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Re: Not too easy but not too hard hikes in Zion!

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  • katecharnley@rocketmail.com
    Hi Thank you so much for all your help and ideas. Beginning to think we really need about three months in Zion alone! Just a couple more points if you don t
    Message 1 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
      Hi

      Thank you so much for all your help and ideas. Beginning to think we really need about three months in Zion alone! Just a couple more points if you don't mind. Could you recommend a good map? I'm wondering if it is straight forward to identify the starting point of the trails Joe mentions in the Upper East Canyon. Are these hikes trail-marked or is the route pretty self evident once you're there? We're keen not to be incompetent Brits who get lost! In the UK we always carry a map and compass. Presumably we'll be able to get clued up at an Information Centre in Springdale.

      Finally I'm expecting the weather to be chilly in the early mornings and getting pretty warm later. Hopefully no rain. Is that about right?

      And last of all, Joe refers to "pleasant hikes".....believe me, they'll all be stunning to us - can you imagine seeing a hoodoo or a mesa when you're used to heather and moorland (albeit beautiful!)

      Thanks once more.

      --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, Craig A Schneiderman <craig326@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hey Kate,
      > I am sure everyone has some great suggestions and I thought I would add some of my own. When I was there last year my favorite all-around hike was hiking up the Angels Landing trail from the beginning and bypassing the difficult part and then taking the West Rim Trail from there. There are some SPECTACULAR views all along the way and the hiking is fantastic. You can walk as far as you want and then turn back whenever you are ready. I highly recommend it. Yes, doing the entire West Rim is too long for a day for you. Another favorite hike (one you did mention) was The Canyon Overlook Trail. Yes, it is short - but it is the best all around hike in the area IMHO - including the topography and the view at the end. You can do this on the way out on your way to Bryce out of the East gate. Also, along that same road out there are many places you can park your car and just hike on the slickrocks . One that stands out is called Seperation Canyon= awesome experience. You can find more about that-@ zionnationalpark.com
      >
      > Have a great time!
      > Best,
      > Craig
      >
      > ---- Original Message -----
      > From: katecharnley@...
      > To: Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:51 PM
      > Subject: [Zion_National_Park_Hiking] Not too easy but not too hard hikes in Zion!
      >
      >
      >
      > My husband and I will be in Zion 3 to 6 May. First day will travel from LV and recover from flight from UK. After Zion we'll have an overnight stay in Bryce to do Peekaboo Queens Garden Navajo Trail then on to Boulder to do a couple of days guided hikes/canyoneering.
      > We want to make the most of Zion but despite trying hard to research the options I'm struggling to grasp the topography and to work out which hikes would suit us - 50+ year olds, fairly fit, used to hiking in UK. We would like to do the Observation Point hike and possibly The Narrows weather and conditions permitting. If we can't do The Narrows, what would be a good alternative please? Don't have the head for heights for Angel's Landing or Hidden Canyon and think the West Rim would be too long for a day and Canyon Overlook too short! Keen to escape the crowds if possible and get off the beaten track a little whilst acknowledging that Zion will be a whole new experience to us. Also what would be a good hike that we could stop off and do on the last day when we head out of Zion to our next stop in Bryce?
      > Just love Joe Braun's photos and can't wait to see it all for ourselves.
      > Any suggestions gratefully received!
      >
    • Joe Braun
      The National Geographic Trails Illustrated map for Zion is the perfect companion (costs about $10 US). It s pamphlet size, shows the entire park, and is easy
      Message 2 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
        The National Geographic Trails Illustrated map for Zion is the perfect companion (costs about $10 US). It's pamphlet size, shows the entire park, and is easy to take in your pack.

        The maps on my site are cut-outs of the larger USGS topo maps, so it should be easy enough to compare the two and find where my map and your intended hikes fit into the bigger picture.

        And I can totally relate to the "pleasant" scenery. I live in Michigan but I have been returning to Zion 1-2 times a year for the past 35 years. I never get sick of it and yes, just seeing a sandstone formation or hiking in a simple desert drainage is enough to put me in my happy place even if it's not considered "stunning" scenery! :)




        --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "katecharnley@..." <katecharnley@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi
        >
        > Thank you so much for all your help and ideas. Beginning to think we really need about three months in Zion alone! Just a couple more points if you don't mind. Could you recommend a good map? I'm wondering if it is straight forward to identify the starting point of the trails Joe mentions in the Upper East Canyon. Are these hikes trail-marked or is the route pretty self evident once you're there? We're keen not to be incompetent Brits who get lost! In the UK we always carry a map and compass. Presumably we'll be able to get clued up at an Information Centre in Springdale.
        >
        > Finally I'm expecting the weather to be chilly in the early mornings and getting pretty warm later. Hopefully no rain. Is that about right?
        >
        > And last of all, Joe refers to "pleasant hikes".....believe me, they'll all be stunning to us - can you imagine seeing a hoodoo or a mesa when you're used to heather and moorland (albeit beautiful!)
        >
        > Thanks once more.
        >
        > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, Craig A Schneiderman <craig326@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hey Kate,
        > > I am sure everyone has some great suggestions and I thought I would add some of my own. When I was there last year my favorite all-around hike was hiking up the Angels Landing trail from the beginning and bypassing the difficult part and then taking the West Rim Trail from there. There are some SPECTACULAR views all along the way and the hiking is fantastic. You can walk as far as you want and then turn back whenever you are ready. I highly recommend it. Yes, doing the entire West Rim is too long for a day for you. Another favorite hike (one you did mention) was The Canyon Overlook Trail. Yes, it is short - but it is the best all around hike in the area IMHO - including the topography and the view at the end. You can do this on the way out on your way to Bryce out of the East gate. Also, along that same road out there are many places you can park your car and just hike on the slickrocks . One that stands out is called Seperation Canyon= awesome experience. You can find more about that-@ zionnationalpark.com
        > >
        > > Have a great time!
        > > Best,
        > > Craig
        > >
        > > ---- Original Message -----
        > > From: katecharnley@
        > > To: Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com
        > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:51 PM
        > > Subject: [Zion_National_Park_Hiking] Not too easy but not too hard hikes in Zion!
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > My husband and I will be in Zion 3 to 6 May. First day will travel from LV and recover from flight from UK. After Zion we'll have an overnight stay in Bryce to do Peekaboo Queens Garden Navajo Trail then on to Boulder to do a couple of days guided hikes/canyoneering.
        > > We want to make the most of Zion but despite trying hard to research the options I'm struggling to grasp the topography and to work out which hikes would suit us - 50+ year olds, fairly fit, used to hiking in UK. We would like to do the Observation Point hike and possibly The Narrows weather and conditions permitting. If we can't do The Narrows, what would be a good alternative please? Don't have the head for heights for Angel's Landing or Hidden Canyon and think the West Rim would be too long for a day and Canyon Overlook too short! Keen to escape the crowds if possible and get off the beaten track a little whilst acknowledging that Zion will be a whole new experience to us. Also what would be a good hike that we could stop off and do on the last day when we head out of Zion to our next stop in Bryce?
        > > Just love Joe Braun's photos and can't wait to see it all for ourselves.
        > > Any suggestions gratefully received!
        > >
        >
      • Jeff Schaber
        Wow Joe, didn t realize you were in Michigan! You have such a vast knowledge of Zion I assumed you were local to the area. I m in Cincinnati myself and wish I
        Message 3 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
          Wow Joe, didn't realize you were in Michigan! You have such a vast knowledge of Zion I assumed you were local to the area. I'm in Cincinnati myself and wish I could talk my friends into a Zion trip even once a year!.

