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staff direction on bemaed quavers

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  • hippostech
    Hi folks, I have two questions relating to abcmp2 s choice of stem direction for beamed questions: Q1. I notice that if I write two consecutive - but not
    Message 1 of 21 , Nov 21
      Hi folks,

      I have two questions relating to abcmp2's choice of stem direction for beamed questions:

      Q1. I notice that if I write two consecutive - but not joined - groups of three beamed quavers, e.g.   ...


      X:1

      K:C

      M:6/8

      L:1/8

      B,,B,,B,, F,F,F,|


      .. the second group seems to inherit the stem direction of the first.

      Is this a bug or a feature?


      This is important to me because I sometimes (like now for example!) write parts for two timpani and like to make the stem direction agree with the instrument: stem down = 26", stem up = 29". Often this is just a nicety, but sometimes when quick dynamic retuning is needed, it really helps the player to get it right.


      Very often, the default positioning matches this scheme automatically, except for beamed quavers as noted above.


      Sometimes, however, I want to show that e.g. B,, [flat] is to be played on the 26". I can enforce such behaviour with ABC code like...

      |[I:pos stem down]B,,B,,B,, B,,B,,B,,[I:pos stem auto]|

      ... but this can get rather long-winded, which brings me to my second question:


      Q:2 Is there a way to abbreviate sequences like [I:pos stem down] to a single character?

      I don't think I can do this kind of thing with the 'U:' command which seems to be limited to decorations...

      The map command might provide a more elegant and a bit less long-winded solution but its scope doesn't extend to head directions as far as I can see.


      Any ideas?


      Thanks for your attention,

      Larry Myerscough



    • Jean-Francois Moine
      On 21 Nov 2017 10:27:58 +0000 ... Yes, this is a bug. It has been fixed by the commit 755805f. I will soon do a new release. ... This is not possible with
      Message 2 of 21 , Nov 21
        On 21 Nov 2017 10:27:58 +0000
        "hippos@... [abcusers]" <abcusers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        > Q1. I notice that if I write two consecutive - but not joined - groups of three beamed quavers, e.g. ...
        >
        >
        > X:1
        > K:C
        > M:6/8
        > L:1/8
        > B,,B,,B,, F,F,F,|
        >
        >
        > .. the second group seems to inherit the stem direction of the first.
        > Is this a bug or a feature?

        Yes, this is a bug. It has been fixed by the commit 755805f.
        I will soon do a new release.

        > Q:2 Is there a way to abbreviate sequences like [I:pos stem down] to a single character?

        This is not possible with abcm2ps, but possible with macros in abc2svg:

        %%writefields m 1
        m:`=[I:pos stem down]
        m:@=[I:pos stem auto]
        X:1
        K:C
        M:6/8
        L:1/8
        `B,,B,,B,, F,F,F,|@B,,B,,B,, F,F,F,|

        --
        Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! **
        Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/
      • hippostech
        re Q1: Thanks Jef for the rapid bug fix! re Q2: Hmmm... I ve been ignoring developments on abcm2svg, largely because my use of abcm2ps underneath a GUI
        Message 3 of 21 , Nov 21
          re Q1:
          Thanks Jef for the rapid bug fix!

          re Q2:
          Hmmm...
          I've been ignoring developments on abcm2svg, largely because my use of abcm2ps 'underneath' a GUI worked so well, largely owing to abcm2ps being lightning fast even on modestly powered computers. But I had perceived an implicit migration trajectory toward abcm2svg in some quarters!
          But if abcm2svg has a macro facility (which of course abcm2ps's 'U:'  isn't really!)....
          I'll take another look at abcm2svg and try to keep an open mind, even if I see words like 'java'...

          Thanks again,
          Larry
        • stevewest_bluewaveband
          Larry s mention of the implicit migration trajectory to abc2svg very nicely expresses one of my dilemmas. I feel I ought to be trying to move from abcm2ps to
          Message 4 of 21 , Nov 21
            Larry's mention of the "implicit migration trajectory" to abc2svg very nicely expresses one of my dilemmas. I feel I ought to be trying to move from abcm2ps to the more forward-looking svg version, but I have never worked out how to produce pdf files from the svg output.

            I do quite a lot of music in the form of a score with partbooks for individual players. An example is my edition of the Michael East fantasies on IMSPL ( see http://imslp.org/wiki/Fantasias_for_5_Viols_(East,_Michael) ). Here, the partbooks are about 17 A4 pages and the full score is over 50 pages. Is there a way of producing this kind of output from svg images? I'd be very interested other people's experience.

