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Re: Must I get Wildcat TH walk-in permit in early A.M.?

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  • Joe Braun
    Yes, the cross-over spot should be no problem at all with flow. It s not in a particularly narrow or hazardous part of the canyon. (I m talking about the
    Message 1 of 12 , May 3, 2010
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      Yes, the cross-over spot should be no problem at all with flow. It's not in a particularly narrow or hazardous part of the canyon. (I'm talking about the cross-over by NGA with the little jughandle arch that marks the climb-out spot on the SGA side.)

      Have fun Michael! Be safe and bring back good stories and photos! -Joe

      --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mcooprec" <coopermb@...> wrote:
      >
      > Thanks, Shaun! Bo had told me a few months ago that it was a jump over, but that was before the really heavy snowpack became a certainty. Sounds like it'll probably be fine.
      >
      > Leaving for the airport in a few hours. Woohoo!!!! Zion here I come!!!
      >
      > Best,
      > Michael
      >
      > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun" <trackrunner83@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Depends on where you cross. If I remember where you plan on crossing & based on my only high flow experience, I'd say max it would be is ankle deep, maybe a little higher. Of course there are some pools that are swimmers but I doubt you'll choose to cross there.
      > >
      > > Perhaps I think I know what I'm writing about but really don't know. Let others confirm this before taking at face value.
      > >
      > > Have fun.
      > >
      > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mcooprec" <coopermb@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Thanks, guys. Great advice. I do remember your earlier post, Shaun, and I jotted down Annette and Ray's names in case I run into trouble at the visitor's center.
      > > >
      > > > Do you think we'll have to wade across the Left Fork or will it likely be just a hop over the water on rocks?
      > > >
      > > > Thanks,
      > > > Michael
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun" <trackrunner83@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Ram always has good advice including this.
      > > > >
      > > > > I wrote earlier about Subway permit hassle may depend on who you get, someone who knows or someone who thinks they know. I found the post here from Courtney that a subway permit is not needed as confirmed by Annette. So if you get hassle ask to talk to Annette about this.
      > > > >
      > > > > But follow Ram's advice about where you camping.
      > > > >
      > > > > Courtney's post on Annette saying SGA does not need a Subway permit if cross Left Fork.
      > > > >
      > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zion_National_Park_Hiking/message/46807
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "RAM" <adkramoo@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > The fact that which ranger you talk to could be a variable is a sign of a broken system. Excuse me...one that never worked. Crossing Left Fork is a non issue. You are just getting a back country camping permit. Just give them where you plan to camp each night. How you are getting there is largely none of their business. Sheesh, its not your responsibility to satisfy their curiosity. Sorry, long day at work. Have a blast an I anticipate your reports upon my return from Escalante in late May. Safe passage.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mcooprec" <coopermb@> wrote:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Thanks, Tom. 9 A.M. is best for us, anyway, if I'm going to get any sleep the night before.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I talked with a ranger a few hours ago by phone. She said I won't be competing for a Subway permit, since I'm not going down Left Fork but only intend to cross it.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > I realize another ranger might view this differently, however, so I appreciate knowing that either way I'll be okay if I stroll in to the visitor's center at around 9 AM.
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > And, yeah, I do have a shred of sanity left. Tiny, tiny shred...
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Best,
      > > > > > > Michael
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "TomJones" <ratagonia@> wrote:
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > You are crossing into the Primitive Left Fork Zone, so yes you are competing for a "Subway" permit. The good news is, this time of year, on a weekday, hardly anyone else is competing for that same permit, so you will not have a problem.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > It would be much politer for you to stroll in around 9 am, after the morning rush. I guess it will take about an hour for you to explain your proposed route and convince the rangers you are not COMPLETELY crazy, and get your permit. People trying to grab a permit and GO will appreciate your not being in front of them in line.
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > Tom
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mcooprec" <coopermb@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > I'll be crossing the Subway, using Bo's SGA climbing route, so I won't be going down Russell Gulch. I shouldn't be in competition for a Subway permit, as I plan to walk only several yards of the Left Fork as I cross it to exit south up to SGA country.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > We'll probably wake up around sunrise near Buffington Pockets (Nevada), jump in the vehicle and eat granola while driving to Zion. With the time zone difference for Utah, we may not get to the permit desk until 9AM or so, under that scenario.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > We could get up at first light of day and get to Zion by roughly 8 AM. But I'd rather get a good night's sleep if I don't have to push it.
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > Best,
      > > > > > > > > Michael
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Braun" <joe@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > I forget what exactly your route is... are you trying to get a Left Fork permit for a Subway crossover? If not, overnight permits are easy to come by, so I'd probably let the day canyoneers fight it out for the popular "trade-route" canyon permits and then swing by a little later. Well... that is if you want to sleep in and don't mind a late start.
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mcooprec" <coopermb@> wrote:
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > I fly in to Vegas tomorrow night and plan to begin my backpack trip at Wildcat TH the following day. Do you all recommend I get to the Zion backcountry desk in the very early A.M. (7 or 8 A.M.) in order to be certain of securing a walk-in permit for that day? Or is there so little demand for the Wildcat TH that I'm likely to be able to secure a walk-in permit later that morning?
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
      > > > > > > > > > > Michael
      > > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > > >
      > > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • mcooprec
      Thanks, Joe -- and everyone else! I deeply appreciate all the beta you guys have given me. Now we ll see if I can pull this off! Backpack weighs 64 pounds with
      Message 2 of 12 , May 3, 2010
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        Thanks, Joe -- and everyone else!

