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Re: Where does one start?

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  • tony_hermetic
    Hi Seraphim, The information supplied by Khem is great background. However, what you re trying to do is acquire access to your Holy Guardian Angel (HGA). The
    Message 1 of 15 , Jun 15, 2006
      Hi Seraphim,

      The information supplied by Khem is great background. However, what
      you're trying to do is acquire access to your Holy Guardian Angel
      (HGA). The Abramelin operation is replete with references to the
      importance of praying from your heart.

      You could spend months dotting your "i's" and crossing your "t's"
      understanding the intricacies involved and still fail, unless you
      pray from the heart. Access to your HGA is provided by the grace of
      god, not by the exact following of a formula.

      Regarding your friends with no interest in the occult, tell them
      that you're about to begin a course of meditation for a 6 month
      period. Don't mention anything about working towards compelling
      legions of demons to carry out your will. No-one has a problem with
      meditation. Prayer will get your atheist friends off-side, and
      demons will upset just about everyone, unless they're into death
      metal.

      Just my 20 cent's worth,

      Tony


      --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Khem Caigan <Khem@...> wrote:
      >
      > Seraphim doth schriebble:
      > >
      > > Thanks! So, it sounds like the operation is very
      > > self-contained, and can be done on one's own, right?
      >
      > Not at all; it must be taken in its context. For
      > starters, take a look at Exodus 30:

      <snip>
    • Khem Caigan
      ... ... Seek out the channel of the soul, from where it descended in a certain order to serve the body; and seek how you will raise it [the
      Message 2 of 15 , Jun 15, 2006
        Tony doth schriebble:
        >
        <SNIPS>
        > You could spend months dotting your "i's" and crossing your "t's"
        > understanding the intricacies involved and still fail, unless you
        > pray from the heart. Access to your HGA is provided by the grace of
        > god, not by the exact following of a formula.
        <SNIPS>

        " Seek out the channel of the soul, from where it descended
        in a certain order to serve the body; and seek how you will
        raise it [the soul] up again to its order by combining
        action with a sacred word. "

        ~ Chaldaean Oracles, Fragment 124.

        " That is, seek the source of the soul, from where the soul
        had been led into your body; and how, by raising it up and
        awakening it by means of telestic rites, you may lead it
        back up from where it has come. "

        ~ Michael Psellus [c.1019-1078]

        On Unceasing Prayer
        From the Life of St. Gregory Palamas, Archbishop of
        Thessalonica by St. Nikodemos of the Holy Mountain,
        editor of The Philokalia
        http://tinyurl.com/he7gb

        Knowledge of God according to St. Gregory Palamas
        http://tinyurl.com/epms8

        Prayer of the Heart for the Faithful Living in the World
        by Elder Joseph of Vatopaidi (Spiritual Child of Elder
        Joseph the Hesychast)
        http://tinyurl.com/hhss7

        Cors in Manu Domine,


        ~ Khem Caigan
        <Khem@...>

        " There are many who live in the mountains
        and behave as if they were in the town, and
        they are wasting their time. It is possible
        to be a solitary in one's mind while living
        in a crowd, and it is possible for one who
        is a solitary to live in the crowd of his
        own thoughts. "

        ~ Amma Syncletica
      • mysticalsonglight
        Thanks Tony. This is very helpful. It raises a couple more questions for me though. You mention praying from the heart , and the grace of God , BOTH of which
        Message 3 of 15 , Jun 15, 2006
          Thanks Tony. This is very helpful.

          It raises a couple more questions for me though. You
          mention "praying from the heart", and the "grace of God", BOTH of
          which I very much believe in and agree with you. Here is my
          question. I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian. In the Orthodox
          Tradition, there is much emphasis placed on the "Prayer of the
          Heart", also referred to as "The Jesus Prayer" ("Lord Jesus Christ,
          Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner".) This prayer is of the heart
          is used quite extensively by Orthodox Monastics (the practice is
          known as "hesychasm"), in order to attain Union with God, which of
          course is by His Grace and not the specific formula of the prayer.