          When you go, do you usually fly or drive out? It's 24 hours of straight driving for me to get from Cincy to Escalante and I would imagine Michigan is the same.

          I had hoped to get out there this September but it's not looking like my friend will be able to swing it so it may not be untill the following year before I can return.

          Sigh.... I need to win the lottery and just buy a second home in St. George!

          Jeff

          On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joe Braun <joe@...> wrote:
           

          The National Geographic Trails Illustrated map for Zion is the perfect companion (costs about $10 US). It's pamphlet size, shows the entire park, and is easy to take in your pack.

          The maps on my site are cut-outs of the larger USGS topo maps, so it should be easy enough to compare the two and find where my map and your intended hikes fit into the bigger picture.

          And I can totally relate to the "pleasant" scenery. I live in Michigan but I have been returning to Zion 1-2 times a year for the past 35 years. I never get sick of it and yes, just seeing a sandstone formation or hiking in a simple desert drainage is enough to put me in my happy place even if it's not considered "stunning" scenery! :)

          --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "katecharnley@..." <katecharnley@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi
          >
          > Thank you so much for all your help and ideas. Beginning to think we really need about three months in Zion alone! Just a couple more points if you don't mind. Could you recommend a good map? I'm wondering if it is straight forward to identify the starting point of the trails Joe mentions in the Upper East Canyon. Are these hikes trail-marked or is the route pretty self evident once you're there? We're keen not to be incompetent Brits who get lost! In the UK we always carry a map and compass. Presumably we'll be able to get clued up at an Information Centre in Springdale.
          >
          > Finally I'm expecting the weather to be chilly in the early mornings and getting pretty warm later. Hopefully no rain. Is that about right?
          >
          > And last of all, Joe refers to "pleasant hikes".....believe me, they'll all be stunning to us - can you imagine seeing a hoodoo or a mesa when you're used to heather and moorland (albeit beautiful!)
          >
          > Thanks once more.
          >
          > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, Craig A Schneiderman <craig326@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hey Kate,
          > > I am sure everyone has some great suggestions and I thought I would add some of my own. When I was there last year my favorite all-around hike was hiking up the Angels Landing trail from the beginning and bypassing the difficult part and then taking the West Rim Trail from there. There are some SPECTACULAR views all along the way and the hiking is fantastic. You can walk as far as you want and then turn back whenever you are ready. I highly recommend it. Yes, doing the entire West Rim is too long for a day for you. Another favorite hike (one you did mention) was The Canyon Overlook Trail. Yes, it is short - but it is the best all around hike in the area IMHO - including the topography and the view at the end. You can do this on the way out on your way to Bryce out of the East gate. Also, along that same road out there are many places you can park your car and just hike on the slickrocks . One that stands out is called Seperation Canyon= awesome experience. You can find more about that-@ zionnationalpark.com
          > >
          > > Have a great time!
          > > Best,
          > > Craig
          > >
          > > ---- Original Message -----
          > > From: katecharnley@
          > > To: Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:51 PM
          > > Subject: [Zion_National_Park_Hiking] Not too easy but not too hard hikes in Zion!
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > My husband and I will be in Zion 3 to 6 May. First day will travel from LV and recover from flight from UK. After Zion we'll have an overnight stay in Bryce to do Peekaboo Queens Garden Navajo Trail then on to Boulder to do a couple of days guided hikes/canyoneering.
          > > We want to make the most of Zion but despite trying hard to research the options I'm struggling to grasp the topography and to work out which hikes would suit us - 50+ year olds, fairly fit, used to hiking in UK. We would like to do the Observation Point hike and possibly The Narrows weather and conditions permitting. If we can't do The Narrows, what would be a good alternative please? Don't have the head for heights for Angel's Landing or Hidden Canyon and think the West Rim would be too long for a day and Canyon Overlook too short! Keen to escape the crowds if possible and get off the beaten track a little whilst acknowledging that Zion will be a whole new experience to us. Also what would be a good hike that we could stop off and do on the last day when we head out of Zion to our next stop in Bryce?
          > > Just love Joe Braun's photos and can't wait to see it all for ourselves.
          > > Any suggestions gratefully received!
          > >
          >




          --
          Jeff Schaber
          ------------------

          Be who you are, say what you feel.
          Because those that mind don't matter
          and those that matter don't mind!

          ~Dr. Seuss~
        • Joe Braun
          Hi Jeff - Yes, I might be one of Zion s more obsessive/compulsive long-term tourists. A year would be amiss if I didn t return to SW Utah at least once or
          Message 4 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
            Hi Jeff - Yes, I might be one of Zion's more obsessive/compulsive long-term tourists. A year would be amiss if I didn't return to SW Utah at least once or twice. I'd love to win the lottery as well; this day job thing keeps me from hiking and shooting as much as I'd like.

