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Re: [a_film_by] Re: Rancho Notorious virgins

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  • Ken Eisenstein
    ... It does. But what she was spared is something the doctor might be able to tell. ... Sure. But all good art is supposed to make you jump. ... except that
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 8 1:44 PM
      > >
      > > "I don't know how to tell you this - She - wasn't
      > spared anything"
      > > (Eisner, Fritz Lang, p. 303)
      > >
      > > While that could simply refer to the rape,
      >
      > I thought this line did simply refer to the rape.




      It does. But what she was spared is something the doctor might be able to tell.





      >
      > when it is compounded with Beth's floral
      > > brooch being torn off, Lang seems to be upping the
      > deflowering
      > toward Beth's
      > > virginity.
      > >
      > Maybe, because the brooch was a symbol of the
      > marriage Vern and Beth
      > will never have...(and in that way we understand its
      > great importance
      > to Vern during the course of the film, beyond its
      > proof of the man
      > he's seeking).
      >
      > But it seems to me to intimate the brooch==her
      > virginity is another
      > jump and one that's only arguably one Lang is
      > making.


      Sure. But all good art is supposed to make you jump.



      > So I don't know whether Beth was a virgin or not,
      > only that this
      > didn't seem to be an issue for her--that she wanted
      > to be and
      > intended to be married was clear. And I don't think
      > her virginity or
      > lack of it is an issue for Lang either,


      except that it furthers the greatness of the pairing of Vern and Frenchy
      Fairmont. I think it is Vern who has a line about there only being one woman
      for a man, and after that...
      That Vern's one is one thing and Frenchy's another deepens the pair.
    • Blake Lucas
      ... able to tell. Wait a minute. As you correctly quote him above, she WASN T spared anything. (So I don t understand what she was spared above but assume
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 8 2:53 PM
        --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Ken Eisenstein <kbe@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        > > >
        > > > "I don't know how to tell you this - She - wasn't
        > > spared anything"
        > > > (Eisner, Fritz Lang, p. 303)
        > > >
        > > > While that could simply refer to the rape,
        > >
        > > I thought this line did simply refer to the rape.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > It does. But what she was spared is something the doctor might be
        able to tell.

        Wait a minute. As you correctly quote him above, she WASN'T spared
        anything. (So I don't understand "what she was spared" above but
        assume you meant this differently--maybe "what she wasn't spared").

        I'm sure we'd agree it is not more desirable to be raped and then
        killed as a non-virgin than as a virgin. Neither victim could be
        seen as "spared anything" it seems to me.
        >
        >
        >>
        > Sure. But all good art is supposed to make you jump.

        No argument with that. But here I prefer to jump to the ambiguity
        on this point, since the "one woman" idea you refer to below refers
        to the woman and not her virginity or lack of it. If Vern and
        Frenchy are paired here, then Altar and Beth are not opposed. And
        that resonates against my sense of the whole film.
        >
        >
        >
        > > So I don't know whether Beth was a virgin or not,
        > > only that this
        > > didn't seem to be an issue for her--that she wanted
        > > to be and
        > > intended to be married was clear. And I don't think
        > > her virginity or
        > > lack of it is an issue for Lang either,
        >
        >
        > except that it furthers the greatness of the pairing of Vern and
        Frenchy
        > Fairmont. I think it is Vern who has a line about there only being
        one woman
        > for a man, and after that...
        > That Vern's one is one thing and Frenchy's another deepens the pair.
        >
        I'm pretty sure it was Frenchy who said that line. But at another
        point Vern memorably says to Altar "No...I have no girl."

        I like what you say about Vern and Frenchy, Ken.

        Blake
      • Ken Eisenstein
        ... Sorry about that typo. Yes, what I meant to write was: But what she wasN T spared... The doc is suggesting that in addition to her life, she wasn t
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 8 6:41 PM
          > "I don't know how to tell you this - She -
          > wasn't spared anything"
          > (Eisner, Fritz Lang, p. 303)
          >
          > While that could simply refer to the rape,
          >
          > > > I thought this line did simply refer to the rape.
          >
          >
          >
          > It does. But what she was spared is something the
          > doctor might be
          > able to tell.
          >
          > > Wait a minute. As you correctly quote him above, she
          >> WASN'T spared
          >> anything. (So I don't understand "what she was
          >> spared" above but
          >> assume you meant this differently--maybe "what she
          >> wasn't spared").



          Sorry about that typo.
          Yes, what I meant to write was:

          "But what she wasN'T spared..."

          The doc is suggesting that in addition to her life, she wasn't spared the dignity
          of deciding whom she has intercourse with; but maybe he also has a guess
          whether this was her first time or not, in which case she also wasn't spared her
          virginity.



          looking forward to checking out your entry on Rancho in the Fujiwara.
          thanks for the tip.

          Ken
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