          (Actually, I guess that's a statement, just leading up to the
          question. Now come the questions.)... In the Abramelin Operation,
          why specifically is the objective to access our HGA? The reason I
          ask is because since man was created in the image of God, and Angels
          were not, and since angels are created beings also, wouldn't it be a
          higher purpose for us to attain Union with God? Or, does our HGA
          help us with that end? I know in the Orthodox Tradition, there are
          MANY prayers to Saints and also to Angels, and they they help us
          through their prayers in our Spiritual advancement, to help us
          attain Union with God (which the Saints already have). Is this the
          same concept?

          And, if it is the same concept, then why the Abramelin Operation as
          opposed to hesychasm?

          PLEASE forgive me, if I sound at all argumentative. I'm really not
          meaning it that way. I'm just trying to gain some understanding, and
          unfortunately, for me the best way to do that is to ask comparitive
          type questions. This can sometimes sound like I'm arguing, but I
          REALLY don't mean it that way.

          I guess where I'm confused the most, if that if the contacting of
          the HGA is through prayer from the heart, and all of God's Grace,
          and not teh actual formula...then I don't understand what the
          Operation is really for. Unless I am totally misunderstanding the
          whole thing (which I probably am), the Operation sounds like it is
          more about US doing all the work, to command various spirits (i.e.
          HGA, demons, etc.)

          Please help me understand the difference. Thanks for your patience!

          Seraphim

          --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "tony_hermetic"
          <tony_hermetic@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Seraphim,
          >
          > The information supplied by Khem is great background. However,
          what
          > you're trying to do is acquire access to your Holy Guardian Angel
          > (HGA). The Abramelin operation is replete with references to the
          > importance of praying from your heart.
          >
          > You could spend months dotting your "i's" and crossing your "t's"
          > understanding the intricacies involved and still fail, unless you
          > pray from the heart. Access to your HGA is provided by the grace
          of
          > god, not by the exact following of a formula.
          >
          > Regarding your friends with no interest in the occult, tell them
          > that you're about to begin a course of meditation for a 6 month
          > period. Don't mention anything about working towards compelling
          > legions of demons to carry out your will. No-one has a problem
          with
          > meditation. Prayer will get your atheist friends off-side, and
          > demons will upset just about everyone, unless they're into death
          > metal.
          >
          > Just my 20 cent's worth,
          >
          > Tony
          >
          >
          > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Khem Caigan <Khem@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Seraphim doth schriebble:
          > > >
          > > > Thanks! So, it sounds like the operation is very
          > > > self-contained, and can be done on one's own, right?
          > >
          > > Not at all; it must be taken in its context. For
          > > starters, take a look at Exodus 30:
          >
          > <snip>
          >
        • mysticalsonglight
          I m PARTICULARLY grateful for seeing teh reference to St. Gregory Palamas here! He was INSTRUMENTAL in the hesychast controversy within Orthodoxy in the 13th
          Message 4 of 15 , Jun 15, 2006
            I'm PARTICULARLY grateful for seeing teh reference to St. Gregory
            Palamas here! He was INSTRUMENTAL in the hesychast controversy
            within Orthodoxy in the 13th century. He pretty much was the
            champion for this very important teaching of the Church.

            THANK YOU!