            Cheers

            Steve
          • hippostech
            re: Q1 I confirm this fixes the beaming problem. I am now geared up to your git repository so will now be able to take full advantage of your fantastic habit
            Message 5 of 21 , Nov 21
              re: Q1
              I confirm this fixes the beaming problem. I am now geared up to your git repository so will now be able to take full advantage of your fantastic habit of fixing bugs just before I find them!

              re: Q2
              I'm not sure how responsive abcm2svg would be when editing big scores (25+ voices); perhaps I should put my prejudice aside and give it try. For today, I'll just put up with the limitations of abcm2ps.
            • Guido Gonzato
              Il 21/11/2017 11:58, Jean-Francois Moine moinejf@free.fr [abcusers] ha scritto:   This is not possible with abcm2ps, but possible with macros in abc2svg:
              Message 6 of 21 , Nov 21
                Il 21/11/2017 11:58, Jean-Francois Moine moinejf@... [abcusers] ha scritto:
                 

                This is not possible with abcm2ps, but possible with macros in abc2svg:

                %%writefields m 1
                m:`=[I:pos stem down]
                m:@=[I:pos stem auto]
                X:1
                K:C
                M:6/8
                L:1/8
                `B,,B,,B,, F,F,F,|@B,,B,,B,, F,F,F,|


                oh dear, a hidden gem! I didn't know that m: fields were available in abc2svg.

                Have you planned to add it in abcm2ps, too?

                Thanks a lot, this is quite a useful feature.

                Guido =8-)

                -- 
                Guido Gonzato, PhD <guido.gonzato at gmail.com>
                Geologist, GNU/Linux sysadmin. Rationalist.
                  "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
                      -- Derek Bok
                
              • Jean-Francois Moine
                On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:00:33 +0100 ... In abc2svg, m: has been added in April 2017 (and fixed in August!), mainly for playing. Using it for typesetting was
                Message 7 of 21 , Nov 21
                  On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:00:33 +0100
                  "Guido Gonzato guido.gonzato@... [abcusers]" <abcusers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  > oh dear, a hidden gem! I didn't know that m: fields were available in abc2svg.
                  >
                  > Have you planned to add it in abcm2ps, too?

                  In abc2svg, 'm:' has been added in April 2017 (and fixed in August!),
                  mainly for playing. Using it for typesetting was easy.
                  But, sorry, Guido, I will not add it in abcm2ps.

                  --
                  Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! **
                  Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/
                • Jean-Francois Moine
                  On 21 Nov 2017 13:21:09 +0000 ... It seems people see abc2svg only in its editor example. For big scores/books, it is easier to use a standard text editor and:
                  Message 8 of 21 , Nov 21
                    On 21 Nov 2017 13:21:09 +0000
                    "hippos@... [abcusers]" <abcusers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    > re: Q2
                    > I'm not sure how responsive abcm2svg would be when editing big scores (25+ voices); perhaps I should put my prejudice aside and give it try. For today, I'll just put up with the limitations of abcm2ps.

                    It seems people see abc2svg only in its editor example.
                    For big scores/books, it is easier to use a standard text editor and:
                    - either generate xhtml files from raw ABC using a batch (command line)
                    abc2svg script, as this is done with abcm2ps,
                    - or insert ABC in xhtml documents with abc2svg as the music rendering
                    engine (abc2svg-1.js + abcemb-1.js).
                    In either cases, the translation xhtml+svg to pdf (or other format,
                    or direct print) is simply done by the command 'Print' of the web
                    browsers.

                    --
                    Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! **
                    Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/
                  • Hudson Flavio Meneses Lacerda
                    ... I see that running abc2svg from command line is fast, but for large tune books (dozens of pieces), web browsers take very long to render the images -- if
                    Message 9 of 21 , Nov 21
                      Jean-Francois Moine moinejf@... [abcusers] wrote:
                      > On 21 Nov 2017 13:21:09 +0000
                      > "hippos@... [abcusers]"<abcusers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                      >
                      >> re: Q2
                      >> I'm not sure how responsive abcm2svg would be when editing big scores (25+ voices); perhaps I should put my prejudice aside and give it try. For today, I'll just put up with the limitations of abcm2ps.
                      >
                      > It seems people see abc2svg only in its editor example.
                      > For big scores/books, it is easier to use a standard text editor and:
                      > - either generate xhtml files from raw ABC using a batch (command line)
                      > abc2svg script, as this is done with abcm2ps,
                      > - or insert ABC in xhtml documents with abc2svg as the music rendering
                      > engine (abc2svg-1.js + abcemb-1.js).
                      > In either cases, the translation xhtml+svg to pdf (or other format,
                      > or direct print) is simply done by the command 'Print' of the web
                      > browsers.
                      >

                      I see that running abc2svg from command line is fast, but for large tune
                      books (dozens of pieces), web browsers take very long to render the
                      images -- if they can render the images at all. Page setup is also an issue.