            We typically fly into Vegas and then drive to Springdale. If you pick the right weeks and fly red-eye, it can be pretty cheap. In the next few years, I'd like to do a longer road trip; my daughter's almost at the age where she would appreciate and remember a trip like that and I'd love to dig into SE Utah some more. -Joe

            --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Schaber <jeffschaber@...> wrote:
            >
            > Wow Joe, didn't realize you were in Michigan! You have such a vast
            > knowledge of Zion I assumed you were local to the area. I'm in Cincinnati
            > myself and wish I could talk my friends into a Zion trip even once a year!.
            >
            > When you go, do you usually fly or drive out? It's 24 hours of straight
            > driving for me to get from Cincy to Escalante and I would imagine Michigan
            > is the same.
            >
            > I had hoped to get out there this September but it's not looking like my
            > friend will be able to swing it so it may not be untill the following year
            > before I can return.
            >
            > Sigh.... I need to win the lottery and just buy a second home in St. George!
            >
            > Jeff
            >
            > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joe Braun <joe@...> wrote:
            >
            > > **
            > >
            > >
            > > The National Geographic Trails Illustrated map for Zion is the perfect
            > > companion (costs about $10 US). It's pamphlet size, shows the entire park,
            > > and is easy to take in your pack.
            > >
            > > The maps on my site are cut-outs of the larger USGS topo maps, so it
            > > should be easy enough to compare the two and find where my map and your
            > > intended hikes fit into the bigger picture.
            > >
            > > And I can totally relate to the "pleasant" scenery. I live in Michigan but
            > > I have been returning to Zion 1-2 times a year for the past 35 years. I
            > > never get sick of it and yes, just seeing a sandstone formation or hiking
            > > in a simple desert drainage is enough to put me in my happy place even if
            > > it's not considered "stunning" scenery! :)
            > >
            > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "katecharnley@"
            > > <katecharnley@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi
            > > >
            > > > Thank you so much for all your help and ideas. Beginning to think we
            > > really need about three months in Zion alone! Just a couple more points if
            > > you don't mind. Could you recommend a good map? I'm wondering if it is
            > > straight forward to identify the starting point of the trails Joe mentions
            > > in the Upper East Canyon. Are these hikes trail-marked or is the route
            > > pretty self evident once you're there? We're keen not to be incompetent
            > > Brits who get lost! In the UK we always carry a map and compass. Presumably
            > > we'll be able to get clued up at an Information Centre in Springdale.
            > > >
            > > > Finally I'm expecting the weather to be chilly in the early mornings and
            > > getting pretty warm later. Hopefully no rain. Is that about right?
            > > >
            > > > And last of all, Joe refers to "pleasant hikes".....believe me, they'll
            > > all be stunning to us - can you imagine seeing a hoodoo or a mesa when
            > > you're used to heather and moorland (albeit beautiful!)
            > > >
            > > > Thanks once more.
            > > >
            > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, Craig A Schneiderman
            > > <craig326@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Hey Kate,
            > > > > I am sure everyone has some great suggestions and I thought I would
            > > add some of my own. When I was there last year my favorite all-around hike
            > > was hiking up the Angels Landing trail from the beginning and bypassing the
            > > difficult part and then taking the West Rim Trail from there. There are
            > > some SPECTACULAR views all along the way and the hiking is fantastic. You
            > > can walk as far as you want and then turn back whenever you are ready. I
            > > highly recommend it. Yes, doing the entire West Rim is too long for a day
            > > for you. Another favorite hike (one you did mention) was The Canyon
            > > Overlook Trail. Yes, it is short - but it is the best all around hike in
            > > the area IMHO - including the topography and the view at the end. You can
            > > do this on the way out on your way to Bryce out of the East gate. Also,
            > > along that same road out there are many places you can park your car and
            > > just hike on the slickrocks . One that stands out is called Seperation
            > > Canyon= awesome experience. You can find more about that-@
            > > zionnationalpark.com
            > > > >
            > > > > Have a great time!
            > > > > Best,
            > > > > Craig
            > > > >
            > > > > ---- Original Message -----
            > > > > From: katecharnley@
            > > > > To: Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:51 PM
            > > > > Subject: [Zion_National_Park_Hiking] Not too easy but not too hard
            > > hikes in Zion!
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > My husband and I will be in Zion 3 to 6 May. First day will travel
            > > from LV and recover from flight from UK. After Zion we'll have an overnight
            > > stay in Bryce to do Peekaboo Queens Garden Navajo Trail then on to Boulder
            > > to do a couple of days guided hikes/canyoneering.
            > > > > We want to make the most of Zion but despite trying hard to research
            > > the options I'm struggling to grasp the topography and to work out which
            > > hikes would suit us - 50+ year olds, fairly fit, used to hiking in UK. We
            > > would like to do the Observation Point hike and possibly The Narrows
            > > weather and conditions permitting. If we can't do The Narrows, what would
            > > be a good alternative please? Don't have the head for heights for Angel's
            > > Landing or Hidden Canyon and think the West Rim would be too long for a day
            > > and Canyon Overlook too short! Keen to escape the crowds if possible and
            > > get off the beaten track a little whilst acknowledging that Zion will be a
            > > whole new experience to us. Also what would be a good hike that we could
            > > stop off and do on the last day when we head out of Zion to our next stop
            > > in Bryce?
            > > > > Just love Joe Braun's photos and can't wait to see it all for
            > > ourselves.
            > > > > Any suggestions gratefully received!
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > --
            > Jeff Schaber
            > ------------------
            >
            > Be who you are, say what you feel.
            > Because those that mind don't matter
            > and those that matter don't mind!
            >
            > ~Dr. Seuss~
            >
          • Jeff Schaber
            Joe, When you re ready for a road trip let me know. We did 21 days in 2010 most of it in Zion and drove out (4 days of driving and 17 days of Zion, Bryce,
            Message 5 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
              Joe,

              When you're ready for a road trip let me know. We did 21 days in 2010 most of it in Zion and drove out (4 days of driving and 17 days of Zion, Bryce, Escalante, North RIm, and Mesa Verde). Camped the majority of the time and ate out of our coolers. The whole trip cost me $550 and that included all food, gas, camping and park fees.

              We spent a year planning so I have tons of info I can pass along. I'd love to spend a day out there hiking and shooting with you. Been a amateur photographer since I was 16 and am thoroughly impressed with your shots.

              I'll have to keep an eye on the flights to Las Vegas and just bite the bullet and go. Hate to do it alone but I've done that before.

              Jeff

              On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Joe Braun <joe@...> wrote:
               

              Hi Jeff - Yes, I might be one of Zion's more obsessive/compulsive long-term tourists. A year would be amiss if I didn't return to SW Utah at least once or twice. I'd love to win the lottery as well; this day job thing keeps me from hiking and shooting as much as I'd like.

