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Re: [abramelin] Abraham of Wurms, the Devil, and the 'Fear of God'

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  • Nightshade BelladonaAtropina
    ... Glad to see you posting, and a long overdo welcome to the list as well :). ... Now that is one hell of a good idea :). I ll bet you have had many many
    Message 1 of 9 , May 22, 2007
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      On 5/22/07, Joseph David <optimystic@...> wrote:

      > Hello everyone. I apologize that I have not been involved with this
      > group for sometime; certainly you guys have been (for the most part)
      > helpful and supportive in the past.

      Glad to see you posting, and a long overdo welcome to the list as well :).

      > In preparation for my own operation, I have been hand-copying the
      > four books from Dehn's recently released translation from the German.
      > Doing so has been quite a heavy experience, both in the patience and
      > persistence required to get through such a time-intensive project and
      > the intimacy with the text and the author it forces you into. Which
      > brings me to my question(s).

      Now that is one hell of a good idea :). I'll bet you have had many
      many insights from doing this! Well insights and a cramped hand *g*.

      > Abraham founds and presents his work upon the cosmology of dualistic
      > world in which people are obligated to discern between the works of
      > the sole creator God YHWH Adonai Tzavaot', zealous and vengeful, and
      > the infinitely complex and cunning deceptions of the demonic forces,
      > variously protrayed as singular and multiple. To fail to discern and
      > act correctly is to fall into "ruin of body and souL" as Abraham puts
      > it. His work goes to painstaking lengths to cast all other magic as
      > demonically inspired and damning.

      Well I did find that during the Abramelin working, it was best to not
      work with other entities accept one God, and to not do any magics. (I
      do however think the magics in the German version would be just fine
      though). All other work tends to detract and lead one away from the
      goal/working in my opinion.

      There is also the section about if a Pagan wishes to do the operation.
      Well I was never raised Christian or Jeudo Christian, so I went for a
      different Deity concept :). Abraham is outlining his experience and
      beleifs I beleive, but also stating that one should follow it with
      their own religion. Such comments as following the religion you were
      raised with.. and so on show that there is more flexibility to the
      system then just one Deity named YHVH. I was also taught to overcome
      my odd fascination with good/evil and other opposites during the
      operation as (obviously) God is everything, not just some things.

      > Abraham also paints a picture of God full of Old Testament wrath;
      > whose compassion is always a mercy, and whose wrath is an ultimately
      > real and dangerous force that can be all too easily invoked. Abraham
      > stresses that in order for everything to go right with the operations
      > and the magic, the "fear of God" must be paramount - pre and post
      > operation.

      I once read some author state that demons are easy to call, angels are
      easy to call, but to actually look into the face of God is the most
      difficult thing one will ever do (heavily paraphrased). I think there
      are many reasons for this, some of them having to do with the baggage
      we carry (hence the confessions bit). Now that whole having to have
      fear of God thing I never did understand. I even asked about it on
      this list during my operation. I also asked about some of the nasty
      bigoted stuff in the psalms LOL. But anyways, since fearing God just
      wasn't a concept that worked for me, I went with the definition of
      awe, surrender and so on.

      > What do you guys make of all this? Is this synonomous or at odds with
      > the experience of your Angel? Why is the text written with this
      > emphasis?
      >
      > J.D.

      I make it that every person has their biases, even those of use who
      have completed the operation, and even those who wrote up the
      operation years ago. It just happens that way. However, I find that
      how you go into the operation is COMPLETELY irrelevant to how you come
      out of it. Now you might come out with the say beleifs and concepts,
      but then again, you might come out with completely different ones, or
      a bit of both. The bit of both in my case. You do definatly learn
      and experience a lot during the working, and to say that it changes
      you would be an enourmous understatement. The operation itself brings
      the magician along to where they need to be, it seems to have that
      built into it. I would say it is definatly a living system that drags
      you kicking and screaming if need be to the end (well as long as you
      keep up the required daily work that is). I would just say ask your
      HGA about how to work with what the author states for the operation...
      but well... soon enough :).

      I hope all this made some sense from your perspective. I have had
      many say a Pagan cannot do Abramelin, well from personal experience
      and readng the paragraph or 2 on how a Pagan would do it...I would say
      they just don't know any better. OK so these opinions won't make me
      popular, but I have also seen so many not start the operation due to
      them thinking that they cannot do it unless they are Christian or
      Jeudo Christian (or at least a ceremonial magickian).

      Athena
      --
      www.enochian.org
    • David Stolowitz
      I ve really come a long way since I wrote this thread. Everyone who is hesitating about whether or not to do the operation - DO IT! It will really transform
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 29, 2009
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        I've really come a long way since I wrote this thread. Everyone who is hesitating about whether or not to do the operation - DO IT! It will really transform you and your life. It is so worth the effort and I'm sure that ten years down the line the time will not have seemed like such a big thing. I am really thankful for this list and for Athena and Georg and Steven and everyone else that has been helping to bring back magic into the world. It really makes a big difference and changes peoples lives. Its an honor to work with all of you. Lots of love!

