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Re: [abramelin] Sacrifices and Substitutions

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  • Athena
    Or Greens (the brand name) super awesome stuff. ... -- Odo cicle qaa -- www.enochian.org The exalted and powerful spirits serve only their confidants and
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 30, 2010
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      Or Greens (the brand name) super awesome stuff.

      On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 5:08 PM, <thoughtcomputer@...> wrote:
       

      Chlorella and Spirulina, which are algae and available over the web in tablet form are worth a look as they contain most of what we need.

      Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device


      From: Athena <oipteaapdoce@...>
      Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:56:03 -0700
      Subject: Re: [abramelin] Sacrifices and Substitutions

       

      The Abramelin says to be vegetarian, however it also says to not do the working if your health is not in good condition.  This is not popular opinion, but I'm sort of guessing you likely know your body better then the rest of us...  Also a naturopath might be able to help you out, they are less biased towards meat then doctors, but also have enough smarts to not be fanatic in recommending vegetarianism. 

      For those who I have known with the same problems, if they did take up vegetarianism, liquid vitamins at the very least were also needed.  Then there is the matter of amino acids. 

      I think during the rite someone can do one thing, like not be vegetarian OR one other cheat, but not more then one.  Also the absolutely worst thing you can do is decide on one diet when you start, then change that (unless changing to more strict) during the rite. 

      Athena
      --
      www.enochian.org

      On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Mykel O'Hara <mydako@...> wrote:
       

      >I suspect this because he did not (at least I
      >assume he did not) tell you *what* exactly your body was not getting from the
      >vegitarian diet. Instead, you got some vague nonsense about "some people" being
      >"designed to eat meat." That's doctor-ese for "I have no clue why this is
      >happening to you."


      I'm used to the "We have no clue why this is happening to you," I grew up to that song in the Hospital for Sick Children regarding abnormal stomach problems.  We've tried to figure out what I could be missing from meat, we went out of the way to make sure I was getting enough protein and iron (the big two), but neither of them helped.  Assuming that there isn't a reason to require meat itself, it does seem to be off the beaten path so to speak.  One would assume the meditation centre and temple, serving vegetarian food every day for several years (to many people who are vegetarian), would be serving properly balanced meals.  Also four of my six closest friends are vegetarians, and two of them tried making a meal plan for me, but after four-five days my body was...rebelling.


      I know Athena made mention of B12, I get some from supplement sources, but I'm not sure how much that it compared to what I need.  I'll check that out later.


      I think regardless of "necessity" for giving up something or not, I'll probably phase out junkfoods during the rite.  I've been reducing what I eat for the last year, but the Abramelin would give a good "excuse" to cut it out.

      Thanks for the input. 

       

       ~Gesigewigu's

       ~Mykel Timothy Gesigewigu's O'Hara





      To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
      From: oipteaapdoce@...
      Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:11:30 -0700
      Subject: Re: [abramelin] Sacrifices and Substitutions

       
      I don't think it's just about giving something up.  However giving up soda pop would be a good thing in regards to purification.  They didn't have such chemicals back then when the book was written, so who knows it may have been included if they had known lol.

      If you do decide to go vegetarian for the working you would definitely want to use iron and b12 injections instead (I'm assuming something such as anemia or blood problems if you need meat in your diet).  Also amino acids are important. 

      I believe Abramelin can be done on a low meat diet if needed, but the affects would be a bit less (lack of meat does increase psychic ability).  There are also other reasons, but I'm sick of being told my advice isn't good unless I spill sacred secrets.  I would however advise going with the organic sort of meat from a farmer perhaps if you can, or whole foods if you are in a large city :).

      Athena
      --
      www.enochian.org


      On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Mykel O'Hara <mydako@...> wrote:
       
      I know some people are already cringing from my title, but stick with me.

      Also, I'm writing this from University, so I don't have the book with me, so if I'm slightly off on points, it's because I don't have a prooftext on me.

      During the Abramelin ritual, among many other restrictions, the practitioner is required to give up alcohol and meat.  I have a problem with both of these sacrifices, different ones though.

      Regarding alcohol, for personal and semi-religious reasons, I already eschew the conscious use/imbibing of alcohol and intoxicants.
      Regarding meat, I can't really give it up.  When I do my temple retreats I'm required to be vegetarian because of a strict interpretation of sila, and that is only ten days to three weeks, and it takes about two weeks for my body to recover from that.  My doctor said that some people just seem to be more "designed" for processing/needing meat, but he doesn't think I should do prolonged periods of vegetarianism (such as the three week temple stay) because of what it does to my body. 

