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Re: [abramelin] Re: Adapting the 18m version to the 6m version

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  • Athena
    Yep I did that, the 18 month did add something to things, but wasn t necessary. However who wouldn t want a reason to up the HGA connection during 18 months?
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 12, 2012
      Yep I did that, the 18 month did add something to things, but wasn't necessary.  However who wouldn't want a reason to up the HGA connection during 18 months? :)  It was extremely enjoyable, but more of a hang out with my HGA for 18 months than prepare myself to meet my HGA. 

      Athena
      --
      www.enochian.org

      On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 5:19 AM, AaronL <kheph777@...> wrote:
       


      --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Shaun <rebel_lion973@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Considering I'd more than love to attempt the operation (18m) but do not
      > have the space in order to do so

      Question - are you *absolutely* sure you lack the space to set up an Oratory?


      > the
      > idea is to obviously glean from both texts but to 'compact' the 18m
      > version into the 6m working, taking Mathers frame work of intensity over
      > said period of time but using the 18m operation as it were.

      I agree that both texts should be used together. The author of the French version, while shortening the Rite, also added in some worthwhile material such as certain Psalms, etc that I think should be kept.

      Just a point of fact, though, Mathers did not create the French version. He just translated it.


      > Belive it is
      > a matter of working in threes for both. If I have to do the 6m version
      > will intend to return to the 18m sometime later in life.

      It doesn't really work that way. Abramelin is a one-shot deal. It is not a mere summoning ceremony, but an initiation ritual that results in a lifetime bond between you and your HGA. Once done, you'll spend the rest of your life maintaining that bond and expanding your relationship with the Angel. (Abramelin outlines a weekly process you can and really should follow.)

      If you do the six month version, there is no reason to go back and do the longer version later.

      LVX
      Aaron




      --

      Give a gift people will really remember this year, shop at www.enochian.org



      Odo cicle qaa
      --
      www.enochian.org

      "The exalted and powerful spirits serve only their confidants and intimate friends"



    • Shaun
      Ha! Hey Athena, have just finished reading your Abramelin journal :-) Wrote to you the other week about your Enochian Grimoire... did intend to spend time with
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 13, 2012
        Ha! Hey Athena, have just finished reading your Abramelin journal :-)
        Wrote to you the other week about your Enochian Grimoire... did intend
        to spend time with it (Enochian) after my time with the GD but read your
        Abramelin account and it re-inspired me, part where you mentioned how
        you learnt more in 6months than in a life time of work. Have always
        intended to attempt the operation but as I live at home with family
        simply don't have the space as ideally it'd be the 18m version I'd like
        to go for. Considering this and after reading your account I figured
        that the 6m is just as valid and more feasible given the solitude and
        space required to do it in my circumstance. All the same, I'll be buying
        a Grimiore from you soon .lol.

        @ Aaron, not while I live with family .lol. Finding space in London, UK
        isn't easy or cheap but have located a few rental spots in other cities
        that'd make it more affordable, £350 a month isn't too bad, something I
        can save for. Problem with finding a space with the right
        proportions/directions but figured I'd pitch one of those indoor gazebo
        things, can even get panels with ''windows'' and doors, with the right
        sized room it should be easy to set up and face in the right
        direction.... if not that then I'd consider a make shift tent of some
        kind, simply mark out the quaters on the ceiling and hang the fabric to
        readdress the room in that way... did have a question though,
        considering it'd be a room within a room I suppose that the oil would be
        put around it rather than the room its inside? Bit baffed by that one.

        Would still like to condense the 18m version, although as you guys said,
        it's probably best to go by the Mathers one and patch it up with the
        Dehn's where nessary. Am talking years, at least two years ahead of
        myself here, have Philosophus grade to get through yet but will need the
        time to prepare.

        Peace
        /s/
      • Adam Sod
        I ve done extensive work comparing the two version, line for line. I ve noticed some very interesting differences. Without knowing the history of Abramelin and
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 13, 2012
          I've done extensive work comparing the two version, line for line. I've noticed some very interesting differences. Without knowing the history of Abramelin and his book, it is hard to conclude why such differences exist, but I think that each one provides information, missing in the other. Several theories come to mind: 1) Both are wrote the way they are on purpose, by the same hand; if you've ever watched The 9th Gate then you know what I am getting at; 2) they were both wrote by the same hand or possibly his son or Lamech's student (line), recording different versions of the same process; Abramelin tells you that end result was accomplished long ago by the prophets, but that the process has to be modified to accomidate the changes in society.
           
