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Re: Bloom's "Sacred Magician"

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  • haussofcompassion
    From what I heard of the rite, YES! But I have yet to complete it. You ll have to ask the others on this forum and ask their take on it. --Frater Hauss P.S.
    Message 1 of 25 , Jul 10, 2008
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      From what I heard of the rite, YES! But I have yet to complete it.
      You'll have to ask the others on this forum and ask their take on it.

      --Frater Hauss

      P.S. That sucks, doesn't it? Or maybe not. I have screwed up so
      many times already since I started this ritual that maybe that could
      actually work in my favor and God grants to me this great gift, not
      because of my deeds, but despite them.

      That is definitely one way to put a positive spin on it! Lol.

      --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "fictivedreamer"
      <fictivedreamer@...> wrote:
      >
      > Are you saying it also depends on "God's Grace?" So you can go
      thru the
      > six months and it just may not be "in the cards?"
      >
      >
      > --- - where the
      > > Angel concurs with its involvement.
      > >
      >
    • Athena
      ... It seems to go in spurts : . ... Apparently I have to re-read the book, as it has been years since I did, prob 10 years. I have to say it was
      Message 2 of 25 , Jul 10, 2008
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        On 7/10/08, David Stolowitz <optimystic@...> wrote:

        > Glad to see the list is getting active again :)

        It seems to go in spurts :>.

        > I ordered Bloom's book with a lot of excitement and anticipation and
        > ended up really dissapointed wtih it. It should have been
        > entitled "On the groveling of a worm", because that's exactly what he
        > ends up doing for most of it. You find a little bit of insight here
        > and there, but for a diary his notes are remarkably useless and
        > unillustrative. Plus he throws around a lot of obscure and
        > unnecessary material from Ascension spirituality that you can't
        > understand really unless you're familiar with Alice Bailey and such.

        Apparently I have to re-read the book, as it has been years since I
        did, prob 10 years. I have to say it was inspirational just to know
        someone had completed the operation though. Now adding in material
        from another system however I think would be a bad thing in any book
        about Abramelin.

        > You can do the rite in 6 months, but it seems to me to be more forced
        > and squeezed, and perhaps harder on the candidate. With the longer
        > time you have a chance for things to grow more naturally, and you'll
        > also learn more along the way so that things are easier and you've
        > got a better foundation for jumping off from once you've completed it.

        That's definitely the impression I got. It was definitely fast paced,
        and difficult. I think the 18 month version would be a more relaxing
        working, as well as have a higher success rate of people being able to
        complete it.

        > In my opinion, Bloom's experiences were not really that fantastic. I
        > think that a lot of times he was reading between the lines and
        > projecting import and meaning where there was none. It sounds like it
        > would have been really difficult to be his wife (or was it partner?)
        > at the time. Nonetheless, this doesn't really surprise me, because to
        > a degree, you have to get very self-involved with an operation like
        > this. When you're doing Abramelin, you can become very obsessed wtih
        > meaning and the whole world and everything in it can take on symbolic
        > significance that has no real relevance outside yourself and your
        > operation. The ego gets very, very paranoid, and satisfies its urges
        > through both self-aggrandizement and self-debasement. Control of
        > attitude and thoughts is still better than no control to our
        > ingrained personalities. Being put in perspective can be terrifying.

        I felt more of the whole and mySELF being irrelevent during a lot of
        it, but at the same time, oh my ego was definitely pulling out all the
        tricks! Everything to slow you down or take you from the path. I
        think it is just that the spiritual experiences are far more difficult
        to describe or put into writing then the ego battles and self absorbed
        bits...

        > Don't judge your own experience in contrast to those of others,
        > especially with an operation of such a personal character. The
        > special effects are not important compared to the personal changes
        > you undergo from within. First seek the Kingdom of God, and the signs
        > will follow.

        Definitely good advice, fully agreed :). Other people's experiences
        are completely irrelevent to this operation. Just comparing and
        contrasing your own experiences to others is just another way your
        ego/mind can get in the way, come up with doubts and so on. Basically
        if you follow the instructions (pretty much) and do the work, and do
        the final week, it WILL work (in my opinion). I personally feel that
        the operation itself is a force that pulls you along to where you need
        to be at each particular moment/day in the operation. You will be
        where you need to be at the end.

        > We all receive the satanic visitation in different forms that are
        > actually personally suited to our own particular neuroses. I'm
        > inclined to think that in the process of summoning our personal angel
        > and agathodaemon, we can't help but attract the equal and opposite
        > force of our personal cacodemon. The demons are actually at work
        > throughout the operation, but they seem to make their biggest
        > appearances at the beginning and at the end. Abraham emphasizes that
        > among all kinds of objections, they particularly try to dispute with
        > us on matters of religion and spirituality. I found this to be very,
        > VERY true! Dee and Kelly were confronted by a glamourous man in their
        > scrying, who tried to convince them that everything they had
        > channeled was false. Meeting my own adversary was like finding my
        > doppelganger from another universe and seeing what could have occured
        > and who I would have become had I embraced a different path. I found
        > reason to be powerless against him, and in the end I had to rely on
        > faith and the intuitions of my heart.

        During my Abramelin working I was convinced that there is no anti-HGA
        or whatever one may call it. I felt that all of what was going up
        against me was me. However experiences after the Abramelin working
        have led me to beleive that perhaps there is such a being afterall.
        Interesting anyways.

        > I began to learn from that point on that all of this training is
        > really a journey beyond the sphere of Understanding - personal or
        > collective. Wisdom and the Fullness are superrational and require us
        > to go beyond the abyss of our own perceptions, reasonings, and
        > understandings. Later in my operation, when I summoned the four demon
        > emperors, Satan accused me of being completely arrogant and
        > narcissitic - doing this whole operation for nothing more than self-
        > aggrandizement and imagining myself to be pious and "spiritual" when
        > in reality I'm just egotistical. I had to really consider what he
        > said and meditate on it later with more divine perspective. The old
        > adage is true: there's always a kernal of truth to what the demons
        > tell you, but they distort things and don't have the whole story. For
        > them, everything is seen through the eyes of ego and animal instincts.
        >
        > Faith, love, and hope,
        > David

        I had the same thing, with the demons trying to discourage me, using
        several bits of logic. They laughed at my attempt with the psalms,
        and etc. However I wasn't going to give up them, after doing the
        working for 6 months straight!

