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Reasonable to do Angel's Landing and the bottom-up Narrows in one day?

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  • tdullmaier
    This would be in late May or early June. We are good non-technical hikers. We would try to take the first shuttle from Springdale to Angel s Landing in the
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 10, 2008
      This would be in late May or early June. We are good non-technical
      hikers. We would try to take the first shuttle from Springdale to
      Angel's Landing in the morning and then hike the Narrows in the late
      morning and afternoon. Is that a reasonable plan?

      Another option: try to get a permit to do the top down Narrows hike in
      two days and camp. But all the warnings about flash floods in the
      Narrows makes me wonder about sleeping there; is there a chance of
      getting washed away in your sleep? Also, I've seen references to
      sometimes having to swim. I can swim but will dry bags actually keep
      your sleeping bag dry if you are swimming? And how much do people
      carry in terms of camping equipment and food? Water?

      Thanks in advance for any information and advice. I have never been to
      Zion so don't know what these hikes are like.
    • Shaun
      Angels landing and bottom narrows in a day, absolutely. If your a fast hiker I think you can be hiking the lower narrows in the late morning. If not it will be
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 10, 2008
        Angels landing and bottom narrows in a day, absolutely. If your a
        fast hiker I think you can be hiking the lower narrows in the late
        morning. If not it will be past afternoon but before evening. YMMV

        I've never done the camp option though so someone else would give you
        better advice.


        --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
        <tdullmaier@...> wrote:
        >
        > This would be in late May or early June. We are good non-technical
        > hikers. We would try to take the first shuttle from Springdale to
        > Angel's Landing in the morning and then hike the Narrows in the
        late
        > morning and afternoon. Is that a reasonable plan?
        >
        > Another option: try to get a permit to do the top down Narrows hike
        in
        > two days and camp. But all the warnings about flash floods in the
        > Narrows makes me wonder about sleeping there; is there a chance of
        > getting washed away in your sleep? Also, I've seen references to
        > sometimes having to swim. I can swim but will dry bags actually
        keep
        > your sleeping bag dry if you are swimming? And how much do people
        > carry in terms of camping equipment and food? Water?
        >
        > Thanks in advance for any information and advice. I have never
        been to
        > Zion so don't know what these hikes are like.
        >
      • iamfeliciaus
        The Narrows as an overnight trip is wonderful! It is my favorite easy backpacking trip. We travel light as it is just one night. The weather is mild and we
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 10, 2008
          The Narrows as an overnight trip is wonderful! It is my
          favorite 'easy' backpacking trip.

          We travel light as it is just one night. The weather is mild and we
          do not carry a tent. I like to carry a jetboil for hot water - I
          have to have top raumen. *lol* Coffee in the morning gets you
          moving along.

          The campsites are located in safe areas. You always have to watch
          the weather and make your own decisions. The swimming issue will
          depend on the water levels. Most swims are can be described as deep
          wading and floating in the flow of the river. Most are rather short -
          just enough to get you really wet. Dry bags work great IF you use
          them properly. :-)

          Have fun!








          --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun"
          <trackrunner83@...> wrote:
          >
          > Angels landing and bottom narrows in a day, absolutely. If your a
          > fast hiker I think you can be hiking the lower narrows in the late
          > morning. If not it will be past afternoon but before evening. YMMV
          >
          > I've never done the camp option though so someone else would give
          you
          > better advice.
          >
          >
          > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
          > <tdullmaier@> wrote:
          > >
          > > This would be in late May or early June. We are good non-
          technical
          > > hikers. We would try to take the first shuttle from Springdale
          to
          > > Angel's Landing in the morning and then hike the Narrows in the
          > late
          > > morning and afternoon. Is that a reasonable plan?
          > >
          > > Another option: try to get a permit to do the top down Narrows
          hike
          > in
          > > two days and camp. But all the warnings about flash floods in
          the
          > > Narrows makes me wonder about sleeping there; is there a chance
          of
          > > getting washed away in your sleep? Also, I've seen references to
          > > sometimes having to swim. I can swim but will dry bags actually
          > keep
          > > your sleeping bag dry if you are swimming? And how much do
          people
          > > carry in terms of camping equipment and food? Water?
          > >
          > > Thanks in advance for any information and advice. I have never
          > been to
          > > Zion so don't know what these hikes are like.
          > >
          >
        • Dean Kurtz
          Keep in mind, however, that May-June is typically towards the end of peak runoff. The possibility does exist, depending on this year s snowpack, that the
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 10, 2008
            Keep in mind, however, that May-June is typically towards the end of peak runoff.  The possibility does exist, depending on this year's snowpack, that the Narrows will be impassable, and/or restricted by NPS, at that time of year.
             
            Dean
             
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 2:25 PM
            Subject: [Zion_National_Park_Hiking] Re: Reasonable to do Angel's Landing and the bottom-up Narrows in one day?

            The Narrows as an overnight trip is wonderful! It is my
            favorite 'easy' backpacking trip.

            We travel light as it is just one night. The weather is mild and we
            do not carry a tent. I like to carry a jetboil for hot water - I
            have to have top raumen. *lol* Coffee in the morning gets you
            moving along.

