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Re: [abramelin] Re: the Kabbala difference?

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  • Adam Sod
    I thought he undertook the ritual 3 years AFTER he returned home. How was Abramelin correcting him during this time?   LVX, AdamSod72 ... From: AaronL
    Message 1 of 8 , May 13, 2011
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      I thought he undertook the ritual 3 years AFTER he returned home. How was Abramelin correcting him during this time?
       
      LVX,
      AdamSod72

      --- On Fri, 5/13/11, AaronL <kheph777@...> wrote:

      From: AaronL <kheph777@...>
      Subject: [abramelin] Re: the Kabbala difference?
      To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, May 13, 2011, 12:07 AM

       
      Oh - and, yes, I believe Abramelin was supposed to be a better Qabalist than Abraham, too. Doesn't the text describe Abramelin instructing and correcting Abraham's knowledge in the Qabalah during the time he performed the Abramelin Operation?

      LVX
      Aaron

      --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "yotamhadad" <yotamhadad@...> wrote:
      >
      > I started to read the Mathers translation, and maybe i skiped some parts but by chapter 4 Abraham met Abramelin, so there is not alot to read on his previous practices - mostly that it was useless.
      > And so i wonder... if overall all he learned it's from the Kabbala, then how abramelin found that knowledge Abraham's previous teachers couldn't find?
      > Did he have a better uderstanding in the Kabbala?
      > If overall it's from the Kabbala then why won't research it instead of the abramelin different books and translation?
      >

    • AaronL
      I assume you want me to explain why I see implications of Gnostic influence in the Book of Abramelin? The Holy Guardian Angel concept has obvious similarities
      Message 2 of 8 , May 13, 2011
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        I assume you want me to explain why I see implications of Gnostic influence in the Book of Abramelin?

        The Holy Guardian Angel concept has obvious similarities with the more ancient concept of the Patron God. However, there are also some key differences, which I attribute to the inclusion of Gnostic concepts (such as the Redeemer and the Logos) as well as the Jewish custom of invoking Metatron to instruct one in the Torah.

        I also find it interesting that both Abraham and Agrippa attribute the Holy Guardian Angel concept to "the Egyptians." (In the case of Abraham, the adept Abramelin himself representing "the Egyptians.") At the time, Egypt still enjoyed a reputation for magick, thanks largely to the various mystical sects that thrived there: from the authors of the PGM, to the Coptic Gnostics as well as the Essenes, Hermeticists, etc.

        I suspect that this implied link between the HGA and "the Egyptians" is in reference to the Gnostic-descended Redeemer and Logos aspects of the Angel. The references made in the text to the Jewish Qabalah also help link it to the Jewish (yet possibly Gnostic-influenced?) Metatron-as-teacher concept.

        LVX
        Aaron

        --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Adam Sod <adamsod72@...> wrote:
        >
        > Greetings.
        >  
        > Could you explain your comment?
        >  
        > LVX,
        > AdamSod72
        >
        > --- On Fri, 5/13/11, AaronL <kheph777@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > From: AaronL <kheph777@...>
        > Subject: [abramelin] Re: the Kabbala difference?
        > To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Friday, May 13, 2011, 12:05 AM
        >
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        > Greetings!
        >
        > I see a particularly Gnostic undercurrent to the Book of Abramelin. I have long suspected that Abramelin's Egyptian residence was supposed to indicate his connections to Gnostic or Greek proto-Gnostic sects (such as those that created the PGM).
        >
        > LVX
        > Aaron
        >
        > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "yotamhadad" <yotamhadad@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I started to read the Mathers translation, and maybe i skiped some parts but by chapter 4 Abraham met Abramelin, so there is not alot to read on his previous practices - mostly that it was useless.
        > > And so i wonder... if overall all he learned it's from the Kabbala, then how abramelin found that knowledge Abraham's previous teachers couldn't find?
        > > Did he have a better uderstanding in the Kabbala?
        > > If overall it's from the Kabbala then why won't research it instead of the abramelin different books and translation?
        > >
        >
      • AaronL
        I wasn t looking at the text at the time, so my details may have been off. I do remember that he spent time with Abramelin, during which he received
        Message 3 of 8 , May 13, 2011
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          I wasn't looking at the text at the time, so my details may have been off. I do remember that he spent time with Abramelin, during which he received instruction from the older man. I'm fairly certain I recall mention being made of Abramelin correcting Abraham on several points of the Qabalah. (I would, however, be recalling the French text.)

          LVX
          Aaron

          --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Adam Sod <adamsod72@...> wrote:
          >
          > I thought he undertook the ritual 3 years AFTER he returned home. How was Abramelin correcting him during this time?
          >  
          > LVX,
          > AdamSod72
          >
          > --- On Fri, 5/13/11, AaronL <kheph777@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: AaronL <kheph777@...>
          > Subject: [abramelin] Re: the Kabbala difference?
          > To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Friday, May 13, 2011, 12:07 AM
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > Oh - and, yes, I believe Abramelin was supposed to be a better Qabalist than Abraham, too. Doesn't the text describe Abramelin instructing and correcting Abraham's knowledge in the Qabalah during the time he performed the Abramelin Operation?
          >
          > LVX
          > Aaron
          >
          > --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, "yotamhadad" <yotamhadad@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I started to read the Mathers translation, and maybe i skiped some parts but by chapter 4 Abraham met Abramelin, so there is not alot to read on his previous practices - mostly that it was useless.
          > > And so i wonder... if overall all he learned it's from the Kabbala, then how abramelin found that knowledge Abraham's previous teachers couldn't find?
          > > Did he have a better uderstanding in the Kabbala?
          > > If overall it's from the Kabbala then why won't research it instead of the abramelin different books and translation?
          > >
          >
        • Adam Sod
          Hi Aaron. Sorry if my two emails sounded a little rude. I was busy at work, working while trying to take lunch and only had a few seconds to reply. I agree.
          Message 4 of 8 , May 13, 2011
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            Hi Aaron. Sorry if my two emails sounded a little rude. I was busy at work, working while trying to take lunch and only had a few seconds to reply.

            I agree. Abramelin did correct the errors in the Kabbalah that Abraham had learned previously.

            Thanks for the replies,
            AdamSod

            --- On Fri, 5/13/11, AaronL <kheph777@...> wrote:

            From: AaronL <kheph777@...>
            Subject: [abramelin] Re: the Kabbala difference?
            To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, May 13, 2011, 5:58 PM

             

            I wasn't looking at the text at the time, so my details may have been off. I do remember that he spent time with Abramelin, during which he received instruction from the older man. I'm fairly certain I recall mention being made of Abramelin correcting Abraham on several points of the Qabalah. (I would, however, be recalling the French text.)

            LVX
            Aaron

            --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Adam Sod <adamsod72@...> wrote:
            >
            > I thought he undertook the ritual 3 years AFTER he returned home. How was Abramelin correcting him during this time?
            >  
            > LVX,
            > AdamSod72



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