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  • hwhydog
    Athena, I wish to query your comment. How many are doing the Abramelin working over 18 months? SRD ... other ... do a ... topic; not ... prayers into ...
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 24, 2009
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      Athena,

      I wish to query your comment. How many are doing the Abramelin
      working over 18 months?

      SRD





      --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Athena <oipteaapdoce@...> wrote:
      >
      > I don't recommend it. Abramelin is not a system to go mixing *any*
      other
      > system into, at all. I say this from personal experience. If you
      do a
      > search of the archives you will find previous discussions on this
      topic; not
      > GD specific, but about bringing other magical systems and/or
      prayers into
      > the working.
      >
      > Athena
      > --
      > www.enochian.org
      >
      > On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 3:28 PM, thewingsofcorvus <
      > thewingsofcorvus@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Hey
      > >
      > > I'm new to group, just I would introduce myself.
      > >
      > > I've been practicing magic for the last five years, Mainly GD and
      Crowley.
      > >
      > > I read Mather's translation of the Abremelin ritual a few years
      back,
      > > just got my hands on the Dehn translation. I'm really interested
      in
      > > performing the ritual.
      > >
      > > What I really wanted to know is, can you use the GD ritual's as
      > > supplement's to the prayer's and if so how?
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Odo cicle qaa
      > --
      > www.enochian.org
      >
    • templumkat
      Hello By Our Work we are Changed. I would second Athena s comment with regard to the question on supplementing the prayers by G.D. rituals and also point out
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 24, 2009
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        Hello

        By Our Work we are Changed.

        I would second Athena's comment with regard to the question
        on "supplementing" the prayers by G.D. rituals and also point out
        that the fervent prayer required by the Operation does not allow time
        nor psychic space nor neccesity for other modalities.

        The Operation is a self-extracting system that unpacks itself to the
        environment of the Operator; should supplements be required, they
        will be informed to the Operator as the Operation progresses.

        Following the instructions as given, with, as they say on the radio
        show, "Just a Minute", no "deviation, repetition or hesitation" is
        essential.

        The Worker is hidden in the Workshop

        Marcus Katz
        http://www.farawaycentre.com


        --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
        <thewingsofcorvus@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hey
        >
        > I'm new to group, just I would introduce myself.
        >
        > I've been practicing magic for the last five years, Mainly GD and
        Crowley.
        >
        > I read Mather's translation of the Abremelin ritual a few years
        back,
        > just got my hands on the Dehn translation. I'm really interested in
        > performing the ritual.
        >
        > What I really wanted to know is, can you use the GD ritual's as
        > supplement's to the prayer's and if so how?
        >
      • thewingsofcorvus
        Thank you Marcus and Athena for the insight. You pretty much Summed up what I was feeling.
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 24, 2009
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          Thank you Marcus and Athena for the insight. You pretty much Summed up
          what I was feeling.


          --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "templumkat" <marcus@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello
          >
          > By Our Work we are Changed.
          >
          > I would second Athena's comment with regard to the question
          > on "supplementing" the prayers by G.D. rituals and also point out
          > that the fervent prayer required by the Operation does not allow time
          > nor psychic space nor neccesity for other modalities.
          >
          > The Operation is a self-extracting system that unpacks itself to the
          > environment of the Operator; should supplements be required, they
          > will be informed to the Operator as the Operation progresses.
          >
          > Following the instructions as given, with, as they say on the radio
          > show, "Just a Minute", no "deviation, repetition or hesitation" is
          > essential.
          >
          > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
          >
          > Marcus Katz
          > http://www.farawaycentre.com
          >
          >
          > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
          > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hey
          > >
          > > I'm new to group, just I would introduce myself.
          > >
          > > I've been practicing magic for the last five years, Mainly GD and
          > Crowley.
          > >
          > > I read Mather's translation of the Abremelin ritual a few years
          > back,
          > > just got my hands on the Dehn translation. I'm really interested in
          > > performing the ritual.
          > >
          > > What I really wanted to know is, can you use the GD ritual's as
          > > supplement's to the prayer's and if so how?
          > >
          >
        • hwhydog
          So are you doing the 18 month version or Mathers? SRD ... up ... time ... the ... radio ... is ... and ... interested in
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 25, 2009
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            So are you doing the 18 month version or Mathers?

