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Re: [abramelin] Re: Dark Side of the Moon

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  • Georg Dehn
    thank You for the flowers. It was my own thought, but it s nice to be in an interesting family. But be honest, is this the way You want to tell me I am in the
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1, 2009
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      thank You for the flowers.
      It was my own thought, but it's nice to be in an interesting
      family.

      But be honest, is this the way You want to tell me I am in
      the wrong Newsgroup ;-) ?

      No chance, Goethe has no broadband in Weimar and Shaw sold
      his shares of Yahoo, they don't give him a new account.

      So let's go on talking about ghosts of dead people

      Georg



      Khem Caigan schrieb:
      >
      >
      > Georg Dehn doth schreibble :
      > >
      > > what is Your subconscious concept that You always run
      > > desperate for organized religions? They are the same disease
      > > as political parties. Sorry.
      >
      > I have heard the like before - Max Muller
      > famously decried /all/ religion as a "disease
      > of language", and Richard Dawkins agrees with
      > him, likening religion to "the smallpox virus,
      > but harder to eradicate."
      >
      > William Burroughs went still further, when
      > he steadfastly maintained that "language
      > is a virus."
      >
      > Plato, on the other hand, took the view that
      > "atheism is a disease."
      >
      > And then, of course, there is the opinion of
      > George Bernard Shaw, who maintained that life
      > itself is a disease - Heinz Pagels basically
      > agrees with him, specifying that "life is a
      > disease /of matter/" < this last sentiment
      > being variously attributed to/shared by Gerald
      > Feinberg and Johann Wolfgang von Goethe >.
      >
      > There are any number of final solutions on
      > offer, and the cure always looks rather a
      > lot like death all 'round.
      >
      > Pucker up for the 'Mors Osculi', the final
      > Union with G-d!
      >
      > The Kiss of Love and Death
      > by Dieter Borchmeyer <.PDF>
      > http://tinyurl.com/c57wwa <http://tinyurl.com/c57wwa>
      >
      > Cors in Manu Domine,
      >
      > ~ Khem Caigan
      > <Khem@... <mailto:Khem%40ZAPGARDEN.com>>
      >
      > " Every Angel who is an Archon of the
      > zodiacal sign (sar mazzal) of a person
      > when it is sent below has the image of
      > the person who is under it....
      >
      > And this is the meaning of 'And God
      > created man in His image, in the image
      > of God He created him' (Gen. 1:27).
      >
      > Why is [it written] twice, 'in His image'
      > and 'in the image'?
      >
      > One image refers to the image of man and
      > the other to the image of the Angel of
      > the zodiacal sign that is in the image
      > of the man. "
      >
      > ~ from:
      > *Hokhmah ha-Nefesh*,
      > by Rabbi Eleazar of Worms
      >
      >
    • Khem Caigan
      ... Rumors of Richard Dawkins demise have been greatly exaggerated ;) Cors in Manu Domine, ~ Khem Caigan Through the first death, which
      Message 2 of 15 , Mar 1, 2009
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        Georg Dehn doth schreibble :
        >
        > So let's go on talking about ghosts of dead people

        Rumors of Richard Dawkins' demise have been
        greatly exaggerated ;)

        Cors in Manu Domine,


        ~ Khem Caigan
        <Khem@...>

        "Through the first death, which is only a
        detachment of the soul from the body...the
        lover may see the beloved celestial Venus
        ...and by reflecting on her divine image,
        nourish his purified eyes with joy; but if
        he would possess her more closely, he must
        die the second death by which he is completely
        severed from the body...And observe that the
        most perfect and intimate union the lover
        can have with the celestial beloved is called
        the union of the kiss ( "morte de bacio" or
        "mors osculi")... and because the learned
        Kabbalists declare that many of the ancient
        fathers died in such spiritual rapture..."
        ~ Pico Della Mirandola, Commento 111, viii
        ( ed. Garin IV, iv page 557 )
      • hwhydog
        Hi Georg I would like to comment on three paragraphs from your text: PARA ONE So in english it should be called work of the last hand . There is no choice
        Message 3 of 15 , Mar 3, 2009
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          Hi Georg

          I would like to comment on three paragraphs from your text:

          PARA ONE
          So in english it should be called "work of the last hand".
          There is no choice between six and eighteen months. Six
          months is merely wrong.