          After studying it, I feel that my take on things is much different that most of the other stuff that I have read about it. I'm not sure if this is supposed to happen to everyone who pursues the process of what.
           
          Anyway, it is a very interesting book.
           
          LVX,
          AdamSod

          From: Shaun <rebel_lion973@...>
          To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 9:13 AM
          Subject: [abramelin] Re: Adapting the 18m version to the 6m version

           

          Ha! Hey Athena, have just finished reading your Abramelin journal :-)
          Wrote to you the other week about your Enochian Grimoire... did intend
          to spend time with it (Enochian) after my time with the GD but read your
          Abramelin account and it re-inspired me, part where you mentioned how
          you learnt more in 6months than in a life time of work. Have always
          intended to attempt the operation but as I live at home with family
          simply don't have the space as ideally it'd be the 18m version I'd like
          to go for. Considering this and after reading your account I figured
          that the 6m is just as valid and more feasible given the solitude and
          space required to do it in my circumstance. All the same, I'll be buying
          a Grimiore from you soon .lol.

          @ Aaron, not while I live with family .lol. Finding space in London, UK
          isn't easy or cheap but have located a few rental spots in other cities
          that'd make it more affordable, £350 a month isn't too bad, something I
          can save for. Problem with finding a space with the right
          proportions/directions but figured I'd pitch one of those indoor gazebo
          things, can even get panels with ''windows'' and doors, with the right
          sized room it should be easy to set up and face in the right
          direction.... if not that then I'd consider a make shift tent of some
          kind, simply mark out the quaters on the ceiling and hang the fabric to
          readdress the room in that way... did have a question though,
          considering it'd be a room within a room I suppose that the oil would be
          put around it rather than the room its inside? Bit baffed by that one.

          Would still like to condense the 18m version, although as you guys said,
          it's probably best to go by the Mathers one and patch it up with the
          Dehn's where nessary. Am talking years, at least two years ahead of
          myself here, have Philosophus grade to get through yet but will need the
          time to prepare.

          Peace
          /s/


        • AaronL
          Greetings! I don t see any reason to suspect both texts were written by the same hand. It seems more likely that a French Solomonic magician got ahold of
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 13, 2012
            Greetings!

            I don't see any reason to suspect both texts were written "by the same hand." It seems more likely that a French Solomonic magician got ahold of the original German version and decided to modify the Rite to last only six moons instead of eighteen. I call him a Solomonic magician because he made up for the shortened time by adding in some Psalms, magick squares and the child skryer - all common to the Solomonic tradition. With the exception of the child skryer (which may be problematic in today's culture), I think the Solomonic additions should be kept even if one does the longer version.

            From a practical standpoint, and aside from the Solomonic additions, there aren't that many differences. The original version gives you a choice of colors for the over-robe used to conjure the spirits. It also does not use Galangal in the incense - although Georg decided to include that ingredient in his translation.

            Perhaps the most interesting difference is the Lamen. In the French version it must be a square plate of silver. In the German original it can be silver or wax, and it can also be seven-sided rather than square. What this tells us is that the "Lamen" is in fact a traditional Almadel - in the same family as the Almadel of Solomon and John Dee's Sigillium Dei Ameth. (Of course, the Abramelin Almadel does NOT have any inscriptions.)

            Another important bit of info centers on the question of one's birth religion. The French author chose to interpret that part to mean one should not change their birth religion - no matter what it was. Much today has been written about that insruction and its philosophical ramifications.

            However, in the German original we learn that the instruction actually was that a Jew who converted to another faith could not perform the Operation. That restriction was not placed on any other Faith - presumably because it would be just fine to convert TO Judaism, and the author really didn't care if you changed from one non-Jewish faith to another.