              We typically fly into Vegas and then drive to Springdale. If you pick the right weeks and fly red-eye, it can be pretty cheap. In the next few years, I'd like to do a longer road trip; my daughter's almost at the age where she would appreciate and remember a trip like that and I'd love to dig into SE Utah some more. -Joe

              --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Schaber <jeffschaber@...> wrote:
              >
              > Wow Joe, didn't realize you were in Michigan! You have such a vast
              > knowledge of Zion I assumed you were local to the area. I'm in Cincinnati
              > myself and wish I could talk my friends into a Zion trip even once a year!.
              >
              > When you go, do you usually fly or drive out? It's 24 hours of straight
              > driving for me to get from Cincy to Escalante and I would imagine Michigan
              > is the same.
              >
              > I had hoped to get out there this September but it's not looking like my
              > friend will be able to swing it so it may not be untill the following year
              > before I can return.
              >
              > Sigh.... I need to win the lottery and just buy a second home in St. George!
              >
              > Jeff
              >
              > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Joe Braun <joe@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > The National Geographic Trails Illustrated map for Zion is the perfect
              > > companion (costs about $10 US). It's pamphlet size, shows the entire park,
              > > and is easy to take in your pack.
              > >
              > > The maps on my site are cut-outs of the larger USGS topo maps, so it
              > > should be easy enough to compare the two and find where my map and your
              > > intended hikes fit into the bigger picture.
              > >
              > > And I can totally relate to the "pleasant" scenery. I live in Michigan but
              > > I have been returning to Zion 1-2 times a year for the past 35 years. I
              > > never get sick of it and yes, just seeing a sandstone formation or hiking
              > > in a simple desert drainage is enough to put me in my happy place even if
              > > it's not considered "stunning" scenery! :)
              > >
              > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "katecharnley@"
              > > <katecharnley@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Hi
              > > >
              > > > Thank you so much for all your help and ideas. Beginning to think we
              > > really need about three months in Zion alone! Just a couple more points if
              > > you don't mind. Could you recommend a good map? I'm wondering if it is
              > > straight forward to identify the starting point of the trails Joe mentions
              > > in the Upper East Canyon. Are these hikes trail-marked or is the route
              > > pretty self evident once you're there? We're keen not to be incompetent
              > > Brits who get lost! In the UK we always carry a map and compass. Presumably
              > > we'll be able to get clued up at an Information Centre in Springdale.
              > > >
              > > > Finally I'm expecting the weather to be chilly in the early mornings and
              > > getting pretty warm later. Hopefully no rain. Is that about right?
              > > >
              > > > And last of all, Joe refers to "pleasant hikes".....believe me, they'll
              > > all be stunning to us - can you imagine seeing a hoodoo or a mesa when
              > > you're used to heather and moorland (albeit beautiful!)
              > > >
              > > > Thanks once more.
              > > >
              > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, Craig A Schneiderman
              > > <craig326@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hey Kate,
              > > > > I am sure everyone has some great suggestions and I thought I would
              > > add some of my own. When I was there last year my favorite all-around hike
              > > was hiking up the Angels Landing trail from the beginning and bypassing the
              > > difficult part and then taking the West Rim Trail from there. There are
              > > some SPECTACULAR views all along the way and the hiking is fantastic. You
              > > can walk as far as you want and then turn back whenever you are ready. I
              > > highly recommend it. Yes, doing the entire West Rim is too long for a day
              > > for you. Another favorite hike (one you did mention) was The Canyon
              > > Overlook Trail. Yes, it is short - but it is the best all around hike in
              > > the area IMHO - including the topography and the view at the end. You can
              > > do this on the way out on your way to Bryce out of the East gate. Also,
              > > along that same road out there are many places you can park your car and
              > > just hike on the slickrocks . One that stands out is called Seperation
              > > Canyon= awesome experience. You can find more about that-@
              > > zionnationalpark.com
              > > > >
              > > > > Have a great time!
              > > > > Best,
              > > > > Craig
              > > > >
              > > > > ---- Original Message -----
              > > > > From: katecharnley@
              > > > > To: Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 1:51 PM
              > > > > Subject: [Zion_National_Park_Hiking] Not too easy but not too hard
              > > hikes in Zion!
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > My husband and I will be in Zion 3 to 6 May. First day will travel
              > > from LV and recover from flight from UK. After Zion we'll have an overnight
              > > stay in Bryce to do Peekaboo Queens Garden Navajo Trail then on to Boulder
              > > to do a couple of days guided hikes/canyoneering.
              > > > > We want to make the most of Zion but despite trying hard to research
              > > the options I'm struggling to grasp the topography and to work out which
              > > hikes would suit us - 50+ year olds, fairly fit, used to hiking in UK. We
              > > would like to do the Observation Point hike and possibly The Narrows
              > > weather and conditions permitting. If we can't do The Narrows, what would
              > > be a good alternative please? Don't have the head for heights for Angel's
              > > Landing or Hidden Canyon and think the West Rim would be too long for a day
              > > and Canyon Overlook too short! Keen to escape the crowds if possible and
              > > get off the beaten track a little whilst acknowledging that Zion will be a
              > > whole new experience to us. Also what would be a good hike that we could
              > > stop off and do on the last day when we head out of Zion to our next stop
              > > in Bryce?
              > > > > Just love Joe Braun's photos and can't wait to see it all for
              > > ourselves.
              > > > > Any suggestions gratefully received!
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Jeff Schaber
              > ------------------
              >
              > Be who you are, say what you feel.
              > Because those that mind don't matter
              > and those that matter don't mind!
              >
              > ~Dr. Seuss~
              >




              --
              Jeff Schaber
              ------------------

              Be who you are, say what you feel.
              Because those that mind don't matter
              and those that matter don't mind!

              ~Dr. Seuss~
            • mojave_ben
              Do you really need high clearance to get to the trailhead for Observation Point from the east side? I ve used the (other) east side trailhead for Deertrap and
              Message 6 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
                Do you really need high clearance to get to the trailhead for Observation Point from the east side? I've used the (other) east side trailhead for Deertrap and Cable mountains and it's fine except I park before the last steep bit going through the gate into the parking area. Was thinking of going to back to Obs on this year's trip, from the east.

                The trail up from the canyon really is quite safe, though I guess if you're acrophobic it could freak you out. It is at least 6 feet wide and clean. I had no issue with my son doing it with us when he was 9 (without the belay I sometimes give him).

                To the OP, yes, you could spend months there. Many of us who don't have to good fortune to live there make a trip at least once a year :)

                It will be interesting to see when the Narrows open this year. Last year they were very late due to heavy snow pack. I don't know what the snow is like this year, any comments? Looking at the USGS guage in Springdale, we're clearly seeing spring melt (significant diurnal variation in flows).

