu Domine,


            ~ Khem Caigan
            <Khem@...>

            " Every Angel who is an Archon of the
            zodiacal sign (sar mazzal) of a person
            when it is sent below has the image of
            the person who is under it....

            And this is the meaning of 'And God
            created man in His image, in the image
            of God He created him' (Gen. 1:27).

            Why is [it written] twice, 'in His image'
            and 'in the image'?

            One image refers to the image of man and
            the other to the image of the Angel of
            the zodiacal sign that is in the image
            of the man. "

            ~ from:
            *Hokhmah ha-Nefesh*,
            by R. Eleazar of Worms
          • Voltaire07
            Sorry Daniel, I have not been a Devotee, that means living in the temple. I meant visiting, practicing the Bhakti and learning about the Indian philosphy.
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 4, 2009
              Sorry Daniel,

              I have not been a Devotee, that means living in the temple. I meant
              visiting, practicing the Bhakti and learning about the Indian philosphy.
              Where I really have been initiated, is in a Thai temple. But there was
              no time for meditation, because it was a real indegene temple and the
              brothers watched homeworks of elderless children, cared lost
              monkey-babies and thrown over the monastery wall dogs and cats. And they
              grew tea and herbs and taught me Thai astrology and I had a "wonderful"
              experience of destroying my ego: The Alchemist made an essence of herbs
              which is the cure for almost everything. Based on urin of cows. Maybe it
              is another aspect of getting rid of passions. . .

              The interesting question with the Hare Krishna was, like as Buddha: Do I
              follow a leader?
              I couldn't get out of that feeling at least as long as Prabhupada lived.
              But it was the devotees. Buddha was something else, I never felt guilty,
              after having bowed my knee in the temple.
              Abramelin is more "one of us" and he says, never follow leaders, more or
              less. The book points out so much, that You have to have Your own
              experience, that means it leaves You free.

              But to answer Your question. No discipline is inappropriate, it is only
              the question I mentioned above. Who stands behind the discipline, does
              anybody exploite minds, souls - purces? If Your teacher is a Guru und
              doesn't give Your coins You have to pay him to poor people of the town,
              I would kick him in the ass.

              best wishes
              Georg
            • daniel
              No discipline is inappropriate, it is only ... Well said Georg. I could understand how you wouldn t feel guilty in a buddhist temple- its not like they re
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 11, 2009
                No discipline is inappropriate, it is only
                > the question I mentioned above. Who stands behind the discipline, does
                > anybody exploite minds, souls - purces? If Your teacher is a Guru und
                > doesn't give Your coins You have to pay him to poor people of the town,
                > I would kick him in the ass.
                >
                > best wishes
                > Georg
                >


                Well said Georg. I could understand how you wouldn't feel 'guilty' in a buddhist temple- its not like they're out to convert you! Do you think prabhupada is in it for the money and followers?

                I'm not sure I've asked- Have you completed the 18 month operation?
              • Voltaire07
                hi, I consider Prabhupada and the ISKCON as a serious organization. At the end I got enough information to know, that Prabhupada was an idealist and not out
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 23, 2009
                  hi,

                  I consider Prabhupada and the ISKCON as a serious
                  organization. At the
                  end I got enough information to know, that Prabhupada was an
                  idealist
                  and not out for money at all. And above all knowing, You
                  feel his
                  presence and purity as somebody who devoted his life for a
                  higher task,
                  without any false intention like influencing peoples
                  personality or so.

                  The question about my experience arose earlier, but I can
                  answer it again.
                  It was simply after several years of experiencing practise
                  in different
                  disciplines. Yoga was the most intensive, but really intense
                  and
                  different tries like witchcraft, Wicca, KaHuna, Nichiren
                  Shoshu (the Nam
                  Myoho Renge Kyo). And right in the middle that meeting of
                  an entity
                  without name, that came again and quite a few tiomes over
                  the years and
                  meanwhile when Iam in the right mood, comes if asked.