            Seraphim

            --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Khem Caigan <Khem@...> wrote:
            >
            > Tony doth schriebble:
            > >
            > <SNIPS>
            > > You could spend months dotting your "i's" and crossing your "t's"
            > > understanding the intricacies involved and still fail, unless you
            > > pray from the heart. Access to your HGA is provided by the grace
            of
            > > god, not by the exact following of a formula.
            > <SNIPS>
            >
            > " Seek out the channel of the soul, from where it descended
            > in a certain order to serve the body; and seek how you will
            > raise it [the soul] up again to its order by combining
            > action with a sacred word. "
            >
            > ~ Chaldaean Oracles, Fragment 124.
            >
            > " That is, seek the source of the soul, from where the soul
            > had been led into your body; and how, by raising it up and
            > awakening it by means of telestic rites, you may lead it
            > back up from where it has come. "
            >
            > ~ Michael Psellus [c.1019-1078]
            >
            > On Unceasing Prayer
            > From the Life of St. Gregory Palamas, Archbishop of
            > Thessalonica by St. Nikodemos of the Holy Mountain,
            > editor of The Philokalia
            > http://tinyurl.com/he7gb
            >
            > Knowledge of God according to St. Gregory Palamas
            > http://tinyurl.com/epms8
            >
            > Prayer of the Heart for the Faithful Living in the World
            > by Elder Joseph of Vatopaidi (Spiritual Child of Elder
            > Joseph the Hesychast)
            > http://tinyurl.com/hhss7
            >
            > Cors in Manu Domine,
            >
            >
            > ~ Khem Caigan
            > <Khem@...>
            >
            > " There are many who live in the mountains
            > and behave as if they were in the town, and
            > they are wasting their time. It is possible
            > to be a solitary in one's mind while living
            > in a crowd, and it is possible for one who
            > is a solitary to live in the crowd of his
            > own thoughts. "
            >
            > ~ Amma Syncletica
            >
          • mysticalsonglight
            And Elder Joseph, as well!!!!! ... of
            Message 5 of 15 , Jun 15, 2006
              And Elder Joseph, as well!!!!!

              --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Khem Caigan <Khem@...> wrote:
              >
              > Tony doth schriebble:
              > >
              > <SNIPS>
              > > You could spend months dotting your "i's" and crossing your "t's"
              > > understanding the intricacies involved and still fail, unless you
              > > pray from the heart. Access to your HGA is provided by the grace
              of
              > > god, not by the exact following of a formula.
              > <SNIPS>
              >
              > " Seek out the channel of the soul, from where it descended
              > in a certain order to serve the body; and seek how you will
              > raise it [the soul] up again to its order by combining
              > action with a sacred word. "
              >
              > ~ Chaldaean Oracles, Fragment 124.
              >
              > " That is, seek the source of the soul, from where the soul
              > had been led into your body; and how, by raising it up and
              > awakening it by means of telestic rites, you may lead it
              > back up from where it has come. "
              >
              > ~ Michael Psellus [c.1019-1078]
              >
              > On Unceasing Prayer
              > From the Life of St. Gregory Palamas, Archbishop of
              > Thessalonica by St. Nikodemos of the Holy Mountain,
              > editor of The Philokalia
              > http://tinyurl.com/he7gb
              >
              > Knowledge of God according to St. Gregory Palamas
              > http://tinyurl.com/epms8
              >
              > Prayer of the Heart for the Faithful Living in the World
              > by Elder Joseph of Vatopaidi (Spiritual Child of Elder
              > Joseph the Hesychast)
              > http://tinyurl.com/hhss7
              >
              > Cors in Manu Domine,
              >
              >
              > ~ Khem Caigan
              > <Khem@...>
              >
              > " There are many who live in the mountains
              > and behave as if they were in the town, and
              > they are wasting their time. It is possible
              > to be a solitary in one's mind while living
              > in a crowd, and it is possible for one who
              > is a solitary to live in the crowd of his
              > own thoughts. "
              >
              > ~ Amma Syncletica
              >
            • mysticalsonglight
              That s odd! Prior to this message, I sent one thanking you for the reference to Gregory Palamas, who was the champion of the hesychasm controversy in the 13th
              Message 6 of 15 , Jun 15, 2006
                That's odd! Prior to this message, I sent one thanking you for the
                reference to Gregory Palamas, who was the champion of the hesychasm
                controversy in the 13th century, and showed the importance of this
                practice. For some reason, that one didn't post. Oh well.

                Thanks!