                There are SO MANY place to go in Zion :) Browse Joe's site and Tanya and Bo's site (is their book available yet? It will be a super resource!) and you'll find a month's worth of options. After that, start making up your own!
              • Joe Braun
                For the most part the road to the East Mesa Trailhead can be done by a standard 2wd car, but there is one section that typically gets quite gutted and pitted
                Message 7 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
                  For the most part the road to the East Mesa Trailhead can be done by a standard 2wd car, but there is one section that typically gets quite gutted and pitted near the trailhead and could be trouble for a little car. I was last here in 2009 and I found a place on the side of the road to park my car out of the way before the bad spot. It only added an extra 1/4 mile to my hike, so it was no big deal. But since this is a one-lane dirt road with private land surrounding, make sure you park out of the way and obey any posted signs.

                  http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/eastmesatrailmap.cfm

                  I'm curious about snowm elt as well. Narrows open in late May perhaps? That hasn't happened in several years. -Joe


                  --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mojave_ben" <mojave_ben@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Do you really need high clearance to get to the trailhead for Observation Point from the east side? I've used the (other) east side trailhead for Deertrap and Cable mountains and it's fine except I park before the last steep bit going through the gate into the parking area. Was thinking of going to back to Obs on this year's trip, from the east.
                  >
                  > The trail up from the canyon really is quite safe, though I guess if you're acrophobic it could freak you out. It is at least 6 feet wide and clean. I had no issue with my son doing it with us when he was 9 (without the belay I sometimes give him).
                  >
                  > To the OP, yes, you could spend months there. Many of us who don't have to good fortune to live there make a trip at least once a year :)
                  >
                  > It will be interesting to see when the Narrows open this year. Last year they were very late due to heavy snow pack. I don't know what the snow is like this year, any comments? Looking at the USGS guage in Springdale, we're clearly seeing spring melt (significant diurnal variation in flows).
                  >
                  > There are SO MANY place to go in Zion :) Browse Joe's site and Tanya and Bo's site (is their book available yet? It will be a super resource!) and you'll find a month's worth of options. After that, start making up your own!
                  >
                • Jeff Schaber
                  Ben, We had some unusual rains in August when we went to the East Mesa trail head and I was driving an F-150. There were just a few areas where the road had
                  Message 8 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
                    Ben,

                    We had some unusual rains in August when we went to the East Mesa trail head and I was driving an F-150. There were just a few areas where the road had some uneven roll to it is why I suggested a high clearance vehicle. Wouldn't want to damage a rental car.

                    When we did the Observation point trail the first time we had already hiked from the start of the East Rim trail so we were pretty tired by the time we got to the cliff face. The wind was blowing pretty hard as well so I wasn't as sure of my footing as I like to be.

                    Still, it's an exhilarating hike and well worth doing. I took some friends out there in 2010 that have a fear of heights so we went the East Mesa trail route (4 miles round trip I think) and very little to no exposure so they got to see the view without confronting their fears.

                    I'm not sure what the road is like to the trail head for Deer trap as I haven't done that hike, we've only used the East Mesa trail for Observation point and to drop into Mystery Canyon.

                    Jeff

                    On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 1:26 PM, mojave_ben <mojave_ben@...> wrote:
                     

                    Do you really need high clearance to get to the trailhead for Observation Point from the east side? I've used the (other) east side trailhead for Deertrap and Cable mountains and it's fine except I park before the last steep bit going through the gate into the parking area. Was thinking of going to back to Obs on this year's trip, from the east.

                    The trail up from the canyon really is quite safe, though I guess if you're acrophobic it could freak you out. It is at least 6 feet wide and clean. I had no issue with my son doing it with us when he was 9 (without the belay I sometimes give him).

                    To the OP, yes, you could spend months there. Many of us who don't have to good fortune to live there make a trip at least once a year :)

                    It will be interesting to see when the Narrows open this year. Last year they were very late due to heavy snow pack. I don't know what the snow is like this year, any comments? Looking at the USGS guage in Springdale, we're clearly seeing spring melt (significant diurnal variation in flows).

                    There are SO MANY place to go in Zion :) Browse Joe's site and Tanya and Bo's site (is their book available yet? It will be a super resource!) and you'll find a month's worth of options. After that, start making up your own!




                    --
                    Jeff Schaber
                    ------------------

                    Be who you are, say what you feel.
                    Because those that mind don't matter
                    and those that matter don't mind!

                    ~Dr. Seuss~
                  • jeff
                    Just adding a few more thoughts for the folks coming from across the pond. The first 80 miles enroute from Vegas to Zion can be a bit tedious. You can always
                    Message 9 of 24 , Mar 15, 2012
                      Just adding a few more thoughts for the folks coming from across the pond.


                      The first 80 miles enroute from Vegas to Zion can be a bit tedious.
                      You can always stop at Mesquite: the first casino Casablanca has a Starbucks inside should you need a burst of caffeine.

                      Shortly thereafter you'll drive thru the Virgin River Gorge, very scenic, and then not too long after arrive in St George which has large grocery stores including Walmart. You'll exit Interstate 15 soon after and then travel on rt 9 thru Hurricane. Last chance to stock up on supplies at a Walmart or grocery store and pay reasonable prices. A case of bottled water will come in handy.

                      Don't know if you're staying in the park or in Springdale, but towards evening of the 3rd, you might wind down by taking a ride out to Grafton via Bridge St in Rockville. If you were fans of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, you'll appreciate the scenery there.

                      On the 4th, if jet lag still has you down, you might travel back on rt 9 to the town of Virgin and ride up the Kolob Terrace Rd to the Wildcat Trailhead parking lot. From there you can do the 2 mile one way Northgate Peaks Trail. Joe Braun mentioned this trail in one of his posts. I think it's one of the best hikes in the park. For one thing it's level. Secondly and thirdly, it's very alpine and it's very scenic. When you get to the end of this trail at an informal outlook you do have options of continuing on. You could for example climb the East Northgate Peak, the one on the left at the overlook. It's basically a walkup to a very amazing view which you'll likely have all to yourself.


                      After returning to your car you could continue up the Kolob Terrace Rd to Lava Point and the view point there. If you're feeling energized, you could walk down to the West Rim trailhead and travel along that trail for as long as you like. From that trailhead the trail itself continues along a ridgetop for several fairly level miles. "Thanks" to a forest fire the views along this part of the trail are unrestricted. Shade will also be in short supply. Probably not best to hike too far if it's too hot.

                      So on the 5th you might want to shuttle about the main canyon. As discussed in earlier posts the hike to Observation Pt would be a terrific choice. You'd want to start in the morning. The initial mile or so of the hike gets the afternoon sun. You'll want to be hiking down it and not up it in the p.m. The Riverwalk or the Emerald Pools hike would be better afternoon choices.

                      On your way out on the 6th might be the time to do the Overlook hike. A short distance further east from where that hike starts is access to the Twin Pines Arch hike. No formal trail exists. You can see the arch from the road if you look carefully. I believe Joe's site as well as Bo and Tanya's contains route information. Above the arch is Progeny Peak. Scrambling to the top is a bit more difficult than walking up East Northgate, but the views are worth the extra effort. Again route descriptions can be found on the above mentioned sites.
                      Continuing along rt 9 on the east side of Zion, the scenery is totally in your face. Pull over often and explore. Petroglyph Canyon makes for a quick interesting side trip.