                  So when I got to know the Abramelin stuff, the Mathers
                  retranslation
                  into german, I was informed this is not the thing. I wasn't
                  warned, this
                  was dangerous, no it just has not been the thing. It was
                  reduced to
                  "exchangeable format". So I knew it from 1976 to 1980 and
                  found the
                  Hammer printed version, which wowed me out. Sorry, Iam not
                  so familiar
                  with english emotional expression. Then I knew, that what I had
                  experienced since almost ten years, was the HGA. He never
                  told me, but
                  now I knew it.

                  This is why I say, it depends on Your own traditions.
                  Fortunately I was
                  far away enough from my old christian thing, so I could at
                  least say, it
                  was an entity without name. If I would've been more in my
                  families
                  influence and even subconsciously I would have had a proper
                  name in
                  mind, not knowing this mind is only ratio.

                  But on the second hand, after all these years, I just said
                  hello to that
                  guy and knew, the ritual is not my thing again. Maybe it was
                  it in
                  another lifetime.

                  so long
                  Georg
                • obarrbo
                  I agree about Prabhupada. I like him and I think he was genuine in what he wanted to do, which was mainly to bring his Vishnu/Krishna related practice to the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 23, 2009
                    I agree about Prabhupada. I like him and I think he was genuine in what he wanted to do, which was mainly to bring his Vishnu/Krishna related practice to the west and help out people in America and the Western world in general. I did have mixed feelings since some of the Krishna's I've met, and some of the things I've read, has a "the only way is Krishna" vibe, but I still like them. Even though I'm not into any religion or path being the only way to enlightenment or peace, I respect these people who are able to live so dedicated in their way of life.

                    I'm mainly into Hinduism and even alot of Mainstream Hindus I've met like Prabhupada's translation of the Bhagavad Gita and own copies.

                    --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Voltaire07 <voltaire07@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > hi,
                    >
                    > I consider Prabhupada and the ISKCON as a serious
                    > organization. At the
                    > end I got enough information to know, that Prabhupada was an
                    > idealist
                    > and not out for money at all. And above all knowing, You
                    > feel his
                    > presence and purity as somebody who devoted his life for a
                    > higher task,
                    > without any false intention like influencing peoples
                    > personality or so.
                    >
                    > The question about my experience arose earlier, but I can
                    > answer it again.
                    > It was simply after several years of experiencing practise
                    > in different
                    > disciplines. Yoga was the most intensive, but really intense
                    > and
                    > different tries like witchcraft, Wicca, KaHuna, Nichiren
                    > Shoshu (the Nam
                    > Myoho Renge Kyo). And right in the middle that meeting of
                    > an entity
                    > without name, that came again and quite a few tiomes over
                    > the years and
                    > meanwhile when Iam in the right mood, comes if asked.
                    >
                    > So when I got to know the Abramelin stuff, the Mathers
                    > retranslation
                    > into german, I was informed this is not the thing. I wasn't
                    > warned, this
                    > was dangerous, no it just has not been the thing. It was
                    > reduced to
                    > "exchangeable format". So I knew it from 1976 to 1980 and
                    > found the
                    > Hammer printed version, which wowed me out. Sorry, Iam not
                    > so familiar
                    > with english emotional expression. Then I knew, that what I had
                    > experienced since almost ten years, was the HGA. He never
                    > told me, but
                    > now I knew it.
                    >
                    > This is why I say, it depends on Your own traditions.
                    > Fortunately I was
                    > far away enough from my old christian thing, so I could at
                    > least say, it
                    > was an entity without name. If I would've been more in my
                    > families
                    > influence and even subconsciously I would have had a proper
                    > name in
                    > mind, not knowing this mind is only ratio.
                    >
                    > But on the second hand, after all these years, I just said
                    > hello to that
                    > guy and knew, the ritual is not my thing again. Maybe it was
                    > it in
                    > another lifetime.
                    >
                    > so long
                    > Georg
                    >
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