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The closed section of the East Fork

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  • cgptsnaz
    The area between the parks boundary and where the east fork empties into the main fork of the Virgin is closed to hiking and exploration, but is it monitored.
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 15, 2013
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      The area between the parks boundary and where the east fork empties into the main fork of the Virgin is closed to hiking and exploration, but is it monitored. I have been as far west as the parks boundary here:


      I guess the ruins I have seen in the walls above and around the closed section are pretty interesting? Has anyone been there maybe before the park closed this area?
    • glennlray
      My recollection from reading earlier descriptions is that the ruins were in pretty bad shape and had been vandalized considerably. There were some photos
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 15, 2013
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        My recollection from reading earlier descriptions is that the ruins were in pretty bad shape and had been vandalized considerably.  There were some photos available online[1], but they didn't show much; certainly not the location within the canyon.  I don't know if that was the motivation for designating the canyon as NRA, but I do know that the Kaibab Paiute tribe had been concerned about this and consider the area sacred.

         

        Side note:  We've had several discussions here about the nomenclature of the East Fork Virgin River area - trying to delineate "The Barracks" from "Parunuweap" and so forth.  Turns out that the Southern Paiutes called the upper canyon "Parunuweap" ("water in narrow canyon") - what we today call "The Barracks".  The wider canyon, they called "Mukuntuweap" ("straight canyon")[2]. 

         

        I've been reading a lot about the Southern Paiute and am especially interested in their names for features in the Zion and Southern Utah area. 

         

        [1] Photos/thread at Bogley:

        http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?41174-Parunuweap-Anasazi-Ruins

         

        [2] Ethnographic Overview and Assessment:  Zion National Park, Utah and Pipe Spring National Monument, Arizona; Stoffle, et. al, 1997, rev. 2013; Bureau of Applied Research in Anthropology, The University of Arizona in Tuscon & Southern Paiute Consortium, p. 111



        ---In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, <zion_national_park_hiking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        The area between the parks boundary and where the east fork empties into the main fork of the Virgin is closed to hiking and exploration, but is it monitored. I have been as far west as the parks boundary here:

        I guess the ruins I have seen in the walls above and around the closed section are pretty interesting? Has anyone been there maybe before the park closed this area?
      • cgptsnaz
        From the route leading out from the lower Parunuweap to Checkerboard Mesa I have seen what appears to be wooden poles in cave and other areas in the cliffs
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 15, 2013
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          From the route leading out from the lower Parunuweap to Checkerboard Mesa I have seen what appears to be wooden poles in cave and other areas in the cliffs opposite the route out. Some look like impossible places that Indians would have been able to have gotten to neither from below or above, tho I am sure they were much stronger climbers than I would want to be with limited ropes and hand and foot ability. 

          I guess the lower area between the park boundary and the area around Rockville would hold some very interesting ruins. I have been interested in Indian lifestyle and ruins since I was a kid as my great grandmother was Mohawk from upstate NY. 

          I know of a few ruins in the canyons off Long Valley in the White Cliffs region east of US 89,Mt Carmel,Orderville and Kanab Creek. Most are small pit house and flint knapping sites.

          I last was at the route route from the lower Parunuweap many years ago in 2005-06 and saw the ruins above I mentioned. I looked back and thru binoculars saw the cliff ruins with poles and such in them. Not tree's but what looked like cut poles from my experience in other ruins in the southwest.



          ---In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, <zion_national_park_hiking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          My recollection from reading earlier descriptions is that the ruins were in pretty bad shape and had been vandalized considerably.  There were some photos available online[1], but they didn't show much; certainly not the location within the canyon.  I don't know if that was the motivation for designating the canyon as NRA, but I do know that the Kaibab Paiute tribe had been concerned about this and consider the area sacred.

           

          Side note:  We've had several discussions here about the nomenclature of the East Fork Virgin River area - trying to delineate "The Barracks" from "Parunuweap" and so forth.  Turns out that the Southern Paiutes called the upper canyon "Parunuweap" ("water in narrow canyon") - what we today call "The Barracks".  The wider canyon, they called "Mukuntuweap" ("straight canyon")[2]. 

