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Re: Bo,

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  • Clayton Palmer
    Yeah, I knew that lower sand wash was private and have hiked this many times. I was curious about the upper end as I am planning a hike there this spring and
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 1, 2009
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      Yeah, I knew that lower sand wash was private and have hiked this many
      times. I was curious about the upper end as I am planning a hike there
      this spring and was curious whos land it was.
      thanks!--- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun"
      <trackrunner83@...> wrote:
      >
      > I believe that is BLM. Lower Sand Wash is private.I preaty sure Red
      > Cave is BLM but to get there you have to cross private. I'd assume
      > above Red Cave is BLM to but could be wrong.
      >
      > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Palmer"
      > <garyclaytonpalmer@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Do you know who owns the land in upper Sand Wash upstream from Red
      > > Cave where the wash starts near the White Cliffs and Glendale
      Bench.
      > > ? Is it National Forest or private land.
      > >
      >
    • bomabro84738
      Gary, I (Tanya) got a map from the records office in Kanab a couple years ago as we were looking to update our directions for both Lower and Upper Red Cave
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 1, 2009
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        Gary, I (Tanya) got a map from the records office in Kanab a couple
        years ago as we were looking to update our directions for both Lower
        and Upper Red Cave Hikes (Sand Washes on USGS 7.5 Maps). It seems that
        there was no way to access either without crossing private holdings.
        The Sorensons and Taits are the majority landholders along with Tanyas
        family whether approaching from the south, west or north. The easiest
        access to both washes is probably done by getting permission from Del
        Tait in Mt. Carmel, and taking Tait Lane across the East Fork,
        bypassing the leased aggregate/equipment lot, steering north up the
        hillside then east and finally southeast dropping into Upper Sand Wash.
        A fair chunk uf Lower Sand Wash is held by Sorenson and occasionally
        has a ditch dug across to prevent travel east to the mouth of
        Lower "Cave" but the county and state has asked that this not be done.
        The BLM has been working on trying to establish easement across private
        holdings to access BLM lands that encompass both Upper and Lower Sand
        Washes all the way to the white cliffs of the Grand Staircase/
        Escalante NM. I think if you talk to Del Tait it should not present any
        problem for you to access the Washes from Mt. Carmel.

        Here is a link to Tanyas and my website along with a map and
        instructions for permission to access. I'm sure that you are already
        aware of the entire area Gary (much more than I) but I thought I'd give
        an explanation for other interested parties as well!

        http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-red-cave.htm

        Happy New Year to you Gary! Sounds like a fun festivity going on up in
        Jackson!

        Bo

        --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Palmer"
        <garyclaytonpalmer@...> wrote:
        >
        > Do you know who owns the land in upper Sand Wash upstream from Red
        > Cave where the wash starts near the White Cliffs and Glendale Bench.
        > ? Is it National Forest or private land.
        >
      • Clayton Palmer
        I usually went across behind the Sousa a land up the ridge and followed the 4 wheeler tracks to just above upper sand wash s entrance to the slot. The lower
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 1, 2009
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          I usually went across behind the Sousa'a land up the ridge and
          followed the 4 wheeler tracks to just above upper sand wash's
          entrance to the slot. The lower one I went to by crossing near Ed's
          place and taking another 4 wheeler track to near the mouth of lower
          sand wash slot.
          I was asking because I want to come out next spring for a couple
          weeks and try again to get to the higher reaches below Elkheart Peak
          and the main drainage to the east. I have attempted it once but in
          order to follow the east drainage one has to drop into the upper
          wash above the slots and would require a rope to climb back out.
          Thanks for the access to the maps you have tho.--- In
          Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "bomabro84738"
          <bbeck@...> wrote:
          >
          > Gary, I (Tanya) got a map from the records office in Kanab a
          couple
          > years ago as we were looking to update our directions for both
          Lower
          > and Upper Red Cave Hikes (Sand Washes on USGS 7.5 Maps). It seems
          that
          > there was no way to access either without crossing private
          holdings.
          > The Sorensons and Taits are the majority landholders along with
          Tanyas
          > family whether approaching from the south, west or north. The
          easiest
          > access to both washes is probably done by getting permission from
          Del
          > Tait in Mt. Carmel, and taking Tait Lane across the East Fork,
          > bypassing the leased aggregate/equipment lot, steering north up
          the
          > hillside then east and finally southeast dropping into Upper Sand
          Wash.
          > A fair chunk uf Lower Sand Wash is held by Sorenson and
          occasionally
          > has a ditch dug across to prevent travel east to the mouth of
          > Lower "Cave" but the county and state has asked that this not be
          done.
          > The BLM has been working on trying to establish easement across
          private
          > holdings to access BLM lands that encompass both Upper and Lower
          Sand
          > Washes all the way to the white cliffs of the Grand Staircase/
          > Escalante NM. I think if you talk to Del Tait it should not
          present any
          > problem for you to access the Washes from Mt. Carmel.
          >
          > Here is a link to Tanyas and my website along with a map and
          > instructions for permission to access. I'm sure that you are
          already
          > aware of the entire area Gary (much more than I) but I thought I'd
          give
          > an explanation for other interested parties as well!
          >
          > http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-red-cave.htm
          >
          > Happy New Year to you Gary! Sounds like a fun festivity going on
          up in
          > Jackson!
          >
          > Bo
          >
          > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Palmer"
          > <garyclaytonpalmer@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Do you know who owns the land in upper Sand Wash upstream from
          Red
          > > Cave where the wash starts near the White Cliffs and Glendale
          Bench.
          > > ? Is it National Forest or private land.
          > >
          >
        • bomabro84738
          Holler when you may be coming out? If at all possible I d love the opportunity to join you!? Tanya and I followed Upper Red Wash up for maybe 1-2 miles toward
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 2, 2009
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            Holler when you may be coming out? If at all possible I'd love the
            opportunity to join you!? Tanya and I followed Upper Red Wash up for
            maybe 1-2 miles toward the Elkhart Cliffs maybe 3 years ago, but
            never went up to the rim. If I can I'd love to give it another shot
            with you?