            The campsites are located in safe areas. You always have to watch
            the weather and make your own decisions. The swimming issue will
            depend on the water levels. Most swims are can be described as deep
            wading and floating in the flow of the river. Most are rather short -
            just enough to get you really wet. Dry bags work great IF you use
            them properly. :-)

            Have fun!

            --- In Zion_National_ Park_Hiking@ yahoogroups. com, "Shaun"
            <trackrunner83@ ...> wrote:
            >
            > Angels landing and bottom narrows in a day, absolutely. If your a
            > fast hiker I think you can be hiking the lower narrows in the late
            > morning. If not it will be past afternoon but before evening. YMMV
            >
            > I've never done the camp option though so someone else would give
            you
            > better advice.
            >
            >
            > --- In Zion_National_ Park_Hiking@ yahoogroups. com, "tdullmaier"
            > <tdullmaier@ > wrote:
            > >
            > > This would be in late May or early June. We are good non-
            technical
            > > hikers. We would try to take the first shuttle from Springdale
            to
            > > Angel's Landing in the morning and then hike the Narrows in the
            > late
            > > morning and afternoon. Is that a reasonable plan?
            > >
            > > Another option: try to get a permit to do the top down Narrows
            hike
            > in
            > > two days and camp. But all the warnings about flash floods in
            the
            > > Narrows makes me wonder about sleeping there; is there a chance
            of
            > > getting washed away in your sleep? Also, I've seen references to
            > > sometimes having to swim. I can swim but will dry bags actually
            > keep
            > > your sleeping bag dry if you are swimming? And how much do
            people
            > > carry in terms of camping equipment and food? Water?
            > >
            > > Thanks in advance for any information and advice. I have never
            > been to
            > > Zion so don't know what these hikes are like.
            > >
            >

          • mojave_ben
            Definitely can do, though the Narrows is worth more time than that. We did it (with a 7 yr old) two summers ago, late July, so similar light. We weren t even
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 10, 2008
              Definitely can do, though the Narrows is worth more time than that.
              We did it (with a 7 yr old) two summers ago, late July, so similar
              light. We weren't even on the first shuttle; got to the VC around 7
              driving in from St. George.

              Great to be out early and beat the crowds on Angel's Landing.

              One issue is that you need rather different gear for the two hikes,
              and don't want to go back out on the shuttle - not enough time. You
              can stash stuff in the bushes near the bottom of Angel's landing.
              But we wore boots and then switched into water gear at the narrows,
              tying the boots on our packs. Waterproof bags are useful to protect
              the rest of your stuff. You really benefit from at least one hiking
              stick and good water shoes. Me, I have fairly thin ones with rigid
              soles and straps, and I wear them over neoprene socks which I love.

              Critical is flow in the river. That time of year is before real
              thunderstorm time but you want to get there after snow melt. Two
              years ago we went up at around 30 cfs and this summer we went up at
              50 and I can tell you, 50 really is a lot more work! Plus the water
              was silty so harder to see the bottom.

              Issue is that narrows get better past Orderville so you really hope
              to have time to get up that far. The shuttles are great though so
              you could take plenty of afternoon time and still get out to eat your
              dinner.

              Look at me, I've been up the narrows twice and am acting like an
              expert :) Seriously, look at the archives of this group, these two
              hikes are heavily discussed.
            • tdullmaier
              Thanks. I m not sure if we ll do the overnight or just the day hike but it is good to know the camping spots are in safe places. It makes sense, of course, I
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 13, 2008
                Thanks. I'm not sure if we'll do the overnight or just the day hike
                but it is good to know the camping spots are in safe places. It
                makes sense, of course, I just wasn't sure.

                Terry
                --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "iamfeliciaus"
                <iamfeliciaus@...> wrote:
                >
                > The Narrows as an overnight trip is wonderful! It is my
                > favorite 'easy' backpacking trip.
                >
                > We travel light as it is just one night. The weather is mild and
                we
                > do not carry a tent. I like to carry a jetboil for hot water - I
                > have to have top raumen. *lol* Coffee in the morning gets you
                > moving along.
                >
                > The campsites are located in safe areas. You always have to watch
                > the weather and make your own decisions. The swimming issue will
                > depend on the water levels. Most swims are can be described as
                deep
                > wading and floating in the flow of the river. Most are rather
                short -
                > just enough to get you really wet. Dry bags work great IF you use
                > them properly. :-)
                >
                > Have fun!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun"
                > <trackrunner83@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Angels landing and bottom narrows in a day, absolutely. If your a
                > > fast hiker I think you can be hiking the lower narrows in the
                late
                > > morning. If not it will be past afternoon but before evening. YMMV
                > >
                > > I've never done the camp option though so someone else would give
                > you
                > > better advice.
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                > > <tdullmaier@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > This would be in late May or early June. We are good non-
                > technical
                > > > hikers. We would try to take the first shuttle from Springdale
                > to
                > > > Angel's Landing in the morning and then hike the Narrows in the
                > > late
                > > > morning and afternoon. Is that a reasonable plan?
                > > >
                > > > Another option: try to get a permit to do the top down Narrows
                > hike
                > > in
                > > > two days and camp. But all the warnings about flash floods in
                > the
                > > > Narrows makes me wonder about sleeping there; is there a chance
                > of
                > > > getting washed away in your sleep? Also, I've seen references
                to
                > > > sometimes having to swim. I can swim but will dry bags
                actually
                > > keep
                > > > your sleeping bag dry if you are swimming? And how much do
                > people
                > > > carry in terms of camping equipment and food? Water?
                > > >
                > > > Thanks in advance for any information and advice. I have never
                > > been to
                > > > Zion so don't know what these hikes are like.
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • tdullmaier
                We will definitely check on the weather and have am alternate hike planned in case we can t go to the narrows. I am also afraid of flash floods so will be
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 13, 2008
                  We will definitely check on the weather and have am alternate hike
                  planned in case we can't go to the narrows. I am also afraid of
                  flash floods so will be very careful. Thanks.

