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Re: [a_film_by] Re: Out One

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  • Bilge Ebiri
    ... Since the full OUT ONE has been making the rounds recently (to rather good business) I imagine a DVD of some sort can t be too far behind. And as it was
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 30 9:31 AM
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      >
      >
      > OUT ONE was issued in France on eight video cassettes before the
      > DVD era. I have them, or rather a transfer of them, part of which is
      > poor quality, visually and particularly sound-wise, so that my
      > reaction to the film -- as opposed to the "short" version, which I
      > saw three times in theaters in New York and Paris -- -- was not
      > really enthusiastic. I am sorry I couldn't see this complete showing
      > in LA and agree that a good DVD transfer is needed for this towering
      > achievement. Blake and David have seen the whole thing over the
      > weekend and are both enthusiastic. Anybody else? Can we have a
      > discussion (especially of OUT as opposed to SPECTRE)?
      >


      Since the full OUT ONE has been making the rounds recently (to rather good
      business) I imagine a DVD of some sort can't be too far behind. And as it
      was produced for television originally, I don't really see too much harm in
      seeing it on a TV, although I cherish my theatrical viewing of it last year
      dearly. I wrote something about it at the time:
      http://www.nervepop.com/nerveblog/screengrabblog.aspx?id=107e7844#7844

      I'm not as familiar with Rivette's entire body of work as some, but there
      are certainly several of his films I'd place ahead of OUT ONE, were I to do
      something so silly as ranking them. That said, "towering achievement" is no
      hyperbole; it really is a haunting, haunting film. Added to that, I will
      never be able to see MOONRAKER again without thinking immediately of OUT
      ONE. (Not that I'm planning on seeing MOONRAKER again.)

      -Bilge
    • David Ehrenstein
      ... I ahev a very special fondness for Duelle --which I ve written about for Senses of Cinema. But Out One is really something else. It looms over all of
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 30 9:55 AM
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        --- Bilge Ebiri <ebiri@...> wrote:


        > I'm not as familiar with Rivette's entire body of
        > work as some, but there
        > are certainly several of his films I'd place ahead
        > of OUT ONE, were I to do
        > something so silly as ranking them. That said,
        > "towering achievement" is no
        > hyperbole; it really is a haunting, haunting film.


        I ahev a very special fondness for "Duelle" --which
        I've written about for "Senses of Cinema." But "Out
        One" is really something else. It looms over all of
        Rivette, all of the new wave, and is a touchstone for
        quite literaly all of cinema. I can't think of the
        movies from now on without thinking of "Out One."

        A DVD is of course long overdue. But there's a lot to
        be said for the experience of seeing it with an
        ausdience. The presence of others mirrors the films
        two theater troupes. And at each break we split apart
        and come together again much like the people we're
        looking at on screen.






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      • peterhenne
        Oceanic. Magnificent. And Out 1 seems like the birthplace--might as well say it, the star nursery--of all Rivettes afterward, though among his features I ve
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 30 2:53 PM
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          Oceanic. Magnificent. And "Out 1" seems like the birthplace--might
          as well say it, the star nursery--of all Rivettes afterward, though
          among his features I've not seen "Le Pont du Nord," "Merry-Go-
          Round," and "Don't Touch the Axe" (nor "L'Amour Fou" from 1968--it's
          my new quest film). I've never seen "Out 1: Spectre."

          The turn out here in Los Angeles was pretty good. Guessing that 150-
          200 people started and around half that number finished.

          I'll be writing more on "Out 1" when I have more time in my schedule.

