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Clarification (Concerning the LHP)

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  • His Excellency
    Greetings & Blessings, I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that many will understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a LHP
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 12, 2008
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      Greetings & Blessings,

      I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that many will
      understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a LHP
      perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not possible.
      You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP perspective. I
      attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very subject.

      The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with your true
      self. You might do this by listening to music or watching movies that
      you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects with your
      childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about finding and
      reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the ritual could
      consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.

      Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a strong
      connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor of the books
      that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely connected
      to the land around my house, in particular the area in which I was
      performing my daily orations. This connection has continued and my
      oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say if this is
      everyone's experience or simply my own.

      Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects continue to take
      place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You could quit
      part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the danger lies
      for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal with the
      psychological effects which the ritual brings about.

      Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing the abyss"
      as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic experience.
      It is not related to the process of becoming a magus, although both
      create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately results in a
      new mental state.

      There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are just a few.
      This is my first post since performing the ritual last year. I began
      the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and then went
      back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the rite
      altogether.

      Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point entirely.
      You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of its own
      accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal forces. I
      have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes provide a
      balanced perspective of deity.

      I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a refection
      of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP, however, is
      unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity only. By
      doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This is as
      unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and feminine
      principles of deity.)

      With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on the negative
      draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the light and
      love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the HGA cannot
      be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the existence
      of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity. Also, if you
      begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.

      In light and love,

      A^zael

      p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej. You may
      still find a selection of books I have written (including the Demonic
      Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.(Http://www.deitus.org)
    • David Stolowitz
      Chad, glad to see you went forward with things. Perhaps you should define what you mean by Left Hand Path? Its a word that gets tossed around carelessly quite
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 12, 2008
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        Chad, glad to see you went forward with things. Perhaps you should
        define what you mean by Left Hand Path? Its a word that gets tossed
        around carelessly quite a bit, and people ascribe a lot of meanings to
        it that aren't always authentic. Its about more than just indulging
        your desires, although there's a healthy amount of that. It requires a
        deep understanding and intimate work with the self and desires on a
        very personal level, in order to facilitate both transcendence and
        immanence through the means at hand. It requires delicate and serious
        technique - "tantra". So if you outgrew the more puerile
        understandings and practices of "LHP", then more power to you. I've
        been able myself to commune and communicate with my Angel through
        sacralizing sexuality and intoxication as well as through pure prayer
        and dream-work, so be careful you don't dismiss alternative ways just
        because they haven't worked well for you.

        I sense a touch of zealotry in your tone. While I'm glad you've found
        something that did wonders for you, you have to watch out that you
        don't spuriously condemn others and their ways that are different from
        your own. Don't confuse the raft with the journey, or the moon with
        the finger pointing at it. Its always interesting to read people's
        accounts of Abramelin and afterward, because I see both a lot of
        commonalities and a lot of differences in both how people end up going
        about it and what they take home from it. Some of us come to very
        different conclusions from others, and this is only natural in a rite
        whose heart is discovering the embodiment of your purpose in life. So
        I hope we don't get into petty squabbles here and elsewhere about the
        "correct" way to go about Abramelin's system of self-discovery.

        I agree with you that a big part of the rite is about reconnecting
        with your childhood and childlike nature. Christ said that we have to
        become like children again to enter the Kingdom of God. I've
        experienced this myself quite a bit. In my dreams and in more lucid
        moments of perception and reflection, all this extraneous religious
        and scholarly crap and accretion just falls away, and things are just
        as simple and authentic as I remembered them to be when I was young.
        "Words are very unnecessary - they can only do harm". At that point,
        I'm not even thinking in theological terms of God and Christ and
        religion and all this stuff - its just so fucking simple it makes me
        want to scream. YOU ARE IT - EHEYEH ASHER EHEYEH.
      • A^zael
        Greetings, I m not a zealot but can appreciate your comment about not becoming fanatical or attempting to define one correct way of performing the Abramelin
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 12, 2008
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          Greetings,

          I'm not a zealot but can appreciate your comment about not becoming
          fanatical or attempting to define one "correct" way of performing the
          Abramelin operation. The LHP means different things to different
          people but is essentially one approach to the question of the
          universe. The LHP is as much a part of my spiritual background as any
          other path.

          I have worked with many of the "higher" Satanic concepts such as
          Xeper and Thelema. I have also walked the Adversarial Path, invoking
          the darker Jungian Archetypes and Egyptian Neters. Eventually, I
          created my own system based on personal deification through the
          application of the individual will to the expansion of
          consciousness.

          Deitic philosophy acknowledges the connectiveness of all things in
          the understanding that 'I' am more than simply my body, mind, or
          spirit. The ego defines the self as something seperate from the
          universe, but the thoughts which manifest within my mind are larger
          than one finite being. Consciousness is an ocean of collective
          thought and each mind is a tributary. Herein lies the Collective
          Unconscious and source for all inspiration.

          If I am a manifestation of the dynamic consciousness within the
          universe, then my thoughts are the thoughts of a god, my will is the
          will of a god, and my goals are the goals of a god. In this age, man
          has become a god upon the earth. This is the central concept embodied
          within the defining Word of the Aeon of Lucifer, Deitus.

          It is my view that reality is subjective. The objective world is only
          perceivable through the subjective perseptive world. Things exist to
          us only as they have meaning to us or influence us personally.

          We can talk about differing layers or forms of reality. I can say
          that I am a physical being occupying space and time. I can say that I
          am composed of millions of individual cells or billions of atoms. I
          can say that I am my ego or my psyche. Which of these is true? This
          depends on whose reality one is refering to. Are we talking physical
          reality, biological reality, chemical reality, or spiritual reality?

          Comparably, each belief establishes a subjective universe composed of
          archetypal forms in which physical objects have meaningful existence.
          Regardless of the system of belief that one holds, reality is
          subjective to belief. This is why I say that if one focuses on the
          negative and nihilistic forms of deity, one will only perceive
          negative and nihilistic forms of deity.

          In the Demmonic Bible I once wrote that if devils are fallen gods
          then all gods are devils. I said that Yahweh and Allah may simply be
          more politically-correct devils than Baal and Ashtorah. This
          statement is perceptional based on the belief in darkness prevailing
          light. I would now say that deity is reflected equally in darkness
          and light, dependent on one's subjective reality or what one chooses
          to see.

          It should be clear to you then I am not saying that the LHP is
          invalid or even that something comparable to the HGA is not
          accessable to those following the LHP. I actually think that anyone
          claiming to have performed the Work who still holds to the perception
          that he is on the either the LHP or RHP has deceived himself. As the
          link between man and deity, the HGA is beyond the purile definitions
          of right and wrong (or good and evil), which the Left- and Right-
          Hand Paths both hold.

          Blessings,

          A^zael



          --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "David Stolowitz" <optimystic@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Chad, glad to see you went forward with things. Perhaps you should
          > define what you mean by Left Hand Path? Its a word that gets tossed
          > around carelessly quite a bit, and people ascribe a lot of meanings
          to
          > it that aren't always authentic. Its about more than just indulging
          > your desires, although there's a healthy amount of that. It
          requires a
          > deep understanding and intimate work with the self and desires on a
          > very personal level, in order to facilitate both transcendence and
          > immanence through the means at hand. It requires delicate and
          serious
          > technique - "tantra". So if you outgrew the more puerile
          > understandings and practices of "LHP", then more power to you. I've
          > been able myself to commune and communicate with my Angel through
          > sacralizing sexuality and intoxication as well as through pure
          prayer
          > and dream-work, so be careful you don't dismiss alternative ways
          just
          > because they haven't worked well for you.
          >
          > I sense a touch of zealotry in your tone. While I'm glad you've
          found
          > something that did wonders for you, you have to watch out that you
          > don't spuriously condemn others and their ways that are different
          from
          > your own. Don't confuse the raft with the journey, or the moon with
          > the finger pointing at it. Its always interesting to read people's
          > accounts of Abramelin and afterward, because I see both a lot of
          > commonalities and a lot of differences in both how people end up
          going
          > about it and what they take home from it. Some of us come to very
          > different conclusions from others, and this is only natural in a
          rite
          > whose heart is discovering the embodiment of your purpose in life.
          So
          > I hope we don't get into petty squabbles here and elsewhere about
          the
          > "correct" way to go about Abramelin's system of self-discovery.
          >
          > I agree with you that a big part of the rite is about reconnecting
          > with your childhood and childlike nature. Christ said that we have
          to
          > become like children again to enter the Kingdom of God. I've
          > experienced this myself quite a bit. In my dreams and in more lucid
          > moments of perception and reflection, all this extraneous religious
          > and scholarly crap and accretion just falls away, and things are
          just
          > as simple and authentic as I remembered them to be when I was young.
          > "Words are very unnecessary - they can only do harm". At that point,
          > I'm not even thinking in theological terms of God and Christ and
          > religion and all this stuff - its just so fucking simple it makes me
          > want to scream. YOU ARE IT - EHEYEH ASHER EHEYEH.
          >
        • Athena
          I would completely disagree and say one has not completed the rite unless they see it through to the end and perform the final week of workings. The Abramelin
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 12, 2008
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            I would completely disagree and say one has not completed the rite unless they see it through to the end and perform the final week of workings.  The Abramelin does not keep on going after one stops doing it (accept perhaps to haunt you, as I have seen in someone).  Now with you in particular I'm not saying you haven't had a very profound and spiritual experience that has changed your life, and met your HGA, just that it wasn't via the complete Abramelin rite proper.

            I do not want to see people take the approach or even begin to think they can stop whenever and it will still work.  It is a very specific path and process, that takes 6-18 months, and must be done right up until the end to get the full Abramelin affect from it.

            As far as LHP perspective... I was taught during my Abramelin to go into it with no perspective :).  Some may be able to complete it from that perspective who knowns, everyone is different.  Also depends on your definition of LHP of course. 

            Athena
            --
            www.enochian.org

            On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:00 AM, His Excellency <chadianmiller@...> wrote:

            Greetings & Blessings,

            I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that many will
            understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a LHP
            perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not possible.
            You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP perspective. I
            attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very subject.

            The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with your true
            self. You might do this by listening to music or watching movies that
            you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects with your
            childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about finding and
            reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the ritual could
            consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.

            Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a strong
            connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor of the books
            that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely connected
            to the land around my house, in particular the area in which I was
            performing my daily orations. This connection has continued and my
            oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say if this is
            everyone's experience or simply my own.

            Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects continue to take
            place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You could quit
            part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the danger lies
            for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal with the
            psychological effects which the ritual brings about.

            Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing the abyss"
            as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic experience.
            It is not related to the process of becoming a magus, although both
            create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately results in a
            new mental state.

            There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are just a few.
            This is my first post since performing the ritual last year. I began
            the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and then went
            back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the rite
            altogether.

            Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point entirely.
            You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of its own
            accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal forces. I
            have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes provide a
            balanced perspective of deity.

            I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a refection
            of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP, however, is
            unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity only. By
            doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This is as
            unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and feminine
            principles of deity.)

            With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on the negative
            draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the light and
            love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the HGA cannot
            be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the existence
            of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity. Also, if you
            begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.

            In light and love,

            A^zael

            p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej. You may
            still find a selection of books I have written (including the Demonic
            Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.(Http://www.deitus.org)




            --
            Odo cicle qaa
            --
            www.enochian.org
          • A^zael
            Actually, Athena, it does not surprise me that you would disagree. I have spoken briefly with you a few times in the past. By your logic, however, it can
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 12, 2008
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              Actually, Athena, it does not surprise me that you would disagree. I
              have spoken briefly with you a few times in the past. By your logic,
              however, it can easily be argued that those performing the 6 month
              ritual did not properly perform the rite since the true ritual takes
              18 months to complete. It can also be argued that the ritual must be
              performed the way it is written in the text.