                  --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Kurtz"
                  <dkurtz@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Keep in mind, however, that May-June is typically towards the end
                  of peak runoff. The possibility does exist, depending on this year's
                  snowpack, that the Narrows will be impassable, and/or restricted by
                  NPS, at that time of year.
                  >
                  > Dean
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: iamfeliciaus
                  > To: Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 2:25 PM
                  > Subject: [Zion_National_Park_Hiking] Re: Reasonable to do Angel's
                  Landing and the bottom-up Narrows in one day?
                  >
                  >
                  > The Narrows as an overnight trip is wonderful! It is my
                  > favorite 'easy' backpacking trip.
                  >
                  > We travel light as it is just one night. The weather is mild and
                  we
                  > do not carry a tent. I like to carry a jetboil for hot water - I
                  > have to have top raumen. *lol* Coffee in the morning gets you
                  > moving along.
                  >
                  > The campsites are located in safe areas. You always have to watch
                  > the weather and make your own decisions. The swimming issue will
                  > depend on the water levels. Most swims are can be described as
                  deep
                  > wading and floating in the flow of the river. Most are rather
                  short -
                  > just enough to get you really wet. Dry bags work great IF you use
                  > them properly. :-)
                  >
                  > Have fun!
                  >
                  > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun"
                  > <trackrunner83@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Angels landing and bottom narrows in a day, absolutely. If your
                  a
                  > > fast hiker I think you can be hiking the lower narrows in the
                  late
                  > > morning. If not it will be past afternoon but before evening.
                  YMMV
                  > >
                  > > I've never done the camp option though so someone else would
                  give
                  > you
                  > > better advice.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                  > > <tdullmaier@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > This would be in late May or early June. We are good non-
                  > technical
                  > > > hikers. We would try to take the first shuttle from
                  Springdale
                  > to
                  > > > Angel's Landing in the morning and then hike the Narrows in
                  the
                  > > late
                  > > > morning and afternoon. Is that a reasonable plan?
                  > > >
                  > > > Another option: try to get a permit to do the top down
                  Narrows
                  > hike
                  > > in
                  > > > two days and camp. But all the warnings about flash floods in
                  > the
                  > > > Narrows makes me wonder about sleeping there; is there a
                  chance
                  > of
                  > > > getting washed away in your sleep? Also, I've seen references
                  to
                  > > > sometimes having to swim. I can swim but will dry bags
                  actually
                  > > keep
                  > > > your sleeping bag dry if you are swimming? And how much do
                  > people
                  > > > carry in terms of camping equipment and food? Water?
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks in advance for any information and advice. I have
                  never
                  > > been to
                  > > > Zion so don't know what these hikes are like.
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • tdullmaier
                  We will definitely check on the weather and have am alternate hike planned in case we can t go to the narrows. I am also afraid of flash floods so will be
                  Message 8 of 15 , Oct 13, 2008
                    We will definitely check on the weather and have am alternate hike
                    planned in case we can't go to the narrows. I am also afraid of
                    flash floods so will be very careful. Thanks.