                --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "mysticalsonglight"
                <mysticalsonglight@...> wrote:
                >
                > And Elder Joseph, as well!!!!!
                >
                > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Khem Caigan <Khem@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Tony doth schriebble:
                > > >
                > > <SNIPS>
                > > > You could spend months dotting your "i's" and crossing
                your "t's"
                > > > understanding the intricacies involved and still fail, unless
                you
                > > > pray from the heart. Access to your HGA is provided by the
                grace
                > of
                > > > god, not by the exact following of a formula.
                > > <SNIPS>
                > >
                > > " Seek out the channel of the soul, from where it descended
                > > in a certain order to serve the body; and seek how you will
                > > raise it [the soul] up again to its order by combining
                > > action with a sacred word. "
                > >
                > > ~ Chaldaean Oracles, Fragment 124.
                > >
                > > " That is, seek the source of the soul, from where the soul
                > > had been led into your body; and how, by raising it up and
                > > awakening it by means of telestic rites, you may lead it
                > > back up from where it has come. "
                > >
                > > ~ Michael Psellus [c.1019-1078]
                > >
                > > On Unceasing Prayer
                > > From the Life of St. Gregory Palamas, Archbishop of
                > > Thessalonica by St. Nikodemos of the Holy Mountain,
                > > editor of The Philokalia
                > > http://tinyurl.com/he7gb
                > >
                > > Knowledge of God according to St. Gregory Palamas
                > > http://tinyurl.com/epms8
                > >
                > > Prayer of the Heart for the Faithful Living in the World
                > > by Elder Joseph of Vatopaidi (Spiritual Child of Elder
                > > Joseph the Hesychast)
                > > http://tinyurl.com/hhss7
                > >
                > > Cors in Manu Domine,
                > >
                > >
                > > ~ Khem Caigan
                > > <Khem@>
                > >
                > > " There are many who live in the mountains
                > > and behave as if they were in the town, and
                > > they are wasting their time. It is possible
                > > to be a solitary in one's mind while living
                > > in a crowd, and it is possible for one who
                > > is a solitary to live in the crowd of his
                > > own thoughts. "
                > >
                > > ~ Amma Syncletica
                > >
                >
              • tony_hermetic
                Hi Seraphim, ... Christ, ... heart ... I assume that you re referring to the Philokalia writings, which are beautiful. The trouble is that they come from
                Message 7 of 15 , Jun 15, 2006
                  Hi Seraphim,

                  > It raises a couple more questions for me though. You
                  > mention "praying from the heart", and the "grace of God", BOTH of
                  > which I very much believe in and agree with you. Here is my
                  > question. I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian. In the Orthodox
                  > Tradition, there is much emphasis placed on the "Prayer of the
                  > Heart", also referred to as "The Jesus Prayer" ("Lord Jesus
                  Christ,
                  > Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner".) This prayer is of the
                  heart
                  > is used quite extensively by Orthodox Monastics (the practice is
                  > known as "hesychasm"), in order to attain Union with God, which of
                  > course is by His Grace and not the specific formula of the prayer.

                  I assume that you're referring to the Philokalia writings, which are
                  beautiful. The trouble is that they come from someone else's heart.
                  By praying from the heart, I meant that you should pray in your own
                  words. By all means start with the Jesus prayer, but then ad lib and
                  improvise. Don't think about what you are praying, but rather, let
                  it pour directly out of your heart.

                  The Abramelin operation can be performed by anyone regardless of
                  their religious background. You should really study the text closely.

                  > (Actually, I guess that's a statement, just leading up to the
                  > question. Now come the questions.)... In the Abramelin Operation,
                  > why specifically is the objective to access our HGA? The reason I
                  > ask is because since man was created in the image of God, and
                  Angels
                  > were not, and since angels are created beings also, wouldn't it be
                  a
                  > higher purpose for us to attain Union with God? Or, does our HGA
                  > help us with that end? I know in the Orthodox Tradition, there are
                  > MANY prayers to Saints and also to Angels, and they they help us
                  > through their prayers in our Spiritual advancement, to help us
                  > attain Union with God (which the Saints already have). Is this the
                  > same concept?

                  The Abramelin operation was conferred by Abraham unto his son,
                  Lamech. Lamech was Abraham's second son. His first born son, Joseph
                  received the "Holy Tradition of the Qabalah."

                  This clearly indicates that the Qabalah is superior to the Abramelin
                  operation. Abraham wanted to ensure that Lamech didn't miss out
                  altogether.

                  Students of the Qabalah ascend up the Tree of Life on their way to
                  union with the godhead. Access to the HGA occurs at Tiphareth, which
                  is halfway up the Tree of Life. Tiphareth is just one of ten
                  sephiroth. Students of the Qabalah have the luxury of experiencing
                  the sephiroth below Tiphareth as a preliminary to accessing their
                  HGA, whereupon they can resume their journey through the remaining
                  sephiroth until they unite with the godhead at Kether, at the top of
                  the Tree of Life.