          Peter Henne


          --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Bilge Ebiri" <ebiri@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > >
          > >
          > > OUT ONE was issued in France on eight video cassettes before
          the
          > > DVD era. I have them, or rather a transfer of them, part of
          which is
          > > poor quality, visually and particularly sound-wise, so that my
          > > reaction to the film -- as opposed to the "short" version, which
          I
          > > saw three times in theaters in New York and Paris -- -- was not
          > > really enthusiastic. I am sorry I couldn't see this complete
          showing
          > > in LA and agree that a good DVD transfer is needed for this
          towering
          > > achievement. Blake and David have seen the whole thing over the
          > > weekend and are both enthusiastic. Anybody else? Can we have a
          > > discussion (especially of OUT as opposed to SPECTRE)?
          > >
          >
          >
          > Since the full OUT ONE has been making the rounds recently (to
          rather good
          > business) I imagine a DVD of some sort can't be too far behind.
          And as it
          > was produced for television originally, I don't really see too
          much harm in
          > seeing it on a TV, although I cherish my theatrical viewing of it
          last year
          > dearly. I wrote something about it at the time:
          > http://www.nervepop.com/nerveblog/screengrabblog.aspx?
          id=107e7844#7844
          >
          > I'm not as familiar with Rivette's entire body of work as some,
          but there
          > are certainly several of his films I'd place ahead of OUT ONE,
          were I to do
          > something so silly as ranking them. That said, "towering
          achievement" is no
          > hyperbole; it really is a haunting, haunting film. Added to that,
          I will
          > never be able to see MOONRAKER again without thinking immediately
          of OUT
          > ONE. (Not that I'm planning on seeing MOONRAKER again.)
          >
          > -Bilge
          >
        • David Ehrenstein
          A major footnote: Robert Kohler regards Lonsdale as the pivotal character -- which in a conventional film he would be. He also poohpoohs taking Les 13
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 30 3:09 PM
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            A major footnote: Robert Kohler regards Lonsdale as
            the pivotal character -- which in a conventional film
            he would be. He also poohpoohs taking Les 13 seriously
            as an idead. I disagree, and here's why:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ac%C3%A9phale


            --- peterhenne <peterhenne@...> wrote:

            > Oceanic. Magnificent. And "Out 1" seems like the
            > birthplace--might
            > as well say it, the star nursery--of all Rivettes
            > afterward, though
            > among his features I've not seen "Le Pont du Nord,"
            > "Merry-Go-
            > Round," and "Don't Touch the Axe" (nor "L'Amour Fou"
            > from 1968--it's
            > my new quest film). I've never seen "Out 1:
            > Spectre."
            >
            > The turn out here in Los Angeles was pretty good.
            > Guessing that 150-
            > 200 people started and around half that number
            > finished.
            >
            > I'll be writing more on "Out 1" when I have more
            > time in my schedule.
            >
            > Peter Henne
            >
            >
            > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Bilge Ebiri"
            > <ebiri@...> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > OUT ONE was issued in France on eight video
            > cassettes before
            > the
            > > > DVD era. I have them, or rather a transfer of
            > them, part of
            > which is
            > > > poor quality, visually and particularly
            > sound-wise, so that my
            > > > reaction to the film -- as opposed to the
            > "short" version, which
            > I
            > > > saw three times in theaters in New York and
            > Paris -- -- was not
            > > > really enthusiastic. I am sorry I couldn't see
            > this complete
            > showing
            > > > in LA and agree that a good DVD transfer is
            > needed for this
            > towering
            > > > achievement. Blake and David have seen the whole
            > thing over the
            > > > weekend and are both enthusiastic. Anybody else?
            > Can we have a
            > > > discussion (especially of OUT as opposed to
            > SPECTRE)?
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Since the full OUT ONE has been making the rounds
            > recently (to
            > rather good
            > > business) I imagine a DVD of some sort can't be
            > too far behind.
            > And as it
            > > was produced for television originally, I don't
            > really see too
            > much harm in
            > > seeing it on a TV, although I cherish my
            > theatrical viewing of it
            > last year
            > > dearly. I wrote something about it at the time:
            > >
            >
            http://www.nervepop.com/nerveblog/screengrabblog.aspx?
            > id=107e7844#7844
            > >
            > > I'm not as familiar with Rivette's entire body of
            > work as some,
            > but there
            > > are certainly several of his films I'd place ahead
            > of OUT ONE,
            > were I to do
            > > something so silly as ranking them. That said,
            > "towering
            > achievement" is no
            > > hyperbole; it really is a haunting, haunting film.
            > Added to that,
            > I will
            > > never be able to see MOONRAKER again without
            > thinking immediately
            > of OUT
            > > ONE. (Not that I'm planning on seeing MOONRAKER
            > again.)
            > >
            > > -Bilge
            > >
            >
            >
            >




