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Portal + Abramelin

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  • trisha_mm
    I was wondering whether some of you tried to combine self-initation curriculum and the Abramelin. As in the curriculum one is using the planetary influences
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 6, 2006
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      I was wondering whether some of you tried to combine self-initation
      curriculum and the Abramelin. As in the curriculum one is using the
      planetary influences and is dependant on ritual work, one has to top
      the Outer Order work by going through the Portal work. But could one
      actually combine this with the Abramelin? Or can those be done
      separately?
      If someone already said on this issue, please let me know.
      Peace,
      N.E.
    • Psyche
      By self-initiation curriculum, are you referring to the book by the Ciceros? I know by your speech here that you re referring to Golden Dawn work but beyond
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 6, 2006
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        By self-initiation curriculum, are you referring to the book by the Ciceros?

        I know by your speech here that you're referring to Golden Dawn work
        but beyond that I'm a little hazy. Could you please provide a little
        bit more information?


        Thanks and LVX,
        Psyche

        On 7/6/06, trisha_mm <trisha_mm@...> wrote:
        > I was wondering whether some of you tried to combine self-initation
        > curriculum and the Abramelin. As in the curriculum one is using the
        > planetary influences and is dependant on ritual work, one has to top
        > the Outer Order work by going through the Portal work. But could one
        > actually combine this with the Abramelin? Or can those be done
        > separately?
        > If someone already said on this issue, please let me know.
        > Peace,
        > N.E.



        --
        The Sun is its father, the moon its mother, the wind hath carried it
        in its belly, the earth its nourse.
        -Emerald Tablet of Hermes
        ~~~~~~
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Great_Work
        ~~~~~~
        "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one."
        - Marcus Aurelius
        ~~~~~~
        Email: sol.et.luna@...
        AIM: Sol et Luna 13 Yahoo!: x_sol_et_luna_x
      • Aaron
        ... Greetings! Abramelin and Portal would certainly seem to work well together. Both are very meditative. However, they are still different processes, and I
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 6, 2006
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          --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "trisha_mm" <trisha_mm@...> wrote:
          >
          > I was wondering whether some of you tried to combine self-initation
          > curriculum and the Abramelin. As in the curriculum one is using the
          > planetary influences and is dependant on ritual work, one has to top
          > the Outer Order work by going through the Portal work. But could one
          > actually combine this with the Abramelin? Or can those be done
          > separately?
          > If someone already said on this issue, please let me know.
          > Peace,
          > N.E.
          >

          Greetings!

          Abramelin and Portal would certainly seem to work well together. Both
          are very meditative. However, they are still different processes, and
          I wouldn't try piling both of them on my shoulders at once. Go
          through the GD material, and then do Abramelin on its own at another
          time. ;)

          LVX
          Aaron
        • Nightshade's Magic
          Hello and welcome to the list :) I know that a few Golden Daen as well as Thelemic lodges actually have the person do Abramelin at portal. Seems a good time
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 6, 2006
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            Hello and welcome to the list :)
            I know that a few Golden Daen as well as Thelemic lodges actually have the person do Abramelin at portal.  Seems a good time for it. However I would personally say that when one is doing the Abramelin operation to leave any and all magical systems out of it. They are fine for the first couple of months, but after that the Abramelin operation takes it's own coarse and using specific systems only seems to hinder things. Well that is what I experienced during it anyways.  I eventually did not even do any Enochian during it.  Then during the Abramelin, or at least the end of it, you would definatly know if the GD is the right path for you!  I would definatly say the Abramelin operation would enhance any ad all work done in the adepthood grades.

            Athena
            www.enochian.org

            On 7/6/06, Aaron <Aaron@...> wrote:

            --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "trisha_mm" <trisha_mm@...> wrote:
            >
            > I was wondering whether some of you tried to combine self-initation
            > curriculum and the Abramelin. As in the curriculum one is using the
            > planetary influences and is dependant on ritual work, one has to top
            > the Outer Order work by going through the Portal work. But could one
            > actually combine this with the Abramelin? Or can those be done
            > separately?
            > If someone already said on this issue, please let me know.
            > Peace,
            > N.E.
            >