            LVX
            Aaron


            --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Adam Sod <adamsod72@...> wrote:
            >
            > I've done extensive work comparing the two version, line for line. I've noticed some very interesting differences. Without knowing the history of Abramelin and his book, it is hard to conclude why such differences exist, but I think that each one provides information, missing in the other. Several theories come to mind: 1) Both are wrote the way they are on purpose, by the same hand; if you've ever watched The 9th Gate then you know what I am getting at; 2) they were both wrote by the same hand or possibly his son or Lamech's student (line), recording different versions of the same process; Abramelin tells you that end result was accomplished long ago by the prophets, but that the process has to be modified to accomidate the changes in society.
            >  
            > After studying it, I feel that my take on things is much different that most of the other stuff that I have read about it. I'm not sure if this is supposed to happen to everyone who pursues the process of what.
            >  
            > Anyway, it is a very interesting book.
            >  
            > LVX,
            > AdamSod
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Shaun <rebel_lion973@...>
            > To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 9:13 AM
            > Subject: [abramelin] Re: Adapting the 18m version to the 6m version
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            > Ha! Hey Athena, have just finished reading your Abramelin journal :-)
            > Wrote to you the other week about your Enochian Grimoire... did intend
            > to spend time with it (Enochian) after my time with the GD but read your
            > Abramelin account and it re-inspired me, part where you mentioned how
            > you learnt more in 6months than in a life time of work. Have always
            > intended to attempt the operation but as I live at home with family
            > simply don't have the space as ideally it'd be the 18m version I'd like
            > to go for. Considering this and after reading your account I figured
            > that the 6m is just as valid and more feasible given the solitude and
            > space required to do it in my circumstance. All the same, I'll be buying
            > a Grimiore from you soon .lol.
            >
            > @ Aaron, not while I live with family .lol. Finding space in London, UK
            > isn't easy or cheap but have located a few rental spots in other cities
            > that'd make it more affordable, £350 a month isn't too bad, something I
            > can save for. Problem with finding a space with the right
            > proportions/directions but figured I'd pitch one of those indoor gazebo
            > things, can even get panels with ''windows'' and doors, with the right
            > sized room it should be easy to set up and face in the right
            > direction.... if not that then I'd consider a make shift tent of some
            > kind, simply mark out the quaters on the ceiling and hang the fabric to
            > readdress the room in that way... did have a question though,
            > considering it'd be a room within a room I suppose that the oil would be
            > put around it rather than the room its inside? Bit baffed by that one.
            >
            > Would still like to condense the 18m version, although as you guys said,
            > it's probably best to go by the Mathers one and patch it up with the
            > Dehn's where nessary. Am talking years, at least two years ahead of
            > myself here, have Philosophus grade to get through yet but will need the
            > time to prepare.
            >
            > Peace
            > /s/
            >
          • AaronL
            ... Though I don t know your particular situation, it is technically feasible to perform the Operation with family around. As long as they know to respect the
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 13, 2012
              --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Shaun <rebel_lion973@...> wrote:
              >
              > @ Aaron, not while I live with family .lol.

              Though I don't know your particular situation, it is technically feasible to perform the Operation with family around. As long as they know to respect the Oratory and your time within it. However, if you can rent a room elsewhere that really would be ideal.

              > can save for. Problem with finding a space with the right
              > proportions/directions but figured I'd pitch one of those indoor gazebo
              > things, can even get panels with ''windows'' and doors, with the right
              > sized room it should be easy to set up and face in the right
              > direction....

              Even then you'll want a window - *preferably* in the east. It is important to have actual sunlight shine into the room. (However, as I've told folks before - if you simply can't get a room with an eastern window, or any windows at all, don't let that stop you.

              > if not that then I'd consider a make shift tent of some
              > kind, simply mark out the quaters on the ceiling and hang the fabric to
              > readdress the room in that way...

              I hung up white sheets in my living room, directly around a set of sliding glass doors that let onto a terrace. There is a photo of it in the photo section of this group.

              > did have a question though,
              > considering it'd be a room within a room I suppose that the oil would be
              > put around it rather than the room its inside? Bit baffed by that one.
              >

              Oil? Did you mean the river sand?

              > Would still like to condense the 18m version,

              The French author already did that for you. lol See my previous post about the minor differences between the two versions.

              > although as you guys said,
              > it's probably best to go by the Mathers one and patch it up with the
              > Dehn's where nessary. Am talking years, at least two years ahead of
              > myself here, have Philosophus grade to get through yet but will need the
              > time to prepare.