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          • jpcoursodon
            ... To me the birth place and star nursery is L AMOUR FOU. OUT 1: Spectre is like the version of GREED we see as opposed to what Stroheim filmed. The
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 30 6:30 PM
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              --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "peterhenne" <peterhenne@...> wrote:
              >
              > Oceanic. Magnificent. And "Out 1" seems like the birthplace--might
              > as well say it, the star nursery--of all Rivettes afterward, though
              > among his features I've not seen "Le Pont du Nord," "Merry-Go-
              > Round," and "Don't Touch the Axe" (nor "L'Amour Fou" from 1968--it's
              > my new quest film). I've never seen "Out 1: Spectre."
              >
              >
              > Peter Henne
              >
              >
              To me the birth place and star nursery is L'AMOUR FOU. OUT 1:
              Spectre is like the version of GREED we see as opposed to what
              Stroheim filmed. The difference is that we don't have the Stroheim
              footage and we have the Rivette.

              JPC
            • Blake Lucas
              ... might ... though ... it s ... I m sympathetic to this view of L AMOUR FOU--even though I haven t seen it in a long time (but saw it twice within the few
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 31 11:58 AM
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                --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "jpcoursodon" <jpcoursodon@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "peterhenne" <peterhenne@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Oceanic. Magnificent. And "Out 1" seems like the birthplace--
                might
                > > as well say it, the star nursery--of all Rivettes afterward,
                though
                > > among his features I've not seen "Le Pont du Nord," "Merry-Go-
                > > Round," and "Don't Touch the Axe" (nor "L'Amour Fou" from 1968--
                it's
                > > my new quest film). I've never seen "Out 1: Spectre."
                > >
                > >
                > > Peter Henne
                > >
                > >
                > To me the birth place and star nursery is L'AMOUR FOU. OUT 1:
                > Spectre is like the version of GREED we see as opposed to what
                > Stroheim filmed. The difference is that we don't have the Stroheim
                > footage and we have the Rivette.
                >
                > JPC
                >
                I'm sympathetic to this view of L'AMOUR FOU--even though I haven't
                seen it in a long time (but saw it twice within the few weeks it
                played here originally), I haven't forgotten it as a devastating
                masterpiece. In fact, PARIS BELONGS TO US, too, is a rather amazing
                formative work for which one could also make some serious claims.

                But what one happens to like best among Rivette films (there are a
                lot of candidates, and like Peter I'm missing a few but have seen
                most) is really a different question than what most reveals him.
                And after sitting through that incredible moviegoing experience of
                OUT 1 this weekend, I have to say that has just got to be the
                mother lode or the master key or whatever one wants to call it as
                far as what his work is and what it's all about.

                (Parenthetically, I did see OUT 1: SPECTRE once some years ago, and
                honestly, it didn't make that deep an impresssion or linger in my
                mind--even though I remember some of these same scenes and images,
                they play entirely differently in the longer version, and I can't
                help wondering if SPECTRE was a compromise on Rivette's part to get
                a version of the film out there. I really think he wanted the
                expansiveness of OUT 1 for this project, and wanted these scenes
                to "breathe" in the way they do in the long version, though this
                is a big subject...)

                Sharing a little time the last few days to think about Bergman--and
                now Antonioni--but I've mostly been thinking about OUT 1, because
                there is so much to think about in it. Everything about it seems to
                tie into recurring threads in a_f_b, by the way, from the aesthetic
                philosophy behind long takes, to the place of actors, to the question
                of whether narrative is important, and if so, how it is important.
                Rivette engages all of these and many other issues vital both to
                cinema and the culture that gave birth to this particular film, and
                in the most profound, haunting way.

                So I hope this is a film that will at least come and go in discussion
                here, as people have the chance to see it--kind of in a way the
                characters and narrative threads come and go (and do finally cohere)
                in OUT 1.

                I promise to get back with some hopefully more substantial thoughts
                when they are sorted out. But for the moment, I can only say that
                this is a work of art which is, dare I say it, Promethean...