                    --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Kurtz"
                    <dkurtz@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Keep in mind, however, that May-June is typically towards the end
                    of peak runoff. The possibility does exist, depending on this year's
                    snowpack, that the Narrows will be impassable, and/or restricted by
                    NPS, at that time of year.
                    >
                    > Dean
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: iamfeliciaus
                    > To: Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 2:25 PM
                    > Subject: [Zion_National_Park_Hiking] Re: Reasonable to do Angel's
                    Landing and the bottom-up Narrows in one day?
                    >
                    >
                    > The Narrows as an overnight trip is wonderful! It is my
                    > favorite 'easy' backpacking trip.
                    >
                    > We travel light as it is just one night. The weather is mild and
                    we
                    > do not carry a tent. I like to carry a jetboil for hot water - I
                    > have to have top raumen. *lol* Coffee in the morning gets you
                    > moving along.
                    >
                    > The campsites are located in safe areas. You always have to watch
                    > the weather and make your own decisions. The swimming issue will
                    > depend on the water levels. Most swims are can be described as
                    deep
                    > wading and floating in the flow of the river. Most are rather
                    short -
                    > just enough to get you really wet. Dry bags work great IF you use
                    > them properly. :-)
                    >
                    > Have fun!
                    >
                    > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun"
                    > <trackrunner83@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Angels landing and bottom narrows in a day, absolutely. If your
                    a
                    > > fast hiker I think you can be hiking the lower narrows in the
                    late
                    > > morning. If not it will be past afternoon but before evening.
                    YMMV
                    > >
                    > > I've never done the camp option though so someone else would
                    give
                    > you
                    > > better advice.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                    > > <tdullmaier@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > This would be in late May or early June. We are good non-
                    > technical
                    > > > hikers. We would try to take the first shuttle from
                    Springdale
                    > to
                    > > > Angel's Landing in the morning and then hike the Narrows in
                    the
                    > > late
                    > > > morning and afternoon. Is that a reasonable plan?
                    > > >
                    > > > Another option: try to get a permit to do the top down
                    Narrows
                    > hike
                    > > in
                    > > > two days and camp. But all the warnings about flash floods in
                    > the
                    > > > Narrows makes me wonder about sleeping there; is there a
                    chance
                    > of
                    > > > getting washed away in your sleep? Also, I've seen references
                    to
                    > > > sometimes having to swim. I can swim but will dry bags
                    actually
                    > > keep
                    > > > your sleeping bag dry if you are swimming? And how much do
                    > people
                    > > > carry in terms of camping equipment and food? Water?
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks in advance for any information and advice. I have
                    never
                    > > been to
                    > > > Zion so don't know what these hikes are like.
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • tdullmaier
                    The different gear, particularly footwear, is something that hadn t occurred to me and is an excellent point. Would it help to try and stay at the lodge in
                    Message 9 of 15 , Oct 13, 2008
                      The different gear, particularly footwear, is something that hadn't
                      occurred to me and is an excellent point. Would it help to try and
                      stay at the lodge in the park? This trip isn't until May 2010 so I
                      can still possibly get reservations. Would staying there make it
                      easier to stop at your room and change gear? I don't know where the
                      lodge is located in relationship to the trails and the shuttle.

                      We will try not to have to do them the same day but we may not have a
                      choice. We'll try to get a permit for the Subway and a lot will just
                      depend on whether we get a permit, weather, etc. I just wanted to
                      know if it was possible in case that was our only option.

                      Thanks for the info. Please let me know if you think staying at the
                      lodge in the park would solve the gear issue.

                      Terry

                      --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mojave_ben"
                      <mojave_ben@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Definitely can do, though the Narrows is worth more time than
                      that.
                      > We did it (with a 7 yr old) two summers ago, late July, so similar
                      > light. We weren't even on the first shuttle; got to the VC around
                      7
                      > driving in from St. George.
                      >
                      > Great to be out early and beat the crowds on Angel's Landing.
                      >
                      > One issue is that you need rather different gear for the two hikes,
                      > and don't want to go back out on the shuttle - not enough time.
                      You
                      > can stash stuff in the bushes near the bottom of Angel's landing.
                      > But we wore boots and then switched into water gear at the narrows,
                      > tying the boots on our packs. Waterproof bags are useful to
                      protect
                      > the rest of your stuff. You really benefit from at least one
                      hiking
                      > stick and good water shoes. Me, I have fairly thin ones with rigid
                      > soles and straps, and I wear them over neoprene socks which I love.
                      >
                      > Critical is flow in the river. That time of year is before real
                      > thunderstorm time but you want to get there after snow melt. Two
                      > years ago we went up at around 30 cfs and this summer we went up at
                      > 50 and I can tell you, 50 really is a lot more work! Plus the
                      water
                      > was silty so harder to see the bottom.
                      >
                      > Issue is that narrows get better past Orderville so you really hope
                      > to have time to get up that far. The shuttles are great though so
                      > you could take plenty of afternoon time and still get out to eat
                      your
                      > dinner.
                      >
                      > Look at me, I've been up the narrows twice and am acting like an
                      > expert :) Seriously, look at the archives of this group, these two
                      > hikes are heavily discussed.
                      >
                    • bomabro84738
                      the lodge is just south of the grotto picnic area (trailhead for angels landing) and would be a handy place to stay! both angels landing and the narrows can be
                      Message 10 of 15 , Oct 13, 2008
                        the lodge is just south of the grotto picnic area (trailhead for
                        angels landing) and would be a handy place to stay! both angels
                        landing and the narrows can be done in a day, but 2 days would be
                        nicer (not rushing).