        Athena
        --
        www.enochian.org
      • Athena
        After reading this post, you may be interested in some of the old posts I have done on this group. I work from a LHP perspective for a lot of things, and have
        Message 3 of 25 , Jul 10, 2008
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          After reading this post, you may be interested in some of the old posts I have done on this group.  I work from a LHP perspective for a lot of things, and have talked a little about this and the Abramelin working.  I would say whatever you do, do NOT change the working partway through.  Do not suddenly decide you are going to do something differently, but stick with your original plan.  I say this due to some of the older posts where a LHP practitioner did attempt the Abramelin working, but was switching back and forth between their approach (very bad idea in my opinion, and all too good for the ego etc. to take control).

          Athena
          --
          www.enochian.org

          On 7/10/08, haussofcompassion <JoshuaHill1@...> wrote:

          Care Frater David:

          Thanks for the post below and sharing your experience of the
          Abramelin ritual with me (us). Until just recently, Bloom's account
          of the ritual was the only one I had available. I just recently
          read Athena's on the enochian.org web site. I'm taking up this rite
          and am myself "goveling" constantly. It is simply used as a
          counterpart to my usual personality. I come from mostly a Left Hand
          Path background and my ego is more than just fully developed. My
          acts of prayer and self-enforced humility are ways to keep my ego in
          check and to remind me that this ritual isn't "all about me" but
          require the help of outside sources as well: my HGA and "God."

          The account of Bloom sounded so fantastic to me because I have yet
          to experience them. As part of the LHP, we are constantly on guard
          against the Apep Serpent, also known as the Demon called "Folly" and
          self-delusion. As such, I rarely "read" anything into my
          experiences and am bluntly and brutally honest about what I have or
          have not yet been through. But I'm not sure what's in store for me
          so I'm keeping myself open to whatever happens.

          I wonder what forms the Unredeemed Spirits will take for me when I
          finally "confront" them. I spent many years viewing them not as
          enemies, but powerful archetypes that are to be used and learned
          from.

          As for confronting the "dark" side of my self and personality, I've
          more than already been there, I've revelled in it and found it a
          source of great strength, motivation, and wisdom when utilized in a
          controlled fashion. Now I'm going to try the "opposite" side. One
          of the things I constantly guarded against was stasis and
          stagnation. Now I have moved on to another stage of my magical
          development. And I have the feeling that the Abramelin Ritual won't
          be the end of it, either.

          Again, thanks for your post. Until I got to this forum, I wasn't
          sure if I was the only one who went through this stuff recently and
          if there was even any real chance of success. Now I am further
          encouraged and I hope that I complete the rite and achieve its goals.

          In L.V.X.,

          Frater Hauss

          --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "David Stolowitz" <optimystic@...>
          wrote:


          >
          > Glad to see the list is getting active again :)
          >
          > I ordered Bloom's book with a lot of excitement and anticipation
          and
          > ended up really dissapointed wtih it. It should have been
          > entitled "On the groveling of a worm", because that's exactly what
          he
          > ends up doing for most of it. You find a little bit of insight
          here
          > and there, but for a diary his notes are remarkably useless and
          > unillustrative. Plus he throws around a lot of obscure and
          > unnecessary material from Ascension spirituality that you can't
          > understand really unless you're familiar with Alice Bailey and
          such.
          >
          > You can do the rite in 6 months, but it seems to me to be more
          forced
          > and squeezed, and perhaps harder on the candidate. With the longer
          > time you have a chance for things to grow more naturally, and
          you'll
          > also learn more along the way so that things are easier and you've
          > got a better foundation for jumping off from once you've completed
          it.
          >
          > In my opinion, Bloom's experiences were not really that fantastic.
          I
          > think that a lot of times he was reading between the lines and
          > projecting import and meaning where there was none. It sounds like
          it
          > would have been really difficult to be his wife (or was it
          partner?)
          > at the time. Nonetheless, this doesn't really surprise me, because
          to
          > a degree, you have to get very self-involved with an operation
          like
          > this. When you're doing Abramelin, you can become very obsessed
          wtih
          > meaning and the whole world and everything in it can take on
          symbolic
          > significance that has no real relevance outside yourself and your
          > operation. The ego gets very, very paranoid, and satisfies its
          urges
          > through both self-aggrandizement and self-debasement. Control of
          > attitude and thoughts is still better than no control to our
          > ingrained personalities. Being put in perspective can be
          terrifying.
          >
          > Don't judge your own experience in contrast to those of others,
          > especially with an operation of such a personal character. The
          > special effects are not important compared to the personal changes
          > you undergo from within. First seek the Kingdom of God, and the
          signs
          > will follow.
          >
          > We all receive the satanic visitation in different forms that are
          > actually personally suited to our own particular neuroses. I'm
          > inclined to think that in the process of summoning our personal
          angel
          > and agathodaemon, we can't help but attract the equal and opposite
          > force of our personal cacodemon. The demons are actually at work
          > throughout the operation, but they seem to make their biggest
          > appearances at the beginning and at the end. Abraham emphasizes
          that
          > among all kinds of objections, they particularly try to dispute
          with
          > us on matters of religion and spirituality. I found this to be
          very,
          > VERY true! Dee and Kelly were confronted by a glamourous man in
          their
          > scrying, who tried to convince them that everything they had
          > channeled was false. Meeting my own adversary was like finding my
          > doppelganger from another universe and seeing what could have
          occured
          > and who I would have become had I embraced a different path. I
          found
          > reason to be powerless against him, and in the end I had to rely
          on
          > faith and the intuitions of my heart.
          >
          > I began to learn from that point on that all of this training is
          > really a journey beyond the sphere of Understanding - personal or
          > collective. Wisdom and the Fullness are superrational and require
          us
          > to go beyond the abyss of our own perceptions, reasonings, and
          > understandings. Later in my operation, when I summoned the four
          demon
          > emperors, Satan accused me of being completely arrogant and
          > narcissitic - doing this whole operation for nothing more than
          self-
          > aggrandizement and imagining myself to be pious and "spiritual"
          when
          > in reality I'm just egotistical. I had to really consider what he
          > said and meditate on it later with more divine perspective. The
          old
          > adage is true: there's always a kernal of truth to what the demons
          > tell you, but they distort things and don't have the whole story.
          For
          > them, everything is seen through the eyes of ego and animal
          instincts.
          >
          > Faith, love, and hope,
          > David
          >




          --
          Odo cicle qaa
          --
          www.enochian.org
        • Athena
          ... Makes sense about the self extracting aspect of the working. I found that during mine it was important to not bring any external systems into the
          Message 4 of 25 , Jul 10, 2008
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            On 7/9/08, templumkat <marcus@...> wrote:

            > I can only comment from those and my own working, which was several
            > years ago (there are a couple of photos on this group from that
            > working). My experience and conclusions - which have grown since -
            > would lead me to suggest that the Abramelin is a "self-extracting
            > program" which unzips itself into whatever operating system (i.e.
            > culture, time/space, personality) provided to it. Therefore it will
            > be a unique experience each time, albeit with an identical result
            > where performed appropriately and - to be brutally frank - where the
            > Angel concurs with its involvement.