      Now, regarding the alcohol, I see two main purposes for giving it up.  This may be applying my interpretation, second-guessing the ritual as Aaron said to my prior question, but it is how I'm conceiving it.  One reason is alcohol is an intoxicant and that for a ritual experience like this you should be lucid, and avoid states where more delusional images/thoughts can enter in.  The second is simply the practice of disciplining and restricting yourself for a purpose shows devotion.  Now if it is only the first reason, there is no issue, but I think it is a bit of both, and possibly more.  But if that is the case, that in part giving up alcohol is a sign of devotion, and part of the practice of discipline, then I feel I should give up something else.

      Since I already avoid intoxicants, do others think nothing changes, or that it would be good for me to give something else up as well, and if so what?  Obviously the what is personal in the long run, but I'm just curious about other ideas.  So far the two ideas I come back to are either pop, or chocolate.  I don't eat/drink them in huge quantities (just as most people don't drink in huge quantities), but I do so with enough regularity that giving up either would be a noticeable difference and sacrifice inmy life.

      As for the meat, I feel since I can't become a vegetarian, I should again give up something.  Either another type of food, but I feel none would have the same importance in my life as meat, or types of meat.  I was thinking of switching to jhatka meat, which would disallow beef, and the meat I eat would have to be killed in a specific way.  Related to that I was thinking I could switch to the kosher dietary laws for the ritual, no pork, shellfish, blood and milk together, etc.  Kosher laws have less personal importance to me than jhatka restrictions, but it fits a bit better with the Jewish-style of the ritual.

      With both of these options, I was also thinking of restricting the amount of meat I eat, avoiding meat on Saturday at very least, Friday and Sunday too if possible.

      Anyways, any ideas, questions, feedback would be great.

      ~Gesigewigu's
       






      --
      Odo cicle qaa
      --
      www.enochian.org

      "When a thing is hidden away with so much pains, merely to repeal it is to destroy it." Tertullian




      --
      Odo cicle qaa
      --
      www.enochian.org

      "The exalted and powerful spirits serve only their confidants and intimate friends"




      --
      Odo cicle qaa
      --
      www.enochian.org

      "The exalted and powerful spirits serve only their confidants and intimate friends"

    • AaronL
      Greetings! Yes, even as I posted my last reply to you I realized that you re obviously connected into a community that knows very well how to properly fast and
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 3 11:00 PM
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        Greetings!

        Yes, even as I posted my last reply to you I realized that you're obviously connected into a community that knows very well how to properly fast and eat vegitarian, etc.

        I have to admit I'm at a loss on this one. I can't imagine what it is your body is protesting. It is certainly not uncommon to feel sick after going veg (either for the first time or after a long hiatus), as your increased metabolism begins to eleminate the toxins in your system. If that is what you are experiencing, I'd say to just persevere and your body will finally pass the toxins and your metabolism will settle into its new (higher) state. However, if you're experiencing something worse, I couldn't even offer advice beyond telling you to seek a medical specialist... :/

        As for Abramelin - this is a tough one. Not consuming the flesh of anything that had to be killed is a pretty big one, and I hate to say it can be dispensed with. On the other hand, if this is a real infirmity for you, then the system should be able to allow for it.

        Perhaps, before beginning Abramelin, you should experiment. Find out (if you don't already know) exactly how much meat you HAVE to have, and also what kind (beef, fish, pork). Then you can perhaps simply eat a bare minimum of meat one day a week during the process.