                      --
                      Hudson Lacerda - https://www.hudsonlacerda.com
                      --

                      - Venha para a Diaspora* - uma rede social livre e descentralizada
                      https://diasporafoundation.org
                      https://diasporabr.com.br

                      - Como vendemos nossas almas --e mais-- aos gigantes da internet
                      https://amusicadehudsonlacerda.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/como-vendemos-nossas-almas-e-mais-aos-gigantes-da-internet-bruce-schneier/



                      OPORTUNIDADE DE TRABALHO ESCRAVO!
                      http://www.viomundo.com.br/denuncias/no-ar-a-propaganda-enganosa-do-trabalho-intermitente-e-escravidao.html
                      ---
                      Kapitalismus Über Demokratie - capitalismo acima da democracia esfola o
                      trabalhador
                      http://www.viomundo.com.br/voce-escreve/capitalismo-acima-da-democracia-esfola-o-trabalhador.html


                      «O golpe é contra o povo e contra a Nação. O golpe é misógino. O golpe é
                      homofóbico. O golpe é racista. É a imposição da cultura da intolerância,
                      do preconceito, da violência.» (Dilma Rousseff)

                      «The empowerment of the nation's most corrupt politicians was a key
                      feature, not a bug, of Dilma's impeachment.» (Glenn Greenwald)
                    • stevewest_bluewaveband
                      ... Hi Jef I ve been experimenting a bit with this, using existing abc files. Should all the abcm2ps formatting commands work the same (eg margins, topspace,
                      Message 10 of 21 , Nov 21
                        Jean-Francois Moine wrote:

                        > In either cases, the translation xhtml+svg to pdf (or other format,
                        > or direct print) is simply done by the command 'Print' of the web
                        > browsers.

                        Jean-Francois Moine wrote:

                        > In either cases, the translation xhtml+svg to pdf (or other format,
                        > or direct print) is simply done by the command 'Print' of the web
                        > browsers.

                        Hi Jef

                        I've been experimenting a bit with this, using existing abc files. Should all the abcm2ps formatting commands work the same (eg margins, topspace, scale. etc)? At the moment I'm ending up with pdfs that look very different from the abcm2ps ones, with page breaks coming in all the wrong places.

                        Also, one of the files I've been testing is a set of parts for different instruments. The start of the abc file includes a footer definition containing '$IP', so it should print the appropriate part name in every footer. What seems to happen currently is that all the parts have the same footer as the first tune. Is this a bug, or should I be doing it differently?

                        Thanks

                        Steve
                      • Jean-Francois Moine
                        On 21 Nov 2017 17:19:30 +0000 ... Hi Steve, Well, abc2svg does only the SVG generation. For that, it needs the page width and scale (%%pagescale is the real
                        Message 11 of 21 , Nov 21
                          On 21 Nov 2017 17:19:30 +0000
                          "steve.m.west@... [abcusers]" <abcusers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          > I've been experimenting a bit with this, using existing abc files. Should all the abcm2ps formatting commands work the same (eg margins, topspace, scale. etc)? At the moment I'm ending up with pdfs that look very different from the abcm2ps ones, with page breaks coming in all the wrong places.
                          >
                          > Also, one of the files I've been testing is a set of parts for different instruments. The start of the abc file includes a footer definition containing '$IP', so it should print the appropriate part name in every footer. What seems to happen currently is that all the parts have the same footer as the first tune. Is this a bug, or should I be doing it differently?

                          Hi Steve,

                          Well, abc2svg does only the SVG generation. For that, it needs the page
                          width and scale (%%pagescale is the real page scale, defaulting to 1).
                          These images are put one after each other for display in web browsers.