              Does this mean that your own experience was invalid? Of course not. I
              can only speak of my own experience. There is no reason for me to
              question yours, whether I agree or not that you have completed the
              ritual. I would be curious to know what others might think, in
              particular those who have carried out the working to its conclusion.

              The moment that you adapt this Working, you have deviated from the
              text. Who can say then if what you experience is the same as what you
              would have experienced had you not changed the ritual to begin with?

              Light and Love,

              A^zael


              -- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Athena <oipteaapdoce@...> wrote:
              >
              > I would completely disagree and say one has not completed the rite
              unless
              > they see it through to the end and perform the final week of
              workings. The
              > Abramelin does not keep on going after one stops doing it (accept
              perhaps to
              > haunt you, as I have seen in someone). Now with you in particular
              I'm not
              > saying you haven't had a very profound and spiritual experience
              that has
              > changed your life, and met your HGA, just that it wasn't via the
              complete
              > Abramelin rite proper.
              >
              > I do not want to see people take the approach or even begin to
              think they
              > can stop whenever and it will still work. It is a very specific
              path and
              > process, that takes 6-18 months, and must be done right up until
              the end to
              > get the full Abramelin affect from it.
              >
              > As far as LHP perspective... I was taught during my Abramelin to go
              into it
              > with no perspective :). Some may be able to complete it from that
              > perspective who knowns, everyone is different. Also depends on your
              > definition of LHP of course.
              >
              > Athena
              > --
              > www.enochian.org
              >
              > On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:00 AM, His Excellency
              <chadianmiller@...>wrote:
              >
              > > Greetings & Blessings,
              > >
              > > I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that many
              will
              > > understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a LHP
              > > perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not
              possible.
              > > You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP perspective. I
              > > attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very
              subject.
              > >
              > > The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with your true
              > > self. You might do this by listening to music or watching movies
              that
              > > you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects with
              your
              > > childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about finding and
              > > reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the ritual
              could
              > > consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.
              > >
              > > Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a
              strong
              > > connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor of the
              books
              > > that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely
              connected
              > > to the land around my house, in particular the area in which I was
              > > performing my daily orations. This connection has continued and my
              > > oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say if
              this is
              > > everyone's experience or simply my own.
              > >
              > > Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects continue to
              take
              > > place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You could
              quit
              > > part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the
              danger lies
              > > for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal with the
              > > psychological effects which the ritual brings about.
              > >
              > > Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing the
              abyss"
              > > as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic
              experience.
              > > It is not related to the process of becoming a magus, although
              both
              > > create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately results
              in a
              > > new mental state.
              > >
              > > There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are just a
              few.
              > > This is my first post since performing the ritual last year. I
              began
              > > the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and
              then went
              > > back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the rite
              > > altogether.
              > >
              > > Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point
              entirely.
              > > You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of its own
              > > accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal
              forces. I
              > > have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes
              provide a
              > > balanced perspective of deity.
              > >
              > > I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a
              refection
              > > of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP,
              however, is
              > > unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity only.
              By
              > > doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This is as
              > > unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and
              feminine
              > > principles of deity.)
              > >
              > > With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on the
              negative
              > > draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the light
              and
              > > love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the HGA
              cannot
              > > be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the
              existence
              > > of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity. Also, if
              you
              > > begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.
              > >
              > > In light and love,
              > >
              > > A^zael
              > >
              > > p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej. You may
              > > still find a selection of books I have written (including the
              Demonic
              > > Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.
              (Http://www.deitus.org)
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Odo cicle qaa
              > --
              > www.enochian.org
              >
            • A^zael
              I apologize for my last post. I did not re-read it before sending and it sounds more petulant than I intended. As I have said previously, reality is
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 12, 2008
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                I apologize for my last post. I did not re-read it before sending and
                it sounds more petulant than I intended. As I have said previously,
                reality is subjective. What you believe determines your reality. You
                have every right to disagree with what I wrote. That is YOUR reality.
                That is not mine.

                Light and Love,

                A^zael.


                --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "A^zael" <chadianmiller@...> wrote:
                >
                > Actually, Athena, it does not surprise me that you would disagree.
                I
                > have spoken briefly with you a few times in the past. By your
                logic,
                > however, it can easily be argued that those performing the 6 month
                > ritual did not properly perform the rite since the true ritual
                takes
                > 18 months to complete. It can also be argued that the ritual must
                be
                > performed the way it is written in the text.
                >
                > Does this mean that your own experience was invalid? Of course not.
                I
                > can only speak of my own experience. There is no reason for me to
                > question yours, whether I agree or not that you have completed the
                > ritual. I would be curious to know what others might think, in
                > particular those who have carried out the working to its conclusion.
                >
                > The moment that you adapt this Working, you have deviated from the
                > text. Who can say then if what you experience is the same as what
                you
                > would have experienced had you not changed the ritual to begin
                with?
                >
                > Light and Love,
                >
                > A^zael
                >
                >
                > -- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Athena <oipteaapdoce@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I would completely disagree and say one has not completed the
                rite
                > unless
                > > they see it through to the end and perform the final week of
                > workings. The
                > > Abramelin does not keep on going after one stops doing it (accept
                > perhaps to
                > > haunt you, as I have seen in someone). Now with you in
                particular
                > I'm not
                > > saying you haven't had a very profound and spiritual experience
                > that has
                > > changed your life, and met your HGA, just that it wasn't via the
                > complete
                > > Abramelin rite proper.
                > >
                > > I do not want to see people take the approach or even begin to
                > think they
                > > can stop whenever and it will still work. It is a very specific
                > path and
                > > process, that takes 6-18 months, and must be done right up until
                > the end to
                > > get the full Abramelin affect from it.
                > >
                > > As far as LHP perspective... I was taught during my Abramelin to
                go
                > into it
                > > with no perspective :). Some may be able to complete it from that
                > > perspective who knowns, everyone is different. Also depends on
                your
                > > definition of LHP of course.
                > >
                > > Athena
                > > --
                > > www.enochian.org
                > >
                > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:00 AM, His Excellency
                > <chadianmiller@>wrote:
                > >
                > > > Greetings & Blessings,
                > > >
                > > > I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that
                many
                > will
                > > > understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a LHP
                > > > perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not
                > possible.
                > > > You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP
                perspective. I
                > > > attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very
                > subject.
                > > >
                > > > The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with your
                true
                > > > self. You might do this by listening to music or watching
                movies
                > that
                > > > you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects with
                > your
                > > > childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about finding
                and
                > > > reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the ritual
                > could
                > > > consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.
                > > >
                > > > Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a
                > strong
                > > > connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor of
                the
                > books
                > > > that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely
                > connected
                > > > to the land around my house, in particular the area in which I
                was
                > > > performing my daily orations. This connection has continued and
                my
                > > > oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say if
                > this is
                > > > everyone's experience or simply my own.
                > > >
                > > > Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects continue
                to
                > take
                > > > place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You could
                > quit
                > > > part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the
                > danger lies
                > > > for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal with
                the
                > > > psychological effects which the ritual brings about.
                > > >
                > > > Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing
                the
                > abyss"
                > > > as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic
                > experience.
                > > > It is not related to the process of becoming a magus, although
                > both
                > > > create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately
                results
                > in a
                > > > new mental state.
                > > >
                > > > There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are just
                a
                > few.
                > > > This is my first post since performing the ritual last year. I
                > began
                > > > the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and
                > then went
                > > > back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the
                rite
                > > > altogether.
                > > >
                > > > Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point
                > entirely.
                > > > You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of its
                own
                > > > accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal
                > forces. I
                > > > have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes
                > provide a
                > > > balanced perspective of deity.
                > > >
                > > > I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a
                > refection
                > > > of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP,
                > however, is
                > > > unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity
                only.
                > By
                > > > doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This is as
                > > > unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and
                > feminine
                > > > principles of deity.)
                > > >
                > > > With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on the
                > negative
                > > > draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the light
                > and
                > > > love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the
                HGA
                > cannot
                > > > be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the
                > existence
                > > > of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity. Also,
                if
                > you
                > > > begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.
                > > >
                > > > In light and love,
                > > >
                > > > A^zael
                > > >
                > > > p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej. You
                may
                > > > still find a selection of books I have written (including the
                > Demonic
                > > > Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.
                > (Http://www.deitus.org)
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --
                > > Odo cicle qaa
                > > --
                > > www.enochian.org
                > >
                >
              • MARCUS KATZ
                Hello By our Work we are Changed. You asked for comments from those who have completed the Abramelin Working. I completed the Abramelin working in September
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 13, 2008
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                  Hello

                  By our Work we are Changed.

                  You asked for comments from those who have completed the Abramelin Working.
                  I completed the Abramelin working in September 2004, following the Mathers
                  translation from the French, although I was also aware of the pre-published
                  Dehn translation from the German. I carried out and completed the ritual
                  over 172 days following the instructions as written, in the context of
                  thirty years experience of esoteric work and academic study. I perhaps am
                  therefore someone who might validly respond to your request.

                  I entirely disagree with most of your posting as I understand it.

                  The conflation of terminology is perhaps indicative of a wider confusion. In
                  a separate posting, you refer to "higher" satanic concepts such as Xeper and
                  Thelema. You may know that one of the first promulgators of the philosophy
                  of Thelema was Augustine of Hippo. In what way was he "satanic"? Authors
                  such as Webb, Lavey and the O.N.A. have translated "xeper" and "neter" much
                  in their understanding of ancient egyptian cosmology - again, there is no
                  comparable term in the specific tantric sects that might be viewed as "on
                  the left hand".

                  The "ritual of the HGA" is absolutely not "very much about connecting with
                  your true self (sic)". It - if anything - is quite the opposite, in my
                  experience.

                  You cannot "quit" half-way through and still "meet your HGA". Your very
                  terminology of "meet" the HGA betrays that you have not had the experience.
                  There is no "meeting"; it is "knowledge and conversation".

                  The ritual is not a 'shamanic' experience.

                  You say you "abandoned" the ritual but did not fail because "you cannot
                  fail".

                  I abandoned training for this years olympic games but I did not fail to
                  compete. I quit half-way through the race but I won the gold medal.
                  Possible, but unlikely.

                  As Athena has posted, I do not deny your experience. But I think I waited
                  for the bus to come and went to Paris, as it said in the timetable, and you
                  didn't wait, hopped on a flatbed trailer that looked like a bus to you and
                  ended up somewhere other than Paris.

                  The Worker is hidden in the Workshop

                  Frater F.P.
                  http://www.farawaycentre.com
                  Learn to live a Magickal Life!





                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: His Excellency
                  To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 3:00 PM
                  Subject: [abramelin] Clarification (Concerning the LHP)


                  Greetings & Blessings,

                  I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that many will
                  understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a LHP
                  perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not possible.
                  You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP perspective. I
                  attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very subject.

                  The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with your true
                  self. You might do this by listening to music or watching movies that
                  you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects with your
                  childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about finding and
                  reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the ritual could
                  consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.

                  Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a strong
                  connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor of the books
                  that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely connected
                  to the land around my house, in particular the area in which I was
                  performing my daily orations. This connection has continued and my
                  oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say if this is
                  everyone's experience or simply my own.

                  Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects continue to take
                  place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You could quit
                  part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the danger lies
                  for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal with the
                  psychological effects which the ritual brings about.

                  Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing the abyss"
                  as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic experience.
                  It is not related to the process of becoming a magus, although both
                  create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately results in a
                  new mental state.

                  There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are just a few.
                  This is my first post since performing the ritual last year. I began
                  the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and then went
                  back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the rite
                  altogether.

                  Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point entirely.
                  You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of its own
                  accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal forces. I
                  have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes provide a
                  balanced perspective of deity.

                  I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a refection
                  of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP, however, is
                  unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity only. By
                  doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This is as
                  unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and feminine
                  principles of deity.)

                  With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on the negative
                  draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the light and
                  love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the HGA cannot
                  be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the existence
                  of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity. Also, if you
                  begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.

