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Re: Zion's Mt. Kinesava Private Property Issues

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  • Joe Braun
    ... Do I have to answer this seriously or sarcastically? People want to spend big and buy up their little piece of heaven. And what better piece of heaven than
    Message 1 of 32 , Mar 1, 2011
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      > Why do people buy in a town on the edge of a national park
      > then try and make it so others cannot enjoy the park. :(

      Do I have to answer this seriously or sarcastically? People want to spend big and buy up their little piece of heaven. And what better piece of heaven than land bordering on protected national park? But of course, who would want outsiders (stinky hikers!) to then trample through your piece of heaven even if you built your piece of heaven right in the middle of a historical access route. *sigh* Public easements are quite common in many parts of the country, but not here.


      --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, tanya_o0o <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > Do you think it would be better starting there or at the Chinle
      > Trailhead? Bo was rewriting the start, but must have got side tracked.
      > He checked out the area during SAR training and it seems many Springdale
      > property owners are trying to block not only hikers but tourists from
      > parking in town.
      >
      > Why do people buy in a town on the edge of a national park then try and
      > make it so others cannot enjoy the park. :(
      >
      > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "RAM" <adkramoo@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > A slightly longer, less aesthetic and more rugged route can be done
      > from the road above the Pizza Noodle. We used to descend that way for
      > the variety. Add one hour coming and going.
      > > Ram
      > >
      > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tanya"
      > thunderbirdmail@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Yes, homeowners and home owners ass. Why do people build on the
      > edge of
      > > > a National Park then stop people from accessing that park? [#-o]
      > > >
      > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Clay Palmer"
      > > > <cpatflgaz@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > So is it that the new land owner do not want hikers coming thru
      > their
      > > > property to access the trails and routes?
      > > > > I remember down in Sabino Canyon in the Catalina's when an area
      > called
      > > > Rattlesnake Canyon became a developed area and the trails and canyon
      > > > were closed to hikers. They put up signs, fenced off the property
      > and
      > > > kept people out. Then over 30 years finally the owners f the
      > individual
      > > > properties came to notice how nice the canyon was and began allowing
      > the
      > > > hikers to return as long as they respected the landowners and made a
      > new
      > > > trail route thru the edge of the property. Now again it is again
      > > > accessable to hikers.
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tanya"
      > > > thunderbirdmail@ wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Awesome thoughts on the subject Joe. This bugged me all last
      > night.
      > > > So
      > > > > > few go and attempt this hike and a few control freaks have to
      > stop
      > > > them.
      > > > > > Does it really hurt them for a few people each year to park in
      > their
      > > > > > neighborhood?
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Braun"
      > <joe@>
      > > > > > wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Boy Tanya -- Situations like this make me very sad. Wonderful
      > > > > > locations around Zion, from Camp Creek to Beartrap Canyon,
      > Battle
      > > > > > Creek/Oak Creek/Eye of the Needle to Death Point, now to Mt.
      > > > Kinesava
      > > > > > are getting squeezed and forgotten due to access issues.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I recommend leaving your description in place with maps and
      > > > photos,
      > > > > > but add bold wording that it is now closed due to private
      > property
      > > > > > issues and say that people should not do this route and the
      > > > description
      > > > > > here is provided for historical purposes.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > As long as you are not recommending that people cross private
      > > > > > property, there is no crime in describing a route in Zion or BLM
      > > > even if
      > > > > > it is for historical purposes. Do not let a beautiful mountain
      > route
      > > > get
      > > > > > forgotten in history! Tom still has his description of Goose
      > Creek
      > > > > > (although this is an NPS zoning issue) and Shane still has Eye
      > of
      > > > the
      > > > > > Needle. They make it perfectly clear that you should not do
      > these
      > > > > > routes, but we can't let great spots get forgotten because
      > somebody
      > > > is
      > > > > > blocking access to the start. 20 years from now, access may be
      > > > different
      > > > > > and your description will be extremely valuable. -Joe
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tanya"
      > > > > > thunderbirdmail@ wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > What do you think? Should I leave the trail description
      > with
      > > > > > directions
      > > > > > > > to it? Is it best to delete the trailhead description and
      > gps
      > > > > > > > coordinates as I did or should I delete the entire thing?
      > > > [#-o]
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > I removed any part that has to do with the private
      > property.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-mt-kinesava.htm
      > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----
      > > > > > > > From: PM Design of Southern Utah pmdesign@
      > > > > > > > To: gotta@
      > > > > > > > Sent: Sat, February 12, 2011 2:22:05 PM
      > > > > > > > Subject: Mt. Kinesava and West Temple Trail description
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > To whom it may concern: The trailhead description given in
      > > > your
      > > > > > > > website for access to Mt Kinesava and the West temple
      > through
      > > > > > > > Serendipity Lane and Mukuntuweap Dr. requires crossing over
      > > > PRIVATE
      > > > > > > > PROPERTY. The roads described are posted as private
      > roads.
      > > > They
      > > > > > are
      > > > > > > > not posted No Treaspassing as a courtesy to locals and
      > guests.
      > > > > > > > However, once one leaves the road at any point in Kinesava
      > Ranch
      > > > > > > > subdivision one must cross private property to access Zion
      > > > National
      > > > > > > > Park. Remove the trail description from your website.
      > After
      > > > 30
      > > > > > days
      > > > > > > > if no action is taken on your part, a meeting of the
      > Kinesava
      > > > Ranch
      > > > > > > > Homeowner's association will be held to consider further
      > > > action.
      > > > > > > > Sincerely Paul Mailloux President - Kinesava Ranch
      > Homeowner's
      > > > > > > > Association
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • tanya_o0o
      Thanks Henk! Just give Bo a call. He has books that both of us have signed. Desert Rat: Contact & Hours (435) 628-7277 Monday - Friday : 9am - 7pm Saturday
      Message 32 of 32 , Nov 9, 2012
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        Thanks Henk!
        Just give Bo a call.  He has books that both of us have signed.

        Desert Rat: Contact & Hours

        (435) 628-7277

        Monday - Friday : 9am - 7pm
        Saturday : 9am - 6pm

        468 West St. George Blvd
        St. George, Utah





        --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, henk <henk.auwema@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Tanya,
        >
        > The cover looks very nice. I think it will attract people to the
        > content and looking at the topics it must be interesting.
        > Having done only some hikes in Zion NP and the the subway outside the
        > main park there is a lot to discover.
        > Would it be possible to get a signed copy from both you and Bo?
        > Hopefully next year I will be in the area again
        >
        > Thanks
        > Henk
        > >
        >
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