                Blake Lucas
              • David Ehrenstein
                ... Everything ... Right on the money! For me it s impossible to talk about the cinema from now on without referencing Out One. It s why Rivette was the
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 31 12:19 PM
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                  --- Blake Lucas <lukethedealer@...> wrote:
                  Everything
                  > about it seems to
                  > tie into recurring threads in a_f_b, by the way,
                  > from the aesthetic
                  > philosophy behind long takes, to the place of
                  > actors, to the question
                  > of whether narrative is important, and if so, how it
                  > is important.
                  > Rivette engages all of these and many other issues
                  > vital both to
                  > cinema and the culture that gave birth to this
                  > particular film, and
                  > in the most profound, haunting way.
                  >

                  Right on the money! For me it's impossible to talk
                  about the cinema from now on without referencing "Out
                  One." It's why Rivette was the eminence gris of the
                  nouvelle vague whos ideas and opinions mattered most
                  to everyone -- even those filmmakers whose works were
                  alien to his interests, like Truffaut. Telling that
                  both Leaud and Suzanne Schiffman -- major forces in
                  Truffaut's cinema -- were major forces in Rivette's as
                  well, in entirely different ways.

                  Colin in "Out One" is the opposite of Antoine Doinel.
                  "The Mother and the Whore" splits the difference
                  between them.

                  (Note too, Lonsdale starred in Eustache's "Un Sale
                  Histoire"





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                • peterhenne
                  To Blake: That s what I was after when I made that star nursery remark. To JPC: Thanks very much for your perspective. You and others have told me about the
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 31 2:01 PM
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                    To Blake: That's what I was after when I made that star nursery
                    remark.

                    To JPC: Thanks very much for your perspective. You and others have
                    told me about the crucial place "L'Amour Fou" holds in Rivette's
                    career. There is a sliver of hope that it will still come to the
                    Armand Hammer Museum here in Los Angeles. I'm eager to see it.

                    About Bergman and Antonioni, I'm too shocked by this one-two punch
                    to my film-loving soul to say much but feel like saying what I can.
                    That is not to say that Bergman and Antonioni separately or in
                    combination are a litmus test for appreciating cinema. I'm sure that
                    mine is a common story: Bergman opened me to a cinema I didn't know
                    when I was 18 years old. A teacher of mine recommended seeing "The
                    Seventh Seal." Here was a rhythm and visual beauty not commanded by
                    the script alone. That was exciting to me; I had already felt that
                    movies in which the script and acting alone were what stood out were
                    pretty boring, and was wondering if something better could be done
                    about that! I started going to revival houses, soon enough going a
                    lot. Bergman became my first love of the cinema. He opened me to
                    Godard, Tarkovsky, Dreyer, Ford, Renoir, and then, I think
                    naturally, many directors and films started to lead to many more.

                    Antonioni was hard for me to come to. I thought "L'Avventura" was
                    indifferent to human strivings (or some crap like that) the first
                    time I saw it. By the second time, a couple of years later, I was
                    gone on the film and I sought out and saw all of his features (and
                    have been able to see most of his shorts). About a year ago, LACMA
                    held an Antonioni retrospective and I went to see "Red Desert"
                    again. I was more taken than ever by how the punctuations of color,
                    in their own right, undercut the usual cluster of assumptions to be
                    made about a film creating a realistic fictional world.

                    Here's a link to my review of "Beyond the Clouds":

                    http://www.filmjournal.com/filmjournal/search/article_display.jsp?
                    vnu_content_id=1000698285

                    Still mentally reeling from "Out 1," reflecting on these two great
                    artists is not something I particularly wish to do right now. To
                    pick out some favorites, "Cries and Whispers" and "Red Desert" are
                    each giants of films, and I wish I could be spending time just on
                    this Rivette giant of a film instead. But when an artist dies that
                    person's work is complete, and if you're interested in the artist,
                    death begins the process of looking back, tying together and
                    historically situating. I'll just say I feel fortunate to have so
                    much great artistry made available to me.

                    Peter Henne





                    --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, "Blake Lucas" <lukethedealer@...>
                    wrote:

                    >
                    > But what one happens to like best among Rivette films (there are a
                    > lot of candidates, and like Peter I'm missing a few but have seen
                    > most) is really a different question than what most reveals him.
                    > And after sitting through that incredible moviegoing experience of
                    > OUT 1 this weekend, I have to say that has just got to be the
                    > mother lode or the master key or whatever one wants to call it as
                    > far as what his work is and what it's all about.
                    >
                    > Blake Lucas
                    >
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