           

          I've been reading a lot about the Southern Paiute and am especially interested in their names for features in the Zion and Southern Utah area. 

           

          [1] Photos/thread at Bogley:

          http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?41174-Parunuweap-Anasazi-Ruins

           

          [2] Ethnographic Overview and Assessment:  Zion National Park, Utah and Pipe Spring National Monument, Arizona; Stoffle, et. al, 1997, rev. 2013; Bureau of Applied Research in Anthropology, The University of Arizona in Tuscon & Southern Paiute Consortium, p. 111



          ---In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, <zion_national_park_hiking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          The area between the parks boundary and where the east fork empties into the main fork of the Virgin is closed to hiking and exploration, but is it monitored. I have been as far west as the parks boundary here:

          I guess the ruins I have seen in the walls above and around the closed section are pretty interesting? Has anyone been there maybe before the park closed this area?
        • Marshall Wilson
          Is the closed section well marked? Also is it closed to study the historical artifacts or to study natural areas, recovery etc......i.e. why close it?
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 15, 2013
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            Is the closed section well marked?  Also is it closed to study the historical artifacts or to study natural areas, recovery etc......i.e. why close it?




            On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 12:41 PM, <cgptsnaz@...> wrote:
             

            From the route leading out from the lower Parunuweap to Checkerboard Mesa I have seen what appears to be wooden poles in cave and other areas in the cliffs opposite the route out. Some look like impossible places that Indians would have been able to have gotten to neither from below or above, tho I am sure they were much stronger climbers than I would want to be with limited ropes and hand and foot ability. 

            I guess the lower area between the park boundary and the area around Rockville would hold some very interesting ruins. I have been interested in Indian lifestyle and ruins since I was a kid as my great grandmother was Mohawk from upstate NY. 

            I know of a few ruins in the canyons off Long Valley in the White Cliffs region east of US 89,Mt Carmel,Orderville and Kanab Creek. Most are small pit house and flint knapping sites.

            I last was at the route route from the lower Parunuweap many years ago in 2005-06 and saw the ruins above I mentioned. I looked back and thru binoculars saw the cliff ruins with poles and such in them. Not tree's but what looked like cut poles from my experience in other ruins in the southwest.



            ---In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, <zion_national_park_hiking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            My recollection from reading earlier descriptions is that the ruins were in pretty bad shape and had been vandalized considerably.  There were some photos available online[1], but they didn't show much; certainly not the location within the canyon.  I don't know if that was the motivation for designating the canyon as NRA, but I do know that the Kaibab Paiute tribe had been concerned about this and consider the area sacred.

             

            Side note:  We've had several discussions here about the nomenclature of the East Fork Virgin River area - trying to delineate "The Barracks" from "Parunuweap" and so forth.  Turns out that the Southern Paiutes called the upper canyon "Parunuweap" ("water in narrow canyon") - what we today call "The Barracks".  The wider canyon, they called "Mukuntuweap" ("straight canyon")[2]. 

             

            I've been reading a lot about the Southern Paiute and am especially interested in their names for features in the Zion and Southern Utah area. 

             

            [1] Photos/thread at Bogley:

            http://www.bogley.com/forum/showthread.php?41174-Parunuweap-Anasazi-Ruins

             

            [2] Ethnographic Overview and Assessment:  Zion National Park, Utah and Pipe Spring National Monument, Arizona; Stoffle, et. al, 1997, rev. 2013; Bureau of Applied Research in Anthropology, The University of Arizona in Tuscon & Southern Paiute Consortium, p. 111



            ---In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, <zion_national_park_hiking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            The area between the parks boundary and where the east fork empties into the main fork of the Virgin is closed to hiking and exploration, but is it monitored. I have been as far west as the parks boundary here:

            I guess the ruins I have seen in the walls above and around the closed section are pretty interesting? Has anyone been there maybe before the park closed this area?


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