                  The Abramelin operation is effectively a shortcut to Tiphareth.
                  Tiphareth represents the heart centre and the heart chakra. There
                  are a number of techniques for accessing the HGA, Abramelin and
                  Qabalistic magick are but two. Once the HGA is accessed, you can
                  then work with the demons.

                  Regarding the HGA, there is some controversy as to what it is. Some
                  believe that it is an angel assigned to us at birth, whereas others
                  believe that it is our higher self. Either way, the HGA is our link
                  to the godhead, and enables us to channel messages directly.

                  The HGA enables us to transcend Tiphareth and move to Geburah and
                  Chesed. At this point the HGA is left behind as we cross the Abyss
                  to Binah.

                  > And, if it is the same concept, then why the Abramelin operation
                  as
                  > opposed to hesychasm?

                  Hesychasm appears to take you beyond Tiphareth, and hence further
                  than the Abramelin operation would.

                  > PLEASE forgive me, if I sound at all argumentative. I'm really not
                  > meaning it that way. I'm just trying to gain some understanding,
                  and
                  > unfortunately, for me the best way to do that is to ask
                  comparitive
                  > type questions. This can sometimes sound like I'm arguing, but I
                  > REALLY don't mean it that way.

                  You're not being argumentative at all. I'm providing my own opinion
                  in this email, and I don't expect everyone on this list to agree
                  with me.

                  > I guess where I'm confused the most, if that if the contacting of
                  > the HGA is through prayer from the heart, and all of God's Grace,
                  > and not teh actual formula...then I don't understand what the
                  > Operation is really for. Unless I am totally misunderstanding the
                  > whole thing (which I probably am), the Operation sounds like it is
                  > more about US doing all the work, to command various spirits (i.e.
                  > HGA, demons, etc.)

                  The point that I was trying to make was that it's important to not
                  get stuck in the details. As an example, a few days ago we were
                  having a discussion on what the Abramelin oil should be on the basis
                  of an earlier version of the Abramelin text and a proper translation
                  of the book of Exodus. Despite using what is probably an incorrect
                  formula for the Abramelin oil, Crowley and many others still managed
                  to access their HGA.

                  It is the HGA which actually enables us to control demons. Without
                  it, we have to use the names of god and of angels.

                  The operation is about us doing all the work. Without our work,
                  nothing will be achieved. Access to the HGA in the operation
                  however, is ultimately by grace. So, it's actually a combination of
                  our work and of grace.

                  > Please help me understand the difference. Thanks for your patience!

                  I hope all this makes sense.

                  Wishing you success with the operation,

                  Tony
                • Aaron
                  ... Athena and I disagree on some key issues. I say that beginning on or near the Spring Equinox is madatory. ;) I do agree that gathering the supplies is
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jun 16, 2006
                    --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Nightshade's Magic"
                    <oipteaapdoce@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Next up you would pick the date to start (usually spring but that isn't
                    > mandatory), and start to gather the supplies needed for the operation.
                    >
                    > Athena


                    Athena and I disagree on some key issues. I say that beginning on or
                    near the Spring Equinox is madatory. ;)

                    I do agree that gathering the supplies is first. You should spend at
                    least six months in study of the book beforehand, and you should
                    gather the tools and such during that same period.

                    LVX
                    Aaron
                  • Aaron
                    ... Greetings! Yes, the Guaridan Angel is intended to bring you to union with God. It is your personal representative of the Holy Spirit, the Redeemer (similar
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jun 16, 2006
                      --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "mysticalsonglight"
                      <mysticalsonglight@...> wrote:

                      > I guess where I'm confused the most, if that if the contacting of
                      > the HGA is through prayer from the heart, and all of God's Grace,
                      > and not teh actual formula...then I don't understand what the
                      > Operation is really for. Unless I am totally misunderstanding the
                      > whole thing (which I probably am), the Operation sounds like it is
                      > more about US doing all the work, to command various spirits (i.e.
                      > HGA, demons, etc.)