                      And when you finally make it all the way thru the park and continue on to the Mt Carmel Junction and just before you make a left onto rt 89 bound for Bryce, well, right there on the right side is a Best Western motel and restaurant. And that's where you can get a real smack dab delicious slice of pie. jeff



                      --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Schaber <jeffschaber@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ben,
                      >
                      > We had some unusual rains in August when we went to the East Mesa trail
                      > head and I was driving an F-150. There were just a few areas where the road
                      > had some uneven roll to it is why I suggested a high clearance vehicle.
                      > Wouldn't want to damage a rental car.
                      >
                      > When we did the Observation point trail the first time we had already hiked
                      > from the start of the East Rim trail so we were pretty tired by the time we
                      > got to the cliff face. The wind was blowing pretty hard as well so I wasn't
                      > as sure of my footing as I like to be.
                      >
                      > Still, it's an exhilarating hike and well worth doing. I took some friends
                      > out there in 2010 that have a fear of heights so we went the East Mesa
                      > trail route (4 miles round trip I think) and very little to no exposure so
                      > they got to see the view without confronting their fears.
                      >
                      > I'm not sure what the road is like to the trail head for Deer trap as I
                      > haven't done that hike, we've only used the East Mesa trail for Observation
                      > point and to drop into Mystery Canyon.
                      >
                      > Jeff
                      >
                      > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 1:26 PM, mojave_ben <mojave_ben@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Do you really need high clearance to get to the trailhead for Observation
                      > > Point from the east side? I've used the (other) east side trailhead for
                      > > Deertrap and Cable mountains and it's fine except I park before the last
                      > > steep bit going through the gate into the parking area. Was thinking of
                      > > going to back to Obs on this year's trip, from the east.
                      > >
                      > > The trail up from the canyon really is quite safe, though I guess if
                      > > you're acrophobic it could freak you out. It is at least 6 feet wide and
                      > > clean. I had no issue with my son doing it with us when he was 9 (without
                      > > the belay I sometimes give him).
                      > >
                      > > To the OP, yes, you could spend months there. Many of us who don't have to
                      > > good fortune to live there make a trip at least once a year :)
                      > >
                      > > It will be interesting to see when the Narrows open this year. Last year
                      > > they were very late due to heavy snow pack. I don't know what the snow is
                      > > like this year, any comments? Looking at the USGS guage in Springdale,
                      > > we're clearly seeing spring melt (significant diurnal variation in flows).
                      > >
                      > > There are SO MANY place to go in Zion :) Browse Joe's site and Tanya and
                      > > Bo's site (is their book available yet? It will be a super resource!) and
                      > > you'll find a month's worth of options. After that, start making up your
                      > > own!
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Jeff Schaber
                      > ------------------
                      >
                      > Be who you are, say what you feel.
                      > Because those that mind don't matter
                      > and those that matter don't mind!
                      >
                      > ~Dr. Seuss~
                      >
                    • katecharnley@rocketmail.com
                      Thank you so much Jeff - that is all so helpful and so many great suggestions. I sent off for maps from Amazon yesterday and really feel as if it s definitely
                      Message 10 of 24 , Mar 16, 2012
                        Thank you so much Jeff - that is all so helpful and so many great suggestions. I sent off for maps from Amazon yesterday and really feel as if it's definitely going to happen now! Thanks once more. By the way, if you're ever tempted to head east across the "pond" there's some great hiking here. Not quite as dramatic as Zion but stunningly beautiful and with the constant added challenge of The Weather!

                        --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "jeff" <jb14ers@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Just adding a few more thoughts for the folks coming from across the pond.
                        >
                        >
                        > The first 80 miles enroute from Vegas to Zion can be a bit tedious.
                        > You can always stop at Mesquite: the first casino Casablanca has a Starbucks inside should you need a burst of caffeine.
                        >
                        > Shortly thereafter you'll drive thru the Virgin River Gorge, very scenic, and then not too long after arrive in St George which has large grocery stores including Walmart. You'll exit Interstate 15 soon after and then travel on rt 9 thru Hurricane. Last chance to stock up on supplies at a Walmart or grocery store and pay reasonable prices. A case of bottled water will come in handy.
                        >
                        > Don't know if you're staying in the park or in Springdale, but towards evening of the 3rd, you might wind down by taking a ride out to Grafton via Bridge St in Rockville. If you were fans of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, you'll appreciate the scenery there.
                        >
                        > On the 4th, if jet lag still has you down, you might travel back on rt 9 to the town of Virgin and ride up the Kolob Terrace Rd to the Wildcat Trailhead parking lot. From there you can do the 2 mile one way Northgate Peaks Trail. Joe Braun mentioned this trail in one of his posts. I think it's one of the best hikes in the park. For one thing it's level. Secondly and thirdly, it's very alpine and it's very scenic. When you get to the end of this trail at an informal outlook you do have options of continuing on. You could for example climb the East Northgate Peak, the one on the left at the overlook. It's basically a walkup to a very amazing view which you'll likely have all to yourself.
                        >
                        >
                        > After returning to your car you could continue up the Kolob Terrace Rd to Lava Point and the view point there. If you're feeling energized, you could walk down to the West Rim trailhead and travel along that trail for as long as you like. From that trailhead the trail itself continues along a ridgetop for several fairly level miles. "Thanks" to a forest fire the views along this part of the trail are unrestricted. Shade will also be in short supply. Probably not best to hike too far if it's too hot.
                        >
                        > So on the 5th you might want to shuttle about the main canyon. As discussed in earlier posts the hike to Observation Pt would be a terrific choice. You'd want to start in the morning. The initial mile or so of the hike gets the afternoon sun. You'll want to be hiking down it and not up it in the p.m. The Riverwalk or the Emerald Pools hike would be better afternoon choices.
                        >
                        > On your way out on the 6th might be the time to do the Overlook hike. A short distance further east from where that hike starts is access to the Twin Pines Arch hike. No formal trail exists. You can see the arch from the road if you look carefully. I believe Joe's site as well as Bo and Tanya's contains route information. Above the arch is Progeny Peak. Scrambling to the top is a bit more difficult than walking up East Northgate, but the views are worth the extra effort. Again route descriptions can be found on the above mentioned sites.
                        > Continuing along rt 9 on the east side of Zion, the scenery is totally in your face. Pull over often and explore. Petroglyph Canyon makes for a quick interesting side trip.
                        >
                        > And when you finally make it all the way thru the park and continue on to the Mt Carmel Junction and just before you make a left onto rt 89 bound for Bryce, well, right there on the right side is a Best Western motel and restaurant. And that's where you can get a real smack dab delicious slice of pie. jeff
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Schaber <jeffschaber@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Ben,
                        > >
                        > > We had some unusual rains in August when we went to the East Mesa trail
                        > > head and I was driving an F-150. There were just a few areas where the road
                        > > had some uneven roll to it is why I suggested a high clearance vehicle.
                        > > Wouldn't want to damage a rental car.
                        > >
                        > > When we did the Observation point trail the first time we had already hiked
                        > > from the start of the East Rim trail so we were pretty tired by the time we
                        > > got to the cliff face. The wind was blowing pretty hard as well so I wasn't
                        > > as sure of my footing as I like to be.
                        > >
                        > > Still, it's an exhilarating hike and well worth doing. I took some friends
                        > > out there in 2010 that have a fear of heights so we went the East Mesa
                        > > trail route (4 miles round trip I think) and very little to no exposure so
                        > > they got to see the view without confronting their fears.
                        > >
                        > > I'm not sure what the road is like to the trail head for Deer trap as I
                        > > haven't done that hike, we've only used the East Mesa trail for Observation
                        > > point and to drop into Mystery Canyon.
                        > >
                        > > Jeff
                        > >
                        > > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 1:26 PM, mojave_ben <mojave_ben@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > **
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Do you really need high clearance to get to the trailhead for Observation
                        > > > Point from the east side? I've used the (other) east side trailhead for
                        > > > Deertrap and Cable mountains and it's fine except I park before the last
                        > > > steep bit going through the gate into the parking area. Was thinking of
                        > > > going to back to Obs on this year's trip, from the east.
                        > > >
                        > > > The trail up from the canyon really is quite safe, though I guess if
                        > > > you're acrophobic it could freak you out. It is at least 6 feet wide and
                        > > > clean. I had no issue with my son doing it with us when he was 9 (without
                        > > > the belay I sometimes give him).
                        > > >
                        > > > To the OP, yes, you could spend months there. Many of us who don't have to
                        > > > good fortune to live there make a trip at least once a year :)
                        > > >
                        > > > It will be interesting to see when the Narrows open this year. Last year
                        > > > they were very late due to heavy snow pack. I don't know what the snow is
                        > > > like this year, any comments? Looking at the USGS guage in Springdale,
                        > > > we're clearly seeing spring melt (significant diurnal variation in flows).
                        > > >
                        > > > There are SO MANY place to go in Zion :) Browse Joe's site and Tanya and
                        > > > Bo's site (is their book available yet? It will be a super resource!) and
                        > > > you'll find a month's worth of options. After that, start making up your
                        > > > own!
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --
                        > > Jeff Schaber
                        > > ------------------
                        > >
                        > > Be who you are, say what you feel.
                        > > Because those that mind don't matter
                        > > and those that matter don't mind!
                        > >
                        > > ~Dr. Seuss~
                        > >
                        >
                      • TomJones
                        There has been some speculation in town that the Narrows might not close AT ALL! But, there are a couple feet of snow at Lava Point, so even though the
                        Message 11 of 24 , Mar 16, 2012
                          There has been some speculation in town that the Narrows might not close AT ALL! But, there are a couple feet of snow at Lava Point, so even though the snowpack is very below average, the closure this year is likely to be quite short.