                        --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                        <tdullmaier@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The different gear, particularly footwear, is something that
                        hadn't
                        > occurred to me and is an excellent point. Would it help to try
                        and
                        > stay at the lodge in the park? This trip isn't until May 2010 so
                        I
                        > can still possibly get reservations. Would staying there make it
                        > easier to stop at your room and change gear? I don't know where
                        the
                        > lodge is located in relationship to the trails and the shuttle.
                        >
                        > We will try not to have to do them the same day but we may not
                        have a
                        > choice. We'll try to get a permit for the Subway and a lot will
                        just
                        > depend on whether we get a permit, weather, etc. I just wanted to
                        > know if it was possible in case that was our only option.
                        >
                        > Thanks for the info. Please let me know if you think staying at
                        the
                        > lodge in the park would solve the gear issue.
                        >
                        > Terry
                        >
                        > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mojave_ben"
                        > <mojave_ben@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Definitely can do, though the Narrows is worth more time than
                        > that.
                        > > We did it (with a 7 yr old) two summers ago, late July, so
                        similar
                        > > light. We weren't even on the first shuttle; got to the VC
                        around
                        > 7
                        > > driving in from St. George.
                        > >
                        > > Great to be out early and beat the crowds on Angel's Landing.
                        > >
                        > > One issue is that you need rather different gear for the two
                        hikes,
                        > > and don't want to go back out on the shuttle - not enough time.
                        > You
                        > > can stash stuff in the bushes near the bottom of Angel's
                        landing.
                        > > But we wore boots and then switched into water gear at the
                        narrows,
                        > > tying the boots on our packs. Waterproof bags are useful to
                        > protect
                        > > the rest of your stuff. You really benefit from at least one
                        > hiking
                        > > stick and good water shoes. Me, I have fairly thin ones with
                        rigid
                        > > soles and straps, and I wear them over neoprene socks which I
                        love.
                        > >
                        > > Critical is flow in the river. That time of year is before real
                        > > thunderstorm time but you want to get there after snow melt.
                        Two
                        > > years ago we went up at around 30 cfs and this summer we went up
                        at
                        > > 50 and I can tell you, 50 really is a lot more work! Plus the
                        > water
                        > > was silty so harder to see the bottom.
                        > >
                        > > Issue is that narrows get better past Orderville so you really
                        hope
                        > > to have time to get up that far. The shuttles are great though
                        so
                        > > you could take plenty of afternoon time and still get out to eat
                        > your
                        > > dinner.
                        > >
                        > > Look at me, I've been up the narrows twice and am acting like an
                        > > expert :) Seriously, look at the archives of this group, these
                        two
                        > > hikes are heavily discussed.
                        > >
                        >
                      • Shaun
                        When I did the narrows it was just in old running shoes. I was OK but YMMV. I ve since upgrade to canyoneering shoes that shed water nicely. I think you ll be
                        Message 11 of 15 , Oct 13, 2008
                          When I did the narrows it was just in old running shoes. I was OK but
                          YMMV. I've since upgrade to canyoneering shoes that shed water nicely.
                          I think you'll be fine if you did Angle's landing and hiked the lower
                          Narrows from the Temple of Sinawa (sp?) in a single day.


                          --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                          <tdullmaier@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > The different gear, particularly footwear, is something that hadn't
                          > occurred to me and is an excellent point. Would it help to try and
                          > stay at the lodge in the park? This trip isn't until May 2010 so I
                          > can still possibly get reservations. Would staying there make it
                          > easier to stop at your room and change gear? I don't know where
                          the
                          > lodge is located in relationship to the trails and the shuttle.
                          >
                          > We will try not to have to do them the same day but we may not have
                          a
                          > choice. We'll try to get a permit for the Subway and a lot will
                          just
                          > depend on whether we get a permit, weather, etc. I just wanted to
                          > know if it was possible in case that was our only option.
                          >
                          > Thanks for the info. Please let me know if you think staying at
                          the
                          > lodge in the park would solve the gear issue.
                          >
                          > Terry
                          >
                          > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mojave_ben"
                          > <mojave_ben@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Definitely can do, though the Narrows is worth more time than
                          > that.
                          > > We did it (with a 7 yr old) two summers ago, late July, so
                          similar
                          > > light. We weren't even on the first shuttle; got to the VC
                          around
                          > 7
                          > > driving in from St. George.
                          > >
                          > > Great to be out early and beat the crowds on Angel's Landing.
                          > >
                          > > One issue is that you need rather different gear for the two
                          hikes,
                          > > and don't want to go back out on the shuttle - not enough time.
                          > You
                          > > can stash stuff in the bushes near the bottom of Angel's
                          landing.
                          > > But we wore boots and then switched into water gear at the
                          narrows,
                          > > tying the boots on our packs. Waterproof bags are useful to
                          > protect
                          > > the rest of your stuff. You really benefit from at least one
                          > hiking
                          > > stick and good water shoes. Me, I have fairly thin ones with
                          rigid
                          > > soles and straps, and I wear them over neoprene socks which I
                          love.
                          > >
                          > > Critical is flow in the river. That time of year is before real
                          > > thunderstorm time but you want to get there after snow melt. Two
                          > > years ago we went up at around 30 cfs and this summer we went up
                          at
                          > > 50 and I can tell you, 50 really is a lot more work! Plus the
                          > water
                          > > was silty so harder to see the bottom.
                          > >
                          > > Issue is that narrows get better past Orderville so you really
                          hope
                          > > to have time to get up that far. The shuttles are great though
                          so
                          > > you could take plenty of afternoon time and still get out to eat
                          > your
                          > > dinner.
                          > >
                          > > Look at me, I've been up the narrows twice and am acting like an
                          > > expert :) Seriously, look at the archives of this group, these
                          two
                          > > hikes are heavily discussed.
                          > >
                          >
                        • tdullmaier
                          That s good to know because then I think we ll stay in the lodge in the park for at least one night to be able to start hiking to Angel s Landing really early
                          Message 12 of 15 , Oct 20, 2008
                            That's good to know because then I think we'll stay in the lodge in
                            the park for at least one night to be able to start hiking to Angel's
                            Landing really early in the morning before the crowds and heat
                            arrives.