                          Actually, in the batch tools and in the editor, I let the browsers to
                          do the page formatting. The only parameters I can give for printing are
                          the top and bottom margins, and the headers and footers. As these
                          parameters are for the whole document, they are the same on each page.

                          You may say I could do the same as abcm2ps, i.e. generate SVG images
                          for the headers and footers at the right places, but abc2svg now
                          accepts the insertion of markup languages (see
                          http://moinejf.free.fr/abcm2ps-doc/beginml.xhtml), so the computation
                          of the page breaks is quite impossible!

                          As the work about page formatting in (X)HTML by the W3C is stopped, the
                          normal way for printing would be to use XML + XSLT. But this asks to
                          use heavy tools written in Java (XSL_FO)...

                          Otherwise, what about a document editor (libreoffice)?

                          --
                          Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! **
                          Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/
                        • S. Wascher
                          Hello, ... the grace of abcm2ps is exactly that: a 60 pages 300 Tunes tunebook can be fixed within one Program. No need to import pictures into a text editor
                          Message 12 of 21 , Nov 21
                            Hello,

                            Am 21.11.2017 um 20:14 schrieb Jean-Francois Moine moinejf@... [abcusers] <abcusers@yahoogroups.com>:
                            > As the work about page formatting in (X)HTML by the W3C is stopped, the
                            > normal way for printing would be to use XML + XSLT. But this asks to
                            > use heavy tools written in Java (XSL_FO)...
                            >
                            > Otherwise, what about a document editor (libreoffice)?

                            the grace of abcm2ps is exactly that: a 60 pages 300 Tunes tunebook can be fixed within one Program. No need to import pictures into a text editor which is hell if one does not have the programs by hand a graphic designer uses. And - even with these graphic designer tools its still nasty work as one has to reimport actualised pictures into the program.

                            Creating a 300-picture-book - and that it would be - in something like Libreoffice is a nightmare.

                            Thanks,

                            Simon
                          • stevewest_bluewaveband
                            ... Exactly! The problem is that Jef has provided us such a fantastic piece of software with abcm2ps that it makes anything else (even abc2svg) look like hard
                            Message 13 of 21 , Nov 22
                              S. Wascher wrote:

                              > the grace of abcm2ps is exactly that: a 60 pages 300 Tunes tunebook can be fixed
                              > within one Program. No need to import pictures into a text editor which is hell
                              > if one does not have the programs by hand a graphic designer uses. And - even with
                              > these graphic designer tools its still nasty work as one has to reimport actualised
                              > pictures into the program.

                              Exactly! The problem is that Jef has provided us such a fantastic piece of software with abcm2ps that it makes anything else (even abc2svg) look like hard work. The fact that I can take an abc file and, with one command, produce a nicely formatted 50-page book of music is amazing.

                              Increasingly, I have noticed that people's perception of the difficult of playing a piece of music is highly dependent on the way the editor has laid it out on the printed page. So, whereas I used to accept most of the abcm2ps defaults, I now take a lot of trouble over adjusting the formatting parameters to try to get the music as clearly and elegantly laid out on the page as I can. This includes things like:

                              - ensuring that abcm2ps hasn't introduced a line break in the middle of a bar (which does happen sometimes);
                              - making the whole scale quite generously sized (particularly for players of bowed instruments who need a largish bowing space between them and their music stand);
                              - getting page turns in convenient places;
                              - avoiding bars that look unduly stretched or squashed;
                              - preferably fitting the music on exactly one or exactly 2 A4 sheets;
                              - and so on.

                              I generally make a lot of iterations of the final layout, each time making small adjustments to %%scale, %%maxshrink, %%notespacingfactor, %%maxstaffsep, etc, and can, within a few seconds, see a postscript rendition of the new version.

                              So, Jef, please don't give up on supporting abcm2ps in the near future!

                              Cheers

                              Steve
                            • Guido Gonzato
                              Il 21/11/2017 15:42, Jean-Francois Moine moinejf@free.fr [abcusers] ha scritto:   On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:00:33 +0100 Guido Gonzato guido.gonzato@gmail.com
                              Message 14 of 21 , Nov 22
                                Il 21/11/2017 15:42, Jean-Francois Moine moinejf@... [abcusers] ha scritto:
                                 

                                On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 15:00:33 +0100
                                "Guido Gonzato guido.gonzato@... [abcusers]" <abcusers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                > oh dear, a hidden gem! I didn't know that m: fields were available in abc2svg.
                                >
                                > Have you planned to add it in abcm2ps, too?