                          Last night's surge hit almost 140 cfs, so if this warm spell continues, the Narrows will be 'closed' tomorrow. When this warm spell cools off, the flow will likely go down and the Narrows open again. And so it goes. My guess would be that the Narrows will be open for the season the first week in May.

                          The road to the East Mesa Trail for Observation Point: this road is much more challenging than the East Rim Trail (Cable/Deertrap). It varies widely from year to year, rainy period to rainy period. Can be very difficult, with deep ruts. Any rain makes it worse. But, the dirt roads are "improved" (graveled) out to about 1 mile from the end, so you can always park at Fir Road and walk from there. (On Google Maps, the 'road' marked Rocky Road is not actually a road that has been driven in the last 10 years, though my 4WD Honda Civic Wagon spent two days there a couple years ago.)

                          Tom

                          --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Braun" <joe@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > For the most part the road to the East Mesa Trailhead can be done by a standard 2wd car, but there is one section that typically gets quite gutted and pitted near the trailhead and could be trouble for a little car. I was last here in 2009 and I found a place on the side of the road to park my car out of the way before the bad spot. It only added an extra 1/4 mile to my hike, so it was no big deal. But since this is a one-lane dirt road with private land surrounding, make sure you park out of the way and obey any posted signs.
                          >
                          > http://www.citrusmilo.com/zionguide/eastmesatrailmap.cfm
                          >
                          > I'm curious about snowm elt as well. Narrows open in late May perhaps? That hasn't happened in several years. -Joe
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mojave_ben" <mojave_ben@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Do you really need high clearance to get to the trailhead for Observation Point from the east side? I've used the (other) east side trailhead for Deertrap and Cable mountains and it's fine except I park before the last steep bit going through the gate into the parking area. Was thinking of going to back to Obs on this year's trip, from the east.
                          > >
                          > > The trail up from the canyon really is quite safe, though I guess if you're acrophobic it could freak you out. It is at least 6 feet wide and clean. I had no issue with my son doing it with us when he was 9 (without the belay I sometimes give him).
                          > >
                          > > To the OP, yes, you could spend months there. Many of us who don't have to good fortune to live there make a trip at least once a year :)
                          > >
                          > > It will be interesting to see when the Narrows open this year. Last year they were very late due to heavy snow pack. I don't know what the snow is like this year, any comments? Looking at the USGS guage in Springdale, we're clearly seeing spring melt (significant diurnal variation in flows).
                          > >
                          > > There are SO MANY place to go in Zion :) Browse Joe's site and Tanya and Bo's site (is their book available yet? It will be a super resource!) and you'll find a month's worth of options. After that, start making up your own!
                          > >
                          >
                        • TomJones
                          Here is a link to the water gauge on the Virgin North Fork. Top-down hike is closed when the river is above 120 cfs; bottom up is closed and nearby canyons,
                          Message 12 of 24 , Mar 16, 2012
                            Here is a link to the water gauge on the Virgin North Fork. Top-down hike is closed when the river is above 120 cfs; bottom up is closed and nearby canyons, when the river is above 140 cfs. To open, the river has to be below the stated level for 48 hours.