                            Thanks.

                            Terry

                            --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "bomabro84738"
                            <bbeck@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > the lodge is just south of the grotto picnic area (trailhead for
                            > angels landing) and would be a handy place to stay! both angels
                            > landing and the narrows can be done in a day, but 2 days would be
                            > nicer (not rushing).
                            >
                            > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                            > <tdullmaier@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > The different gear, particularly footwear, is something that
                            > hadn't
                            > > occurred to me and is an excellent point. Would it help to try
                            > and
                            > > stay at the lodge in the park? This trip isn't until May 2010 so
                            > I
                            > > can still possibly get reservations. Would staying there make it
                            > > easier to stop at your room and change gear? I don't know where
                            > the
                            > > lodge is located in relationship to the trails and the shuttle.
                            > >
                            > > We will try not to have to do them the same day but we may not
                            > have a
                            > > choice. We'll try to get a permit for the Subway and a lot will
                            > just
                            > > depend on whether we get a permit, weather, etc. I just wanted
                            to
                            > > know if it was possible in case that was our only option.
                            > >
                            > > Thanks for the info. Please let me know if you think staying at
                            > the
                            > > lodge in the park would solve the gear issue.
                            > >
                            > > Terry
                            > >
                            > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mojave_ben"
                            > > <mojave_ben@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Definitely can do, though the Narrows is worth more time than
                            > > that.
                            > > > We did it (with a 7 yr old) two summers ago, late July, so
                            > similar
                            > > > light. We weren't even on the first shuttle; got to the VC
                            > around
                            > > 7
                            > > > driving in from St. George.
                            > > >
                            > > > Great to be out early and beat the crowds on Angel's Landing.
                            > > >
                            > > > One issue is that you need rather different gear for the two
                            > hikes,
                            > > > and don't want to go back out on the shuttle - not enough
                            time.
                            > > You
                            > > > can stash stuff in the bushes near the bottom of Angel's
                            > landing.
                            > > > But we wore boots and then switched into water gear at the
                            > narrows,
                            > > > tying the boots on our packs. Waterproof bags are useful to
                            > > protect
                            > > > the rest of your stuff. You really benefit from at least one
                            > > hiking
                            > > > stick and good water shoes. Me, I have fairly thin ones with
                            > rigid
                            > > > soles and straps, and I wear them over neoprene socks which I
                            > love.
                            > > >
                            > > > Critical is flow in the river. That time of year is before
                            real
                            > > > thunderstorm time but you want to get there after snow melt.
                            > Two
                            > > > years ago we went up at around 30 cfs and this summer we went
                            up
                            > at
                            > > > 50 and I can tell you, 50 really is a lot more work! Plus the
                            > > water
                            > > > was silty so harder to see the bottom.
                            > > >
                            > > > Issue is that narrows get better past Orderville so you really
                            > hope
                            > > > to have time to get up that far. The shuttles are great though
                            > so
                            > > > you could take plenty of afternoon time and still get out to
                            eat
                            > > your
                            > > > dinner.
                            > > >
                            > > > Look at me, I've been up the narrows twice and am acting like
                            an
                            > > > expert :) Seriously, look at the archives of this group, these
                            > two
                            > > > hikes are heavily discussed.
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • tdullmaier
                            I bought some Columbia aquatooth water shoes. Do you think those would be good enough for the Narrows? Or should I rent some canyoneering shoes in
                            Message 13 of 15 , Oct 20, 2008
                              I bought some Columbia aquatooth water shoes. Do you think those
                              would be good enough for the Narrows? Or should I rent some
                              canyoneering shoes in Springdale?