                                In abc2svg, 'm:' has been added in April 2017 (and fixed in August!),
                                mainly for playing. Using it for typesetting was easy.
                                But, sorry, Guido, I will not add it in abcm2ps.


                                no problem, Jef, abc2svg is fine. More that just fine, actually!
                                Guido =8-)

                                -- 
                                Guido Gonzato, PhD <guido.gonzato at gmail.com>
                                Geologist, GNU/Linux sysadmin. Rationalist.
                                  "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
                                      -- Derek Bok
                                
                              • Chuck Boody
                                Steve’s point is well taken and I agree with it. Display of web pages is certainly useful and may be the way of the future, but in many cases the current
                                Message 15 of 21 , Nov 22
                                  Steve’s point is well taken and I agree with it.  Display of web pages is certainly useful and may be the way of the future, but in many cases the current situation demands printed materials.  

                                  I’m more than aware of the huge effort Jef has made in developing abcm2ps into the well thought out "lingua franca" that drives most abc to notation efforts.  I’m also aware how tiresome endless tweaking of a developed program can be, particularly when compared to the joy of doing something new.  And I’m aware that by developing abc2svg Jef has doubled the support effort and so must make decisions about how to spend his time. 

                                  Despite all of that I implore Jef to not abandon abcm2ps development and support. It means so much to so many of us that rely upon it.

                                  Chuck Boody

                                  On Nov 22, 2017, at 3:30 AM, steve.m.west@... [abcusers] <abcusers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                  S. Wascher wrote:

                                  > the grace of abcm2ps is exactly that: a 60 pages 300 Tunes tunebook can be fixed
                                  > within one Program. No need to import pictures into a text editor which is hell
                                  > if one does not have the programs by hand a graphic designer uses. And - even with
                                  > these graphic designer tools its still nasty work as one has to reimport actualised
                                  > pictures into the program.

                                  Exactly! The problem is that Jef has provided us such a fantastic piece of software with abcm2ps that it makes anything else (even abc2svg) look like hard work. The fact that I can take an abc file and, with one command, produce a nicely formatted 50-page book of music is amazing.

                                  Increasingly, I have noticed that people's perception of the difficult of playing a piece of music is highly dependent on the way the editor has laid it out on the printed page. So, whereas I used to accept most of the abcm2ps defaults, I now take a lot of trouble over adjusting the formatting parameters to try to get the music as clearly and elegantly laid out on the page as I can. This includes things like:

                                  - ensuring that abcm2ps hasn't introduced a line break in the middle of a bar (which does happen sometimes);
                                  - making the whole scale quite generously sized (particularly for players of bowed instruments who need a largish bowing space between them and their music stand);
                                  - getting page turns in convenient places;
                                  - avoiding bars that look unduly stretched or squashed;
                                  - preferably fitting the music on exactly one or exactly 2 A4 sheets;
                                  - and so on.

                                  I generally make a lot of iterations of the final layout, each time making small adjustments to %%scale, %%maxshrink, %%notespacingfactor, %%maxstaffsep, etc, and can, within a few seconds, see a postscript rendition of the new version.

                                  So, Jef, please don't give up on supporting abcm2ps in the near future!

                                  Cheers

                                  Steve
                                • reinier.maliepaard
                                  Hello, I totally agree...I wrote Jef already: I hope you ll continue developing abcm2ps because 1. in abcm2ps, page setup is without problems 2. abcm2ps
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Nov 22
                                    Hello,

                                    I totally agree...I wrote Jef already: "I hope you'll continue developing abcm2ps"

                                    because

                                    1. in abcm2ps, page setup is without problems
                                    2. abcm2ps processes (big) abc-files very fast

                                    Again: thanks Jef for all your work!

                                    Reinier Maliepaard
                                    www.mcmusiceditor.com
                                  • Jean-Francois Moine
                                    On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 10:36:13 -0600 ... Hi everybody, Many thanks to all of you for your interest in abcm2ps. As you might see, I continue to maintain it, but,
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Nov 22
                                      On Wed, 22 Nov 2017 10:36:13 -0600
                                      "Chuck Boody cboody@... [abcusers]" <abcusers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                      > Despite all of that I implore Jef to not abandon abcm2ps development and support. It means so much to so many of us that rely upon it.

                                      Hi everybody,

                                      Many thanks to all of you for your interest in abcm2ps.