        I deeply appreciate all the beta you guys have given me. Now we'll see if I can pull this off! Backpack weighs 64 pounds with 2 liters of water packed (14 pounds food, 7.5 pounds of climbing gear each person, 6.6 pound backpack, 5 pounds water, 2.7 pounds tent, GPS, plb, water shoes, 1st Aid kit... plus the satellite dish, lounge chairs, fax machine, the complete Encyclopedia Brittanica, and a TV so I can watch 24 and Breaking Bad while I'm in Terry Wash... ;-) ). But seriously, I think we're going to be doing a lot of handlines and hauling packs on even class 3 terrain!

        Leaving for the airport after a quick lunch. Will give a preliminary TR upon my return, to follow thereafter with in-depth report and photos.

        Warm regards to all,
        Michael


        --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Braun" <joe@...> wrote:
        >
        > Yes, the cross-over spot should be no problem at all with flow. It's not in a particularly narrow or hazardous part of the canyon. (I'm talking about the cross-over by NGA with the little jughandle arch that marks the climb-out spot on the SGA side.)
        >
        > Have fun Michael! Be safe and bring back good stories and photos! -Joe
        >
        > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mcooprec" <coopermb@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Thanks, Shaun! Bo had told me a few months ago that it was a jump over, but that was before the really heavy snowpack became a certainty. Sounds like it'll probably be fine.
        > >
        > > Leaving for the airport in a few hours. Woohoo!!!! Zion here I come!!!
        > >
        > > Best,
        > > Michael
        > >
        > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun" <trackrunner83@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Depends on where you cross. If I remember where you plan on crossing & based on my only high flow experience, I'd say max it would be is ankle deep, maybe a little higher. Of course there are some pools that are swimmers but I doubt you'll choose to cross there.
        > > >
        > > > Perhaps I think I know what I'm writing about but really don't know. Let others confirm this before taking at face value.
        > > >
        > > > Have fun.
        > > >
        > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mcooprec" <coopermb@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > Thanks, guys. Great advice. I do remember your earlier post, Shaun, and I jotted down Annette and Ray's names in case I run into trouble at the visitor's center.
        > > > >
        > > > > Do you think we'll have to wade across the Left Fork or will it likely be just a hop over the water on rocks?
        > > > >
        > > > > Thanks,
        > > > > Michael
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun" <trackrunner83@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Ram always has good advice including this.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > I wrote earlier about Subway permit hassle may depend on who you get, someone who knows or someone who thinks they know. I found the post here from Courtney that a subway permit is not needed as confirmed by Annette. So if you get hassle ask to talk to Annette about this.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > But follow Ram's advice about where you camping.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Courtney's post on Annette saying SGA does not need a Subway permit if cross Left Fork.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zion_National_Park_Hiking/message/46807
        > > > > >
        > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "RAM" <adkramoo@> wrote:
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > The fact that which ranger you talk to could be a variable is a sign of a broken system. Excuse me...one that never worked. Crossing Left Fork is a non issue. You are just getting a back country camping permit. Just give them where you plan to camp each night. How you are getting there is largely none of their business. Sheesh, its not your responsibility to satisfy their curiosity. Sorry, long day at work. Have a blast an I anticipate your reports upon my return from Escalante in late May. Safe passage.
        > > > > > >
        > > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mcooprec" <coopermb@> wrote:
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Thanks, Tom. 9 A.M. is best for us, anyway, if I'm going to get any sleep the night before.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I talked with a ranger a few hours ago by phone. She said I won't be competing for a Subway permit, since I'm not going down Left Fork but only intend to cross it.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > I realize another ranger might view this differently, however, so I appreciate knowing that either way I'll be okay if I stroll in to the visitor's center at around 9 AM.
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > And, yeah, I do have a shred of sanity left. Tiny, tiny shred...
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > Best,
        > > > > > > > Michael
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "TomJones" <ratagonia@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > You are crossing into the Primitive Left Fork Zone, so yes you are competing for a "Subway" permit. The good news is, this time of year, on a weekday, hardly anyone else is competing for that same permit, so you will not have a problem.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > It would be much politer for you to stroll in around 9 am, after the morning rush. I guess it will take about an hour for you to explain your proposed route and convince the rangers you are not COMPLETELY crazy, and get your permit. People trying to grab a permit and GO will appreciate your not being in front of them in line.
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > Tom
        > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mcooprec" <coopermb@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > I'll be crossing the Subway, using Bo's SGA climbing route, so I won't be going down Russell Gulch. I shouldn't be in competition for a Subway permit, as I plan to walk only several yards of the Left Fork as I cross it to exit south up to SGA country.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > We'll probably wake up around sunrise near Buffington Pockets (Nevada), jump in the vehicle and eat granola while driving to Zion. With the time zone difference for Utah, we may not get to the permit desk until 9AM or so, under that scenario.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > We could get up at first light of day and get to Zion by roughly 8 AM. But I'd rather get a good night's sleep if I don't have to push it.
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > Best,
        > > > > > > > > > Michael
        > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Joe Braun" <joe@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > I forget what exactly your route is... are you trying to get a Left Fork permit for a Subway crossover? If not, overnight permits are easy to come by, so I'd probably let the day canyoneers fight it out for the popular "trade-route" canyon permits and then swing by a little later. Well... that is if you want to sleep in and don't mind a late start.
        > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mcooprec" <coopermb@> wrote:
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > I fly in to Vegas tomorrow night and plan to begin my backpack trip at Wildcat TH the following day. Do you all recommend I get to the Zion backcountry desk in the very early A.M. (7 or 8 A.M.) in order to be certain of securing a walk-in permit for that day? Or is there so little demand for the Wildcat TH that I'm likely to be able to secure a walk-in permit later that morning?
        > > > > > > > > > > >
        > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
        > > > > > > > > > > > Michael
        > > > > > > > > > > >
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