                  In light and love,

                  A^zael

                  p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej. You may
                  still find a selection of books I have written (including the Demonic
                  Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.(Http://www.deitus.org)







                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                  Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date: 9/12/2008
                  6:56 AM
                • Athena
                  Just to clarify, I m not at all saying, or even pondering whether your experience was valid or not, just saying it wasn t the Abramelin working. The reason I m
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 13, 2008
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                    Just to clarify, I'm not at all saying, or even pondering whether your experience was valid or not, just saying it wasn't the Abramelin working.  The reason I'm so adamant about it not working before the completion date is that one hasn't completed the process by this point. I find that the path and your HGA moves you along during the time period, and so much would be missed if one were to end early.  Also, during my working, and I have heard this from others, there are false HGAs.  I would guess it's the ego/mind/whatever trying to lure you into thinking you have completed the working.  Or perhaps it is even your HGA, but your mind is the thing that says you are one.  There is no comparison to the HGA experiences during the working with that of what happens during that final day before the final week.  Since magicians, well people in general do like to slack, I wouldn't want to see some new trend of Abramelin is done when you feel it's done.  The ego/mind whatever would definitely use this against the aspirant in my opinion.  During this extremely difficult working, I beleive one cannot be a judge of such things.

                    As far as 6 months vs 18 months and French vs German, I beleive that both are valid.  I don't think that just because there is a new one where the original author bothered to fill out the word squares that it makes the oldon invalid.  We have different versions of the Goetia for example, or the Grand Grimoire, quite often with extreme differences.  One isn't necessarly invalid because the other contains some more information.  Perhaps the French and the German were both copied from the same original text?  Anyways, in my opinion the 6 month version is an excellerated and would be more difficult version of the working.  I would recommend the 18 month one to anyone who goes into it.  Also if one chooses the French just because it's shorter, I think that would be a mistake. 

                    So just to be clear, my reply is more about the operation and the time frame then you in particular, your working was just a good example ;>.

                    Athena
                    --
                    www.enochian.org

                    On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 8:33 PM, A^zael <chadianmiller@...> wrote:

                    Actually, Athena, it does not surprise me that you would disagree. I
                    have spoken briefly with you a few times in the past. By your logic,
                    however, it can easily be argued that those performing the 6 month
                    ritual did not properly perform the rite since the true ritual takes
                    18 months to complete. It can also be argued that the ritual must be
                    performed the way it is written in the text.

                    Does this mean that your own experience was invalid? Of course not. I
                    can only speak of my own experience. There is no reason for me to
                    question yours, whether I agree or not that you have completed the
                    ritual. I would be curious to know what others might think, in
                    particular those who have carried out the working to its conclusion.

                    The moment that you adapt this Working, you have deviated from the
                    text. Who can say then if what you experience is the same as what you
                    would have experienced had you not changed the ritual to begin with?

                    Light and Love,

                    A^zael



                    -- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Athena <oipteaapdoce@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I would completely disagree and say one has not completed the rite
                    unless
                    > they see it through to the end and perform the final week of
                    workings. The
                    > Abramelin does not keep on going after one stops doing it (accept
                    perhaps to
                    > haunt you, as I have seen in someone). Now with you in particular
                    I'm not
                    > saying you haven't had a very profound and spiritual experience
                    that has
                    > changed your life, and met your HGA, just that it wasn't via the
                    complete
                    > Abramelin rite proper.
                    >
                    > I do not want to see people take the approach or even begin to
                    think they
                    > can stop whenever and it will still work. It is a very specific
                    path and
                    > process, that takes 6-18 months, and must be done right up until
                    the end to
                    > get the full Abramelin affect from it.
                    >
                    > As far as LHP perspective... I was taught during my Abramelin to go
                    into it
                    > with no perspective :). Some may be able to complete it from that
                    > perspective who knowns, everyone is different. Also depends on your
                    > definition of LHP of course.
                    >
                    > Athena
                    > --
                    > www.enochian.org
                    >
                    > On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 7:00 AM, His Excellency
                    <chadianmiller@...>wrote:

                    >
                    > > Greetings & Blessings,
                    > >
                    > > I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that many
                    will
                    > > understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a LHP
                    > > perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not
                    possible.
                    > > You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP perspective. I
                    > > attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very
                    subject.
                    > >
                    > > The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with your true
                    > > self. You might do this by listening to music or watching movies
                    that
                    > > you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects with
                    your
                    > > childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about finding and
                    > > reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the ritual
                    could
                    > > consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.
                    > >
                    > > Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a
                    strong
                    > > connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor of the
                    books
                    > > that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely
                    connected
                    > > to the land around my house, in particular the area in which I was
                    > > performing my daily orations. This connection has continued and my
                    > > oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say if
                    this is
                    > > everyone's experience or simply my own.
                    > >
                    > > Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects continue to
                    take
                    > > place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You could
                    quit
                    > > part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the
                    danger lies
                    > > for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal with the
                    > > psychological effects which the ritual brings about.
                    > >
                    > > Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing the
                    abyss"
                    > > as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic
                    experience.
                    > > It is not related to the process of becoming a magus, although
                    both
                    > > create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately results
                    in a
                    > > new mental state.
                    > >
                    > > There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are just a
                    few.
                    > > This is my first post since performing the ritual last year. I
                    began
                    > > the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and
                    then went
                    > > back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the rite
                    > > altogether.
                    > >
                    > > Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point
                    entirely.
                    > > You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of its own
                    > > accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal
                    forces. I
                    > > have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes
                    provide a
                    > > balanced perspective of deity.
                    > >
                    > > I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a
                    refection
                    > > of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP,
                    however, is
                    > > unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity only.
                    By
                    > > doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This is as
                    > > unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and
                    feminine
                    > > principles of deity.)
                    > >
                    > > With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on the
                    negative
                    > > draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the light
                    and
                    > > love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the HGA
                    cannot
                    > > be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the
                    existence
                    > > of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity. Also, if
                    you
                    > > begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.
                    > >
                    > > In light and love,
                    > >
                    > > A^zael
                    > >
                    > > p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej. You may
                    > > still find a selection of books I have written (including the
                    Demonic
                    > > Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.
                    (Http://www.deitus.org)
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Odo cicle qaa
                    > --
                    > www.enochian.org
                    >




                    --
                    Odo cicle qaa
                    --
                    www.enochian.org
                  • A^zael
                    This will be my last post as it is not my intent to dialogue on whose experience is valid. The ego naturally confirms ones own and renounces others. I might as
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 13, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      This will be my last post as it is not my intent to dialogue on whose
                      experience is valid. The ego naturally confirms ones own and
                      renounces others. I might as well attempt to get baptists, catholics,
                      and pentacosts to decide who has the "holy spirit."

                      You compare the Abramelin Working to completing a marathon and equate
                      the HGA to a gold medal. Is the spirit of truth reserved to the
                      enlightened few? Are the angels of god rewards which are meeted out
                      to winners?

                      It is written that the HGA is given to each soul at the moment of
                      conception. It may be better then to compare the Abramelin Working to
                      the process one goes through in developing natural talents. Is a
                      singer less of a singer if she does not take vocal training? Is a
                      musician or an artist less an artist if he does not study music or
                      art history?

                      Magic involves the application of little understood laws of nature.
                      You can compare the Abramelin Working to scientific study of natural
                      laws. Without an understanding of physics, is one in danger of
                      floating away from the earth in defiance of gravity? Can we say that
                      without knowledge of genetics or biology one is unable to procreate?

                      I am sure there are a few in this group with a vested interest in
                      convincing others that they have completed the Working and have the
                      answers to help others do the same. The group is, of course, named
                      Abramelin and its stated purpose is such. As with any magickal order,
                      the few dictate to the many what is true. This truth is illusory.
                      Taken out of the context of the group, it is just an opinion.

                      There are a great many ego games. Those with little power in their
                      lives exalt themselves as authorities. I have nothing to prove. I can
                      only state truth as I understand it and then let others make up their
                      own minds on the matter. My statement that anyone can conduct the
                      Working without too much hoo-choo flies in the face of those who want
                      to be the teachers and guides of the spiritual journeys of others.

                      Light and Love,

                      A^zael


                      --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "MARCUS KATZ" <marcus@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello
                      >
                      > By our Work we are Changed.
                      >
                      > You asked for comments from those who have completed the Abramelin
                      Working.
                      > I completed the Abramelin working in September 2004, following the
                      Mathers
                      > translation from the French, although I was also aware of the pre-
                      published
                      > Dehn translation from the German. I carried out and completed the
                      ritual
                      > over 172 days following the instructions as written, in the context
                      of
                      > thirty years experience of esoteric work and academic study. I
                      perhaps am
                      > therefore someone who might validly respond to your request.
                      >
                      > I entirely disagree with most of your posting as I understand it.
                      >
                      > The conflation of terminology is perhaps indicative of a wider
                      confusion. In
                      > a separate posting, you refer to "higher" satanic concepts such as
                      Xeper and
                      > Thelema. You may know that one of the first promulgators of the
                      philosophy
                      > of Thelema was Augustine of Hippo. In what way was he "satanic"?
                      Authors
                      > such as Webb, Lavey and the O.N.A. have translated "xeper"
                      and "neter" much
                      > in their understanding of ancient egyptian cosmology - again, there
                      is no
                      > comparable term in the specific tantric sects that might be viewed
                      as "on
                      > the left hand".
                      >
                      > The "ritual of the HGA" is absolutely not "very much about
                      connecting with
                      > your true self (sic)". It - if anything - is quite the opposite, in
                      my
                      > experience.
                      >
                      > You cannot "quit" half-way through and still "meet your HGA". Your
                      very
                      > terminology of "meet" the HGA betrays that you have not had the
                      experience.
                      > There is no "meeting"; it is "knowledge and conversation".
                      >
                      > The ritual is not a 'shamanic' experience.
                      >
                      > You say you "abandoned" the ritual but did not fail because "you
                      cannot
                      > fail".
                      >
                      > I abandoned training for this years olympic games but I did not
                      fail to
                      > compete. I quit half-way through the race but I won the gold medal.
                      > Possible, but unlikely.
                      >
                      > As Athena has posted, I do not deny your experience. But I think I
                      waited
                      > for the bus to come and went to Paris, as it said in the timetable,
                      and you
                      > didn't wait, hopped on a flatbed trailer that looked like a bus to
                      you and
                      > ended up somewhere other than Paris.
                      >
                      > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
                      >
                      > Frater F.P.
                      > http://www.farawaycentre.com
                      > Learn to live a Magickal Life!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: His Excellency
                      > To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 3:00 PM
                      > Subject: [abramelin] Clarification (Concerning the LHP)
                      >
                      >
                      > Greetings & Blessings,
                      >
                      > I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that many
                      will
                      > understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a LHP
                      > perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not possible.
                      > You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP perspective. I
                      > attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very
                      subject.
                      >
                      > The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with your true
                      > self. You might do this by listening to music or watching movies
                      that
                      > you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects with your
                      > childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about finding and
                      > reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the ritual could
                      > consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.
                      >
                      > Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a strong
                      > connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor of the
                      books
                      > that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely
                      connected
                      > to the land around my house, in particular the area in which I was
                      > performing my daily orations. This connection has continued and my
                      > oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say if this
                      is
                      > everyone's experience or simply my own.
                      >
                      > Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects continue to
                      take
                      > place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You could quit
                      > part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the danger
                      lies
                      > for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal with the
                      > psychological effects which the ritual brings about.
                      >
                      > Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing the
                      abyss"
                      > as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic
                      experience.
                      > It is not related to the process of becoming a magus, although both
                      > create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately results
                      in a
                      > new mental state.
                      >
                      > There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are just a
                      few.
                      > This is my first post since performing the ritual last year. I began
                      > the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and then
                      went
                      > back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the rite
                      > altogether.
                      >
                      > Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point entirely.
                      > You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of its own
                      > accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal forces.
                      I
                      > have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes provide a
                      > balanced perspective of deity.
                      >
                      > I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a
                      refection
                      > of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP, however,
                      is
                      > unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity only. By
                      > doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This is as
                      > unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and
                      feminine
                      > principles of deity.)
                      >
                      > With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on the
                      negative
                      > draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the light and
                      > love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the HGA
                      cannot
                      > be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the
                      existence
                      > of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity. Also, if you
                      > begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.
                      >
                      > In light and love,
                      >
                      > A^zael
                      >
                      > p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej. You may
                      > still find a selection of books I have written (including the
                      Demonic
                      > Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.
                      (Http://www.deitus.org)
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > No virus found in this incoming message.
                      > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                      > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date:
                      9/12/2008
                      > 6:56 AM
                      >
                    • haussofcompassion
                      Greetings Azael: I am on the last weeks of performing this ritual. I hop online only once in a while and then to pursue something that was an object of my
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 16, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Greetings Azael:

                        I am on the last weeks of performing this ritual. I hop online only
                        once in a while and then to pursue something that was an object of my
                        meditations. Of course I stopped and read what's new on our web
                        site. You said you finished the rite even though you stopped part
                        way through.