                            http://waterdata.usgs.gov/ut/nwis/uv/?site_no=09405500&PARAmeter_cd=00065,00060,00010,72020

                            Tom

                            --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "TomJones" <ratagonia@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > There has been some speculation in town that the Narrows might not close AT ALL! But, there are a couple feet of snow at Lava Point, so even though the snowpack is very below average, the closure this year is likely to be quite short.
                            >
                            > Last night's surge hit almost 140 cfs, so if this warm spell continues, the Narrows will be 'closed' tomorrow. When this warm spell cools off, the flow will likely go down and the Narrows open again. And so it goes. My guess would be that the Narrows will be open for the season the first week in May.
                            >
                          • jeff
                            Alas, alas, my hiking in the English countryside has been limited to Hyde Park. Now I did get lost in the fog once trying to find my way to Folkestone.
                            Message 13 of 24 , Mar 16, 2012
                              Alas, alas, my hiking in the English countryside has been limited to Hyde Park. Now I did get lost in the fog once trying to find my way to Folkestone. Challenging enough just to stay on the left side of the road but what do you do when you can't even be sure if you're actually on the road? Other than that adventure I found the weather in the London area to be fabulous. Then again my visits were before global warming so I have no idea what you are experiencing now weatherwise.

                              As for maps I hope you ordered the National Geographic one for Zion that JoeB mentioned. Most of the trails and access roads discussed in this thread can be found on that map. Now when you get to Bryce, you should receive a free brochure/map that will contain the trails for that park. You shouldn't need to purchase a more elaborate map in order to do the popular trails in Bryce.

                              When I'm driving in the area I ususally refer to a road map put out by the Utah Travel Council entitled Southwestern Utah. It covers all the places you'll be visiting and lists additional scenic sites worth visiting. Not sure if this map is still being published, but if so you'd find it at the Zion Visitor Center bookstore.

                              And finally, if you are returning to Vegas from Boulder, you might consider taking Route 14 off of Route 89 to get to I15. Instead of going back thru Zion, you'll be taking the high road thru some beautifjul alpine country. One interesting short sidetrip would be to Cedar Breaks National Monument. It's like being at Bryce only you look up instead of down.

                              Once you arrive back at I15 at Cedar City you can also get off again a few miles further south to visit the Kolob Section of Zion. Just doing the drive to the end of the Kolob road and back would be worth it. jeff

                              --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "katecharnley@..." <katecharnley@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Thank you so much Jeff - that is all so helpful and so many great suggestions. I sent off for maps from Amazon yesterday and really feel as if it's definitely going to happen now! Thanks once more. By the way, if you're ever tempted to head east across the "pond" there's some great hiking here. Not quite as dramatic as Zion but stunningly beautiful and with the constant added challenge of The Weather!
                              >
                              > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "jeff" <jb14ers@>
                            • TomJones
                              Route 14 from Route 89 to Cedar City is closed. There was a big landslide last fall, and they decided to wait until the construction season to rebuild the
                              Message 14 of 24 , Mar 17, 2012
                                Route 14 from Route 89 to Cedar City is closed. There was a big landslide last fall, and they decided to wait until the construction season to rebuild the road. It IS a great piece of scenery, but it does not go through to Cedar City at the moment.

                                Tom

                                --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "jeff" <jb14ers@...> wrote:
                                >
                                ...
                                >
                                > And finally, if you are returning to Vegas from Boulder, you might consider taking Route 14 off of Route 89 to get to I15. Instead of going back thru Zion, you'll be taking the high road thru some beautifjul alpine country. One interesting short sidetrip would be to Cedar Breaks National Monument. It's like being at Bryce only you look up instead of down.
                                >
                                > Once you arrive back at I15 at Cedar City you can also get off again a few miles further south to visit the Kolob Section of Zion. Just doing the drive to the end of the Kolob road and back would be worth it. jeff
                                >
                              • jeff
                                Good catch, Tom. Limited thru access probably won t happen until June 1. Hopefully traveling back thru Zion via rt 9 won t seem like a rerun. Please disregard
                                Message 15 of 24 , Mar 17, 2012
                                  Good catch, Tom. Limited thru access probably won't happen until June 1. Hopefully traveling back thru Zion via rt 9 won't seem like a rerun. Please disregard my previous post suggestion. Apparently, I'm still in a fog. jeff


                                  -- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "TomJones" <ratagonia@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Route 14 from Route 89 to Cedar City is closed. There was a big landslide last fall, and they decided to wait until the construction season to rebuild the road. It IS a great piece of scenery, but it does not go through to Cedar City at the moment.
                                  >
                                  > Tom
                                  >
                                  > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "jeff" <jb14ers@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > ...
                                  > >
                                  > > And finally, if you are returning to Vegas from Boulder, you might consider taking Route 14 off of Route 89 to get to I15. Instead of going back thru Zion, you'll be taking the high road thru some beautifjul alpine country. One interesting short sidetrip would be to Cedar Breaks National Monument. It's like being at Bryce only you look up instead of down.
                                  > >
                                  > > Once you arrive back at I15 at Cedar City you can also get off again a few miles further south to visit the Kolob Section of Zion. Just doing the drive to the end of the Kolob road and back would be worth it. jeff
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • mojave_ben
                                  Thanks, Tom, for the comment on the east side road to Obs Pt trailhead! I ll second both East Northgate Peak and Progeny Peak as good non-technical peaks.
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Mar 17, 2012
                                    Thanks, Tom, for the comment on the east side road to Obs Pt trailhead!

                                    I'll second both East Northgate Peak and Progeny Peak as good non-technical peaks. Progeny was one of the first we did, when my son was about 8. You need a touch of route finding skill and be careful the last few minutes before the top as some of the crappy Zion sandstone tends to flake off in half inch thick sheets that can throw you. East Northgate has a more clearly established use trail (watch for it starting on the east side of the point you reach on the official trail) and feels less airy. Both are "junior" peaks that don't get above class 3 but you will feel really great on top of them!

                                    Northgate will be a tad cooler if things are hot, as you're shaded and there are shady bits most of the way out.
                                  • Cliff
                                    Are you thinking of Red Canyon? At Cedar Breaks you are looking down, just as in Bryce. Cliff ... One interesting short sidetrip would be to Cedar Breaks
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Mar 18, 2012
                                      Are you thinking of Red Canyon? At Cedar Breaks you are looking down, just as in Bryce.
                                      Cliff

                                      --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "jeff" <jb14ers@...> wrote:

                                      One interesting short sidetrip would be to Cedar Breaks National Monument. It's like being at Bryce only you look up instead of down.
                                    • jeff
                                      I m thinking I will no longer post while March Madness is in progress. jeff
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Mar 18, 2012
                                        I'm thinking I will no longer post while March Madness is in progress.
                                        jeff

                                        --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Cliff" <kol84b@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Are you thinking of Red Canyon? At Cedar Breaks you are looking down, just as in Bryce.
                                        > Cliff
                                        >
                                        > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "jeff" <jb14ers@> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > One interesting short sidetrip would be to Cedar Breaks National Monument. It's like being at Bryce only you look up instead of down.
                                        >
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