            Bo

            --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Palmer"
            <garyclaytonpalmer@...> wrote:
            >
            > I usually went across behind the Sousa'a land up the ridge and
            > followed the 4 wheeler tracks to just above upper sand wash's
            > entrance to the slot. The lower one I went to by crossing near Ed's
            > place and taking another 4 wheeler track to near the mouth of lower
            > sand wash slot.
            > I was asking because I want to come out next spring for a couple
            > weeks and try again to get to the higher reaches below Elkheart
            Peak
            > and the main drainage to the east. I have attempted it once but in
            > order to follow the east drainage one has to drop into the upper
            > wash above the slots and would require a rope to climb back out.
            > Thanks for the access to the maps you have tho.--- In
            > Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "bomabro84738"
            > <bbeck@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Gary, I (Tanya) got a map from the records office in Kanab a
            > couple
            > > years ago as we were looking to update our directions for both
            > Lower
            > > and Upper Red Cave Hikes (Sand Washes on USGS 7.5 Maps). It seems
            > that
            > > there was no way to access either without crossing private
            > holdings.
            > > The Sorensons and Taits are the majority landholders along with
            > Tanyas
            > > family whether approaching from the south, west or north. The
            > easiest
            > > access to both washes is probably done by getting permission from
            > Del
            > > Tait in Mt. Carmel, and taking Tait Lane across the East Fork,
            > > bypassing the leased aggregate/equipment lot, steering north up
            > the
            > > hillside then east and finally southeast dropping into Upper Sand
            > Wash.
            > > A fair chunk uf Lower Sand Wash is held by Sorenson and
            > occasionally
            > > has a ditch dug across to prevent travel east to the mouth of
            > > Lower "Cave" but the county and state has asked that this not be
            > done.
            > > The BLM has been working on trying to establish easement across
            > private
            > > holdings to access BLM lands that encompass both Upper and Lower
            > Sand
            > > Washes all the way to the white cliffs of the Grand Staircase/
            > > Escalante NM. I think if you talk to Del Tait it should not
            > present any
            > > problem for you to access the Washes from Mt. Carmel.
            > >
            > > Here is a link to Tanyas and my website along with a map and
            > > instructions for permission to access. I'm sure that you are
            > already
            > > aware of the entire area Gary (much more than I) but I thought
            I'd
            > give
            > > an explanation for other interested parties as well!
            > >
            > > http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-red-cave.htm
            > >
            > > Happy New Year to you Gary! Sounds like a fun festivity going on
            > up in
            > > Jackson!
            > >
            > > Bo
            > >
            > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton
            Palmer"
            > > <garyclaytonpalmer@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Do you know who owns the land in upper Sand Wash upstream from
            > Red
            > > > Cave where the wash starts near the White Cliffs and Glendale
            > Bench.
            > > > ? Is it National Forest or private land.
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Clayton Palmer
            Thanks I would enjoy the company, especially yours being a canyoneer experienced in rope climbing. One of the reasons I would like to get back there in upper
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 2, 2009
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              Thanks I would enjoy the company, especially yours being a canyoneer
              experienced in rope climbing.
              One of the reasons I would like to get back there in upper Sand
              Wash, is that the Esplin's had told me there was a route where early
              ranchers used to get the cattle onto the Glendale Bench. The only
              place I have found my way up is near Orderville where the radio
              towers are with a steep road then following a game trail up to a
              small side canyon and onto the bench.
              I am thinking of moving back to the area next fall and maybe getting
              trailer to rent a spot in the Tortise and Hare RV Park north of
              Orderville. I want to explore more of Glendale Bench and the
              southern end below the White Cliffs and along the east side above
              Kanab Creek.
              Maybe also getting a job back at the Thunderbird parttime to make
              ends meet.
              I am currently working two days a week this winter here at the