                        Did you still achieve mastery over the Unredeemed Spirits? Were you
                        given the squares to rule over them? Did you ever make them swear
                        obedience? I'm just wondering how many of the promised results you
                        achieved.

                        I have only a short time left and I start the final week and the Day
                        of Consecration this week. Wish me luck.

                        --Frater Hauss

                        --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "A^zael" <chadianmiller@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > This will be my last post as it is not my intent to dialogue on
                        whose
                        > experience is valid. The ego naturally confirms ones own and
                        > renounces others. I might as well attempt to get baptists,
                        catholics,
                        > and pentacosts to decide who has the "holy spirit."
                        >
                        > You compare the Abramelin Working to completing a marathon and
                        equate
                        > the HGA to a gold medal. Is the spirit of truth reserved to the
                        > enlightened few? Are the angels of god rewards which are meeted out
                        > to winners?
                        >
                        > It is written that the HGA is given to each soul at the moment of
                        > conception. It may be better then to compare the Abramelin Working
                        to
                        > the process one goes through in developing natural talents. Is a
                        > singer less of a singer if she does not take vocal training? Is a
                        > musician or an artist less an artist if he does not study music or
                        > art history?
                        >
                        > Magic involves the application of little understood laws of nature.
                        > You can compare the Abramelin Working to scientific study of
                        natural
                        > laws. Without an understanding of physics, is one in danger of
                        > floating away from the earth in defiance of gravity? Can we say
                        that
                        > without knowledge of genetics or biology one is unable to procreate?
                        >
                        > I am sure there are a few in this group with a vested interest in
                        > convincing others that they have completed the Working and have the
                        > answers to help others do the same. The group is, of course, named
                        > Abramelin and its stated purpose is such. As with any magickal
                        order,
                        > the few dictate to the many what is true. This truth is illusory.
                        > Taken out of the context of the group, it is just an opinion.
                        >
                        > There are a great many ego games. Those with little power in their
                        > lives exalt themselves as authorities. I have nothing to prove. I
                        can
                        > only state truth as I understand it and then let others make up
                        their
                        > own minds on the matter. My statement that anyone can conduct the
                        > Working without too much hoo-choo flies in the face of those who
                        want
                        > to be the teachers and guides of the spiritual journeys of others.
                        >
                        > Light and Love,
                        >
                        > A^zael
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "MARCUS KATZ" <marcus@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello
                        > >
                        > > By our Work we are Changed.
                        > >
                        > > You asked for comments from those who have completed the
                        Abramelin
                        > Working.
                        > > I completed the Abramelin working in September 2004, following
                        the
                        > Mathers
                        > > translation from the French, although I was also aware of the pre-
                        > published
                        > > Dehn translation from the German. I carried out and completed the
                        > ritual
                        > > over 172 days following the instructions as written, in the
                        context
                        > of
                        > > thirty years experience of esoteric work and academic study. I
                        > perhaps am
                        > > therefore someone who might validly respond to your request.
                        > >
                        > > I entirely disagree with most of your posting as I understand it.
                        > >
                        > > The conflation of terminology is perhaps indicative of a wider
                        > confusion. In
                        > > a separate posting, you refer to "higher" satanic concepts such
                        as
                        > Xeper and
                        > > Thelema. You may know that one of the first promulgators of the
                        > philosophy
                        > > of Thelema was Augustine of Hippo. In what way was he "satanic"?
                        > Authors
                        > > such as Webb, Lavey and the O.N.A. have translated "xeper"
                        > and "neter" much
                        > > in their understanding of ancient egyptian cosmology - again,
                        there
                        > is no
                        > > comparable term in the specific tantric sects that might be
                        viewed
                        > as "on
                        > > the left hand".
                        > >
                        > > The "ritual of the HGA" is absolutely not "very much about
                        > connecting with
                        > > your true self (sic)". It - if anything - is quite the opposite,
                        in
                        > my
                        > > experience.
                        > >
                        > > You cannot "quit" half-way through and still "meet your HGA".
                        Your
                        > very
                        > > terminology of "meet" the HGA betrays that you have not had the
                        > experience.
                        > > There is no "meeting"; it is "knowledge and conversation".
                        > >
                        > > The ritual is not a 'shamanic' experience.
                        > >
                        > > You say you "abandoned" the ritual but did not fail because "you
                        > cannot
                        > > fail".
                        > >
                        > > I abandoned training for this years olympic games but I did not
                        > fail to
                        > > compete. I quit half-way through the race but I won the gold
                        medal.
                        > > Possible, but unlikely.
                        > >
                        > > As Athena has posted, I do not deny your experience. But I think
                        I
                        > waited
                        > > for the bus to come and went to Paris, as it said in the
                        timetable,
                        > and you
                        > > didn't wait, hopped on a flatbed trailer that looked like a bus
                        to
                        > you and
                        > > ended up somewhere other than Paris.
                        > >
                        > > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
                        > >
                        > > Frater F.P.
                        > > http://www.farawaycentre.com
                        > > Learn to live a Magickal Life!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: His Excellency
                        > > To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 3:00 PM
                        > > Subject: [abramelin] Clarification (Concerning the LHP)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Greetings & Blessings,
                        > >
                        > > I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that many
                        > will
                        > > understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a LHP
                        > > perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not
                        possible.
                        > > You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP perspective. I
                        > > attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very
                        > subject.
                        > >
                        > > The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with your true
                        > > self. You might do this by listening to music or watching movies
                        > that
                        > > you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects with
                        your
                        > > childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about finding and
                        > > reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the ritual
                        could
                        > > consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.
                        > >
                        > > Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a
                        strong
                        > > connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor of the
                        > books
                        > > that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely
                        > connected
                        > > to the land around my house, in particular the area in which I was
                        > > performing my daily orations. This connection has continued and my
                        > > oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say if
                        this
                        > is
                        > > everyone's experience or simply my own.
                        > >
                        > > Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects continue to
                        > take
                        > > place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You could
                        quit
                        > > part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the
                        danger
                        > lies
                        > > for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal with the
                        > > psychological effects which the ritual brings about.
                        > >
                        > > Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing the
                        > abyss"
                        > > as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic
                        > experience.
                        > > It is not related to the process of becoming a magus, although
                        both
                        > > create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately results
                        > in a
                        > > new mental state.
                        > >
                        > > There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are just a
                        > few.
                        > > This is my first post since performing the ritual last year. I
                        began
                        > > the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and
                        then
                        > went
                        > > back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the rite
                        > > altogether.
                        > >
                        > > Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point
                        entirely.
                        > > You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of its own
                        > > accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal
                        forces.
                        > I
                        > > have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes
                        provide a
                        > > balanced perspective of deity.
                        > >
                        > > I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a
                        > refection
                        > > of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP,
                        however,
                        > is
                        > > unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity only.
                        By
                        > > doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This is as
                        > > unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and
                        > feminine
                        > > principles of deity.)
                        > >
                        > > With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on the
                        > negative
                        > > draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the light
                        and
                        > > love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the HGA
                        > cannot
                        > > be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the
                        > existence
                        > > of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity. Also, if
                        you
                        > > begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.
                        > >
                        > > In light and love,
                        > >
                        > > A^zael
                        > >
                        > > p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej. You may
                        > > still find a selection of books I have written (including the
                        > Demonic
                        > > Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.
                        > (Http://www.deitus.org)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                        > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
                        > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date:
                        > 9/12/2008
                        > > 6:56 AM
                        > >
                        >
                      • wright.dion
                        ... of Consecration this week. Wish me luck.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 17, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          "haussofcompassion" <JoshuaHill1@...> wrote:

                          >I have only a short time left and I start the final week and the Day
                          of Consecration this week. Wish me luck.<

                          Good luck frater.
                        • Georg Dehn
                          dear Frater Hauss and all You great brothers and sisters after joining the group I watched Your conversation for a few days. It is thrilling to go through all
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 17, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            dear Frater Hauss
                            and all You great brothers and sisters

                            after joining the group I watched Your conversation for a few days. It
                            is thrilling to go through all the statements as I have some experience
                            with the inner work. Therefore I call You brothers and sisters as none
                            of You has communicated things that I didn't meet on my various ways.

                            But not everything of the said experiences are Abramelin experiences.
                            Some is very psycho-logistic some is too rational. One fact is evident:
                            Abramelin is not Shamanistic.
                            I liked the sentence, that if You start it Satanistic, You will not
                            remain one.
                            And: "You can not fail."

                            My own insight is, that the Abramelin never ends. Surely You cannot stop
                            in the middle. Though it will bring You a result, but going through to
                            the end, You will see it is an initiation and then YOU start. The
                            Abramelin then will send You back home into the "Old World" and You find
                            Your way through the middle east countries, where civilization started
                            and you're heading via greek empire of the classic and the Roman sphere
                            finally to France which taught us liberty and equality and brotherhood
                            not so many years ago. It finally is the journey through your own
                            civilization and socialization and spreading of consciousness.

                            Meeting the Angel is not the final experience, it is the initial experience.

                            I found the many small advices within each of the three periods are
                            also to be seen as a collection of exerzices. Each You can do
                            separately. Like periods of silence, periods without sex, periods of
                            certain food and so on.

                            The question of the duration of the periods is easy:
                            three times two months is nothing. I am an astrologer and what are two
                            months? If you're heading to 18 months sounds good just for the fact,
                            that the natural cycle of one year is icluded. And it is the doubling of
                            the 9 Months. It makes much sence.

                            If You see the length of the periods from the point of
                            time-is-not-important then it also is self evident, that You choose a
                            duration that lasts longer than Your feeling can control. Two months are
                            something to wait for. It is schoolkid exercise. It is the same fault as
                            if You do Yoga using an alarm clock. The fifth or tenth time Your
                            subconscous will know when it is over and You start "coming back"
                            waiting for the end of term. Good, or real Yoga starts, when You sit and
                            once forget time. If it is two minutes or two hours, never mind.

                            So if You do the Ritual do it for so many days, that You cannot count
                            them. Neither intuitively, nor consciously. More than hundred days each
                            period is good. Abraham von Worms modelled it around the jewish
                            calendar, so it fits to the big holidays of the Monotheisitc religions
                            as well as the Pagans. That's it and it makes sence.

                            After all there are experiences relating to each period. If You made
                            them, the thing had it's peak. Your inner feeling, Your intuition would
                            tell You if it is good to start the next period. They might be different
                            in duration.

                            Time is a hidden enemy.
                            Novalis said:
                            Wenn nicht mehr Zahlen und Figuren
                            sind Schlüssel aller Kreaturen
                            ....