            Makes sense about the self extracting aspect of the working. I found
            that during mine it was important to not bring any external systems
            into the operation. I even stopped doing Enochian magic during that
            time. Perhaps this was specific to myself though and not relevent to
            others.

            > The Goetia is not a remotely similar 'grimoire', I'd have to say. The
            > Abramelin is specifically designed to test the operator working
            > backwards from the result, i.e. knowledge and conversation of the
            > Holy Guardian Angel. It will therefore also depend on where you are
            > at the commencement of the working. In my case, I only attempted it,
            > as written, leaving a full-time career, etc., after thirty years of
            > magickal work in the initiatory system. Another attempted it from a
            > background in theosophy, and their experience was also somewhat
            > different from mine other than the result.

            You had been at magic far longer when you did your working then when I
            had when I did my working... but I'm wondering if you experienced the
            same affect of seeing the Abramelin operation as having more to it
            then a lot of the previous years experience? There is a lot to be
            learned over the years of working magic, but it's as if the Abramelin
            working just gives all that much more of experience, knowlege,
            connection and learning.

            > Any expectations you have will be confounded. The Abramelin is an act
            > of faith. If you fail, it should be of sufficient impact to ensure
            > that your mental health could only then be maintained by renouncing
            > all forms of magick as a waste of your valuable time on this planet.
            > If you suceed, then the reward is truly unlike any other magickal act
            > or mystical experience, and is of life-changing impact.

            I have seen mentions of not being able to finish by a few magicians,
            but I think in each case, they did stay on the magical path
            afterwards. I am assuming that you beleive a second attempt is just
            out of the question?

            Athena
            --
            www.enochian.org
          • Athena
            ... Makes sense about the self extracting aspect of the working. I found that during mine it was important to not bring any external systems into the
            Message 5 of 25 , Jul 11, 2008
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              On 7/9/08, templumkat <marcus@...> wrote:

              >  I can only comment from those and my own working, which was several
              >  years ago (there are a couple of photos on this group from that
              >  working). My experience and conclusions - which have grown since -
              >  would lead me to suggest that the Abramelin is a "self-extracting
              >  program" which unzips itself into whatever operating system (i.e.
              >  culture, time/space, personality) provided to it. Therefore it will
              >  be a unique experience each time, albeit with an identical result
              >  where performed appropriately and - to be brutally frank - where the
              >  Angel concurs with its involvement.

              Makes sense about the self extracting aspect of the working.  I found that during mine it was important to not bring any external systems into the operation.  I even stopped doing Enochian magic during that time.  Perhaps this was specific to myself though and not relevent to others.
               
              >  The Goetia is not a remotely similar 'grimoire', I'd have to say. The
              >  Abramelin is specifically designed to test the operator working
              >  backwards from the result, i.e. knowledge and conversation of the
              >  Holy Guardian Angel. It will therefore also depend on where you are
              >  at the commencement of the working. In my case, I only attempted it,
              >  as written, leaving a full-time career, etc., after thirty years of
              >  magickal work in the initiatory system. Another attempted it from a
              >  background in theosophy, and their experience was also somewhat
              >  different from mine other than the result.

              You had been at magic far longer when you did your working then when I had when I did my working... but I'm wondering if you experienced the same affect of seeing the Abramelin operation as having more to it then a lot of the previous years experience?  There is a lot to be learned over the years of working magic, but it's as if the Abramelin working just gives all that much more of experience, knowlege, connection and learning.
               
              >  Any expectations you have will be confounded. The Abramelin is an act
              >  of faith. If you fail, it should be of sufficient impact to ensure
              >  that your mental health could only then be maintained by renouncing
              >  all forms of magick as a waste of your valuable time on this planet.
              >  If you suceed, then the reward is truly unlike any other magickal act
              >  or mystical experience, and is of life-changing impact.

              I have seen mentions of not being able to finish by a few magicians, but I think in each case, they did stay on the magical path afterwards.  I am assuming that you beleive a second attempt is just out of the question?

              Athena
              --
              www.enochian.org
            • MARCUS KATZ
              Hello Athena, All Perhaps when the Abramelin is performed it is sufficiently well-designed to work as an entirely pure method, with its own sense of structure,
              Message 6 of 25 , Jul 11, 2008
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                Hello Athena, All
                 
                Perhaps when the Abramelin is performed it is sufficiently well-designed to work as an entirely pure method, with its own sense of structure, rhythm and result. Any modification - particularly, as you say, half-way through - is likely then to have the effect of polluting the ritual and negating the intended result. This was my experience.
                 
                It's also like saying, "so, you tell me this vehicle will take me to Paris, and you tell me you know everything about Paris, Vehicles and Travel. I have never been to Paris, never driven this sort of Vehicle, and Travel is an entirely new experience for me. Now, before I start, I'd like to make my own changes to the Map, the Car, and by the way, I think it'll be better if I go via Iraq." Well, it may work out, and for some, via Iraq may indeed be a "better" way, but the test is simply whether we meet in Paris or not in six months. There is only one Paris, it has the same landmarks for everyone who arrives, and although we may all stay in slightly different places, and have slightly different travel stories, our experience of the Arc d'Triomphe will be much the same. If someone tells me they got to Paris and it was a place of torn apart by conflict, heat, oil and dust, I'll draw my own conclusions.
                 
                In the sense of making a second attempt, I'd extend that analogy, which is not (like any metaphor, and particularly here) complete nor entirely accurate. That is to say, if you have planned a six-month journey, to a place that everyone tells you exists, is fundamental to your geography of the world - let's say "the entire continent of Europe" and you require heavy sponsorship and support, and then you set off ... rowing like crazy (the vehicle is a rowing boat) and six months later, you are still at sea, what happens? You could continue ... but then, these people that told you about Europe were wrong, because you have followed the map to the letter? So they are probably also wrong about Europe itself. You woudn't have the energy to row knowing you'd been lied to. Safer to return home. Or, you could return the way you came - and if you're lucky, because you will have become so exhausted rowing it'll take a couple of years to recover just from that - find another life like you had before, and start saving up to make the attempt again? Well, again, possible, but I suspect the knowledge of the fruitless journey will weigh so heavy that the new life will always seem better, and the effort to move out again so much harder.
                 