            SRD

            --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
            <thewingsofcorvus@...> wrote:
            >
            > Thank you Marcus and Athena for the insight. You pretty much Summed
            up
            > what I was feeling.
            >
            >
            > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "templumkat" <marcus@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello
            > >
            > > By Our Work we are Changed.
            > >
            > > I would second Athena's comment with regard to the question
            > > on "supplementing" the prayers by G.D. rituals and also point out
            > > that the fervent prayer required by the Operation does not allow
            time
            > > nor psychic space nor neccesity for other modalities.
            > >
            > > The Operation is a self-extracting system that unpacks itself to
            the
            > > environment of the Operator; should supplements be required, they
            > > will be informed to the Operator as the Operation progresses.
            > >
            > > Following the instructions as given, with, as they say on the
            radio
            > > show, "Just a Minute", no "deviation, repetition or hesitation"
            is
            > > essential.
            > >
            > > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
            > >
            > > Marcus Katz
            > > http://www.farawaycentre.com
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
            > > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hey
            > > >
            > > > I'm new to group, just I would introduce myself.
            > > >
            > > > I've been practicing magic for the last five years, Mainly GD
            and
            > > Crowley.
            > > >
            > > > I read Mather's translation of the Abremelin ritual a few years
            > > back,
            > > > just got my hands on the Dehn translation. I'm really
            interested in
            > > > performing the ritual.
            > > >
            > > > What I really wanted to know is, can you use the GD ritual's as
            > > > supplement's to the prayer's and if so how?
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • thewingsofcorvus
            Hard to say at the moment. In truth I ve only recently started looking at the Dehn translation of the ritual. I am however considering it. I m in the position
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 25, 2009
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              Hard to say at the moment. In truth I've only recently started looking
              at the Dehn translation of the ritual.

              I am however considering it. I'm in the position where I can take the
              full 6 months off for the end of the operation, and doing the first
              year would not be a stretch... I would have to abandon my other
              studies though which would be hard.

              Has anyone done the full 18 months?


              --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "hwhydog" <shaendorling@...> wrote:
              >
              > So are you doing the 18 month version or Mathers?
              >
              > SRD
              >
              > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
              > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Thank you Marcus and Athena for the insight. You pretty much Summed
              > up
              > > what I was feeling.
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "templumkat" <marcus@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hello
              > > >
              > > > By Our Work we are Changed.
              > > >
              > > > I would second Athena's comment with regard to the question
              > > > on "supplementing" the prayers by G.D. rituals and also point out
              > > > that the fervent prayer required by the Operation does not allow
              > time
              > > > nor psychic space nor neccesity for other modalities.
              > > >
              > > > The Operation is a self-extracting system that unpacks itself to
              > the
              > > > environment of the Operator; should supplements be required, they
              > > > will be informed to the Operator as the Operation progresses.
              > > >
              > > > Following the instructions as given, with, as they say on the
              > radio
              > > > show, "Just a Minute", no "deviation, repetition or hesitation"
              > is
              > > > essential.
              > > >
              > > > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
              > > >
              > > > Marcus Katz
              > > > http://www.farawaycentre.com
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
              > > > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hey
              > > > >
              > > > > I'm new to group, just I would introduce myself.
              > > > >
              > > > > I've been practicing magic for the last five years, Mainly GD
              > and
              > > > Crowley.
              > > > >
              > > > > I read Mather's translation of the Abremelin ritual a few years
              > > > back,
              > > > > just got my hands on the Dehn translation. I'm really
              > interested in
              > > > > performing the ritual.
              > > > >
              > > > > What I really wanted to know is, can you use the GD ritual's as
              > > > > supplement's to the prayer's and if so how?
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
            • hwhydog
              I m sort of tagging along from your first comments about adding in other aspects of magick and then Athena s comment against mixing in other systems. Well
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 27, 2009
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                I'm sort of tagging along from your first comments about adding in
                other aspects of "magick" and then "Athena's" comment against mixing
                in other systems. Well can you just imagine having completed the
                Mathers 6 month version only to find out that new material such as
                the Dehn translation indicates that the whole Abramelin document by
                Mathers was crap?