                            - when Numbers and figures are not longer the keys to creatures (and
                            entities)

                            This is avoiding time measuring, but also means, when Abraham von Worms
                            says, never _learn_ a prayer out of heart. Only learn to pray out of
                            Your heart, spontaneously, intense, intuitive, mindless, without
                            thinking. Pray as if You weep or as if You laugh. Then You do it with
                            the right thought and intention. You might loose the reason and wish
                            which was fore- or background for praying, but You find the right
                            content. The words find themselves, not Your brain has to find them.
                            Spiritual communicaton has no purpose. This is a big error in
                            rationalistic, intellectdomesticated practical thought. Communication is
                            fulfilling the needs of the spiritual world. Call them, tell them and
                            they give You what is in Your need. Give without asking and take without
                            questioning.

                            So don't learn "right" words and on the other hand, don't count and
                            measure. Don't set a time like a frame. AvW lead through three jewish
                            holidays. These are related to natural cycles, related to Your own
                            feeling with the seasons. So the time comes "by itself" not because of a
                            frame. Just go for two summers and a winter.

                            I could go on writing. Please apologize if too long or too hard to
                            understand. I just end now.

                            Dear friends,
                            dear Hauss

                            I wish You luck,
                            share my love and blessed be

                            Georg





                            haussofcompassion schrieb:
                            >
                            > Greetings Azael:
                            >
                            > I am on the last weeks of performing this ritual. I hop online only
                            > once in a while and then to pursue something that was an object of my
                            > meditations. Of course I stopped and read what's new on our web
                            > site. You said you finished the rite even though you stopped part
                            > way through.
                            >
                            > Did you still achieve mastery over the Unredeemed Spirits? Were you
                            > given the squares to rule over them? Did you ever make them swear
                            > obedience? I'm just wondering how many of the promised results you
                            > achieved.
                            >
                            > I have only a short time left and I start the final week and the Day
                            > of Consecration this week. Wish me luck.
                            >
                            > --Frater Hauss
                            >
                            > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:abramelin%40yahoogroups.com>,
                            > "A^zael" <chadianmiller@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > This will be my last post as it is not my intent to dialogue on
                            > whose
                            > > experience is valid. The ego naturally confirms ones own and
                            > > renounces others. I might as well attempt to get baptists,
                            > catholics,
                            > > and pentacosts to decide who has the "holy spirit."
                            > >
                            > > You compare the Abramelin Working to completing a marathon and
                            > equate
                            > > the HGA to a gold medal. Is the spirit of truth reserved to the
                            > > enlightened few? Are the angels of god rewards which are meeted out
                            > > to winners?
                            > >
                            > > It is written that the HGA is given to each soul at the moment of
                            > > conception. It may be better then to compare the Abramelin Working
                            > to
                            > > the process one goes through in developing natural talents. Is a
                            > > singer less of a singer if she does not take vocal training? Is a
                            > > musician or an artist less an artist if he does not study music or
                            > > art history?
                            > >
                            > > Magic involves the application of little understood laws of nature.
                            > > You can compare the Abramelin Working to scientific study of
                            > natural
                            > > laws. Without an understanding of physics, is one in danger of
                            > > floating away from the earth in defiance of gravity? Can we say
                            > that
                            > > without knowledge of genetics or biology one is unable to procreate?
                            > >
                            > > I am sure there are a few in this group with a vested interest in
                            > > convincing others that they have completed the Working and have the
                            > > answers to help others do the same. The group is, of course, named
                            > > Abramelin and its stated purpose is such. As with any magickal
                            > order,
                            > > the few dictate to the many what is true. This truth is illusory.
                            > > Taken out of the context of the group, it is just an opinion.
                            > >
                            > > There are a great many ego games. Those with little power in their
                            > > lives exalt themselves as authorities. I have nothing to prove. I
                            > can
                            > > only state truth as I understand it and then let others make up
                            > their
                            > > own minds on the matter. My statement that anyone can conduct the
                            > > Working without too much hoo-choo flies in the face of those who
                            > want
                            > > to be the teachers and guides of the spiritual journeys of others.
                            > >
                            > > Light and Love,
                            > >
                            > > A^zael
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com
                            > <mailto:abramelin%40yahoogroups.com>, "MARCUS KATZ" <marcus@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hello
                            > > >
                            > > > By our Work we are Changed.
                            > > >
                            > > > You asked for comments from those who have completed the
                            > Abramelin
                            > > Working.
                            > > > I completed the Abramelin working in September 2004, following
                            > the
                            > > Mathers
                            > > > translation from the French, although I was also aware of the pre-
                            > > published
                            > > > Dehn translation from the German. I carried out and completed the
                            > > ritual
                            > > > over 172 days following the instructions as written, in the
                            > context
                            > > of
                            > > > thirty years experience of esoteric work and academic study. I
                            > > perhaps am
                            > > > therefore someone who might validly respond to your request.
                            > > >
                            > > > I entirely disagree with most of your posting as I understand it.
                            > > >
                            > > > The conflation of terminology is perhaps indicative of a wider
                            > > confusion. In
                            > > > a separate posting, you refer to "higher" satanic concepts such
                            > as
                            > > Xeper and
                            > > > Thelema. You may know that one of the first promulgators of the
                            > > philosophy
                            > > > of Thelema was Augustine of Hippo. In what way was he "satanic"?
                            > > Authors
                            > > > such as Webb, Lavey and the O.N.A. have translated "xeper"
                            > > and "neter" much
                            > > > in their understanding of ancient egyptian cosmology - again,
                            > there
                            > > is no
                            > > > comparable term in the specific tantric sects that might be
                            > viewed
                            > > as "on
                            > > > the left hand".
                            > > >
                            > > > The "ritual of the HGA" is absolutely not "very much about
                            > > connecting with
                            > > > your true self (sic)". It - if anything - is quite the opposite,
                            > in
                            > > my
                            > > > experience.
                            > > >
                            > > > You cannot "quit" half-way through and still "meet your HGA".
                            > Your
                            > > very
                            > > > terminology of "meet" the HGA betrays that you have not had the
                            > > experience.
                            > > > There is no "meeting"; it is "knowledge and conversation".
                            > > >
                            > > > The ritual is not a 'shamanic' experience.
                            > > >
                            > > > You say you "abandoned" the ritual but did not fail because "you
                            > > cannot
                            > > > fail".
                            > > >
                            > > > I abandoned training for this years olympic games but I did not
                            > > fail to
                            > > > compete. I quit half-way through the race but I won the gold
                            > medal.
                            > > > Possible, but unlikely.
                            > > >
                            > > > As Athena has posted, I do not deny your experience. But I think
                            > I
                            > > waited
                            > > > for the bus to come and went to Paris, as it said in the
                            > timetable,
                            > > and you
                            > > > didn't wait, hopped on a flatbed trailer that looked like a bus
                            > to
                            > > you and
                            > > > ended up somewhere other than Paris.
                            > > >
                            > > > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
                            > > >
                            > > > Frater F.P.
                            > > > http://www.farawaycentre.com <http://www.farawaycentre.com>
                            > > > Learn to live a Magickal Life!
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                            > > > From: His Excellency
                            > > > To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:abramelin%40yahoogroups.com>
                            > > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 3:00 PM
                            > > > Subject: [abramelin] Clarification (Concerning the LHP)
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Greetings & Blessings,
                            > > >
                            > > > I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that many
                            > > will
                            > > > understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a LHP
                            > > > perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not
                            > possible.
                            > > > You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP perspective. I
                            > > > attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very
                            > > subject.
                            > > >
                            > > > The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with your true
                            > > > self. You might do this by listening to music or watching movies
                            > > that
                            > > > you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects with
                            > your
                            > > > childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about finding and
                            > > > reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the ritual
                            > could
                            > > > consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.
                            > > >
                            > > > Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a
                            > strong
                            > > > connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor of the
                            > > books
                            > > > that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely
                            > > connected
                            > > > to the land around my house, in particular the area in which I was
                            > > > performing my daily orations. This connection has continued and my
                            > > > oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say if
                            > this
                            > > is
                            > > > everyone's experience or simply my own.
                            > > >
                            > > > Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects continue to
                            > > take
                            > > > place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You could
                            > quit
                            > > > part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the
                            > danger
                            > > lies
                            > > > for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal with the
                            > > > psychological effects which the ritual brings about.
                            > > >
                            > > > Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing the
                            > > abyss"
                            > > > as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic
                            > > experience.
                            > > > It is not related to the process of becoming a magus, although
                            > both
                            > > > create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately results
                            > > in a
                            > > > new mental state.
                            > > >
                            > > > There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are just a
                            > > few.
                            > > > This is my first post since performing the ritual last year. I
                            > began
                            > > > the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and
                            > then
                            > > went
                            > > > back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the rite
                            > > > altogether.
                            > > >
                            > > > Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point
                            > entirely.
                            > > > You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of its own
                            > > > accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal
                            > forces.
                            > > I
                            > > > have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes
                            > provide a
                            > > > balanced perspective of deity.
                            > > >
                            > > > I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a
                            > > refection
                            > > > of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP,
                            > however,
                            > > is
                            > > > unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity only.
                            > By
                            > > > doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This is as
                            > > > unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and
                            > > feminine
                            > > > principles of deity.)
                            > > >
                            > > > With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on the
                            > > negative
                            > > > draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the light
                            > and
                            > > > love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the HGA
                            > > cannot
                            > > > be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the
                            > > existence
                            > > > of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity. Also, if
                            > you
                            > > > begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.
                            > > >
                            > > > In light and love,
                            > > >
                            > > > A^zael
                            > > >
                            > > > p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej. You may
                            > > > still find a selection of books I have written (including the
                            > > Demonic
                            > > > Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.
                            > > (Http://www.deitus.org <Http://www.deitus.org>)
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                            > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                            > > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release Date:
                            > > 9/12/2008
                            > > > 6:56 AM
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                          • haussofcompassion
                            Thank you brother. It took forever to find almond wood and I actually got it from a home improvement place that sold some as firewood. I ll spend tomorrow
                            Message 13 of 16 , Sep 17, 2008
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                              Thank you brother. It took forever to find almond wood and I actually
                              got it from a home improvement place that sold some as firewood. I'll
                              spend tomorrow sawing it and sanding it down into a small stick. Oh,
                              what fun... Lol. Now it's back to my meditations again... :D

                              --Hauss


                              --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "wright.dion" <dswrightca@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > "haussofcompassion" <JoshuaHill1@> wrote:
                              >
                              > >I have only a short time left and I start the final week and the
                              Day
                              > of Consecration this week. Wish me luck.<
                              >
                              > Good luck frater.
                              >
                            • haussofcompassion
                              Thank you Mr. Dehn: This is my last post here for a while. Starting tomorrow I ll do my Day of Consecration and spend at least a week focused wholly on the
                              Message 14 of 16 , Sep 18, 2008
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                                Thank you Mr. Dehn:

                                This is my last post here for a while. Starting tomorrow I'll do my
                                Day of Consecration and spend at least a week focused wholly on the
                                task at hand. The time has come to see whether or not my efforts
                                have been in vain. I am stressed, nervous, enthusuastic, and a
                                little apprehensive. I do not know what the next week shall bring
                                but it is time to "man up" as we say here in the United States.

                                Thank you Mr. Dehn, Athena, David, and everyone else here on this
                                forum who have encouraged me and shared some of their own
                                experiences. I hope to be able to ad my success to yours as well.

                                I never did send the brother the almond branch and just barely got
                                it myself, and then in the form of firewood! But everything is
                                coming into place now. I'll let everyone know later whether or not I
                                got the hoped for results or whether or not I'll have to make
                                another attempt, which I sincerely hope not.

