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Re: couple of questions

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  • AaronL
    ... I assume from your question that you are confusing goetia with the book called The Goetia of Solomon. Goetia is a type of magick, and the Goetia of
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 16, 2011
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      --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Chad" <chadianmiller@...> wrote:
      >
      > A couple of questions for the group:
      >
      > 1) Has anyone correlated the Goetia with the Grimore of Abramelin? (interesting relationship in the numbers 72 & 18) I'm interested in actual methods of practice which combine these systems.
      >

      I assume from your question that you are confusing "goetia" with the book called "The Goetia of Solomon." Goetia is a type of magick, and the Goetia of Solomon is just one example of a book about goetic magick. Another example is the third book of Abramelin. Both of them are already goetia, so I don't see what use there would be in trying to combine the two books into a single system.

      > 2) Has anyone worked through the Abramelin system from a non J/C basis? Again, particulars of practice as far as pagan or wiccan approach to the operation would be helpful.
      >

      Whatever your religion happens to be, you continue to observe its rites and devotions as you would normally do. If that happens to be Wicca, then you continue to attend the Sabbats as usual (preferably all eight, but the major four shouldn't be missed in any case). Meanwhile, continue to follow the Abramelin instructions to the letter. There is no need to try and create a "hybrid" version of the system.

      LVX
      Aaron
    • Athena
      Agreed, I think changing the working around before you have even completed it is a VERY bad idea. The ego just getting in the way and trying to mess stuff up
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 16, 2011
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        Agreed, I think changing the working around before you have even completed it is a VERY bad idea.  The ego just getting in the way and trying to mess stuff up before it's even started....

        Now working with it from a Pagan perspective isn't changing anything around since the book states this is just fine.  I performed mine in this way since I was not raised in any particular religion.

        Athena
        --
        www.enochian.org

        On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 3:25 AM, AaronL <kheph777@...> wrote:
         

        --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Chad" <chadianmiller@...> wrote:
        >
        > A couple of questions for the group:
        >
        > 1) Has anyone correlated the Goetia with the Grimore of Abramelin? (interesting relationship in the numbers 72 & 18) I'm interested in actual methods of practice which combine these systems.
        >

        I assume from your question that you are confusing "goetia" with the book called "The Goetia of Solomon." Goetia is a type of magick, and the Goetia of Solomon is just one example of a book about goetic magick. Another example is the third book of Abramelin. Both of them are already goetia, so I don't see what use there would be in trying to combine the two books into a single system.


        > 2) Has anyone worked through the Abramelin system from a non J/C basis? Again, particulars of practice as far as pagan or wiccan approach to the operation would be helpful.
        >

        Whatever your religion happens to be, you continue to observe its rites and devotions as you would normally do. If that happens to be Wicca, then you continue to attend the Sabbats as usual (preferably all eight, but the major four shouldn't be missed in any case). Meanwhile, continue to follow the Abramelin instructions to the letter. There is no need to try and create a "hybrid" version of the system.

        LVX
        Aaron




        --

        Give a gift people will really remember this year, shop at www.enochian.org



        Odo cicle qaa
        --
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        "The exalted and powerful spirits serve only their confidants and intimate friends"



      • Chad
        Hi Aron, I am familiar with the meaning of the word goetia and was, in fact, refering to Book 1 of the Clavicula Solomonis, commonly refered to as Goetia. I
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 18, 2011
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          Hi Aron,

          I am familiar with the meaning of the word goetia and was, in fact, refering to Book 1 of the Clavicula Solomonis, commonly refered to as Goetia. I apologize for any confusion this caused you but I did not consider at the time I wrote this that a relatively straightforward question needing explanation.

          I am working on a theory which I care not to discuss openly at this time but which involves both books (Goetia & Abramelin). I was curious if anyone else had contemplated the interoperability of these systems or worked with them in some way.

          I have already completed the Operation - more than once. I performed the 6 month version almost 2 decades ago and the 18 month version two years ago. I have worked through Aleister Crowleys version of the rite and Michael W. Ford's version as well.

          There are many approaches to the Work and they ALL have results. You need not follow the Working "to the letter". You just need to believe. Magick is about belief, faith, will, and desire. It is the power of deity manifest within. We are each individually an expression of deity and capable of manifesting the very power of the universe.

          http://www.deitus.org

          --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "AaronL" <kheph777@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Chad" <chadianmiller@> wrote:
          > >
          > > A couple of questions for the group:
          > >
          > > 1) Has anyone correlated the Goetia with the Grimore of Abramelin? (interesting relationship in the numbers 72 & 18) I'm interested in actual methods of practice which combine these systems.
          > >
          >
          > I assume from your question that you are confusing "goetia" with the book called "The Goetia of Solomon." Goetia is a type of magick, and the Goetia of Solomon is just one example of a book about goetic magick. Another example is the third book of Abramelin. Both of them are already goetia, so I don't see what use there would be in trying to combine the two books into a single system.
          >
          > > 2) Has anyone worked through the Abramelin system from a non J/C basis? Again, particulars of practice as far as pagan or wiccan approach to the operation would be helpful.
          > >
          >
          > Whatever your religion happens to be, you continue to observe its rites and devotions as you would normally do. If that happens to be Wicca, then you continue to attend the Sabbats as usual (preferably all eight, but the major four shouldn't be missed in any case). Meanwhile, continue to follow the Abramelin instructions to the letter. There is no need to try and create a "hybrid" version of the system.
          >
          > LVX
          > Aaron
          >
        • Chad
          Athena, Assuming the ego does not get in the way, how EXACTLY do you perform the ritual from a pagan perspective? You are the only one I know of who has
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 18, 2011
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            Athena,