          PARA TWO
          This is the base of
          all. Abraham, on several different occasions throughout the
          book gives clear hints, which things and certain parts of
          the operation can be left out.

          PARA THREE
          We're in an entirely new age since 1400. What we have to
          discuss is not, which parts of the work are necessary and
          which are not. Abraham touches many levels of personal
          initiation and he doesn't tell which is higher or lower.
          Everybody finds experience to his personal needs.

          I agree that your book is the latest and best researched available
          translation available for this thirteenth century document.
          Nonetheless, as you mentioned [quoted above] there are parts that are
          not necessary AND we live several centuries later, in one of the
          fastest changing times both socially and technologically ever.

          I also agree with your comment that Abramelin touches on many levels
          of PERSONAL INITIATION, we have to find our own way amidst the
          recommendations. My interest lies in extracting / isolating /
          interpreting the core elements of the rite and examining these. This
          especially as the 18 month period is not 18 months of isolation, but
          is broken up into a number of different components with social
          isolation taking place in varying degrees as the rite progresses.

          Comments from others in this regard will be appreciated, especially
          in isolating those core traits that make the rite successful.
          Although to be honest – I'm not sure whether reefer has its own HGA
          experience or endows the Abramelin working?

          SRD



          --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Georg Dehn <gd@...> wrote:
          > So in english it should be called "work of the last hand".
          > There is no choice between six and eighteen months. Six
          > months is merely wrong.
          >

          > We're in an entirely new age since 1400. What we have to
          > discuss is not, which parts of the work are necessary and
          > which are not. Abraham touches many levels of personal
          > initiation and he doesn't tell which is higher or lower.
          > Everybody finds experience to his personal needs.
          >
          > What we have to find out today are the new laws, the laws of
          > our own consciuosness. The Abramelin is a basic work to get
          > on. He was between religious fronts that we nowadays have
          > the liberty to neglect.
          >
        • Scarlet Magdalene
          I don t think so. But don t be all rebellious, bitter, and at odds with it either. Reconcile. Be in that sorta We came to a truce and an understanding, but we
          Message 4 of 15 , Mar 3, 2009
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            I don't think so. But don't be all rebellious, bitter, and at odds with it either. Reconcile. Be in that sorta "We came to a truce and an understanding, but we don't necessarily have to be buddy-buddy or even much on speaking terms."

            I was never really raised in my birth religion and it wasn't Christianity, either (reform Judaism). So I'm kacking that whole angsty bitterness I see so often from fellow pagans and others who came from monotheistic backgrounds. YHVH and I are cool with each other, however. I don't feel a sense of animosity from him nor do I have any towards him. It's basically at that civil, polite sorta respect thing. Not a big.


            -sm

            On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 2:29 PM, daniel <danielson_07@...> wrote:
            I guess the main issue would have to be: Should I try to get over it
            and practice the religion of my childhood or not? I just don't find the
            holy trinity concept very appealing or effective in spiritual
            application for me.. :\
            --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "daniel" <danielson_07@...> wrote:
            >
            > Excellent suggestions everyone, thanks! I have already looked into
            > ignatius' spiritual exercises.. See- I still have a problem with the
            > holy trinity theology and it's theories of interceding on behalf of
            > someone. It might be due to the fact that I had previously accepted
            > islam (and so many repititions of la ilaha ilallah,muhammadun
            rasululah-
            > there is only one god and muhammad is his messenger), but I just
            can't
            > get into it. I feel like it is purposely limiting God to a mundane
            > level. Plus it still feels quite pagan- and paganism is on the very
            > bottom of my 'spiritual and theological interests' list.. So, I'm not
            > sure how much hope there is for me getting back into christianity
            again.
            >




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