                Talk about adding in, it would indicate that not only is it worse
                than "mixing" with other systems, but the whole rite was a waste of
                time and needs to be repeated, especially following "Athena's"
                experience of the 18 month initiation. If "Athena" did not do the 18
                month initiation, well … that experience indicates that completely
                altered systems which have omitted 60% of the work may actually work.
                Makes think that if the Mathers method has left the initiated with
                success – that mixed systems can work, or the subjective experience
                was an internal lie.





                --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
                <thewingsofcorvus@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hard to say at the moment. In truth I've only recently started
                looking
                > at the Dehn translation of the ritual.
                >
                > I am however considering it. I'm in the position where I can take
                the
                > full 6 months off for the end of the operation, and doing the first
                > year would not be a stretch... I would have to abandon my other
                > studies though which would be hard.
                >
                > Has anyone done the full 18 months?
                >
                >
                > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "hwhydog" <shaendorling@> wrote:
                > >
                > > So are you doing the 18 month version or Mathers?
                > >
                > > SRD
                > >
                > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
                > > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Thank you Marcus and Athena for the insight. You pretty much
                Summed
                > > up
                > > > what I was feeling.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "templumkat" <marcus@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Hello
                > > > >
                > > > > By Our Work we are Changed.
                > > > >
                > > > > I would second Athena's comment with regard to the question
                > > > > on "supplementing" the prayers by G.D. rituals and also point
                out
                > > > > that the fervent prayer required by the Operation does not
                allow
                > > time
                > > > > nor psychic space nor neccesity for other modalities.
                > > > >
                > > > > The Operation is a self-extracting system that unpacks itself
                to
                > > the
                > > > > environment of the Operator; should supplements be required,
                they
                > > > > will be informed to the Operator as the Operation progresses.
                > > > >
                > > > > Following the instructions as given, with, as they say on the
                > > radio
                > > > > show, "Just a Minute", no "deviation, repetition or
                hesitation"
                > > is
                > > > > essential.
                > > > >
                > > > > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
                > > > >
                > > > > Marcus Katz
                > > > > http://www.farawaycentre.com
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
                > > > > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Hey
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I'm new to group, just I would introduce myself.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I've been practicing magic for the last five years, Mainly
                GD
                > > and
                > > > > Crowley.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I read Mather's translation of the Abremelin ritual a few
                years
                > > > > back,
                > > > > > just got my hands on the Dehn translation. I'm really
                > > interested in
                > > > > > performing the ritual.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > What I really wanted to know is, can you use the GD
                ritual's as
                > > > > > supplement's to the prayer's and if so how?
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • thewingsofcorvus
                Thanks for the input hwhydog. It s hard to say whether mixing the systems would work or not. As I have not completed the Ritual, I turn to those that have
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 27, 2009
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                  Thanks for the input hwhydog.

                  It's hard to say whether mixing the systems would "work" or not. As I
                  have not completed the Ritual, I turn to those that have had
                  experience with the ritual for guidance. So far, the response has been
                  "don't mix!" I take their warning on board.

                  As far as there experiences and the way they performed there Ritual, I
                  believe it is subjective and personal, and without knowing them it
                  would be hard to pass any judgment about their experiences and
                  results....

                  However, it is interesting to see in Dehn's translation, it states
                  that during the first year, you can study the Kabbalah, the mixed
                  Kabballah, and other "liberal arts". I guess that sort of includes the
                  GD stuff, being Blended Kabbalah? As far as practicing the rituals go,
                  the jury is still out on this one.

                  As far as My Ritual goes I've made up my mind to start the full 18
                  month ritual starting April 12. I've got some work to do in the
                  interim, and many questions.