                                      As you might see, I continue to maintain it, but, sorry, I will not go
                                      further for many reasons:
                                      - PostScript is an old language and it does not support unicode (and
                                      same for PDF!)
                                      - abcm2ps is written in 'C', and this asks for a compilation for each
                                      machine type (32/64bits, x86/ARM/..) and system (M$-windows, MAC-OS,
                                      Android, Unixes...)
                                      - the code is old (almost 20 years) and it becomes harder and harder
                                      to add new features.
                                      But, anyway, now that the code is on GitHub, anybody may have a look
                                      at the source and propose any enhancement. I'm still there to help.

                                      On the other side, from your last messages, I know better what you
                                      expect from a ABC typesetting program:
                                      1- it must be fast enough,
                                      2- it must be able to generate huge documents,
                                      3- it must be able to do page formatting.

                                      I think that 1) is not a real problem with the computers being more
                                      and more powerful.

                                      About 2), I was horrified to get a almost 2Mb file, with 300 tunes
                                      inside, from a user who was telling me he had stack overflows when
                                      converting the Out.ps into PDF with ghostscript. For big books,
                                      I think it is simpler to have small files, each one giving one output,
                                      and to concatenate them when it is time to print. Only the page
                                      numbers have to be updated.

                                      3) is the weak side of abc2svg. I am looking towards 'abiword' which
                                      accepts many input and output formats. It is lightweight enough
                                      (in my machine, it is 15 Mb while ghostscript is 45Mb), it has batch
                                      processing functions for concatenation and format conversion, and it
                                      is available in many machine types and systems.
                                      Its biggest advantage is its native format, ABW, which is understood
                                      by many word processors, and which is XML based. The idea is to let the
                                      abc2svg batch scripts generate ABW+SVG instead of XHTML+SVG...

                                      --
                                      Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! **
                                      Jef | http://moinejf.free.fr/
                                    • S. Wascher
                                      Hello, ... my learned profession is graphic designer. When layouting a text-based book, or whatever it may be, tweaking around with formatting parameters is a
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Nov 23
                                        Hello,

                                        Am 22.11.2017 um 20:22 schrieb Jean-Francois Moine moinejf@... [abcusers] <abcusers@yahoogroups.com>:
                                        > For big books,
                                        > I think it is simpler to have small files, each one giving one output,
                                        > and to concatenate them when it is time to print. Only the page
                                        > numbers have to be updated.

                                        my learned profession is graphic designer. When layouting a text-based book, or whatever it may be, tweaking around with formatting parameters is a major method. One adjusts and readjusts letter design, letter size, letterspacing, word spacing, line spacing, paragraph spacing, white space etc., till finally a good balance between readability, look, document extent etc. is found.

                                        abcm2ps allows to do the same with music books. It is somehow a design tool for music books. For me and many others abcm2ps is the program of choisse not just because of its ability to transform symbolic music notation into black dot pictures (all ordinary music programs can do that) but mainly because of its abilities as global layout program.

                                        What would be needed to make abc2svg an alternative to it would be a tool that is able to do exactly that: automatically concatenate a large number of small files every time it is desired to have a look at the whole product. That is not only at the moment of printing but at any time durduring the whole process of designing a music book. Concatenating a large number of music files and viewing the whole entity as pdf easily during the design process is a major advantage of abcm2ps over even programs like Finale or Sibelius.

                                        Thanks,

                                        Simon
                                      • Guido Gonzato
                                        Jef: - PostScript is an old language and it does not support unicode (and same for PDF!) - abcm2ps is written in C , and this asks for a compilation for each
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Nov 23
                                          Jef:

                                          - PostScript is an old language and it does not support unicode (and
                                          same for PDF!)
                                          - abcm2ps is written in 'C', and this asks for a compilation for each
                                          machine type (32/64bits, x86/ARM/..) and system (M$-windows, MAC-OS,
                                          Android, Unixes...)
                                          - the code is old (almost 20 years) and it becomes harder and harder
                                          to add new features.

                                          Simon:

                                          Concatenating a large number of music files and viewing the whole entity as
                                          pdf easily during the design process is a major advantage of abcm2ps over
                                          even programs like Finale or Sibelius.

                                          Both of you are right. I perfectly understand the difficulties that Jef
                                          faces dealing with old C code. Nonetheless, I'm glad that Simon's
                                          well-informed opinion confirms what I always suspected: abcm2ps is an
                                          outstanding piece of software, and not only for its ABC-related
                                          capabilities but also for its versatility.