              Yeah, I would NOT attempt Abramelin while working through the Golden Dawn's Elemental Grades. It might be ok to try it during your Portal, but frankly I'd not even do that. Wait until you've reached 5=6, then do Abramelin. (Abramelin, after all, is a Solar Rite.)

              LVX
              Aaron
            • Voltaire07
              dear friends, brothers and sisters it is more than time to make a relaunch of the Book of Abramelin. Over the years You collected such an extraordinary
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 15, 2012
                dear friends,
                brothers and sisters

                it is more than time to make a relaunch of the Book of Abramelin.
                Over the years You collected such an extraordinary knowledge of experience and such precious considerations,
                additional to a couple of new infos from my own research.

                Maybe together we can manage to convince the publisher for the second edition.
                I wrote them several times since I think two years, but there wasn`t even a comment on this proposition.
                You would give a great help, if You write to the responsable person, whose mailadress You find on top.

                Surely it is also a fact of new investment. Therefore I also ask, if some of the readers are in the situation to support the project with a donation or participation. I am sure we/they will find a way to a satisfying solution for all sides.

                You are all part of the success we've had with the book, which is my first english one and which also wouldn`t have been done without the help of Steven Guth and of course with the knowledge and help of Donald Weiser and Nicolas Hays.

                What I am aiming for, is coming most near to the original version, show the modifications that are legitimated by the change of times and prove the historical evidence of the authorship.

                After all the Abramelin in which form ever, has become one of the most experienced books and topics. I am sure I can add "some more Cents" to that highlight of Western Culture.

                with all my best wishes to You
                Georg
              • Shaun
                The Golden Dawn text/manual first collated by Israel Regardie is going through its 7th update in order to add many of the new insights that have come to light
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 17, 2012

                  The Golden Dawn text/manual first collated by Israel Regardie is going through its 7th update in order to add many of the new insights that have come to light within that system over the years. While it seems that not long has passed since the Abramelin edition came out am sure that by the time things are ready there'll be much to include for people to want to purchase the new edition to sit alongside the old one.

                  Below is the email from John Michael Greer in regards to the new Golden Dawn Edition as I can't link it will have to paste it into the email:

                   Avete Fratres et Sorores!
                  >

                    I would like to pass on some important news to the membersof the Golden Dawn community, and to ask for the assistance of my fratres andsorores in a project that may make a positive difference for the future of ourcommon tradition. Llewellyn Publications, the copyright holders of IsraelRegardie's The Golden Dawn, has started the process of preparing a new, seventhedition of that deservedly famous book. As most of you are well aware, thecurrently available sixth edition has had more than its share of problems - anabundance of typos and other errors introduced during the process of scanningand editing the original text, some serious omissions of material, and more -and this came on top of a range of problems with the original text, some datingback to its writing and first publication, others introduced since then.
                  >

                    In order to fix these problems - and avoid adding any more!- the staff at Llewellyn decided to contract with a writer/editor who wasalready familiar with the tradition, rather than doing the editingin-house. When they offered me the contract, I accepted on the understanding thatI would be consulting with other practitioners of the tradition to make the newseventh edition the definitive version of this classic work. While I have beena student of the Golden Dawn work since 1976, I am well aware that there aremany others in the Golden Dawn community whose experience with the traditiongoes far beyond mine. Furthermore, beyond all questions of copyright law, TheGolden Dawn belongs in a very real sense to all those who have studied it,worked with it,and made the teachings of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawna central part of their lives; it seems to me that a project such as this wouldbest be done, not by an individual, but by the whole community. I wouldtherefore like to ask your help with this project.
                  >

                  > This is what I have in mind.

                  >

                    First and foremost, all the typos and errors introduced intothe text need to be located and fixed. There are a great many of them, and noone person's eyes are likely to spot them all. I would therefore like to askall those who are willing to do so, to list all the typos and errors they canfind, noting their location by page and line number.
                  >

                  Please use the sixth edition (the currently available largeblack paperback), since the electronic files of this edition are the rawmaterial I will be using as a starting point for the editorial work. The lists,and all other material,may be sent to the email address that follows.
                  >

                  Second, anything that was left out of the sixth editionneeds to be identified and replaced. This will require carefully comparing thetext, page by page, between the current edition and the older versions.
                  >

                  > Third, all passages in Hebrew, Greek, Coptic, and
                  Enochianneed to be checked for spelling and accuracy by people familiar with thoselanguages, and any necessary corrections made. All astrological, elemental,alchemical, and other symbols also have to be checked and, where necessary,corrected.