        LVX
        Aaron

        --- In abramelin@yahoogroups.com, Mykel O'Hara <mydako@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > >I suspect this because he did not (at
        > least I
        >
        > >assume he did not) tell you *what* exactly your body was not getting from the
        >
        > >vegitarian diet. Instead, you got some vague nonsense about "some
        > people" being
        >
        > >"designed to eat meat." That's doctor-ese for "I have no clue
        > why this is
        >
        > >happening to you."
        > I'm used to the "We have no clue why this is happening to you," I grew up to that song in the Hospital for Sick Children regarding abnormal stomach problems. We've tried to figure out what I could be missing from meat, we went out of the way to make sure I was getting enough protein and iron (the big two), but neither of them helped. Assuming that there isn't a reason to require meat itself, it does seem to be off the beaten path so to speak. One would assume the meditation centre and temple, serving vegetarian food every day for several years (to many people who are vegetarian), would be serving properly balanced meals. Also four of my six closest friends are vegetarians, and two of them tried making a meal plan for me, but after four-five days my body was...rebelling.
        > I know Athena made mention of B12, I get some from supplement sources, but I'm not sure how much that it compared to what I need. I'll check that out later.
        >
        > I think regardless of "necessity" for giving up something or not, I'll probably phase out junkfoods during the rite. I've been reducing what I eat for the last year, but the Abramelin would give a good "excuse" to cut it out.
        >
        > Thanks for the input.
        >
        >
        >
        > ~Gesigewigu's
        >
        > ~Mykel Timothy Gesigewigu's O'Hara
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To: abramelin@yahoogroups.com
        > From: oipteaapdoce@...
        > Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 14:11:30 -0700
        > Subject: Re: [abramelin] Sacrifices and Substitutions
        >
        >
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        > I don't think it's just about giving something up. However giving up soda pop would be a good thing in regards to purification. They didn't have such chemicals back then when the book was written, so who knows it may have been included if they had known lol.
        >
        >
        >
        > If you do decide to go vegetarian for the working you would definitely want to use iron and b12 injections instead (I'm assuming something such as anemia or blood problems if you need meat in your diet). Also amino acids are important.
        >
        >
        >
        > I believe Abramelin can be done on a low meat diet if needed, but the affects would be a bit less (lack of meat does increase psychic ability). There are also other reasons, but I'm sick of being told my advice isn't good unless I spill sacred secrets. I would however advise going with the organic sort of meat from a farmer perhaps if you can, or whole foods if you are in a large city :).
        >
        >
        >
        > Athena
        > --
        > www.enochian.org
        >
        >
        > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Mykel O'Hara <mydako@...> wrote:
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        > I know some people are already cringing from my title, but stick with me.
        >
        > Also, I'm writing this from University, so I don't have the book with me, so if I'm slightly off on points, it's because I don't have a prooftext on me.
        >
        >
        >
        > During the Abramelin ritual, among many other restrictions, the practitioner is required to give up alcohol and meat. I have a problem with both of these sacrifices, different ones though.
        >
        > Regarding alcohol, for personal and semi-religious reasons, I already eschew the conscious use/imbibing of alcohol and intoxicants.
        >
        >
        > Regarding meat, I can't really give it up. When I do my temple retreats I'm required to be vegetarian because of a strict interpretation of sila, and that is only ten days to three weeks, and it takes about two weeks for my body to recover from that. My doctor said that some people just seem to be more "designed" for processing/needing meat, but he doesn't think I should do prolonged periods of vegetarianism (such as the three week temple stay) because of what it does to my body.
        >
        >
        >
        > Now, regarding the alcohol, I see two main purposes for giving it up. This may be applying my interpretation, second-guessing the ritual as Aaron said to my prior question, but it is how I'm conceiving it. One reason is alcohol is an intoxicant and that for a ritual experience like this you should be lucid, and avoid states where more delusional images/thoughts can enter in. The second is simply the practice of disciplining and restricting yourself for a purpose shows devotion. Now if it is only the first reason, there is no issue, but I think it is a bit of both, and possibly more. But if that is the case, that in part giving up alcohol is a sign of devotion, and part of the practice of discipline, then I feel I should give up something else.
        >
        >
        >
        > Since I already avoid intoxicants, do others think nothing changes, or that it would be good for me to give something else up as well, and if so what? Obviously the what is personal in the long run, but I'm just curious about other ideas. So far the two ideas I come back to are either pop, or chocolate. I don't eat/drink them in huge quantities (just as most people don't drink in huge quantities), but I do so with enough regularity that giving up either would be a noticeable difference and sacrifice inmy life.
        >
        >
        >
        > As for the meat, I feel since I can't become a vegetarian, I should again give up something. Either another type of food, but I feel none would have the same importance in my life as meat, or types of meat. I was thinking of switching to jhatka meat, which would disallow beef, and the meat I eat would have to be killed in a specific way. Related to that I was thinking I could switch to the kosher dietary laws for the ritual, no pork, shellfish, blood and milk together, etc. Kosher laws have less personal importance to me than jhatka restrictions, but it fits a bit better with the Jewish-style of the ritual.
        >
        >
        >
        > With both of these options, I was also thinking of restricting the amount of meat I eat, avoiding meat on Saturday at very least, Friday and Sunday too if possible.
        >
        > Anyways, any ideas, questions, feedback would be great.
        >
        >
        >
        > ~Gesigewigu's
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        > --
        > Odo cicle qaa
        > --
        > www.enochian.org
        >
        > "When a thing is hidden away with so much pains, merely to repeal it is to destroy it." Tertullian
        >
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