                And you really couldn't pretend you'd been to Europe, just to keep your world-view intact. Well, I guess you could, it'd be a massive strain on your life, and you'd better avoid meeting anyone who has actually been there, because that would simply destroy you on all sorts of levels.
                 
                As to, how do you know if you have got to Europe, or specifically, Paris? That's always, I think, a question obviously by people who haven't been there yet. Similarly, the question, what's it like? When you've been to Paris, quite often the question is simply "where next?" Particularly if Paris turns out to be a person, not a place, and when you meet her, everything you've just read and been told about Paris makes more sense - that it was never really just a "place", and that's the secret. It's a place where you meet someone. You're either then in relationship with Her or you still talk about Paris as a city where you saw the Arc d'Triomphe alone, not in the arms of the Lover you met there.
                 
                I think also, in the case of success or failure, the magical path cannot then be worked for a while as the implication of the result, and its integration into any life, takes several years. There's also, hinted at by Aaron Leitch and a couple of others, and as I found, a 'hiatus' that immediately follows the working which can be several months to a couple of years. This is like the "Black Monday/Tuesday" that follows the highest weekend experience of Ecstasy - when you come down, you crash for a while. On returning to esoteric work, I believe one is more likely to take a "mystical" path, and perceive previous occult work as a foundation and template in which the new work is performed, but for very different reasons and result. That will be informed by the Angel and your relationship to Him.
                 
                In the Great Work
                 
                Frater F.P.
                Learn to Live a Magickal Life!
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Athena
                Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:00 AM
                Subject: Re: [abramelin] Re: Bloom's "Sacred Magician"

                On 7/9/08, templumkat <marcus@katz- online.co. uk> wrote:

                >  I can only comment from those and my own working, which was several
                >  years ago (there are a couple of photos on this group from that
                >  working). My experience and conclusions - which have grown since -
                >  would lead me to suggest that the Abramelin is a "self-extracting
                >  program" which unzips itself into whatever operating system (i.e.
                >  culture, time/space, personality) provided to it. Therefore it will
                >  be a unique experience each time, albeit with an identical result
                >  where performed appropriately and - to be brutally frank - where the
                >  Angel concurs with its involvement.

                Makes sense about the self extracting aspect of the working.  I found that during mine it was important to not bring any external systems into the operation.  I even stopped doing Enochian magic during that time.  Perhaps this was specific to myself though and not relevent to others.
                 
                >  The Goetia is not a remotely similar 'grimoire', I'd have to say. The
                >  Abramelin is specifically designed to test the operator working
                >  backwards from the result, i.e. knowledge and conversation of the
                >  Holy Guardian Angel. It will therefore also depend on where you are
                >  at the commencement of the working. In my case, I only attempted it,
                >  as written, leaving a full-time career, etc., after thirty years of
                >  magickal work in the initiatory system. Another attempted it from a
                >  background in theosophy, and their experience was also somewhat
                >  different from mine other than the result.

                You had been at magic far longer when you did your working then when I had when I did my working... but I'm wondering if you experienced the same affect of seeing the Abramelin operation as having more to it then a lot of the previous years experience?  There is a lot to be learned over the years of working magic, but it's as if the Abramelin working just gives all that much more of experience, knowlege, connection and learning.
                 
                >  Any expectations you have will be confounded. The Abramelin is an act
                >  of faith. If you fail, it should be of sufficient impact to ensure
                >  that your mental health could only then be maintained by renouncing
                >  all forms of magick as a waste of your valuable time on this planet.
                >  If you suceed, then the reward is truly unlike any other magickal act
                >  or mystical experience, and is of life-changing impact.

                I have seen mentions of not being able to finish by a few magicians, but I think in each case, they did stay on the magical path afterwards.  I am assuming that you beleive a second attempt is just out of the question?

                Athena
                --
                www.enochian. org


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              • David Stolowitz
                Hey bro. You know, being able to help others out with what I ve learned and from my own experiences is such a blessing and gift. I m very, very grateful to be
                Message 7 of 25 , Jul 11, 2008
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                  Hey bro.

                  You know, being able to help others out with what I've learned and from my own experiences
                  is such a blessing and gift. I'm very, very grateful to be able to be in this position now. Its a
                  treat from my Beloved. The Divine is a Lover, and once you fall in love with it all the crap just
                  melts away. That's why they say that "all the scriptures are holy, but the song of songs is the
                  holy of holies". Unconditional, divine love IS the Song of Songs. I've gone into ecstasy on love
                  songs alone, and let me tell you: I'm sitting here now, singing along to the Corrs, and just
                  loving be able to be here and live a life of magic and wonder and happiness. I guess the
                  reason I want to tell you all this is because, in all likelihood, you're gonna have times in this
                  work where you feel like you're shit, everything you're doing is shit, and everything itself is
                  shit. And I just want to tell you that its not true, and that you're wonderful, and you will
                  accomplish what you set out to do. And we are all here to support you :)

                  David
                • haussofcompassion
                  Cara Soror Athena: The only real change I have done in my ritual is for picking the Sabbath day. My tradition celebrates it on a different day than the
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jul 11, 2008
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                    Cara Soror Athena:

                    The only real change I have done in my ritual is for picking the
                    Sabbath day. My tradition celebrates it on a different day than the
                    weekend which interfered with me being able to dedicate the whole
                    day to spiritual contemplation and making offerings to God. I was
                    not comfortable with this but I felt it is the most practical thing
                    to do, especially since I still have to make offerings and spend the
                    Sabbath day in religious worship even after the ritual is over.

                    I am not big on the idea of reading the Psalms of David since that
                    text has little relevance to my particular tradition. But as Frater
                    F.P. pointed out and from what I gather reading your account, you
                    both did it so I shall as well.

                    As far as confession goes, I do that daily in my ritual prayers
                    though it is starting to get very repetitive. There just isn't that
                    much I feel guilty about and mentioning the same things over and
                    over is really tiring. If it's about forgiving yourself and moving
                    on, I've done that long ago. But since it is a requirement, I do it
                    anyway.

