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  • Adrian Martin
    David said: [RAGING BULL was] the last important biopic with a problematic central figure ... David, the last important biopic with a problematic central
    Message 1 of 13 , May 1, 2007
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      David said:

      " [RAGING BULL was] the last
      important biopic with a problematic central figure" ...

      David, the last important biopic with a problematic central figure
      SHOULD have been THE AVIATOR, but wasn't!!

      But really, the last important biopic with a problematic central figure
      was the underrated DOMINO !!

      Adrian



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • David Ehrenstein
      Well LAURENCE Harvey was always problematic. But then we re entering cinema verite territory. ... __________________________________________________ Do You
      Message 2 of 13 , May 1, 2007
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        Well LAURENCE Harvey was always problematic. But then
        we're entering cinema verite territory.

        --- Adrian Martin <apmartin@...> wrote:

        > David said:
        >
        > " [RAGING BULL was] the last
        > important biopic with a problematic central figure"
        > ...
        >
        > David, the last important biopic with a problematic
        > central figure
        > SHOULD have been THE AVIATOR, but wasn't!!
        >
        > But really, the last important biopic with a
        > problematic central figure
        > was the underrated DOMINO !!
        >
        > Adrian
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been
        > removed]
        >
        >


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      • thebradstevens
        ... Hmm. How about Allen Coulter s HOLLYWOODLAND, Paul Schrader s AUTO FOCUS and James Cox s WONDERLAND?
        Message 3 of 13 , May 1, 2007
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          --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein <cellar47@...>
          wrote:

          > > " [RAGING BULL was] the last
          > > important biopic with a problematic central figure"
          > >

          Hmm. How about Allen Coulter's HOLLYWOODLAND, Paul Schrader's AUTO
          FOCUS and James Cox's WONDERLAND?
        • David Ehrenstein
          ... All big hits, right? Hollywoodland was interesting, but George Reeves more its occasion than its subject. Instead Adrien Brody ran around trying to do
          Message 4 of 13 , May 1, 2007
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            --- thebradstevens <bradstevens22@...> wrote:


            >
            > Hmm. How about Allen Coulter's HOLLYWOODLAND, Paul
            > Schrader's AUTO
            > FOCUS and James Cox's WONDERLAND?
            >

            All big hits, right?

            "Hollywoodland" was interesting, but George Reeves
            more its occasion than its subject. Instead Adrien
            Brody ran around trying to do "Chinatown."

            Schrader's and Cox's films can turn Bob Crane or John
            Holmes into compelling anti-heroes in any way.

            Jodie's Leni will have her playing the lead herself so
            it should be, uh. . .interesting.


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          • Rick
            ... It really could be interesting if she turns the post-war period of Reifenstahal s life into a dark political comedy about the rationalizations of her many
            Message 5 of 13 , May 1, 2007
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              --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein <cellar47@...> wrote:

              > Jodie's Leni will have her playing the lead herself so
              > it should be, uh. . .interesting.


              It really could be interesting if she turns the post-war period of
              Reifenstahal's life into a dark political comedy about the
              rationalizations of her many admirers (Mick Jagger, John Simon, et al).
            • Matt Armstrong
              ... figure ... Yikes. Make your case.
              Message 6 of 13 , May 1, 2007
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                --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, Adrian Martin <apmartin@...> wrote:
                > But really, the last important biopic with a problematic central
                figure
                > was the underrated DOMINO !!

                Yikes.

                Make your case.
              • David Ehrenstein
                That s about as likely to happen as her coming out. ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the
                Message 7 of 13 , May 1, 2007
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                  That's about as likely to happen as her coming out.