          • trisha_mm
            ... the Ciceros? ... work ... little ... initation ... the ... top ... one ... it ... one. ... No, I never really managed to get my hands on the Cicero book,
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 8, 2006
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              --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Psyche <sol.et.luna@...> wrote:
              >
              > By self-initiation curriculum, are you referring to the book by
              the Ciceros?
              >
              > I know by your speech here that you're referring to Golden Dawn
              work
              > but beyond that I'm a little hazy. Could you please provide a
              little
              > bit more information?
              >
              >
              > Thanks and LVX,
              > Psyche
              >
              > On 7/6/06, trisha_mm <trisha_mm@...> wrote:
              > > I was wondering whether some of you tried to combine self-
              initation
              > > curriculum and the Abramelin. As in the curriculum one is using
              the
              > > planetary influences and is dependant on ritual work, one has to
              top
              > > the Outer Order work by going through the Portal work. But could
              one
              > > actually combine this with the Abramelin? Or can those be done
              > > separately?
              > > If someone already said on this issue, please let me know.
              > > Peace,
              > > N.E.
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > The Sun is its father, the moon its mother, the wind hath carried
              it
              > in its belly, the earth its nourse.
              > -Emerald Tablet of Hermes
              > ~~~~~~
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Great_Work
              > ~~~~~~
              > "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be
              one."
              > - Marcus Aurelius
              > ~~~~~~
              > Email: sol.et.luna@...
              > AIM: Sol et Luna 13 Yahoo!: x_sol_et_luna_x
              >

              No, I never really managed to get my hands on the Cicero book,
              unfortunately, and merely followed Lyam's outline of work. Hope you
              heard of that, but if you haven't, I'll fill in with details once
              again :) From what I've learned so far, one has to complete all of
              the Elemental Grades, because of the unbalances, and this is then
              topped by the Portal work. But the thing is, in his outline of
              Portal work, he has certain references to the HGA, and an invocation
              to top the whole thing. As I've always wanted to do Abramelin, ever
              since I read about it, I'm really not sure what I can do. Not to
              finish off with his idea of Portal work would be... well, not good,
              by the looks of it. :( And to arrange everything for the Abramelin
              after I've done with that -- well, I'm not sure how this would turn
              out, and whether it would be the same. I know this means combining
              some things which perhaps may not be combined, but I was hoping for
              a little bit of help. :)
              Peace,
              N.E.
            • Psyche
              Never heard of it, but in any system I know of that s Golden Dawn style, you don t do planetary work until Inner Order (5=6 and above). I m not sure where you
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 8, 2006
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                Never heard of it, but in any system I know of that's Golden Dawn
                style, you don't do planetary work until Inner Order (5=6 and above).
                I'm not sure where you got that there's planetary work in the
                Abramelin, however, because it's definitely an operation typically
                done in Portal.

                In Thelemic work, the point of the 5=6 is to achieve knowledge and
                conversation with your HGA. It could be argued that you should do
                your Abramelin then but frankly it's such a huge operation that it
                makes more sense to do it in Portal.

                Hope that this helps. Toss out questions if you still have them!


                LVX and 93s,
                Psyche

                On 7/8/06, trisha_mm <trisha_mm@...> wrote:

                > No, I never really managed to get my hands on the Cicero book,
                > unfortunately, and merely followed Lyam's outline of work. Hope you
                > heard of that, but if you haven't, I'll fill in with details once
                > again :) From what I've learned so far, one has to complete all of
                > the Elemental Grades, because of the unbalances, and this is then
                > topped by the Portal work. But the thing is, in his outline of
                > Portal work, he has certain references to the HGA, and an invocation
                > to top the whole thing. As I've always wanted to do Abramelin, ever
                > since I read about it, I'm really not sure what I can do. Not to
                > finish off with his idea of Portal work would be... well, not good,
                > by the looks of it. :( And to arrange everything for the Abramelin
                > after I've done with that -- well, I'm not sure how this would turn
                > out, and whether it would be the same. I know this means combining
                > some things which perhaps may not be combined, but I was hoping for
                > a little bit of help. :)



                --
                The Sun is its father, the moon its mother, the wind hath carried it
                in its belly, the earth its nourse.
                -Emerald Tablet of Hermes
                ~~~~~~
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Great_Work
                ~~~~~~
                "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one."
                - Marcus Aurelius
                ~~~~~~
                Email: sol.et.luna@...
                AIM: Sol et Luna 13 Yahoo!: x_sol_et_luna_x
              • Aaron
                ... Greetings! I don t want to take things off-topic, but you may be interested in this link: http://www.ritual-magic.com/ The Ordo Stella Matutina hosts an
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 8, 2006
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                  --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "trisha_mm" <trisha_mm@...> wrote:

                  > No, I never really managed to get my hands on the Cicero book,
                  > unfortunately, and merely followed Lyam's outline of work.