        David
      • detta_ven
        Thanks for the encouragement David. :) I m currently making preparations (to start next Easter), and every now and again the enormity of the task dawns on me,
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 14, 2009
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          Thanks for the encouragement David. :)
          I'm currently making preparations (to start next Easter), and every now and again the enormity of the task dawns on me, 'Are you sure you want to do this?' Posts like yours are so reassuring.
          Thanks again!
          -detta

          --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "David Stolowitz" <david@...> wrote:
          >
          > I've really come a long way since I wrote this thread. Everyone who is hesitating about whether or not to do the operation - DO IT! It will really transform you and your life. It is so worth the effort and I'm sure that ten years down the line the time will not have seemed like such a big thing. I am really thankful for this list and for Athena and Georg and Steven and everyone else that has been helping to bring back magic into the world. It really makes a big difference and changes peoples lives. Its an honor to work with all of you. Lots of love!
          >
          > David
          >
        • Athena
          Oh it is definitely more then worth it! I would say I learned/gained more in that six months then I did in 5 or 10 years of practicing magic beforehand. If
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 14, 2009
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            Oh it is definitely more then worth it!  I would say I learned/gained more in that six months then I did in 5 or 10 years of practicing magic beforehand.  If you think about it a mere 6 or 18 months out of an entire lifetime really isn't that long, and I can't think of anything more worthwhile.  As long as you plan ahead you will be fine.

            Athena
            --
            www.enochian.org

            On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:26 AM, detta_ven <detta_ven@...> wrote:
             

            Thanks for the encouragement David. :)
            I'm currently making preparations (to start next Easter), and every now and again the enormity of the task dawns on me, 'Are you sure you want to do this?' Posts like yours are so reassuring.
            Thanks again!
            -detta


          • shivagodmind
            Hey guys. I m sure that what I am about to ask is probably in the message history but I don t want to look too long for a similar explanation hahaha... So...
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 15, 2009
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              Hey guys. I'm sure that what I am about to ask is probably in the message history but I don't want to look too long for a similar explanation hahaha...

              So... if you are a person who works an everyday job, who lives alone but still exists within a social environment (small city) do you think that the operation is still possible? Would someone have to have months of solitude to do it?

              --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Athena <oipteaapdoce@...> wrote:
              >
              > Oh it is definitely more then worth it! I would say I learned/gained more
              > in that six months then I did in 5 or 10 years of practicing magic
              > beforehand. If you think about it a mere 6 or 18 months out of an entire
              > lifetime really isn't that long, and I can't think of anything more
              > worthwhile. As long as you plan ahead you will be fine.
              >
              > Athena
              > --
              > www.enochian.org
              >
              > On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 4:26 AM, detta_ven <detta_ven@...> wrote:
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Thanks for the encouragement David. :)
              > > I'm currently making preparations (to start next Easter), and every now and
              > > again the enormity of the task dawns on me, 'Are you sure you want to do
              > > this?' Posts like yours are so reassuring.
              > > Thanks again!
              > > -detta
              > >
              >
            • Athena
              We have covered that at least 10 times, as well as quite recently. You could try search terms such as seclusion job and so forth. I also talk a lot about
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 15, 2009
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                We have covered that at least 10 times, as well as quite recently.  You could try search terms such as "seclusion" "job" and so forth.  I also talk a lot about how being around others keeps you the same, and also brings you smack right back down to their (not currently doing Abramelin) level.  I keep repeating myself, but no one listens... it is a once in a lifetime, most likely the most important magical working you will ever do. Why not go by the book?  It is like everyone wants to keep their mundane reality and perform a fancy working all at the same time.  Think about your reasoning for wanting to do the working.  Is it not worth saving up enough cash to do this properly?  Btw, I didn't reply the last time someone asked, so this reply goes for them as well :>.  Many disagree with me, but this is my opinion speaking from my own experience.  It's not like you have to be in seclusion for seven years like some of the mystics ;).

                Athena
                --
                www.enochian.org

                On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:45 AM, shivagodmind <shivagodmind@...> wrote:
                 

                Hey guys. I'm sure that what I am about to ask is probably in the message history but I don't want to look too long for a similar explanation hahaha...

                So... if you are a person who works an everyday job, who lives alone but still exists within a social environment (small city) do you think that the operation is still possible? Would someone have to have months of solitude to do it?



              • shivagodmind
                Good points, thanks
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 19, 2009
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                  Good points, thanks

                  --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Athena <oipteaapdoce@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > We have covered that at least 10 times, as well as quite recently. You
                  > could try search terms such as "seclusion" "job" and so forth. I also talk
                  > a lot about how being around others keeps you the same, and also brings you
                  > smack right back down to their (not currently doing Abramelin) level. I
                  > keep repeating myself, but no one listens... it is a once in a lifetime,
                  > most likely the most important magical working you will ever do. Why not go
                  > by the book? It is like everyone wants to keep their mundane reality and
                  > perform a fancy working all at the same time. Think about your reasoning
                  > for wanting to do the working. Is it not worth saving up enough cash to do
                  > this properly? Btw, I didn't reply the last time someone asked, so this
                  > reply goes for them as well :>. Many disagree with me, but this is my
                  > opinion speaking from my own experience. It's not like you have to be in
                  > seclusion for seven years like some of the mystics ;).
                  >
                  > Athena
                  > --
                  > www.enochian.org
                  >
                  > On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:45 AM, shivagodmind <shivagodmind@...>wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hey guys. I'm sure that what I am about to ask is probably in the message
                  > > history but I don't want to look too long for a similar explanation
                  > > hahaha...
                  > >
                  > > So... if you are a person who works an everyday job, who lives alone but
                  > > still exists within a social environment (small city) do you think that the
                  > > operation is still possible? Would someone have to have months of solitude
                  > > to do it?
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Athena
                  You re quite welcome :). I should get around to compiling a FAQ with questions answered... perhaps over the winter holidays... Athena -- www.enochian.org
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 19, 2009
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                    You're quite welcome :).  I should get around to compiling a FAQ with questions answered... perhaps over the winter holidays...

                    Athena
                    --
                    www.enochian.org

                    On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 1:10 PM, shivagodmind <shivagodmind@...> wrote:
                     

                    Good points, thanks


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