                                In Life and Light,


                                Frater Hauss

                                --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Georg Dehn <gd@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > dear Frater Hauss
                                > and all You great brothers and sisters
                                >
                                > after joining the group I watched Your conversation for a few
                                days. It
                                > is thrilling to go through all the statements as I have some
                                experience
                                > with the inner work. Therefore I call You brothers and sisters as
                                none
                                > of You has communicated things that I didn't meet on my various
                                ways.
                                >
                                > But not everything of the said experiences are Abramelin
                                experiences.
                                > Some is very psycho-logistic some is too rational. One fact is
                                evident:
                                > Abramelin is not Shamanistic.
                                > I liked the sentence, that if You start it Satanistic, You will
                                not
                                > remain one.
                                > And: "You can not fail."
                                >
                                > My own insight is, that the Abramelin never ends. Surely You
                                cannot stop
                                > in the middle. Though it will bring You a result, but going
                                through to
                                > the end, You will see it is an initiation and then YOU start. The
                                > Abramelin then will send You back home into the "Old World" and
                                You find
                                > Your way through the middle east countries, where civilization
                                started
                                > and you're heading via greek empire of the classic and the Roman
                                sphere
                                > finally to France which taught us liberty and equality and
                                brotherhood
                                > not so many years ago. It finally is the journey through your own
                                > civilization and socialization and spreading of consciousness.
                                >
                                > Meeting the Angel is not the final experience, it is the initial
                                experience.
                                >
                                > I found the many small advices within each of the three periods
                                are
                                > also to be seen as a collection of exerzices. Each You can do
                                > separately. Like periods of silence, periods without sex, periods
                                of
                                > certain food and so on.
                                >
                                > The question of the duration of the periods is easy:
                                > three times two months is nothing. I am an astrologer and what are
                                two
                                > months? If you're heading to 18 months sounds good just for the
                                fact,
                                > that the natural cycle of one year is icluded. And it is the
                                doubling of
                                > the 9 Months. It makes much sence.
                                >
                                > If You see the length of the periods from the point of
                                > time-is-not-important then it also is self evident, that You
                                choose a
                                > duration that lasts longer than Your feeling can control. Two
                                months are
                                > something to wait for. It is schoolkid exercise. It is the same
                                fault as
                                > if You do Yoga using an alarm clock. The fifth or tenth time Your
                                > subconscous will know when it is over and You start "coming back"
                                > waiting for the end of term. Good, or real Yoga starts, when You
                                sit and
                                > once forget time. If it is two minutes or two hours, never mind.
                                >
                                > So if You do the Ritual do it for so many days, that You cannot
                                count
                                > them. Neither intuitively, nor consciously. More than hundred days
                                each
                                > period is good. Abraham von Worms modelled it around the jewish
                                > calendar, so it fits to the big holidays of the Monotheisitc
                                religions
                                > as well as the Pagans. That's it and it makes sence.
                                >
                                > After all there are experiences relating to each period. If You
                                made
                                > them, the thing had it's peak. Your inner feeling, Your intuition
                                would
                                > tell You if it is good to start the next period. They might be
                                different
                                > in duration.
                                >
                                > Time is a hidden enemy.
                                > Novalis said:
                                > Wenn nicht mehr Zahlen und Figuren
                                > sind Schlüssel aller Kreaturen
                                > ....
                                >
                                > - when Numbers and figures are not longer the keys to creatures
                                (and
                                > entities)
                                >
                                > This is avoiding time measuring, but also means, when Abraham von
                                Worms
                                > says, never _learn_ a prayer out of heart. Only learn to pray out
                                of
                                > Your heart, spontaneously, intense, intuitive, mindless, without
                                > thinking. Pray as if You weep or as if You laugh. Then You do it
                                with
                                > the right thought and intention. You might loose the reason and
                                wish
                                > which was fore- or background for praying, but You find the right
                                > content. The words find themselves, not Your brain has to find
                                them.
                                > Spiritual communicaton has no purpose. This is a big error in
                                > rationalistic, intellectdomesticated practical thought.
                                Communication is
                                > fulfilling the needs of the spiritual world. Call them, tell them
                                and
                                > they give You what is in Your need. Give without asking and take
                                without
                                > questioning.
                                >
                                > So don't learn "right" words and on the other hand, don't count
                                and
                                > measure. Don't set a time like a frame. AvW lead through three
                                jewish
                                > holidays. These are related to natural cycles, related to Your own
                                > feeling with the seasons. So the time comes "by itself" not
                                because of a
                                > frame. Just go for two summers and a winter.
                                >
                                > I could go on writing. Please apologize if too long or too hard to
                                > understand. I just end now.
                                >
                                > Dear friends,
                                > dear Hauss
                                >
                                > I wish You luck,
                                > share my love and blessed be
                                >
                                > Georg
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > haussofcompassion schrieb:
                                > >
                                > > Greetings Azael:
                                > >
                                > > I am on the last weeks of performing this ritual. I hop online
                                only
                                > > once in a while and then to pursue something that was an object
                                of my
                                > > meditations. Of course I stopped and read what's new on our web
                                > > site. You said you finished the rite even though you stopped part
                                > > way through.
                                > >
                                > > Did you still achieve mastery over the Unredeemed Spirits? Were
                                you
                                > > given the squares to rule over them? Did you ever make them swear
                                > > obedience? I'm just wondering how many of the promised results
                                you
                                > > achieved.
                                > >
                                > > I have only a short time left and I start the final week and the
                                Day
                                > > of Consecration this week. Wish me luck.
                                > >
                                > > --Frater Hauss
                                > >
                                > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:abramelin%
                                40yahoogroups.com>,
                                > > "A^zael" <chadianmiller@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > This will be my last post as it is not my intent to dialogue on
                                > > whose
                                > > > experience is valid. The ego naturally confirms ones own and
                                > > > renounces others. I might as well attempt to get baptists,
                                > > catholics,
                                > > > and pentacosts to decide who has the "holy spirit."
                                > > >
                                > > > You compare the Abramelin Working to completing a marathon and
                                > > equate
                                > > > the HGA to a gold medal. Is the spirit of truth reserved to the
                                > > > enlightened few? Are the angels of god rewards which are
                                meeted out
                                > > > to winners?
                                > > >
                                > > > It is written that the HGA is given to each soul at the moment
                                of
                                > > > conception. It may be better then to compare the Abramelin
                                Working
                                > > to
                                > > > the process one goes through in developing natural talents. Is
                                a
                                > > > singer less of a singer if she does not take vocal training?
                                Is a
                                > > > musician or an artist less an artist if he does not study
                                music or
                                > > > art history?
                                > > >
                                > > > Magic involves the application of little understood laws of
                                nature.
                                > > > You can compare the Abramelin Working to scientific study of
                                > > natural
                                > > > laws. Without an understanding of physics, is one in danger of
                                > > > floating away from the earth in defiance of gravity? Can we say
                                > > that
                                > > > without knowledge of genetics or biology one is unable to
                                procreate?
                                > > >
                                > > > I am sure there are a few in this group with a vested interest
                                in
                                > > > convincing others that they have completed the Working and
                                have the
                                > > > answers to help others do the same. The group is, of course,
                                named
                                > > > Abramelin and its stated purpose is such. As with any magickal
                                > > order,
                                > > > the few dictate to the many what is true. This truth is
                                illusory.
                                > > > Taken out of the context of the group, it is just an opinion.
                                > > >
                                > > > There are a great many ego games. Those with little power in
                                their
                                > > > lives exalt themselves as authorities. I have nothing to
                                prove. I
                                > > can
                                > > > only state truth as I understand it and then let others make up
                                > > their
                                > > > own minds on the matter. My statement that anyone can conduct
                                the
                                > > > Working without too much hoo-choo flies in the face of those
                                who
                                > > want
                                > > > to be the teachers and guides of the spiritual journeys of
                                others.
                                > > >
                                > > > Light and Love,
                                > > >
                                > > > A^zael
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com
                                > > <mailto:abramelin%40yahoogroups.com>, "MARCUS KATZ" <marcus@>
                                wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Hello
                                > > > >
                                > > > > By our Work we are Changed.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > You asked for comments from those who have completed the
                                > > Abramelin
                                > > > Working.
                                > > > > I completed the Abramelin working in September 2004,
                                following
                                > > the
                                > > > Mathers
                                > > > > translation from the French, although I was also aware of
                                the pre-
                                > > > published
                                > > > > Dehn translation from the German. I carried out and
                                completed the
                                > > > ritual
                                > > > > over 172 days following the instructions as written, in the
                                > > context
                                > > > of
                                > > > > thirty years experience of esoteric work and academic study.
                                I
                                > > > perhaps am
                                > > > > therefore someone who might validly respond to your request.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I entirely disagree with most of your posting as I
                                understand it.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The conflation of terminology is perhaps indicative of a
                                wider
                                > > > confusion. In
                                > > > > a separate posting, you refer to "higher" satanic concepts
                                such
                                > > as
                                > > > Xeper and
                                > > > > Thelema. You may know that one of the first promulgators of
                                the
                                > > > philosophy
                                > > > > of Thelema was Augustine of Hippo. In what way was
                                he "satanic"?
                                > > > Authors
                                > > > > such as Webb, Lavey and the O.N.A. have translated "xeper"
                                > > > and "neter" much
                                > > > > in their understanding of ancient egyptian cosmology - again,
                                > > there
                                > > > is no
                                > > > > comparable term in the specific tantric sects that might be
                                > > viewed
                                > > > as "on
                                > > > > the left hand".
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The "ritual of the HGA" is absolutely not "very much about
                                > > > connecting with
                                > > > > your true self (sic)". It - if anything - is quite the
                                opposite,
                                > > in
                                > > > my
                                > > > > experience.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > You cannot "quit" half-way through and still "meet your HGA".
                                > > Your
                                > > > very
                                > > > > terminology of "meet" the HGA betrays that you have not had
                                the
                                > > > experience.
                                > > > > There is no "meeting"; it is "knowledge and conversation".
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The ritual is not a 'shamanic' experience.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > You say you "abandoned" the ritual but did not fail
                                because "you
                                > > > cannot
                                > > > > fail".
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I abandoned training for this years olympic games but I did
                                not
                                > > > fail to
                                > > > > compete. I quit half-way through the race but I won the gold
                                > > medal.
                                > > > > Possible, but unlikely.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > As Athena has posted, I do not deny your experience. But I
                                think
                                > > I
                                > > > waited
                                > > > > for the bus to come and went to Paris, as it said in the
                                > > timetable,
                                > > > and you
                                > > > > didn't wait, hopped on a flatbed trailer that looked like a
                                bus
                                > > to
                                > > > you and
                                > > > > ended up somewhere other than Paris.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Frater F.P.
                                > > > > http://www.farawaycentre.com <http://www.farawaycentre.com>
                                > > > > Learn to live a Magickal Life!
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                > > > > From: His Excellency
                                > > > > To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:abramelin%
                                40yahoogroups.com>
                                > > > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 3:00 PM
                                > > > > Subject: [abramelin] Clarification (Concerning the LHP)
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Greetings & Blessings,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that
                                many
                                > > > will
                                > > > > understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a
                                LHP
                                > > > > perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not
                                > > possible.
                                > > > > You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP
                                perspective. I
                                > > > > attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very
                                > > > subject.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with
                                your true
                                > > > > self. You might do this by listening to music or watching
                                movies
                                > > > that
                                > > > > you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects
                                with
                                > > your
                                > > > > childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about
                                finding and
                                > > > > reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the
                                ritual
                                > > could
                                > > > > consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a
                                > > strong
                                > > > > connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor
                                of the
                                > > > books
                                > > > > that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely
                                > > > connected
                                > > > > to the land around my house, in particular the area in which
                                I was
                                > > > > performing my daily orations. This connection has continued
                                and my
                                > > > > oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say
                                if
                                > > this
                                > > > is
                                > > > > everyone's experience or simply my own.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects
                                continue to
                                > > > take
                                > > > > place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You
                                could
                                > > quit
                                > > > > part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the
                                > > danger
                                > > > lies
                                > > > > for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal
                                with the
                                > > > > psychological effects which the ritual brings about.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing
                                the
                                > > > abyss"
                                > > > > as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic
                                > > > experience.
                                > > > > It is not related to the process of becoming a magus,
                                although
                                > > both
                                > > > > create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately
                                results
                                > > > in a
                                > > > > new mental state.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are
                                just a
                                > > > few.
                                > > > > This is my first post since performing the ritual last year.
                                I
                                > > began
                                > > > > the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and
                                > > then
                                > > > went
                                > > > > back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the
                                rite
                                > > > > altogether.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point
                                > > entirely.
                                > > > > You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of
                                its own
                                > > > > accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal
                                > > forces.
                                > > > I
                                > > > > have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes
                                > > provide a
                                > > > > balanced perspective of deity.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a
                                > > > refection
                                > > > > of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP,
                                > > however,
                                > > > is
                                > > > > unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity
                                only.
                                > > By
                                > > > > doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This
                                is as
                                > > > > unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and
                                > > > feminine
                                > > > > principles of deity.)
                                > > > >
                                > > > > With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on
                                the
                                > > > negative
                                > > > > draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the
                                light
                                > > and
                                > > > > love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the
                                HGA
                                > > > cannot
                                > > > > be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the
                                > > > existence
                                > > > > of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity.
                                Also, if
                                > > you
                                > > > > begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > In light and love,
                                > > > >
                                > > > > A^zael
                                > > > >
                                > > > > p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej.
                                You may
                                > > > > still find a selection of books I have written (including the
                                > > > Demonic
                                > > > > Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.
                                > > > (Http://www.deitus.org <Http://www.deitus.org>)
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                > > > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release
                                Date:
                                > > > 9/12/2008
                                > > > > 6:56 AM
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Athena
                                I ll catch up on the posts later, but I just wanted to wish you the best of luck and let you know that at this point you cannot fail as long as you actually go
                                Message 15 of 16 , Sep 18, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  I'll catch up on the posts later, but I just wanted to wish you the best of luck and let you know that at this point you cannot fail as long as you actually go through each step (and don't let anyone see/distract you if you can help it, during that week).  The only thing that may get in the way is your mind telling you that it didn't work, but just keep on going anyways :).  When you unite with your HGA there is nothing quite like it...  I was extremely nervous, terrified, and etc. the night before I was to fully meet my HGA!  I barely slept at all LOL. 