                  Greetings!

                  I don't want to take things off-topic, but you may be interested in
                  this link:

                  http://www.ritual-magic.com/

                  The Ordo Stella Matutina hosts an online Golden Dawn school- called
                  the "Sanctuary of Maat." They provide course materials, protors,
                  forums and community, and more- all geared toward folks trying to
                  self-initiate at home. ;) Yearly dues cost less than most good
                  Golden Dawn books! :)

                  As for Abramelin- I agree with Athena. Don't mix systems into
                  Abramelin, as they only hinder the work it is trying to do.

                  LVX
                  Aaron
                • Aaron
                  ... Just for the record, I have never heard of any Golden Dawn Order or group typically performing Abramelin during Portal. The HOGD, OSOSG, HOSM/HSoM nor
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 8, 2006
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                    --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Psyche <sol.et.luna@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Never heard of it, but in any system I know of that's Golden Dawn
                    > style, you don't do planetary work until Inner Order (5=6 and above).
                    > I'm not sure where you got that there's planetary work in the
                    > Abramelin, however, because it's definitely an operation typically
                    > done in Portal.

                    Just for the record, I have never heard of any Golden Dawn Order or
                    group "typically" performing Abramelin during Portal. The HOGD,
                    OSOSG, HOSM/HSoM nor (as far as I know) the EOGD do such a thing, and
                    I've not been in contact with any private Golden Dawn Temple that does
                    it. More typically, Portal students are told to focus on Portal work.

                    LVX
                    Aaron
                  • Psyche
                    ... That s why I said Golden Dawn style, not Golden Dawn. I was once involved in such a group that did. ... The group that I was a part of had an Inner
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 8, 2006
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                      On 7/8/06, Aaron <Aaron@...> wrote:
                      > > Never heard of it, but in any system I know of that's Golden Dawn
                      > > style, you don't do planetary work until Inner Order (5=6 and above).
                      > > I'm not sure where you got that there's planetary work in the
                      > > Abramelin, however, because it's definitely an operation typically
                      > > done in Portal.
                      >
                      > Just for the record, I have never heard of any Golden Dawn Order or
                      > group "typically" performing Abramelin during Portal.

                      That's why I said "Golden Dawn style," not Golden Dawn. I was once
                      involved in such a group that did.

                      > The HOGD,
                      > OSOSG, HOSM/HSoM nor (as far as I know) the EOGD do such a thing, and
                      > I've not been in contact with any private Golden Dawn Temple that does
                      > it. More typically, Portal students are told to focus on Portal work.

                      The group that I was a part of had an Inner Order that was Thelemic,
                      so that could've been why.


                      LVX and 93s,
                      Psyche


                      --
                      The Sun is its father, the moon its mother, the wind hath carried it
                      in its belly, the earth its nourse.
                      -Emerald Tablet of Hermes
                      ~~~~~~
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/The_Great_Work
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hiera_Mysteria
                      ~~~~~~
                      "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one."
                      - Marcus Aurelius
                      ~~~~~~
                      Email: sol.et.luna@...
                      AIM: Sol et Luna 13 Yahoo!: x_sol_et_luna_x
                    • Nightshade's Magic
                      The Abramelin working is an interesting one... It seems to be a system, operation and path all untio itself for those 6 (or 18 months). It seems the path
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 8, 2006
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                        The Abramelin working is an interesting one... It seems to be a system, operation and path all untio itself for those 6 (or 18 months).  It seems the path itself takes the aspirant where they need to go.  As you progress trappings such as specific systems and styles of magic seem to drop off.  It is just you and your HGA (but you might not fully know it until the end).  The external trappings of a particular system (such as Enochian for me) only seek to keep one the same, in their comfortable magical surroundings, how they have been working... and to keep one away from complete 100% change and surrender (the personality, ego and so on).  Just as our friends keep us the same, so does our magical methods if we don't allow them to dissintegrate for a time as well.  Any particular method or path that is followed during Abramelin is just one more thing that keeps us from the operation itself.  Sort of like putting up boards in front of your gate...  I find the Abramelin operation not like any other type of magic, it orders the universe so that you become closer and closer to your HGA, but also you need to be able to maintain the states required for it to do this.  If one is still doing a particular style of magic then theyhave not 100% allowed the operation to bring them to where they need to be.