                              Terry



                              --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun"
                              <trackrunner83@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > When I did the narrows it was just in old running shoes. I was OK
                              but
                              > YMMV. I've since upgrade to canyoneering shoes that shed water
                              nicely.
                              > I think you'll be fine if you did Angle's landing and hiked the
                              lower
                              > Narrows from the Temple of Sinawa (sp?) in a single day.
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                              > <tdullmaier@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > The different gear, particularly footwear, is something that
                              hadn't
                              > > occurred to me and is an excellent point. Would it help to try
                              and
                              > > stay at the lodge in the park? This trip isn't until May 2010 so
                              I
                              > > can still possibly get reservations. Would staying there make it
                              > > easier to stop at your room and change gear? I don't know where
                              > the
                              > > lodge is located in relationship to the trails and the shuttle.
                              > >
                              > > We will try not to have to do them the same day but we may not
                              have
                              > a
                              > > choice. We'll try to get a permit for the Subway and a lot will
                              > just
                              > > depend on whether we get a permit, weather, etc. I just wanted
                              to
                              > > know if it was possible in case that was our only option.
                              > >
                              > > Thanks for the info. Please let me know if you think staying at
                              > the
                              > > lodge in the park would solve the gear issue.
                              > >
                              > > Terry
                              > >
                              > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mojave_ben"
                              > > <mojave_ben@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Definitely can do, though the Narrows is worth more time than
                              > > that.
                              > > > We did it (with a 7 yr old) two summers ago, late July, so
                              > similar
                              > > > light. We weren't even on the first shuttle; got to the VC
                              > around
                              > > 7
                              > > > driving in from St. George.
                              > > >
                              > > > Great to be out early and beat the crowds on Angel's Landing.
                              > > >
                              > > > One issue is that you need rather different gear for the two
                              > hikes,
                              > > > and don't want to go back out on the shuttle - not enough
                              time.
                              > > You
                              > > > can stash stuff in the bushes near the bottom of Angel's
                              > landing.
                              > > > But we wore boots and then switched into water gear at the
                              > narrows,
                              > > > tying the boots on our packs. Waterproof bags are useful to
                              > > protect
                              > > > the rest of your stuff. You really benefit from at least one
                              > > hiking
                              > > > stick and good water shoes. Me, I have fairly thin ones with
                              > rigid
                              > > > soles and straps, and I wear them over neoprene socks which I
                              > love.
                              > > >
                              > > > Critical is flow in the river. That time of year is before
                              real
                              > > > thunderstorm time but you want to get there after snow melt.
                              Two
                              > > > years ago we went up at around 30 cfs and this summer we went
                              up
                              > at
                              > > > 50 and I can tell you, 50 really is a lot more work! Plus the
                              > > water
                              > > > was silty so harder to see the bottom.
                              > > >
                              > > > Issue is that narrows get better past Orderville so you really
                              > hope
                              > > > to have time to get up that far. The shuttles are great though
                              > so
                              > > > you could take plenty of afternoon time and still get out to
                              eat
                              > > your
                              > > > dinner.
                              > > >
                              > > > Look at me, I've been up the narrows twice and am acting like
                              an
                              > > > expert :) Seriously, look at the archives of this group, these
                              > two
                              > > > hikes are heavily discussed.
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • Tom Jones
                              Worn with a neoprene sock, it looks like it would do pretty well. Tom ... OK ... try ... so ... it ... where ... shuttle. ... will ... wanted ... at ... than
                              Message 14 of 15 , Oct 22, 2008
                                Worn with a neoprene sock, it looks like it would do pretty well.

                                Tom

                                --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                                <tdullmaier@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I bought some Columbia aquatooth water shoes. Do you think those
                                > would be good enough for the Narrows? Or should I rent some
                                > canyoneering shoes in Springdale?
                                >
                                > Terry
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun"
                                > <trackrunner83@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > When I did the narrows it was just in old running shoes. I was
                                OK
                                > but
                                > > YMMV. I've since upgrade to canyoneering shoes that shed water
                                > nicely.
                                > > I think you'll be fine if you did Angle's landing and hiked the
                                > lower
                                > > Narrows from the Temple of Sinawa (sp?) in a single day.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                                > > <tdullmaier@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > The different gear, particularly footwear, is something that
                                > hadn't
                                > > > occurred to me and is an excellent point. Would it help to
                                try
                                > and
                                > > > stay at the lodge in the park? This trip isn't until May 2010
                                so
                                > I
                                > > > can still possibly get reservations. Would staying there make
                                it
                                > > > easier to stop at your room and change gear? I don't know
                                where
                                > > the
                                > > > lodge is located in relationship to the trails and the
                                shuttle.
                                > > >
                                > > > We will try not to have to do them the same day but we may not
                                > have
                                > > a
                                > > > choice. We'll try to get a permit for the Subway and a lot
                                will
                                > > just
                                > > > depend on whether we get a permit, weather, etc. I just
                                wanted
                                > to
                                > > > know if it was possible in case that was our only option.
                                > > >
                                > > > Thanks for the info. Please let me know if you think staying
                                at
                                > > the
                                > > > lodge in the park would solve the gear issue.
                                > > >
                                > > > Terry
                                > > >
                                > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mojave_ben"
                                > > > <mojave_ben@> wrote:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Definitely can do, though the Narrows is worth more time
                                than
                                > > > that.
                                > > > > We did it (with a 7 yr old) two summers ago, late July, so
                                > > similar
                                > > > > light. We weren't even on the first shuttle; got to the VC
                                > > around
                                > > > 7
                                > > > > driving in from St. George.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Great to be out early and beat the crowds on Angel's Landing.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > One issue is that you need rather different gear for the two
                                > > hikes,
                                > > > > and don't want to go back out on the shuttle - not enough
                                > time.
                                > > > You
                                > > > > can stash stuff in the bushes near the bottom of Angel's
                                > > landing.
                                > > > > But we wore boots and then switched into water gear at the
                                > > narrows,
                                > > > > tying the boots on our packs. Waterproof bags are useful to
                                > > > protect
                                > > > > the rest of your stuff. You really benefit from at least
                                one
                                > > > hiking
                                > > > > stick and good water shoes. Me, I have fairly thin ones
                                with
                                > > rigid
                                > > > > soles and straps, and I wear them over neoprene socks which
                                I
                                > > love.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Critical is flow in the river. That time of year is before
                                > real
                                > > > > thunderstorm time but you want to get there after snow
                                melt.
                                > Two
                                > > > > years ago we went up at around 30 cfs and this summer we
                                went
                                > up
                                > > at
                                > > > > 50 and I can tell you, 50 really is a lot more work! Plus
                                the
                                > > > water
                                > > > > was silty so harder to see the bottom.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Issue is that narrows get better past Orderville so you
                                really
                                > > hope
                                > > > > to have time to get up that far. The shuttles are great
                                though
                                > > so
                                > > > > you could take plenty of afternoon time and still get out to
                                > eat
                                > > > your
                                > > > > dinner.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Look at me, I've been up the narrows twice and am acting
                                like
                                > an
                                > > > > expert :) Seriously, look at the archives of this group,
                                these
                                > > two
                                > > > > hikes are heavily discussed.
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • tdullmaier
                                Thanks Tom. Then I ll definitely rent the neoprene socks and possible a small water bag for my gear. I always hike with poles so that won t be an issue.
                                Message 15 of 15 , Oct 22, 2008
                                  Thanks Tom. Then I'll definitely rent the neoprene socks and
                                  possible a small water bag for my gear. I always hike with poles so
                                  that won't be an issue.