                    I am almost into the last 3rd of this rite and I look eagerly toward
                    the end and the expected results. It should be interesting, if
                    nothing else.

                    In L.V.X.,


                    Frater Hauss

                    --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Athena <oipteaapdoce@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > After reading this post, you may be interested in some of the old
                    posts I
                    > have done on this group. I work from a LHP perspective for a lot
                    of things,
                    > and have talked a little about this and the Abramelin working. I
                    would say
                    > whatever you do, do NOT change the working partway through. Do
                    not suddenly
                    > decide you are going to do something differently, but stick with
                    your
                    > original plan. I say this due to some of the older posts where a
                    LHP
                    > practitioner did attempt the Abramelin working, but was switching
                    back and
                    > forth between their approach (very bad idea in my opinion, and all
                    too good
                    > for the ego etc. to take control).
                    >
                    > Athena
                    > --
                    > www.enochian.org
                    >
                    > On 7/10/08, haussofcompassion <JoshuaHill1@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Care Frater David:
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for the post below and sharing your experience of the
                    > > Abramelin ritual with me (us). Until just recently, Bloom's
                    account
                    > > of the ritual was the only one I had available. I just recently
                    > > read Athena's on the enochian.org web site. I'm taking up this
                    rite
                    > > and am myself "goveling" constantly. It is simply used as a
                    > > counterpart to my usual personality. I come from mostly a Left
                    Hand
                    > > Path background and my ego is more than just fully developed. My
                    > > acts of prayer and self-enforced humility are ways to keep my
                    ego in
                    > > check and to remind me that this ritual isn't "all about me" but
                    > > require the help of outside sources as well: my HGA and "God."
                    > >
                    > > The account of Bloom sounded so fantastic to me because I have
                    yet
                    > > to experience them. As part of the LHP, we are constantly on
                    guard
                    > > against the Apep Serpent, also known as the Demon called "Folly"
                    and
                    > > self-delusion. As such, I rarely "read" anything into my
                    > > experiences and am bluntly and brutally honest about what I have
                    or
                    > > have not yet been through. But I'm not sure what's in store for
                    me
                    > > so I'm keeping myself open to whatever happens.
                    > >
                    > > I wonder what forms the Unredeemed Spirits will take for me when
                    I
                    > > finally "confront" them. I spent many years viewing them not as
                    > > enemies, but powerful archetypes that are to be used and learned
                    > > from.
                    > >
                    > > As for confronting the "dark" side of my self and personality,
                    I've
                    > > more than already been there, I've revelled in it and found it a
                    > > source of great strength, motivation, and wisdom when utilized
                    in a
                    > > controlled fashion. Now I'm going to try the "opposite" side. One
                    > > of the things I constantly guarded against was stasis and
                    > > stagnation. Now I have moved on to another stage of my magical
                    > > development. And I have the feeling that the Abramelin Ritual
                    won't
                    > > be the end of it, either.
                    > >
                    > > Again, thanks for your post. Until I got to this forum, I wasn't
                    > > sure if I was the only one who went through this stuff recently
                    and
                    > > if there was even any real chance of success. Now I am further
                    > > encouraged and I hope that I complete the rite and achieve its
                    goals.
                    > >
                    > > In L.V.X.,
                    > >
                    > > Frater Hauss
                    > >
                    > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com <abramelin%
                    40yahoogroups.com>, "David
                    > > Stolowitz" <optimystic@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > >
                    > > > Glad to see the list is getting active again :)
                    > > >
                    > > > I ordered Bloom's book with a lot of excitement and
                    anticipation
                    > > and
                    > > > ended up really dissapointed wtih it. It should have been
                    > > > entitled "On the groveling of a worm", because that's exactly
                    what
                    > > he
                    > > > ends up doing for most of it. You find a little bit of insight
                    > > here
                    > > > and there, but for a diary his notes are remarkably useless and
                    > > > unillustrative. Plus he throws around a lot of obscure and
                    > > > unnecessary material from Ascension spirituality that you can't
                    > > > understand really unless you're familiar with Alice Bailey and
                    > > such.
                    > > >
                    > > > You can do the rite in 6 months, but it seems to me to be more
                    > > forced
                    > > > and squeezed, and perhaps harder on the candidate. With the
                    longer
                    > > > time you have a chance for things to grow more naturally, and
                    > > you'll
                    > > > also learn more along the way so that things are easier and
                    you've
                    > > > got a better foundation for jumping off from once you've
                    completed
                    > > it.
                    > > >
                    > > > In my opinion, Bloom's experiences were not really that
                    fantastic.
                    > > I
                    > > > think that a lot of times he was reading between the lines and
                    > > > projecting import and meaning where there was none. It sounds
                    like
                    > > it
                    > > > would have been really difficult to be his wife (or was it
                    > > partner?)
                    > > > at the time. Nonetheless, this doesn't really surprise me,
                    because
                    > > to
                    > > > a degree, you have to get very self-involved with an operation
                    > > like
                    > > > this. When you're doing Abramelin, you can become very obsessed
                    > > wtih
                    > > > meaning and the whole world and everything in it can take on
                    > > symbolic
                    > > > significance that has no real relevance outside yourself and
                    your
                    > > > operation. The ego gets very, very paranoid, and satisfies its
                    > > urges
                    > > > through both self-aggrandizement and self-debasement. Control
                    of
                    > > > attitude and thoughts is still better than no control to our
                    > > > ingrained personalities. Being put in perspective can be
                    > > terrifying.
                    > > >
                    > > > Don't judge your own experience in contrast to those of others,
                    > > > especially with an operation of such a personal character. The
                    > > > special effects are not important compared to the personal
                    changes
                    > > > you undergo from within. First seek the Kingdom of God, and the
                    > > signs
                    > > > will follow.
                    > > >
                    > > > We all receive the satanic visitation in different forms that
                    are
                    > > > actually personally suited to our own particular neuroses. I'm
                    > > > inclined to think that in the process of summoning our personal
                    > > angel
                    > > > and agathodaemon, we can't help but attract the equal and
                    opposite
                    > > > force of our personal cacodemon. The demons are actually at
                    work
                    > > > throughout the operation, but they seem to make their biggest
                    > > > appearances at the beginning and at the end. Abraham emphasizes
                    > > that
                    > > > among all kinds of objections, they particularly try to dispute
                    > > with
                    > > > us on matters of religion and spirituality. I found this to be
                    > > very,
                    > > > VERY true! Dee and Kelly were confronted by a glamourous man in
                    > > their
                    > > > scrying, who tried to convince them that everything they had
                    > > > channeled was false. Meeting my own adversary was like finding
                    my
                    > > > doppelganger from another universe and seeing what could have
                    > > occured
                    > > > and who I would have become had I embraced a different path. I
                    > > found
                    > > > reason to be powerless against him, and in the end I had to
                    rely
                    > > on
                    > > > faith and the intuitions of my heart.
                    > > >
                    > > > I began to learn from that point on that all of this training
                    is
                    > > > really a journey beyond the sphere of Understanding - personal
                    or
                    > > > collective. Wisdom and the Fullness are superrational and
                    require
                    > > us
                    > > > to go beyond the abyss of our own perceptions, reasonings, and
                    > > > understandings. Later in my operation, when I summoned the four
                    > > demon
                    > > > emperors, Satan accused me of being completely arrogant and
                    > > > narcissitic - doing this whole operation for nothing more than
                    > > self-
                    > > > aggrandizement and imagining myself to be pious and "spiritual"
                    > > when
                    > > > in reality I'm just egotistical. I had to really consider what
                    he
                    > > > said and meditate on it later with more divine perspective. The
                    > > old
                    > > > adage is true: there's always a kernal of truth to what the
                    demons
                    > > > tell you, but they distort things and don't have the whole
                    story.
                    > > For
                    > > > them, everything is seen through the eyes of ego and animal
                    > > instincts.
                    > > >
                    > > > Faith, love, and hope,
                    > > > David
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Odo cicle qaa
                    > --
                    > www.enochian.org
                    >
                  • haussofcompassion
                    Hello Frater David: Thanks for the support! There have been plenty of times throughout this whole rite where I questioned whether it is even real let alone
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jul 11, 2008
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                      Hello Frater David:

                      Thanks for the support! There have been plenty of times throughout
                      this whole rite where I questioned whether it is even real let alone
                      worth it. And as far as feeling like s**t, I've already been there.

                      Toward the beginning of this rite, my mother suffered a stroke. She
                      lives in Georgia and I stay in California. As the oldest son,
                      especially coming from an Asian family (mom's side), I should have
                      been there for her. Luckily, it wasn't fatal, but she lost some of
                      her control over her left side. Right now, she is staying with my
                      sister instead of me. I felt great shame and anger at myself that I
                      am not the one taking care of her right now and letting my sister
                      shoulder most of the burden. I help out financially but not nearly
                      as much as I should since I gave up my full time job to perform this
                      thing.

                      When I chose this rite, I had no idea how much I would be giving up
                      or what the rest of it will cost me. But it is only for 6 months
                      and the benefits are supposed to last me the rest of my life. I
                      have put my life on hold during this time and I now have much to
                      make up for. But listening to you, it reminds me that it may all be
                      worth it.

                      In L.V.X.,


                      Frater Hauss

                      --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "David Stolowitz" <optimystic@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Hey bro.
                      >
                      > You know, being able to help others out with what I've learned and
                      from my own experiences
                      > is such a blessing and gift. I'm very, very grateful to be able to
                      be in this position now. Its a
                      > treat from my Beloved. The Divine is a Lover, and once you fall in
                      love with it all the crap just
                      > melts away. That's why they say that "all the scriptures are holy,
                      but the song of songs is the
                      > holy of holies". Unconditional, divine love IS the Song of Songs.
                      I've gone into ecstasy on love
                      > songs alone, and let me tell you: I'm sitting here now, singing
                      along to the Corrs, and just
                      > loving be able to be here and live a life of magic and wonder and
                      happiness. I guess the
                      > reason I want to tell you all this is because, in all likelihood,
                      you're gonna have times in this
                      > work where you feel like you're shit, everything you're doing is
                      shit, and everything itself is
                      > shit. And I just want to tell you that its not true, and that
                      you're wonderful, and you will
                      > accomplish what you set out to do. And we are all here to support
                      you :)
                      >
                      > David
                      >
                    • haussofcompassion
                      I saw this article on MSN on the psychoactive effects of frankincense, a popular incense used in many religous traditions at:
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jul 11, 2008
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                        I saw this article on MSN on the psychoactive effects of
                        frankincense, a popular incense used in many religous traditions at:

                        http://health.msn.com/health-topics/depression/articlepage.aspx?cp-
                        documentid=100205390>1=31035

                        So I wondered what is the importance of using proper incense for the
                        Abramelin ritual. During one of my earlier searches for Abramelin
                        incense, I came across the Jewish Qetoret (also spelled "Ketoret").
                        The ingredients will be familiar to all of us here since we already
                        know about the Abramelin incense. What I didn't know was the great
                        religious and spiritual significance the incense has. You can read
                        yourself about it at:

                        http://www.jewishmag.com/11MAG/MYSTIC/mystic.htm

                        The incense is known to cure plagues, dispel insects, even stop
                        death itself. And the penalty for not using the CORRECT mixture of
                        incense has been death! There is even a biblical mention of God
                        Himself killing people who were about to offer the wrong incense.

                        For those of us burning incense as part of our regular offerings to
                        the Most High, I thought this article above would be of great
                        interest. It was also one of the reasons why I was willing to
                        substitute Qetoret for the Abramelin recipe given in the grimoire.

                        In L.V.X.,


                        Frater Hauss
                      • obinna.w@uclnig.com
                        ... I have been studing the Abramelin system for 3 years now and my desire to practice it has increase the more.But the problem i have been having is geting a
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jul 15, 2008
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                          >Greetings all,
                          I have been studing the Abramelin system for 3 years now and my desire to
                          practice it has increase the more.But the problem i have been having is
                          geting a small child that will act as my clairvoyant.
                          Y queation is, can the use of the small child be avarted.Secondly,can any
                          other wand be used apart from the Almond wand.
                          I will be very happy if some body out there more experience thn i am can
                          help me out.
                          In Peace Profound,
                          FR.O.WOGU
                        • haussofcompassion
                          Care FR.O.WOGU: I am about to start the last third of the Abrameli ritual myself. I read the account of Athena she posted on enochian.org and she wrote that
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jul 17, 2008
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                            Care FR.O.WOGU:

                            I am about to start the last third of the Abrameli ritual myself. I
                            read the account of Athena she posted on enochian.org and she wrote
                            that she succeeded with using a substitute wood. She is also on
                            this forum and will probably be a great help to you.