                                          I better understand why abc2svg is the future. Fortunately, as Jef
                                          writes here: https://github.com/moinejf/abc2svg , abc2svg can also be
                                          used in batch mode:

                                          ./abcnode ScottishSessionTunes.abc > ScottishSessionTunes.xhtml

                                          Now, we want to convert the resulting .xhtml file to PDF. This is easily
                                          done with wkhtmltopdf, a multiplatform and open source tool available
                                          here: https://wkhtmltopdf.org/. This is how you use it:

                                          wkhtmltopdf -s A4 ScottishSessionTunes.xhtml ScottishSessionTunes.pdf

                                          This is nowhere near the speed of abcm2ps, but it works (Right margin
                                          too wide - I'll investigate).

                                          Better ideas are welcome!

                                          Guido =8-)

                                          --
                                          Guido Gonzato, PhD <guido.gonzato at gmail.com>
                                          Geologist, GNU/Linux sysadmin. Rationalist.
                                          "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
                                          -- Derek Bok
                                        • Hudson Flavio Meneses Lacerda
                                          Guido Gonzato guido.gonzato@gmail.com [abcusers] wrote: [...] ... Hi, Guido. wkhtmltopdf is very fine! See some features:
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Nov 23
                                            Guido Gonzato guido.gonzato@... [abcusers] wrote:
                                            [...]
                                            > I better understand why abc2svg is the future. Fortunately, as Jef
                                            > writes here: https://github.com/moinejf/abc2svg , abc2svg can also be
                                            > used in batch mode:
                                            >
                                            > ./abcnode ScottishSessionTunes.abc> ScottishSessionTunes.xhtml
                                            >
                                            > Now, we want to convert the resulting .xhtml file to PDF. This is easily
                                            > done with wkhtmltopdf, a multiplatform and open source tool available
                                            > here: https://wkhtmltopdf.org/. This is how you use it:
                                            >
                                            > wkhtmltopdf -s A4 ScottishSessionTunes.xhtml ScottishSessionTunes.pdf
                                            >
                                            > This is nowhere near the speed of abcm2ps, but it works (Right margin
                                            > too wide - I'll investigate).
                                            >
                                            > Better ideas are welcome!
                                            >
                                            > Guido =8-)
                                            >

                                            Hi, Guido.


                                            wkhtmltopdf is very fine!

                                            See some features:
                                            https://wkhtmltopdf.org/usage/wkhtmltopdf.txt


                                            I just made a couple of tests on balk1.abc (
                                            http://ifdo.ca/~seymour/runabc/balk1.abc -- 300 tunes), using an older
                                            version of wkhtmltopdf (0.12.1).

                                            XHTML generation using abc2svg/js24 was fast (just a few seconds).


                                            PDF rendering:

                                            1) conversion without command line flags:
                                            time: 35 minutes
                                            output size: 11 MiB (10716 Kib)
                                            2) conversion with -l (for low quality images):
                                            time: 5 minutes
                                            outputsize: 11 MiB (10548 KiB)

                                            Despite the large difference in time, the output quality is the same
                                            (excellent), since both SVG and PDF are vector-based.


                                            --
                                            Hudson Lacerda - https://www.hudsonlacerda.com
                                            --

                                            - Venha para a Diaspora* - uma rede social livre e descentralizada
                                            https://diasporafoundation.org
                                            https://diasporabr.com.br

                                            - Software livre é ainda mais importante agora

                                            https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html




                                            OPORTUNIDADE DE TRABALHO ESCRAVO!
                                            http://www.viomundo.com.br/denuncias/no-ar-a-propaganda-enganosa-do-trabalho-intermitente-e-escravidao.html
                                            ---
                                            Kapitalismus Über Demokratie - capitalismo acima da democracia esfola
                                            o trabalhador
                                            http://www.viomundo.com.br/voce-escreve/capitalismo-acima-da-democracia-esfola-o-trabalhador.html


                                            «O golpe é contra o povo e contra a Nação. O golpe é misógino. O
                                            golpe é homofóbico. O golpe é racista. É a imposição da cultura da
                                            intolerância, do preconceito, da violência.» (Dilma Rousseff)

                                            «The empowerment of the nation's most corrupt politicians was a key
                                            feature, not a bug, of Dilma's impeachment.» (Glenn Greenwald)
                                          • Hudson Flavio Meneses Lacerda
                                            Continuing... In another test, using the current stable version (0.12.4) from the official site (with older Qt 4.8.7), wkhtmltopdf took 13 minutes and produced
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Nov 23
                                              Continuing...