                  --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "hwhydog" <shaendorling@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'm sort of tagging along from your first comments about adding in
                  > other aspects of "magick" and then "Athena's" comment against mixing
                  > in other systems. Well can you just imagine having completed the
                  > Mathers 6 month version only to find out that new material such as
                  > the Dehn translation indicates that the whole Abramelin document by
                  > Mathers was crap?
                  >
                  > Talk about adding in, it would indicate that not only is it worse
                  > than "mixing" with other systems, but the whole rite was a waste of
                  > time and needs to be repeated, especially following "Athena's"
                  > experience of the 18 month initiation. If "Athena" did not do the 18
                  > month initiation, well … that experience indicates that completely
                  > altered systems which have omitted 60% of the work may actually work.
                  > Makes think that if the Mathers method has left the initiated with
                  > success – that mixed systems can work, or the subjective experience
                  > was an internal lie.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
                  > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hard to say at the moment. In truth I've only recently started
                  > looking
                  > > at the Dehn translation of the ritual.
                  > >
                  > > I am however considering it. I'm in the position where I can take
                  > the
                  > > full 6 months off for the end of the operation, and doing the first
                  > > year would not be a stretch... I would have to abandon my other
                  > > studies though which would be hard.
                  > >
                  > > Has anyone done the full 18 months?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "hwhydog" <shaendorling@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > So are you doing the 18 month version or Mathers?
                  > > >
                  > > > SRD
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
                  > > > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thank you Marcus and Athena for the insight. You pretty much
                  > Summed
                  > > > up
                  > > > > what I was feeling.
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "templumkat" <marcus@> wrote:
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Hello
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > By Our Work we are Changed.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I would second Athena's comment with regard to the question
                  > > > > > on "supplementing" the prayers by G.D. rituals and also point
                  > out
                  > > > > > that the fervent prayer required by the Operation does not
                  > allow
                  > > > time
                  > > > > > nor psychic space nor neccesity for other modalities.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The Operation is a self-extracting system that unpacks itself
                  > to
                  > > > the
                  > > > > > environment of the Operator; should supplements be required,
                  > they
                  > > > > > will be informed to the Operator as the Operation progresses.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Following the instructions as given, with, as they say on the
                  > > > radio
                  > > > > > show, "Just a Minute", no "deviation, repetition or
                  > hesitation"
                  > > > is
                  > > > > > essential.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Marcus Katz
                  > > > > > http://www.farawaycentre.com
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
                  > > > > > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > Hey
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > I'm new to group, just I would introduce myself.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > I've been practicing magic for the last five years, Mainly
                  > GD
                  > > > and
                  > > > > > Crowley.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > I read Mather's translation of the Abremelin ritual a few
                  > years
                  > > > > > back,
                  > > > > > > just got my hands on the Dehn translation. I'm really
                  > > > interested in
                  > > > > > > performing the ritual.
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > > > What I really wanted to know is, can you use the GD
                  > ritual's as
                  > > > > > > supplement's to the prayer's and if so how?
                  > > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Athena
                  I did the 6 month version. The way I see it is that they were both from the same original source, but one was a better translation (German). Sort of like the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 28, 2009
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                    I did the 6 month version.  The way I see it is that they were both from the same original source, but one was a better translation (German).  Sort of like the other Grimoires, Goetia for example.  You end up with many different versions handed down.  Anyways, I think the 6 month version is the faster and thus more difficult version, and perhaps a bit rushed.  Where the 18 month one would be at a much more steady pace.  Like running up a hill, or slowely going up switchbacks instead.  Also as someone pointed out in a previous post, perhaps you need more time afterwards to assimulate it if you do the 6 month one.  I'd say go for the 18 month version if you can possibly get that kind of time off.

                    Athena
                    --
                    www.enochian.org

                    On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 4:43 AM, hwhydog <shaendorling@...> wrote:

                    I'm sort of tagging along from your first comments about adding in
                    other aspects of "magick" and then "Athena's" comment against mixing
                    in other systems. Well can you just imagine having completed the
                    Mathers 6 month version only to find out that new material such as
                    the Dehn translation indicates that the whole Abramelin document by
                    Mathers was crap?

                    Talk about adding in, it would indicate that not only is it worse
                    than "mixing" with other systems, but the whole rite was a waste of
                    time and needs to be repeated, especially following "Athena's"
                    experience of the 18 month initiation. If "Athena" did not do the 18
                    month initiation, well … that experience indicates that completely
                    altered systems which have omitted 60% of the work may actually work.
                    Makes think that if the Mathers method has left the initiated with
                    success – that mixed systems can work, or the subjective experience
                    was an internal lie.