                                  Athena
                                  --
                                  www.enochian.org

                                  On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 1:34 PM, haussofcompassion <JoshuaHill1@...> wrote:

                                  Thank you Mr. Dehn:

                                  This is my last post here for a while. Starting tomorrow I'll do my
                                  Day of Consecration and spend at least a week focused wholly on the
                                  task at hand. The time has come to see whether or not my efforts
                                  have been in vain. I am stressed, nervous, enthusuastic, and a
                                  little apprehensive. I do not know what the next week shall bring
                                  but it is time to "man up" as we say here in the United States.

                                  Thank you Mr. Dehn, Athena, David, and everyone else here on this
                                  forum who have encouraged me and shared some of their own
                                  experiences. I hope to be able to ad my success to yours as well.

                                  I never did send the brother the almond branch and just barely got
                                  it myself, and then in the form of firewood! But everything is
                                  coming into place now. I'll let everyone know later whether or not I
                                  got the hoped for results or whether or not I'll have to make
                                  another attempt, which I sincerely hope not.

                                  In Life and Light,

                                  Frater Hauss



                                  --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Georg Dehn <gd@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > dear Frater Hauss
                                  > and all You great brothers and sisters
                                  >
                                  > after joining the group I watched Your conversation for a few
                                  days. It
                                  > is thrilling to go through all the statements as I have some
                                  experience
                                  > with the inner work. Therefore I call You brothers and sisters as
                                  none
                                  > of You has communicated things that I didn't meet on my various
                                  ways.
                                  >
                                  > But not everything of the said experiences are Abramelin
                                  experiences.
                                  > Some is very psycho-logistic some is too rational. One fact is
                                  evident:
                                  > Abramelin is not Shamanistic.
                                  > I liked the sentence, that if You start it Satanistic, You will
                                  not
                                  > remain one.
                                  > And: "You can not fail."
                                  >
                                  > My own insight is, that the Abramelin never ends. Surely You
                                  cannot stop
                                  > in the middle. Though it will bring You a result, but going
                                  through to
                                  > the end, You will see it is an initiation and then YOU start. The
                                  > Abramelin then will send You back home into the "Old World" and
                                  You find
                                  > Your way through the middle east countries, where civilization
                                  started
                                  > and you're heading via greek empire of the classic and the Roman
                                  sphere
                                  > finally to France which taught us liberty and equality and
                                  brotherhood
                                  > not so many years ago. It finally is the journey through your own
                                  > civilization and socialization and spreading of consciousness.
                                  >
                                  > Meeting the Angel is not the final experience, it is the initial
                                  experience.
                                  >
                                  > I found the many small advices within each of the three periods
                                  are
                                  > also to be seen as a collection of exerzices. Each You can do
                                  > separately. Like periods of silence, periods without sex, periods
                                  of
                                  > certain food and so on.
                                  >
                                  > The question of the duration of the periods is easy:
                                  > three times two months is nothing. I am an astrologer and what are
                                  two
                                  > months? If you're heading to 18 months sounds good just for the
                                  fact,
                                  > that the natural cycle of one year is icluded. And it is the
                                  doubling of
                                  > the 9 Months. It makes much sence.
                                  >
                                  > If You see the length of the periods from the point of
                                  > time-is-not-important then it also is self evident, that You
                                  choose a
                                  > duration that lasts longer than Your feeling can control. Two
                                  months are
                                  > something to wait for. It is schoolkid exercise. It is the same
                                  fault as
                                  > if You do Yoga using an alarm clock. The fifth or tenth time Your
                                  > subconscous will know when it is over and You start "coming back"
                                  > waiting for the end of term. Good, or real Yoga starts, when You
                                  sit and
                                  > once forget time. If it is two minutes or two hours, never mind.
                                  >
                                  > So if You do the Ritual do it for so many days, that You cannot
                                  count
                                  > them. Neither intuitively, nor consciously. More than hundred days
                                  each
                                  > period is good. Abraham von Worms modelled it around the jewish
                                  > calendar, so it fits to the big holidays of the Monotheisitc
                                  religions
                                  > as well as the Pagans. That's it and it makes sence.
                                  >
                                  > After all there are experiences relating to each period. If You
                                  made
                                  > them, the thing had it's peak. Your inner feeling, Your intuition
                                  would
                                  > tell You if it is good to start the next period. They might be
                                  different
                                  > in duration.
                                  >
                                  > Time is a hidden enemy.
                                  > Novalis said:
                                  > Wenn nicht mehr Zahlen und Figuren
                                  > sind Schlüssel aller Kreaturen
                                  > ....
                                  >
                                  > - when Numbers and figures are not longer the keys to creatures
                                  (and
                                  > entities)
                                  >
                                  > This is avoiding time measuring, but also means, when Abraham von
                                  Worms
                                  > says, never _learn_ a prayer out of heart. Only learn to pray out
                                  of
                                  > Your heart, spontaneously, intense, intuitive, mindless, without
                                  > thinking. Pray as if You weep or as if You laugh. Then You do it
                                  with
                                  > the right thought and intention. You might loose the reason and
                                  wish
                                  > which was fore- or background for praying, but You find the right
                                  > content. The words find themselves, not Your brain has to find
                                  them.
                                  > Spiritual communicaton has no purpose. This is a big error in
                                  > rationalistic, intellectdomesticated practical thought.
                                  Communication is
                                  > fulfilling the needs of the spiritual world. Call them, tell them
                                  and
                                  > they give You what is in Your need. Give without asking and take
                                  without
                                  > questioning.
                                  >
                                  > So don't learn "right" words and on the other hand, don't count
                                  and
                                  > measure. Don't set a time like a frame. AvW lead through three
                                  jewish
                                  > holidays. These are related to natural cycles, related to Your own
                                  > feeling with the seasons. So the time comes "by itself" not
                                  because of a
                                  > frame. Just go for two summers and a winter.
                                  >
                                  > I could go on writing. Please apologize if too long or too hard to
                                  > understand. I just end now.
                                  >
                                  > Dear friends,
                                  > dear Hauss
                                  >
                                  > I wish You luck,
                                  > share my love and blessed be
                                  >
                                  > Georg
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > haussofcompassion schrieb:
                                  > >
                                  > > Greetings Azael:
                                  > >
                                  > > I am on the last weeks of performing this ritual. I hop online
                                  only
                                  > > once in a while and then to pursue something that was an object
                                  of my
                                  > > meditations. Of course I stopped and read what's new on our web
                                  > > site. You said you finished the rite even though you stopped part
                                  > > way through.
                                  > >
                                  > > Did you still achieve mastery over the Unredeemed Spirits? Were
                                  you
                                  > > given the squares to rule over them? Did you ever make them swear
                                  > > obedience? I'm just wondering how many of the promised results
                                  you
                                  > > achieved.
                                  > >
                                  > > I have only a short time left and I start the final week and the
                                  Day
                                  > > of Consecration this week. Wish me luck.
                                  > >
                                  > > --Frater Hauss
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:abramelin%
                                  40yahoogroups.com>,
                                  > > "A^zael" <chadianmiller@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > This will be my last post as it is not my intent to dialogue on
                                  > > whose
                                  > > > experience is valid. The ego naturally confirms ones own and
                                  > > > renounces others. I might as well attempt to get baptists,
                                  > > catholics,
                                  > > > and pentacosts to decide who has the "holy spirit."
                                  > > >
                                  > > > You compare the Abramelin Working to completing a marathon and
                                  > > equate
                                  > > > the HGA to a gold medal. Is the spirit of truth reserved to the
                                  > > > enlightened few? Are the angels of god rewards which are
                                  meeted out
                                  > > > to winners?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > It is written that the HGA is given to each soul at the moment
                                  of
                                  > > > conception. It may be better then to compare the Abramelin
                                  Working
                                  > > to
                                  > > > the process one goes through in developing natural talents. Is
                                  a
                                  > > > singer less of a singer if she does not take vocal training?
                                  Is a
                                  > > > musician or an artist less an artist if he does not study
                                  music or
                                  > > > art history?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Magic involves the application of little understood laws of
                                  nature.
                                  > > > You can compare the Abramelin Working to scientific study of
                                  > > natural
                                  > > > laws. Without an understanding of physics, is one in danger of
                                  > > > floating away from the earth in defiance of gravity? Can we say
                                  > > that
                                  > > > without knowledge of genetics or biology one is unable to
                                  procreate?
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I am sure there are a few in this group with a vested interest
                                  in
                                  > > > convincing others that they have completed the Working and
                                  have the
                                  > > > answers to help others do the same. The group is, of course,
                                  named
                                  > > > Abramelin and its stated purpose is such. As with any magickal
                                  > > order,
                                  > > > the few dictate to the many what is true. This truth is
                                  illusory.
                                  > > > Taken out of the context of the group, it is just an opinion.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > There are a great many ego games. Those with little power in
                                  their
                                  > > > lives exalt themselves as authorities. I have nothing to
                                  prove. I
                                  > > can
                                  > > > only state truth as I understand it and then let others make up
                                  > > their
                                  > > > own minds on the matter. My statement that anyone can conduct
                                  the
                                  > > > Working without too much hoo-choo flies in the face of those
                                  who
                                  > > want
                                  > > > to be the teachers and guides of the spiritual journeys of
                                  others.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > Light and Love,
                                  > > >
                                  > > > A^zael
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > <mailto:abramelin%40yahoogroups.com>, "MARCUS KATZ" <marcus@>
                                  wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Hello
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > By our Work we are Changed.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > You asked for comments from those who have completed the
                                  > > Abramelin
                                  > > > Working.
                                  > > > > I completed the Abramelin working in September 2004,
                                  following
                                  > > the
                                  > > > Mathers
                                  > > > > translation from the French, although I was also aware of
                                  the pre-
                                  > > > published
                                  > > > > Dehn translation from the German. I carried out and
                                  completed the
                                  > > > ritual
                                  > > > > over 172 days following the instructions as written, in the
                                  > > context
                                  > > > of
                                  > > > > thirty years experience of esoteric work and academic study.
                                  I
                                  > > > perhaps am
                                  > > > > therefore someone who might validly respond to your request.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I entirely disagree with most of your posting as I
                                  understand it.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The conflation of terminology is perhaps indicative of a
                                  wider
                                  > > > confusion. In
                                  > > > > a separate posting, you refer to "higher" satanic concepts
                                  such
                                  > > as
                                  > > > Xeper and
                                  > > > > Thelema. You may know that one of the first promulgators of
                                  the
                                  > > > philosophy
                                  > > > > of Thelema was Augustine of Hippo. In what way was
                                  he "satanic"?
                                  > > > Authors
                                  > > > > such as Webb, Lavey and the O.N.A. have translated "xeper"
                                  > > > and "neter" much
                                  > > > > in their understanding of ancient egyptian cosmology - again,
                                  > > there
                                  > > > is no
                                  > > > > comparable term in the specific tantric sects that might be
                                  > > viewed
                                  > > > as "on
                                  > > > > the left hand".
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The "ritual of the HGA" is absolutely not "very much about
                                  > > > connecting with
                                  > > > > your true self (sic)". It - if anything - is quite the
                                  opposite,
                                  > > in
                                  > > > my
                                  > > > > experience.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > You cannot "quit" half-way through and still "meet your HGA".
                                  > > Your
                                  > > > very
                                  > > > > terminology of "meet" the HGA betrays that you have not had
                                  the
                                  > > > experience.
                                  > > > > There is no "meeting"; it is "knowledge and conversation".
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The ritual is not a 'shamanic' experience.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > You say you "abandoned" the ritual but did not fail
                                  because "you
                                  > > > cannot
                                  > > > > fail".
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I abandoned training for this years olympic games but I did
                                  not
                                  > > > fail to
                                  > > > > compete. I quit half-way through the race but I won the gold
                                  > > medal.
                                  > > > > Possible, but unlikely.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > As Athena has posted, I do not deny your experience. But I
                                  think
                                  > > I
                                  > > > waited
                                  > > > > for the bus to come and went to Paris, as it said in the
                                  > > timetable,
                                  > > > and you
                                  > > > > didn't wait, hopped on a flatbed trailer that looked like a
                                  bus
                                  > > to
                                  > > > you and
                                  > > > > ended up somewhere other than Paris.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The Worker is hidden in the Workshop
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Frater F.P.
                                  > > > > http://www.farawaycentre.com <http://www.farawaycentre.com>
                                  > > > > Learn to live a Magickal Life!
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > > > > From: His Excellency
                                  > > > > To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com <mailto:abramelin%
                                  40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > > > > Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 3:00 PM
                                  > > > > Subject: [abramelin] Clarification (Concerning the LHP)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Greetings & Blessings,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I have also completed the ritual, although not in a way that
                                  many
                                  > > > will
                                  > > > > understand. Somebody mentioned performing the ritual from a
                                  LHP
                                  > > > > perspective. I would just like to clarify that this is not
                                  > > possible.
                                  > > > > You cannot perform the ritual of the HGA from a LHP
                                  perspective. I
                                  > > > > attempted this with intentions of writing a book on this very
                                  > > > subject.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The ritual of the HGA is very much about connecting with
                                  your true
                                  > > > > self. You might do this by listening to music or watching
                                  movies
                                  > > > that
                                  > > > > you enjoyed when you were a child. Anything which connects
                                  with
                                  > > your
                                  > > > > childhood, will aid you in the ritual. It is all about
                                  finding and
                                  > > > > reconnecting with your true spiritual self. Part of the
                                  ritual
                                  > > could
                                  > > > > consist of looking at old photos or calling relatives.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Almost immediately upon beginning the ritual, I experienced a
                                  > > strong
                                  > > > > connection with the earth. This is not mentioned in eithor
                                  of the
                                  > > > books
                                  > > > > that I have seen, but was my experience. I became extremely
                                  > > > connected
                                  > > > > to the land around my house, in particular the area in which
                                  I was
                                  > > > > performing my daily orations. This connection has continued
                                  and my
                                  > > > > oration place is now my ritual area and grove. I cannot say
                                  if
                                  > > this
                                  > > > is
                                  > > > > everyone's experience or simply my own.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Once you begin the ritual, the psychological effects
                                  continue to
                                  > > > take
                                  > > > > place regardless of how well you complete the ritual. You
                                  could
                                  > > quit
                                  > > > > part way through and still meet your HGA. This is where the
                                  > > danger
                                  > > > lies
                                  > > > > for the uninitiated, since they may be unequiped to deal
                                  with the
                                  > > > > psychological effects which the ritual brings about.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Also, the ritual of the HGA has no connecting with "crossing
                                  the
                                  > > > abyss"
                                  > > > > as I had once believed. The ritual of the HGA is a shamanic
                                  > > > experience.
                                  > > > > It is not related to the process of becoming a magus,
                                  although
                                  > > both
                                  > > > > create inner turmoil within the magician which ultimately
                                  results
                                  > > > in a
                                  > > > > new mental state.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > There are other thoughts I might one day share. These are
                                  just a
                                  > > > few.
                                  > > > > This is my first post since performing the ritual last year.
                                  I
                                  > > began
                                  > > > > the ritual by the book, reverted to a Left-Hand approach, and
                                  > > then
                                  > > > went
                                  > > > > back to a Judaeo-Christian approach. I finally abandoned the
                                  rite
                                  > > > > altogether.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Some might say then that I failed, but they miss the point
                                  > > entirely.
                                  > > > > You cannot fail. Despite yourself, the ritual succeeds of
                                  its own
                                  > > > > accord. For me, the result was a balancing of many internal
                                  > > forces.
                                  > > > I
                                  > > > > have since become a Wiccan. The God and Goddess archetypes
                                  > > provide a
                                  > > > > balanced perspective of deity.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > I have explored many dark archetypes, and all of these are a
                                  > > > refection
                                  > > > > of deity. Deity includes both light and darkness. The LHP,
                                  > > however,
                                  > > > is
                                  > > > > unbalanced since it focuses upon the dark aspects of deity
                                  only.
                                  > > By
                                  > > > > doing so, it denies the many other aspects of deity. (This
                                  is as
                                  > > > > unbalanced a view as Christianity, which rejects the dark and
                                  > > > feminine
                                  > > > > principles of deity.)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > With the law of attraction like attracts like. Focusing on
                                  the
                                  > > > negative
                                  > > > > draws the negative. Satanists cut themselves off from the
                                  light
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > love which comes from the God and Goddess. The ritual of the
                                  HGA
                                  > > > cannot
                                  > > > > be approached from a LHP perspective since the LHP denies the
                                  > > > existence
                                  > > > > of deity or embraces only the negative aspect of deity.
                                  Also, if
                                  > > you
                                  > > > > begin as a Satanist, you will not remain one.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > In light and love,
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > A^zael
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > p.s. In a previous life, I was also the magus Tsirk Susej.
                                  You may
                                  > > > > still find a selection of books I have written (including the
                                  > > > Demonic
                                  > > > > Bible and the Demonic Apocrypha) on the Internet.
                                  > > > (Http://www.deitus.org <Http://www.deitus.org>)
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
                                  > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
                                  > > > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1668 - Release
                                  Date:
                                  > > > 9/12/2008
                                  > > > > 6:56 AM
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >




                                  --
                                  Odo cicle qaa
                                  --
                                  www.enochian.org
                                • Athena
                                  I hate to reply to a well written long post with just one sentence, but here goes anyways. You definitely hit the nail on the head there when you talked about
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Sep 19, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I hate to reply to a well written long post with just one sentence, but here goes anyways.  You definitely hit the nail on the head there when you talked about after meeting your HGA and the last bit of the working only being the *beginning* and then you start! :) 

                                    Athena
                                    --
                                    www.enochian.org

                                    2008/9/17 Georg Dehn <gd@...>

                                    dear Frater Hauss
                                    and all You great brothers and sisters

                                    after joining the group I watched Your conversation for a few days. It
                                    is thrilling to go through all the statements as I have some experience
                                    with the inner work. Therefore I call You brothers and sisters as none
                                    of You has communicated things that I didn't meet on my various ways.

                                    But not everything of the said experiences are Abramelin experiences.
                                    Some is very psycho-logistic some is too rational. One fact is evident:
                                    Abramelin is not Shamanistic.
                                    I liked the sentence, that if You start it Satanistic, You will not
                                    remain one.
                                    And: "You can not fail."

                                    My own insight is, that the Abramelin never ends. Surely You cannot stop
                                    in the middle. Though it will bring You a result, but going through to
                                    the end, You will see it is an initiation and then YOU start. The
                                    Abramelin then will send You back home into the "Old World" and You find
                                    Your way through the middle east countries, where civilization started
                                    and you're heading via greek empire of the classic and the Roman sphere
                                    finally to France which taught us liberty and equality and brotherhood
                                    not so many years ago. It finally is the journey through your own
                                    civilization and socialization and spreading of consciousness.

                                    Meeting the Angel is not the final experience, it is the initial experience.

                                    I found the many small advices within each of the three periods are
                                    also to be seen as a collection of exerzices. Each You can do
                                    separately. Like periods of silence, periods without sex, periods of
                                    certain food and so on.

                                    The question of the duration of the periods is easy:
                                    three times two months is nothing. I am an astrologer and what are two
                                    months? If you're heading to 18 months sounds good just for the fact,
                                    that the natural cycle of one year is icluded. And it is the doubling of
                                    the 9 Months. It makes much sence.

                                    If You see the length of the periods from the point of
                                    time-is-not-important then it also is self evident, that You choose a
                                    duration that lasts longer than Your feeling can control. Two months are
                                    something to wait for. It is schoolkid exercise. It is the same fault as
                                    if You do Yoga using an alarm clock. The fifth or tenth time Your
                                    subconscous will know when it is over and You start "coming back"
                                    waiting for the end of term. Good, or real Yoga starts, when You sit and
                                    once forget time. If it is two minutes or two hours, never mind.

                                    So if You do the Ritual do it for so many days, that You cannot count
                                    them. Neither intuitively, nor consciously. More than hundred days each
                                    period is good. Abraham von Worms modelled it around the jewish
                                    calendar, so it fits to the big holidays of the Monotheisitc religions
                                    as well as the Pagans. That's it and it makes sence.

                                    After all there are experiences relating to each period. If You made
                                    them, the thing had it's peak. Your inner feeling, Your intuition would
                                    tell You if it is good to start the next period. They might be different
                                    in duration.

                                    Time is a hidden enemy.
                                    Novalis said:
                                    Wenn nicht mehr Zahlen und Figuren
                                    sind Schlüssel aller Kreaturen
                                    ....

                                    - when Numbers and figures are not longer the keys to creatures (and
                                    entities)

                                    This is avoiding time measuring, but also means, when Abraham von Worms
                                    says, never _learn_ a prayer out of heart. Only learn to pray out of
                                    Your heart, spontaneously, intense, intuitive, mindless, without
                                    thinking. Pray as if You weep or as if You laugh. Then You do it with
                                    the right thought and intention. You might loose the reason and wish
                                    which was fore- or background for praying, but You find the right
                                    content. The words find themselves, not Your brain has to find them.
                                    Spiritual communicaton has no purpose. This is a big error in
                                    rationalistic, intellectdomesticated practical thought. Communication is
                                    fulfilling the needs of the spiritual world. Call them, tell them and
                                    they give You what is in Your need. Give without asking and take without
                                    questioning.

                                    So don't learn "right" words and on the other hand, don't count and
                                    measure. Don't set a time like a frame. AvW lead through three jewish
                                    holidays. These are related to natural cycles, related to Your own
                                    feeling with the seasons. So the time comes "by itself" not because of a
                                    frame. Just go for two summers and a winter.

                                    I could go on writing. Please apologize if too long or too hard to
                                    understand. I just end now.

                                    Dear friends,
                                    dear Hauss

                                    I wish You luck,
                                    share my love and blessed be

                                    Georg


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