              hospital in Jackson Hole. I like having a five day weekend. In mid-
              Feburary I will go back to three days a week thru the summer as I
              did last summer.
              I will have 2 weeks paid vacation coming in April/May. I will
              definitely give you a hollar when I am coming down. Be sure to be
              outside so you can hear me! :)--- In
              Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "bomabro84738"
              <bbeck@...> wrote:
              >
              > Holler when you may be coming out? If at all possible I'd love the
              > opportunity to join you!? Tanya and I followed Upper Red Wash up
              for
              > maybe 1-2 miles toward the Elkhart Cliffs maybe 3 years ago, but
              > never went up to the rim. If I can I'd love to give it another
              shot
              > with you?
              >
              > Bo
              >
              > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton Palmer"
              > <garyclaytonpalmer@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I usually went across behind the Sousa'a land up the ridge and
              > > followed the 4 wheeler tracks to just above upper sand wash's
              > > entrance to the slot. The lower one I went to by crossing near
              Ed's
              > > place and taking another 4 wheeler track to near the mouth of
              lower
              > > sand wash slot.
              > > I was asking because I want to come out next spring for a couple
              > > weeks and try again to get to the higher reaches below Elkheart
              > Peak
              > > and the main drainage to the east. I have attempted it once but
              in
              > > order to follow the east drainage one has to drop into the upper
              > > wash above the slots and would require a rope to climb back out.
              > > Thanks for the access to the maps you have tho.--- In
              > > Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "bomabro84738"
              > > <bbeck@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Gary, I (Tanya) got a map from the records office in Kanab a
              > > couple
              > > > years ago as we were looking to update our directions for both
              > > Lower
              > > > and Upper Red Cave Hikes (Sand Washes on USGS 7.5 Maps). It
              seems
              > > that
              > > > there was no way to access either without crossing private
              > > holdings.
              > > > The Sorensons and Taits are the majority landholders along
              with
              > > Tanyas
              > > > family whether approaching from the south, west or north. The
              > > easiest
              > > > access to both washes is probably done by getting permission
              from
              > > Del
              > > > Tait in Mt. Carmel, and taking Tait Lane across the East Fork,
              > > > bypassing the leased aggregate/equipment lot, steering north
              up
              > > the
              > > > hillside then east and finally southeast dropping into Upper
              Sand
              > > Wash.
              > > > A fair chunk uf Lower Sand Wash is held by Sorenson and
              > > occasionally
              > > > has a ditch dug across to prevent travel east to the mouth of
              > > > Lower "Cave" but the county and state has asked that this not
              be
              > > done.
              > > > The BLM has been working on trying to establish easement
              across
              > > private
              > > > holdings to access BLM lands that encompass both Upper and
              Lower
              > > Sand
              > > > Washes all the way to the white cliffs of the Grand Staircase/
              > > > Escalante NM. I think if you talk to Del Tait it should not
              > > present any
              > > > problem for you to access the Washes from Mt. Carmel.
              > > >
              > > > Here is a link to Tanyas and my website along with a map and
              > > > instructions for permission to access. I'm sure that you are
              > > already
              > > > aware of the entire area Gary (much more than I) but I thought
              > I'd
              > > give
              > > > an explanation for other interested parties as well!
              > > >
              > > > http://www.zionnational-park.com/zion-red-cave.htm
              > > >
              > > > Happy New Year to you Gary! Sounds like a fun festivity going
              on
              > > up in
              > > > Jackson!
              > > >
              > > > Bo
              > > >
              > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Clayton
              > Palmer"
              > > > <garyclaytonpalmer@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Do you know who owns the land in upper Sand Wash upstream
              from
              > > Red
              > > > > Cave where the wash starts near the White Cliffs and
              Glendale
              > > Bench.
              > > > > ? Is it National Forest or private land.
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
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