                                              In another test, using the current stable version (0.12.4) from the
                                              official site (with older Qt 4.8.7), wkhtmltopdf took 13 minutes and
                                              produced a PDF of just 2.4 MiB (2456 Kib).

                                              (For comparison, ps2pdf takes 8 seconds and the PDF has 3.6 MiB of size.)


                                              Interestingly, the number of pages varied from 120 and 135 (wkhtmltopdf)
                                              to 186 (abcm2ps).


                                              That seems to be the main path to follow (HTML+SVG to PDF).

                                              Hopefully, more programs, with better features, will be available for
                                              book publishing from HTML. Wkhtmltopdf uses Qt; other programs might use
                                              different backends.

                                              There is html-pdf for NodeJS :
                                              https://www.npmjs.com/package/html-pdf

                                              (I presume wkhtmltopdf binaries are much smaller than a NodeJS system.)


                                              Hudson




                                              Hudson Flavio Meneses Lacerda hfmlacerda@... [abcusers] wrote:
                                              > Guido Gonzato guido.gonzato@... [abcusers] wrote:
                                              > [...]
                                              >> I better understand why abc2svg is the future. Fortunately, as Jef
                                              >> writes here: https://github.com/moinejf/abc2svg , abc2svg can also be
                                              >> used in batch mode:
                                              >>
                                              >> ./abcnode ScottishSessionTunes.abc> ScottishSessionTunes.xhtml
                                              >>
                                              >> Now, we want to convert the resulting .xhtml file to PDF. This is easily
                                              >> done with wkhtmltopdf, a multiplatform and open source tool available
                                              >> here: https://wkhtmltopdf.org/. This is how you use it:
                                              >>
                                              >> wkhtmltopdf -s A4 ScottishSessionTunes.xhtml ScottishSessionTunes.pdf
                                              >>
                                              >> This is nowhere near the speed of abcm2ps, but it works (Right margin
                                              >> too wide - I'll investigate).
                                              >>
                                              >> Better ideas are welcome!
                                              >>
                                              >> Guido =8-)
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              > Hi, Guido.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > wkhtmltopdf is very fine!
                                              >
                                              > See some features:
                                              > https://wkhtmltopdf.org/usage/wkhtmltopdf.txt
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I just made a couple of tests on balk1.abc (
                                              > http://ifdo.ca/~seymour/runabc/balk1.abc -- 300 tunes), using an older
                                              > version of wkhtmltopdf (0.12.1).
                                              >
                                              > XHTML generation using abc2svg/js24 was fast (just a few seconds).
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > PDF rendering:
                                              >
                                              > 1) conversion without command line flags:
                                              > time: 35 minutes
                                              > output size: 11 MiB (10716 Kib)
                                              > 2) conversion with -l (for low quality images):
                                              > time: 5 minutes
                                              > outputsize: 11 MiB (10548 KiB)
                                              >
                                              > Despite the large difference in time, the output quality is the same
                                              > (excellent), since both SVG and PDF are vector-based.
                                              >
                                              >


                                              --
                                              Hudson Lacerda - https://www.hudsonlacerda.com
                                              --

                                              - Venha para a Diaspora* - uma rede social livre e descentralizada
                                              https://diasporafoundation.org
                                              https://diasporabr.com.br

                                              - Software livre é ainda mais importante agora

                                              https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-even-more-important.html




                                              OPORTUNIDADE DE TRABALHO ESCRAVO!
                                              http://www.viomundo.com.br/denuncias/no-ar-a-propaganda-enganosa-do-trabalho-intermitente-e-escravidao.html
                                              ---
                                              Kapitalismus Über Demokratie - capitalismo acima da democracia esfola
                                              o trabalhador
                                              http://www.viomundo.com.br/voce-escreve/capitalismo-acima-da-democracia-esfola-o-trabalhador.html


                                              «O golpe é contra o povo e contra a Nação. O golpe é misógino. O
                                              golpe é homofóbico. O golpe é racista. É a imposição da cultura da
                                              intolerância, do preconceito, da violência.» (Dilma Rousseff)

                                              «The empowerment of the nation's most corrupt politicians was a key
                                              feature, not a bug, of Dilma's impeachment.» (Glenn Greenwald)
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