                      Greetings!

                      Yes, the Guaridan Angel is intended to bring you to union with God.
                      It is your personal representative of the Holy Spirit, the Redeemer
                      (similar to Christ) and the Metatron.

                      However, you do NOT command the Angel. It acts as a guide and
                      teacher, argues for you in the Divine Court and carries the Word of
                      God down to you.

                      As for the formula - I am of the belief that the formula is important.
                      Abramelin is not just an elaborate method of contacting the HGA. It
                      goes FAR deeper than that. Perhaps the following will explain. It's
                      something I posted here not too long ago:

                      -------------------------
                      Re: The Abramelin Operation versus other Methods of Realization

                      "No Shortcut to Abramelin" (from the Solomonic Group):

                      [Shortcut to Abramelin?]
                      > from Scot's <The Discovery of Witchcraft> Book XV
                      > Chapter VII:
                      >
                      > How to obtain the familiarity of the Genius or Good Angel, and cause
                      him to
                      > appear.

                      This is useful material - though I would add that I see a marked
                      diffeence between the Genius- who is tied directly to the birth-chart-
                      and the Holy Guardian Angel. (While I did not adopt that idea from
                      Agrippa, I do find it interesting to note that he agrees.)

                      Perhaps this gives me a good opportunity to clarify a thing or two
                      here. I see you folks insisting that the Guardian Angel can be
                      reached (or can reach you!) in many different ways. And you are all
                      correct! If you want to establish communication with your HGA, try
                      starting out with Single-Pointed meditation:

                      http://kheph777.tripod.com/art_meditation.html

                      Then move into Special-Insight meditation. It doesn't matter if you
                      use the Eastern or Western versions of Special-Insight. They are
                      different, but both of them will do you a lot of good, and get you
                      closer to contact with your HGA.

                      You might establish contact while undertaking Liber Samekh, or while
                      skrying the Celestial Cities and Aethyrs of Loagaeth, or meditating on
                      the 231 Gates, etc, etc. Hell, you might even accomplish it through
                      nothing more than saying your prayers before bed each night - if you
                      keep asking. These are all wonderful forms of devotional magick.
                      None of them are intended to open communication with the Guardian
                      Angel, but they are all the kinds of things you might be doing to help
                      it along.

                      So, you may ask, what is it that gets me ranting on the subject of
                      Abramelin? Why do I continue to insist that none of the above will
                      accomplish the same result as Abramelin? Simple: establishing
                      contact with the Holy Guardian Angel is NOT what Abramelin is "about."

                      Sure, establishing that contact is a BIG part of Abramelin. You
                      certainly can't accomplish the Rite without it. And devotion is also
                      essential. These things are as important to Abramelin as an engine
                      and wheels are to a car. But, these things are not "Abramelin" any
                      more than the engine and wheels are a "car."

                      Abramelin is a highly specialized death-rebirth Rite by which you call
                      down your Guardian Angel and put the entity to your head. It is a
                      Crowning ceremony. It is a Wedding. It is a Possession meant to last
                      a lifetime.

                      This initiatory process can be found throughout all cultures of the
                      world. I've discussed them here and elsewhere before. From the most
                      ancient and primitive shamanic traditions to the most elaborate
                      Temple-faith empires, the process that we see outlined in Abramelin is
                      found. It has *always* been how shamans and prophets are initiated.

                      Neither prayer nor meditation, evocation nor invocation, nor skrying
                      astral realms are going to achieve the same result. Outside of
                      Abramelin, there is nothing in the entire corpus of Solomonic
                      literature that comes even close. (Not even Liber Juratis, which is
                      closest to Abramelin in its essential intent.) I've even yet to find
                      anything in Golden Dawn or contemporary Western occult sources that
                      matches the process.

                      There is no shortcut method. If the method you are using does not
                      result in an NPE living inside your skull, permanently, then you are
                      not doing anything like Abramelin. (Or Ocha, or...) As I have said
                      so many times before, Abramelin is "about" the wedding between you and
                      your Guardian Angel. It is the "Knowlege" half of the "Knowledge and
                      Conversation" equation.

                      LVX
                      Aaron
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