                  --- Rick <rick.segreda@...> wrote:

                  > --- In a_film_by@yahoogroups.com, David Ehrenstein
                  > <cellar47@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Jodie's Leni will have her playing the lead
                  > herself so
                  > > it should be, uh. . .interesting.
                  >
                  >
                  > It really could be interesting if she turns the
                  > post-war period of
                  > Reifenstahal's life into a dark political comedy
                  > about the
                  > rationalizations of her many admirers (Mick Jagger,
                  > John Simon, et al).
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


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                • Mathieu Ricordi
                  ... Haven t seen Domino . But in tune with the underrated in this problematic central bopic mini-genre, The Good Shepherd has to be mentioned. I don t
                  Message 8 of 13 , May 2, 2007
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                    Quoting Adrian Martin <apmartin@...>:

                    > David said:
                    >
                    > " [RAGING BULL was] the last
                    > important biopic with a problematic central figure" ...
                    >
                    > David, the last important biopic with a problematic central figure
                    > SHOULD have been THE AVIATOR, but wasn't!!
                    >
                    > But really, the last important biopic with a problematic central figure
                    > was the underrated DOMINO !!
                    >
                    > Adrian

                    Haven't seen "Domino". But in tune with the underrated in this
                    problematic central bopic mini-genre, "The Good Shepherd"
                    has to be mentioned. I don't beleive this gem has even
                    been brought up on a_film_by yet. It's a good deal more complex
                    and rewarding than Scorsese has mananged in well over a decade.

                    Anyone expecting a simple history lesson on the CIA, or
                    an Oliver Stone type chainsaw surgical procedure on the
                    orginization's dealings got something so much deeper and
                    unusual: a subtle and elequant study of human tribalism
                    as it applies to issues of class, politics, and education-
                    not to mention how loyalty to these for need of approval
                    determins friendships, family, and nationalism. De Niro (director)
                    and Eric Roth (screenplay) have pulled off a character study
                    (not just of a personality type but of a country's) so shockingly
                    relevent to the disillusionment and sensitivity of current
                    day social movements that it registers as a signpost epic for
                    recent times. It was also directed with careful rythms and
                    visual patterns that pay dividends on repeat veiwings from a man
                    whose first feature was fun but unremarkable.

                    I'm surprised the film has left such a trail of silence.

                    Mathieu Ricordi
                  • David Ehrenstein
                    ... It s not a bad film but I for one never found it truly engaging. It s about white male angst -- a subject some writers (John O Hara, John Cheever) have
                    Message 9 of 13 , May 2, 2007
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                      --- Mathieu Ricordi <ricordites@...> wrote:


                      > Haven't seen "Domino". But in tune with the
                      > underrated in this
                      > problematic central bopic mini-genre, "The Good
                      > Shepherd"
                      > has to be mentioned. I don't beleive this gem has
                      > even
                      > been brought up on a_film_by yet. It's a good deal
                      > more complex
                      > and rewarding than Scorsese has mananged in well
                      > over a decade.
                      >
                      > Anyone expecting a simple history lesson on the CIA,
                      > or
                      > an Oliver Stone type chainsaw surgical procedure on
                      > the
                      > orginization's dealings got something so much deeper
                      > and
                      > unusual: a subtle and elequant study of human
                      > tribalism
                      > as it applies to issues of class, politics, and
                      > education-
                      > not to mention how loyalty to these for need of
                      > approval
                      > determins friendships, family, and nationalism. De
                      > Niro (director)
                      > and Eric Roth (screenplay) have pulled off a
                      > character study
                      > (not just of a personality type but of a country's)
                      > so shockingly
                      > relevent to the disillusionment and sensitivity of
                      > current
                      > day social movements that it registers as a signpost
                      > epic for
                      > recent times. It was also directed with careful
                      > rythms and
                      > visual patterns that pay dividends on repeat
                      > veiwings from a man
                      > whose first feature was fun but unremarkable.
                      >
                      > I'm surprised the film has left such a trail of
                      > silence.
                      >

                      It's not a "bad" film but I for one never found it
                      truly engaging. It's about white male angst -- a
                      subject some writers (John O'Hara, John Cheever) have
                      made compelling. But not DeNiro and his collaborators.
                      I would have appreciated a more thoroughgoing
                      examination of the history of the CIA. But then such a
                      film wouldn't have been financed at all.

                      Casting Angelina Jolie to play a long-suffering June
                      Allyson wifey was a REALLY bad idea. Here she is all
                      dressed up to seduce half the world and she's forced
                      to stay home and moan about Matt Damon being cold and
                      distant.

                      Still it's worth a look for select moments and
                      performances.

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