                  >

                  > Fourth, the stage directions in the rituals need to
                  bechecked by those who have experience performing them. There have been repeatedclaims that officers are put in the wrong places, change position withoutexplanation, and so on. All notes on staging the rituals therefore need to bereviewed and, where necessary, corrected.

                  >

                   Fifth, all the diagrams and images need to be gone overcarefully, all errors identified and all corrections indicated. This includeschecking and correcting the Hebrew and other non-English alphabets in thediagrams. Current plans are to have all the art from the book redone by acapable artist familiar with the tradition, so corrections here need to besuggested as soon as possible.
                  >

                  Sixth, I have been given a certain amount of 'wiggle room'to add new material to the book. I plan on doing so very sparingly - animproved and expanded index, and a briefly annotated bibliography of worthwhilebooks for students of the Golden Dawn tradition, are the two additions I haveprimarily in mind. Still, I would be willing to listen to proposals for theaddition of short essays in the text where that would be helpful to students.
                  >

                  Seventh, and most controversially, I would like to checkRegardie's text against copies of the original Golden Dawn rituals andknowledge lectures. I understand that many of those who have such copies keepthem tightly locked in their filing cabinets; still, to make this thedefinitive edition of The Golden Dawn, referring back to the original sourcematerial is an essential step. I would therefore like to ask members of thecommunity who have any of these documents to consider scanning or photocopyingthe material they have, and allowing me to use the copies as references in theeditorial process. Any materials so lent will remain unpublished, and I amentirely willing to abide by any restrictions on the use or distribution ofsuch documents as the lender may find necessary. The point of this request isnot to raid anybody's files; it is simply to make sure that, as far aspossible, the lectures and rituals in The Golden Dawn are an accurate copy ofthe material
                  originally circulated in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.
                  >

                  I am awarethat not everyone in the Golden Dawn community will be interested inparticipating in the revision process, and that not everyone who is interestedwill have the time to do so. Furthermore, I can offer in return only my ownheartfelt gratitude, and a published acknowledgment, in the seventh edition, toeach frater or soror, each temple, and each order that contributes to thiswork. That being said, I hope that as many of you as possible will be willingto help make the new seventh edition a milestone in the history of the GoldenDawn tradition. I have set up an email address specifically for this projectat gdrevision@...... - pleaseuse this for all correspondence related to the seventh edition. In terms of thetime frame for this project, I plan on beginning the editing process in Januaryof 2013, and the completed manuscript is due on the Spring Equinox of 2014.
                  >

                    Sub umbra alarum tuarum, YHVH --
                  >

                  >Frater GME (John Michael Greer)


                  Thank you for your replies Aaron and others, am very much excited and nervous about attempting the rite. Will have to spend a while beforehand looking for apartments suitable enough to settle down and work within, know that an East facing window will be clincher... will probably call estate agents and inform them of my luck in suffering from insommnia (perhaps also Claustrophobia) making a well lit east facing room with a window a must in any property rented with them. Will be trawling the topic list heavily over the next year or so.

                  Would suggest that a seperate email is sent in regards to the revision as most would not be aware of it otherwise and would like to thank Georg and his team for bringing the operation upto date in the first place, am a bit annoyed that I can't commit to it over the 6m version as I'd perfer a gradual unfolding over a highlander styled 'quickening' but there you go .lol.

                  Peace
                  /Shaun/

                • AaronL
                  In the end, it doesn t matter if you do the 6 month or 18 month version - you re going to do the same amount of work in the long run. Doing the 6 month
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 17, 2012
                    In the end, it doesn't matter if you do the 6 month or 18 month version - you're going to do the same amount of work in the long run. Doing the 6 month version, you'll just have more work to do on the other side. And even if you do the 18 month version, you'll STILL have years of work to do on the other side.

                    LVX
                    Aaron

                    --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Shaun <rebel_lion973@...> wrote:

                    > a bit annoyed that I can't commit to it over the 6m version as I'd
                    > perfer a gradual unfolding over a highlander styled 'quickening' but
                    > there you go .lol.
                    >
                    > Peace
                    > /Shaun/
                    >
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