            Assuming the ego does not get in the way, how EXACTLY do you perform the ritual from a pagan perspective? You are the only one I know of who has claimed completing the operation as a pagan. I have always been curious about your approach to the orations and invocations.

            http://www.deitus.org


            --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Athena <oipteaapdoce@...> wrote:
            >
            > Agreed, I think changing the working around before you have even completed
            > it is a VERY bad idea. The ego just getting in the way and trying to mess
            > stuff up before it's even started....
            >
            > Now working with it from a Pagan perspective isn't changing anything around
            > since the book states this is just fine. I performed mine in this way since
            > I was not raised in any particular religion.
            >
            > Athena
            > --
            > www.enochian.org
            >
            > On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 3:25 AM, AaronL <kheph777@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "Chad" <chadianmiller@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > A couple of questions for the group:
            > > >
            > > > 1) Has anyone correlated the Goetia with the Grimore of Abramelin?
            > > (interesting relationship in the numbers 72 & 18) I'm interested in actual
            > > methods of practice which combine these systems.
            > > >
            > >
            > > I assume from your question that you are confusing "goetia" with the book
            > > called "The Goetia of Solomon." Goetia is a type of magick, and the Goetia
            > > of Solomon is just one example of a book about goetic magick. Another
            > > example is the third book of Abramelin. Both of them are already goetia, so
            > > I don't see what use there would be in trying to combine the two books into
            > > a single system.
            > >
            > >
            > > > 2) Has anyone worked through the Abramelin system from a non J/C basis?
            > > Again, particulars of practice as far as pagan or wiccan approach to the
            > > operation would be helpful.
            > > >
            > >
            > > Whatever your religion happens to be, you continue to observe its rites and
            > > devotions as you would normally do. If that happens to be Wicca, then you
            > > continue to attend the Sabbats as usual (preferably all eight, but the major
            > > four shouldn't be missed in any case). Meanwhile, continue to follow the
            > > Abramelin instructions to the letter. There is no need to try and create a
            > > "hybrid" version of the system.
            > >
            > > LVX
            > > Aaron
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > <http://www.facebook.com/pages/Morgans-Kidney/114852965237215?v=info>Give a
            > gift people will really remember this year, shop at www.enochian.org
            >
            >
            >
            > Odo cicle qaa
            > --
            > www.enochian.org
            >
            > "The exalted and powerful spirits serve only their confidants and intimate
            > friends"
            >
          • vhg666
            Chad, I know pagans feel even ofended just by the words Christian and such; so, why would I need to adapt a Santeria ritual to get my head spirit if I m
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 22, 2011
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              Chad,

              I know pagans feel even ofended just by the words "Christian" and such; so, why would I need to adapt a Santeria ritual to get my "head spirit" if I'm not a Santero?

              In the same way, why would you need to adapt Abramelin if you're not hermetic magician?

              It's incredible how westerns and pagans try to adapt things to their taste. In the African traditions, they do the rites as they are prescribed. I've never heard of a Hermetic magician trying to adapt a Palo Mayombe ritual.

              If you don't feel comfortable using the Abramelin as is, just don't do it.
            • Chad
              That is a good argument, probably the best that I have heard. Thanks for the words of wisdom.
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 24, 2011
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                That is a good argument, probably the best that I have heard. Thanks for the words of wisdom.

                --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "vhg666" <genghis_khan_v@...> wrote:
                >
                > Chad,
                >
                > I know pagans feel even ofended just by the words "Christian" and such; so, why would I need to adapt a Santeria ritual to get my "head spirit" if I'm not a Santero?
                >
                > In the same way, why would you need to adapt Abramelin if you're not hermetic magician?
                >
                > It's incredible how westerns and pagans try to adapt things to their taste. In the African traditions, they do the rites as they are prescribed. I've never heard of a Hermetic magician trying to adapt a Palo Mayombe ritual.
                >
                > If you don't feel comfortable using the Abramelin as is, just don't do it.
                >
              • Athena
                There are instructions right in the book about how a Pagan would go about the working :). Also, I think Abramelin sort of goes above and beyond specific
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 25, 2011
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                  There are instructions right in the book about how a Pagan would go about the working :).  Also, I think Abramelin sort of goes above and beyond specific religions really, however this is just my take.

                  Athena
                  --
                  www.enochian.org

                  On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:27 PM, vhg666 <genghis_khan_v@...> wrote:
                   

                  Chad,

                  I know pagans feel even ofended just by the words "Christian" and such; so, why would I need to adapt a Santeria ritual to get my "head spirit" if I'm not a Santero?

                  In the same way, why would you need to adapt Abramelin if you're not hermetic magician?

                  It's incredible how westerns and pagans try to adapt things to their taste. In the African traditions, they do the rites as they are prescribed. I've never heard of a Hermetic magician trying to adapt a Palo Mayombe ritual.

                  If you don't feel comfortable using the Abramelin as is, just don't do it.




                  --

                  Give a gift people will really remember this year, shop at www.enochian.org



                  Odo cicle qaa
                  --
                  www.enochian.org

                  "The exalted and powerful spirits serve only their confidants and intimate friends"



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