                                  Terry

                                  --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Tom Jones"
                                  <ratagonia@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Worn with a neoprene sock, it looks like it would do pretty well.
                                  >
                                  > Tom
                                  >
                                  > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                                  > <tdullmaier@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I bought some Columbia aquatooth water shoes. Do you think those
                                  > > would be good enough for the Narrows? Or should I rent some
                                  > > canyoneering shoes in Springdale?
                                  > >
                                  > > Terry
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "Shaun"
                                  > > <trackrunner83@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > When I did the narrows it was just in old running shoes. I was
                                  > OK
                                  > > but
                                  > > > YMMV. I've since upgrade to canyoneering shoes that shed water
                                  > > nicely.
                                  > > > I think you'll be fine if you did Angle's landing and hiked the
                                  > > lower
                                  > > > Narrows from the Temple of Sinawa (sp?) in a single day.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "tdullmaier"
                                  > > > <tdullmaier@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The different gear, particularly footwear, is something that
                                  > > hadn't
                                  > > > > occurred to me and is an excellent point. Would it help to
                                  > try
                                  > > and
                                  > > > > stay at the lodge in the park? This trip isn't until May
                                  2010
                                  > so
                                  > > I
                                  > > > > can still possibly get reservations. Would staying there
                                  make
                                  > it
                                  > > > > easier to stop at your room and change gear? I don't know
                                  > where
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > lodge is located in relationship to the trails and the
                                  > shuttle.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > We will try not to have to do them the same day but we may
                                  not
                                  > > have
                                  > > > a
                                  > > > > choice. We'll try to get a permit for the Subway and a lot
                                  > will
                                  > > > just
                                  > > > > depend on whether we get a permit, weather, etc. I just
                                  > wanted
                                  > > to
                                  > > > > know if it was possible in case that was our only option.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Thanks for the info. Please let me know if you think staying
                                  > at
                                  > > > the
                                  > > > > lodge in the park would solve the gear issue.
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > Terry
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > --- In
                                  Zion_National_Park_Hiking@yahoogroups.com, "mojave_ben"
                                  > > > > <mojave_ben@> wrote:
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Definitely can do, though the Narrows is worth more time
                                  > than
                                  > > > > that.
                                  > > > > > We did it (with a 7 yr old) two summers ago, late July, so
                                  > > > similar
                                  > > > > > light. We weren't even on the first shuttle; got to the VC
                                  > > > around
                                  > > > > 7
                                  > > > > > driving in from St. George.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Great to be out early and beat the crowds on Angel's
                                  Landing.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > One issue is that you need rather different gear for the
                                  two
                                  > > > hikes,
                                  > > > > > and don't want to go back out on the shuttle - not enough
                                  > > time.
                                  > > > > You
                                  > > > > > can stash stuff in the bushes near the bottom of Angel's
                                  > > > landing.
                                  > > > > > But we wore boots and then switched into water gear at the
                                  > > > narrows,
                                  > > > > > tying the boots on our packs. Waterproof bags are useful
                                  to
                                  > > > > protect
                                  > > > > > the rest of your stuff. You really benefit from at least
                                  > one
                                  > > > > hiking
                                  > > > > > stick and good water shoes. Me, I have fairly thin ones
                                  > with
                                  > > > rigid
                                  > > > > > soles and straps, and I wear them over neoprene socks which
                                  > I
                                  > > > love.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Critical is flow in the river. That time of year is before
                                  > > real
                                  > > > > > thunderstorm time but you want to get there after snow
                                  > melt.
                                  > > Two
                                  > > > > > years ago we went up at around 30 cfs and this summer we
                                  > went
                                  > > up
                                  > > > at
                                  > > > > > 50 and I can tell you, 50 really is a lot more work! Plus
                                  > the
                                  > > > > water
                                  > > > > > was silty so harder to see the bottom.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Issue is that narrows get better past Orderville so you
                                  > really
                                  > > > hope
                                  > > > > > to have time to get up that far. The shuttles are great
                                  > though
                                  > > > so
                                  > > > > > you could take plenty of afternoon time and still get out
                                  to
                                  > > eat
                                  > > > > your
                                  > > > > > dinner.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > > > Look at me, I've been up the narrows twice and am acting
                                  > like
                                  > > an
                                  > > > > > expert :) Seriously, look at the archives of this group,
                                  > these
                                  > > > two
                                  > > > > > hikes are heavily discussed.
                                  > > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  >
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