                            I have been lookin for almond trees myself and I went on google and
                            used the search term "tree farms" to see if anyone can spare a
                            branch or two. I found many calling themselves "tree nurseries" but
                            the ones I talked to so far are only selling small almond trees, not
                            just a branch off a bigger one. I'm still looking but at least ONE
                            of them has got to have it. California does have lots of amond
                            trees, for crying out loud. I just have to look harder.

                            I also intend to mail one of the branches to another on this forum
                            who said he is looking for a branch. I went to UPS already and saw
                            a 3 1/2 foot tube you can use to send stuff and the lady behind the
                            counter told me I don't need any special permit or paperwork to send
                            a branch, even if it is organic.

                            Soon starts the fun part, the last third of the ritual, then the
                            final week of evocations. Wow, this ritual went by a lot faster
                            than I expected. I hope that all of us trying it on this forum get
                            what we worked and prayed so much for.

                            In the Great Work,


                            Frater Hauss

                            --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, obinna.w@... wrote:
                            >
                            > >Greetings all,
                            > I have been studing the Abramelin system for 3 years now and my
                            desire to
                            > practice it has increase the more.But the problem i have been
                            having is
                            > geting a small child that will act as my clairvoyant.
                            > Y queation is, can the use of the small child be
                            avarted.Secondly,can any
                            > other wand be used apart from the Almond wand.
                            > I will be very happy if some body out there more experience thn i
                            am can
                            > help me out.
                            > In Peace Profound,
                            > FR.O.WOGU
                            >
                          • obinna.w@uclnig.com
                            ... Greetings, Fr.Hauss thanks for your reply and encouragement.I never knew people will still be intrested in carrying out such a difficult magical
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jul 18, 2008
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                              >
                              Greetings,
                              Fr.Hauss thanks for your reply and encouragement.I never knew people will
                              still be intrested in carrying out such a difficult magical operation.How
                              i wish Athena can help me solve the problem of using a child as a
                              clairvoyant becouse in this present day society people are always
                              skeptical about what one does.
                              PEACE,
                              Fr O.WOGU
                            • Khem Caigan
                              ... ... Hi, Hauss ~ If you look through Agrippa and the various grimoires, such as the *Key of Solomon*, or even in Culpepper, you will find that
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jul 18, 2008
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                                Hauss doth schreibble :
                                >
                                <SNIPS>
                                > I have been looking for almond trees myself and I went on Google and
                                > used the search term "tree farms" to see if anyone can spare a
                                > branch or two. I found many calling themselves "tree nurseries" but
                                > the ones I talked to so far are only selling small almond trees, not
                                > just a branch off a bigger one. I'm still looking but at least ONE
                                > of them has got to have it. California does have lots of almond
                                > trees, for crying out loud. I just have to look harder.

                                Hi, Hauss ~


                                If you look through Agrippa and the various grimoires,
                                such as the *Key of Solomon*, or even in Culpepper, you
                                will find that nearly any nut wood will do for your wand,
                                as they all possess the necessary correspondence and
                                sympathy with Jupiter/Jove/Jahveh.

                                Here is a link to an essay by Joseph Peterson on the
                                subject :

                                The Magic Wand
                                http://tinyurl.com/6eebfm

                                And here are some links to a few related essays :

                                The Rod of Aaron, Staff of Moses :
                                Jewish Wondrous Wands
                                http://tinyurl.com/5cewzy

                                The Staff of Moses
                                http://tinyurl.com/6p6vzs

                                Cors in Manu Domine,


                                ~ Khem Caigan
                                <Khem@...>

                                "Heat and Moisture are Active to Generation;
                                Cold and Dryness are Passive, in and to each thing;
                                Fire and Air, Active by Elementation;
                                Water and Earth, Passive to Generation."

                                'Of the Division of Chaos'
                                -Dr. Simon Forman
                              • Khem Caigan
                                ... Hi, Hauss ~ Here are a few related links that you might find interesting : Incensole acetate: a novel neuroprotective agent isolated from Boswellia
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jul 18, 2008
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                                  Hauss doth schreibble :
                                  >
                                  > I saw this article on MSN on the psychoactive effects of
                                  > frankincense, a popular incense used in many religious traditions at:
                                  >
                                  > http://tinyurl.com/6xeh76
                                  <SNIPS>

                                  Hi, Hauss ~


                                  Here are a few related links that you might find
                                  interesting :

                                  Incensole acetate: a novel neuroprotective agent
                                  isolated from Boswellia carterii.

                                  Moussaieff A, Shein NA, Tsenter J, Grigoriadis S,
                                  Simeonidou C, Alexandrovich AG, Trembovler V,
                                  Ben-Neriah Y, Schmitz ML, Fiebich BL, Munoz E,
                                  Mechoulam R, Shohami E.

                                  [1] Department of Medicinal Chemistry and Natural
                                  Products, Medical Faculty, Hebrew University,
                                  Jerusalem, Israel
                                  [2] Department of Pharmacology, School of Pharmacy,
                                  Hebrew University, Jerusalem, Israel.

                                  Boswellia resin has been used as a major anti-inflammatory
                                  agent and for the healing of wounds for centuries.

                                  Incensole acetate (IA), isolated from this resin, was shown
                                  to inhibit the activation of nuclear factor-kappaB, a key
                                  transcription factor in the inflammatory response.

                                  We now show that IA inhibits the production of inflammatory
                                  mediators in an in vitro model system of C6 glioma and human
                                  peripheral monocytes.

                                  Given the involvement of postinjury inflammation in the
                                  pathophysiology and outcome of traumatic brain injury, we
                                  examined the effect of IA on the inflammatory process and
                                  on the recovery of neurobehavioral and cognitive functions
                                  in a mouse model of closed head injury (CHI).

                                  In the brains of post-CHI mice, IA reduced glial activation,
                                  inhibited the expression of interleukin-1beta, and tumor
                                  necrosis factor-alpha mRNAs, and induced cell death in
                                  macrophages at the area of trauma.

                                  A mild hypothermic effect was also noted.

                                  Subsequently, IA inhibited hippocampal neurodegeneration
                                  and exerted a beneficial effect on functional outcome
                                  after CHI, indicated by reduced neurological severity
                                  scores and improved cognitive ability in an object
                                  recognition test.

                                  This study attributes the anti-inflammatory activity of
                                  Boswellia resin to IA and related cembranoid diterpenes
                                  and suggests that they may serve as novel neuroprotective
                                  agents.