                    --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
                    <thewingsofcorvus@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hard to say at the moment. In truth I've only recently started
                    looking
                    > at the Dehn translation of the ritual.
                    >
                    > I am however considering it. I'm in the position where I can take
                    the
                    > full 6 months off for the end of the operation, and doing the first
                    > year would not be a stretch... I would have to abandon my other
                    > studies though which would be hard.
                    >
                    > Has anyone done the full 18 months?
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "hwhydog" <shaendorling@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > So are you doing the 18 month version or Mathers?
                    > >
                    > > SRD
                    > >
                    > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
                    > > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Thank you Marcus and Athena for the insight. You pretty much
                    Summed
                    > > up
                    > > > what I was feeling.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "templumkat" <marcus@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hello
                    > > > >
                    > > > > By Our Work we are Changed.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I would second Athena's comment with regard to the question
                    > > > > on "supplementing" the prayers by G.D. rituals and also point
                    out
                    > > > > that the fervent prayer required by the Operation does not
                    allow
                    > > time
                    > > > > nor psychic space nor neccesity for other modalities.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The Operation is a self-extracting system that unpacks itself
                    to
                    > > the
                    > > > > environment of the Operator; should supplements be required,
                    they
                    > > > > will be informed to the Operator as the Operation progresses.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Following the instructions as given, with, as they say on the
                    > > radio
                    > > > > show, "Just a Minute", no "deviation, repetition or
                    hesitation"
                    > > is
                    > > > > essential.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Marcus Katz
                    > > > > http://www.farawaycentre.com
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "thewingsofcorvus"
                    > > > > <thewingsofcorvus@> wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Hey
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I'm new to group, just I would introduce myself.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I've been practicing magic for the last five years, Mainly
                    GD
                    > > and
                    > > > > Crowley.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > I read Mather's translation of the Abremelin ritual a few
                    years
                    > > > > back,
                    > > > > > just got my hands on the Dehn translation. I'm really
                    > > interested in
                    > > > > > performing the ritual.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > What I really wanted to know is, can you use the GD
                    ritual's as
                    > > > > > supplement's to the prayer's and if so how?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >




                    --
                    Odo cicle qaa
                    --
                    www.enochian.org
                  • Khem Caigan
                    ... ... The 6-month ritual begins in the Spring quarter, with Pesach/Passover and the Equinox. The 18-month ritual begins in the Autumn quarter, with
                    Message 9 of 11 , Feb 4, 2009
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                      The Wings of Corvus doth schreibble :
                      >
                      <SNIPS>
                      > As far as My Ritual goes I've made up my mind to start the full 18
                      > month ritual starting April 12. I've got some work to do in the
                      > interim, and many questions.

                      The 6-month ritual begins in the Spring quarter, with
                      Pesach/Passover and the Equinox.

                      The 18-month ritual begins in the Autumn quarter, with
                      the Equinox and Sukkot/Tabernacles, and ends in the Spring
                      Quarter, with Pesach/Passover and the Equinox.

                      The 18-month ritual extends over a period of 3 years, with
                      a period of 3 months in the first year, 12 months in the
                      second, and 3 months in the third ( 3+12+3=18 ).

                      For information on how to build a sukkah, see :

                      How To Build Your Sukkah
                      http://tinyurl.com/be3c9j

                      Sukkot, a harvest festival, building a sukkah
                      (YouTube)
                      http://tinyurl.com/dbphu4

                      Sukkot
                      From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                      http://tinyurl.com/ywas2o

                      For more information on the rite of Abraham Elim as it
                      relates to Judaism, see the *Torah*, specifically *Exodus*,
                      and particularly chapters 25-30 :

                      Exodus 25-30: The Tabernacle
                      http://tinyurl.com/dffnw2

                      Cors in Manu Domine,


                      ~ Khem Caigan
                      <Khem@...>

                      Every body placed in the luminous air spreads out
                      in circles and fills the surrounding space with
                      infinite likenesses of itself and appears all in
                      all. ~ Leonardo da Vinci
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