                        I don't think all self initiatory workings are like this.  I have done others, some seem to enhance one's present magics and expand them. Whereas the Abramelin seems to remove them. So afterwards people tend to either take a new path, or have a completely new understanding of the old path.  If however one is working on the path, it is more difficult to see past it. Anything that you hold onto during Abramelin slows you down a bit as you cannot see past it.

                        Well that is what I experienced anyways :)  I was quite annoyed to have to give up my Enochian as well as some other magics during that time LOL, but it came out for the better. IT just became very obvious during the operation that the operation was the sole focus... So afterwards I had a MUCH broader perspective of Enochian, magic and so on, and had my true will confirmed which was nice.  Well that and got a free HGA connection to boot <g>  It is definatly a life changing operation, you will definatly never see the world and magic again after that. However that is the good part ofit :)

                        Well that was a long ramble, and just repeating myself but in a more lengthy way...

                        Athena
                        www.enochian.org
                      • trisha_mm
                        Wow, Athena, that really helps. That s why I wanted to ask people who have already done it, because I won t pretend I know a lot about it, and how everything s
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 8, 2006
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                          Wow, Athena, that really helps. That's why I wanted to ask people who
                          have already done it, because I won't pretend I know a lot about it,
                          and how everything's supposed to work beyond the book. Hard as it was
                          to get used to it, daily ceremonial work has become a real habit, and
                          I'm afraid something worse than smoking. :) You really got right to the
                          point.

                          I know about most of the online GD related lodges, but the thing is
                          that my fund has been a bit limited since I started off with my
                          studies. :( The most that I could do -- and it took certain sacrifices -
                          - was to get into the AMORC.

                          So it would be interesting to know how you -- those of you who want to
                          tell me, of course :) :) -- went about with your outer order work?

                          Peace,
                          N.E.
                        • Aaron
                          ... This is a great post, Athena! Of course, I would say that it is a life-long Path - as one should continue the Operation every Saturday or Sunday for the
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jul 9, 2006
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                            --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Nightshade's Magic"
                            <oipteaapdoce@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > The Abramelin working is an interesting one... It seems to be a system,
                            > operation and path all untio itself for those 6 (or 18 months).

                            This is a great post, Athena! Of course, I would say that it is a
                            life-long Path - as one should continue the "Operation" every Saturday
                            or Sunday for the rest of one's life. And, of course, to do that you
                            find that the "Operation" involves your entire life, not just the one
                            or two days a week.

                            > It seems
                            > the path itself takes the aspirant where they need to go. As you
                            progress
                            > trappings such as specific systems and styles of magic seem to drop
                            off. It
                            > is just you and your HGA (but you might not fully know it until the
                            end).
                            > The external trappings of a particular system (such as Enochian for
                            me) only
                            > seek to keep one the same, in their comfortable magical
                            surroundings, how
                            > they have been working... and to keep one away from complete 100%
                            change and
                            > surrender (the personality, ego and so on).

                            Exactly!! :) I went ahead and laid everything aside during the
                            Operation. By that time, I had already developed my own system of
                            magick- one which I never returned to after Abramelin. Doing the
                            Operation taught me an entirely new way of doing magick - which I
                            continue to this day.

                            Plus, the advice of my HGA led me to the H.O.G.D. (in which I had not
                            been previously interested), where I continue working to this very day
                            as well. (Neither Path conflicts with the other, and I don't mix them
                            to make "hybrid" practices.)

                            LVX
                            Aaron
                          • Danny
                            Greetings, I really wanna do this operation cause I still feel that in a spiritual way this is the best one can come across. Indian methods elaborate further
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jul 15, 2006
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                              Greetings,
                              I really wanna do this operation cause I still feel that in a spiritual way
                              this is the best one can come across. Indian methods elaborate further by
                              saying that once the inner voice is activated its your wish weather you want
                              to pursue it for material or spiritual gains. Same thing for the Abramelin,
                              I think its upto the magi as to how he wants to further progress. He can be
                              materialistic and continue along that path or otherwise.

                              I think I shud be right for this comparison Aaron.

                              Om Tat Sat
                              Dan
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