                                  ~ from :
                                  Journal of Cerebral Blood Flow & Metabolism
                                  advance online publication, 16 April 2008;
                                  doi:10.1038/jcbfm.2008.28.
                                  PubMed
                                  http://tinyurl.com/3s7tef

                                  Incensole acetate, a novel anti-inflammatory compound
                                  isolated from Boswellia resin, inhibits nuclear
                                  factor-kappa B activation.
                                  http://tinyurl.com/4kg9mp

                                  " The resin of Boswellia species, particularly of Boswellia
                                  carteri (Burseraceae), known as frankincense or olibanum (in
                                  Greek) or lebona (in Hebrew), is a major component of Middle
                                  Eastern and European incense, and apparently has been used
                                  in worship since ancient times, it was a major product of
                                  commerce - frankincense was grown in the southern part
                                  of Arabia and in East Africa and camel caravans brought it
                                  north to Egypt and the Middle East.

                                  There are scattered indications that it may have sedative
                                  properties.

                                  In the Middle East during the first centuries A.D. it was
                                  administered in wine to prisoners sentenced to death, to
                                  'take away' or to 'confuse' their minds.

                                  In Abyssinia, where Boswellia trees are common, it is
                                  believed to have a tranquilizing effect and to "relieve
                                  people from evil spirits”.

                                  We found that incensole acetate, a component of Boswellia,
                                  is active in mice in a tetrad of assays commonly used to
                                  evaluate cannabinoid activity.

                                  These, and additional data in mice indicate that incensole
                                  acetate causes pharmacological activities reminiscent of
                                  those produced by THC and by anandamide, the endogenous
                                  cannabinoid, but its activity is somewhat lower.

                                  However, as it does not bind to the CB1 cannabinoid
                                  receptor, its activity is obviously not via this particular
                                  mechanism.

                                  On the basis of the content of active material in the resin
                                  and the level of activity, compared to THC, we assume that
                                  its effect on users would be considerably lower than
                                  that of marijuana or hashish. "

                                  ~ from :

                                  *The importance of being a sceptic* .PDF
                                  http://tinyurl.com/496bt5

                                  Moussaieff, A., and Bregman, T.
                                  Incensole Acetate: A Psycho-Active Compound Derived from
                                  Frankincense, with a Partial Cannabimimetic Profile

                                  15th Annual Symposium On The Cannabinoids
                                  2005 Program ~ .PDF
                                  http://tinyurl.com/4uxsoa

                                  --==o0o==--

                                  Back in the 60s, Andrija Puharich and Harry Smith did
                                  some extensive testing on the psychoactive effects of
                                  resins used for incense that contained terpenes,
                                  diterpenes, sesquiterpenes, &tc.

                                  This work grew out of their own personal interest in
                                  the various incense formulations to be found in old
                                  grimoires.

                                  I don't know what Andrija used for his tests, but Harry
                                  described for me a bong-like hotplate/thermocouple/fan
                                  contraption that he built for his work.

                                  As you might imagine, this sort of behavior didn't do much
                                  to endear him to Ruth and Arthur Young, whose hospitality
                                  he was enjoying at the time.

                                  More recently, Christian Ratsch has discussed the
                                  potentiating effects of such resins when used with other
                                  known psychoactive substances, such as cannabis.

                                  > So I wondered what is the importance of using proper incense for the
                                  > Abramelin ritual. During one of my earlier searches for Abramelin
                                  > incense, I came across the Jewish Qetoret (also spelled "Ketoret").
                                  > The ingredients will be familiar to all of us here since we already
                                  > know about the Abramelin incense. What I didn't know was the great
                                  > religious and spiritual significance the incense has.
                                  <SNIPS>

                                  As I have mentioned here and elsewhere, the procedures
                                  in the *Mystical Kabbalah* of Abraham Elim are drawn from
                                  the book of *Exodus* in the *Torah*, and so it should come
                                  as no surprise to discover that the incense formulation is
                                  based on the receipt in *Exodus*, as well.

                                  Here are some links to a couple of my old posts here with
                                  regard to the formulation of the Incense and the Anointing Oil:

                                  Anointing Oil & Kaneh Bosem
                                  Message #245 of 534
                                  http://tinyurl.com/5pd4pa

                                  Anointing Oil:
                                  EARLY DIFFUSION AND FOLK USES OF HEMP
                                  Message #246 of 534
                                  http://tinyurl.com/66ebfu

                                  Cors in Manu Domine,


                                  ~ Khem Caigan
                                  <Khem@...>

                                  "Heat and Moisture are Active to Generation;
                                  Cold and Dryness are Passive, in and to each thing;
                                  Fire and Air, Active by Elementation;
                                  Water and Earth, Passive to Generation."

                                  'Of the Division of Chaos'
                                  -Dr. Simon Forman
                                • haussofcompassion
                                  The accounts of others who said they succeeded do not always mention that they used a child seer. In William Bloom s book, The Sacred Magician, his diary of
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jul 19, 2008
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                                    The accounts of others who said they succeeded do not always mention
                                    that they used a child seer. In William Bloom's book, "The Sacred
                                    Magician," his diary of his performance of the Abramelin Ritual, he
                                    said he did not use one and that a child wasn't absolutely needed if
                                    you did the rest of the ritual (mostly) right. I myself do not plan
                                    on using a child. And I don't think you have to worry about it being
                                    a necessity for you, either.

                                    But whatever you do, good luck on your journey and I hope we both get
                                    what we're working for.

                                    Peace Profound,


                                    Frater Hauss

                                    --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, obinna.w@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > Greetings,
                                    > Fr.Hauss thanks for your reply and encouragement.I never knew
                                    people will
                                    > still be intrested in carrying out such a difficult magical
                                    operation.How
                                    > i wish Athena can help me solve the problem of using a child as a
                                    > clairvoyant becouse in this present day society people are always
                                    > skeptical about what one does.
                                    > PEACE,
                                    > Fr O.WOGU
                                    >
                                  • obinna.w@uclnig.com
                                    ... Greetings, Thanks Fr.Hauss But when the HGA appears, how whould one who is not using a child know in case he is not a clairvoyant. Shine in the eternal
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jul 23, 2008
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                                      >
                                      Greetings,
                                      Thanks Fr.Hauss
                                      But when the HGA appears, how whould one who is not using a child know in
                                      case he is not a clairvoyant.
                                      Shine in the eternal light of the cosmic wisdom.
                                      Fr.Wogu.
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