Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: More Shonomen Yuri

Expand Messages
  • Hypatia Kosh <athena_sappho@yahoo.com>
    ... will NEVER experience. So in other words, all of his ideas were taken from other stoies or porn, written or preformed by, yes you guessed it, lesbians.
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
      --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Jared Plotkin" <cow10001@m...> wrote:
      > Secondly, when a male writes Yuri sex, he is writing something he
      will NEVER experience. So in other words, all of his ideas were taken
      from other stoies or porn, written or preformed by, yes you guessed
      it, lesbians.

      Maybe so (a lot of women in the sex industry *are* lesbians) but
      there's a world of difference between "lesbian" porn intended for
      straight male consumption and lesbian by/for lesbian porn.

      > So in other words, when a guy writes Yuri or a girl writes it, gay
      or straight it really isn't that different because everbody is copying
      the real gay girls in the first place. I challenge ANYONE to be able
      to deciper gender soley on a story. It cant be done. Guys and girls
      dont write it that different.

      I disagree. In slash fandom there are a few men who have immersed
      themselves in the lesbian subculture and can write convincingly from a
      gay or bi girl's POV. Most men, however, do not bother.

      It's common, at least in the yuri I've read, not to really address the
      homosexual issue and just say "love is love and sex is sex." I don't
      necessarily have a problem with this. However, I can often tell a male
      writer by the emotional falseness (and often rather ridiculous sex
      scenes).

      > In responce to people saying certain stories have sex and only sex,
      yes that is true. But i know many lesbians who write like that, and
      many straight guys who dont. So you cant use that to judge.
      >

      Sure, we women (er, "we"--well, I'm a bio woman so I'm including
      myself for the moment) do write stories that are just sex, or
      anonymous sex, or whatever.

      The difference between men's and women's writing is more subtle. For
      example, I read a story by a guy where this woman went on a bit of a
      sexual adventure and had sex with about 3 different women. The jarring
      moments came at the end of the story. Not only were the women's
      reactions to their "new found sexuality" just *strange* but the
      protagonist seemed to experience no emotional difference in having sex
      with her close friend, versus total strangers. Huh? And I repeat:
      huh??? I don't think so!

      > And this is the INTERNET for crying out loud. I bet 1/3 of the
      people you talk to lie about their gender, anyway!

      Of course they do. Doesn't mean there aren't women who write really
      ridiculous m/m and men who write really ridiculous f/f.

      > Lastly, i dont "prefer" stories written by guys or girls. If you can
      write good, then i like it. Simple as that.

      Good writing transcends the identity and gender of the writer. The
      best fiction will not scream "straight woman wrote this!" or "jerky
      guy wrote this!"

      -Hypatia
    • Eltink, Royi
      ... ...Suddenly there comes this 14-year old yaoi fangal to mind who asks me if I would check the fanfic she wrote... 0_0 Ro
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
        > First of all, it has come to my attention that somebody said
        > that the general populace thinks that feminine males are sexy.
        > I wouldn't know (I am not attracted to guys) but i serioulsly
        > doubt it. Sure, feminine guys from boy bands and stuff might
        > get attention, but mostly from 13 year old girls who are
        > afriad of sex. Guys that appeal to older girls often try to
        > be as manly as possilbe. So i dont think this is true.
        >
        > Secondly, when a male writes Yuri sex, he is writing
        > something he will NEVER experience. So in other words, all of
        > his ideas were taken from other stoies or porn, written or
        > preformed by, yes you guessed it, lesbians.

        ...Suddenly there comes this 14-year old yaoi fangal to mind who asks me if I would 'check' the fanfic she wrote... 0_0


        Ro'
      • Hypatia Kosh <athena_sappho@yahoo.com>
        ... I can ... general ... usually a dead ... for that ... if you ... almost ... If I may add to this, I think fiction is inherently self-revelatory, whether
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
          --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Erica Friedman" wrote:
          > Oh, yes they do. It's more about the story around the sex, but I bet
          I can
          > tell gender 9 times out of ten, regardless of the genre. Women in
          general
          > write differently, period. They focus on different things than guys do.
          >

          > You can if you judge not by the sex (although frankly, that's
          usually a dead
          > giveaway, but by the language surrounding the sex...and the context
          for that
          > sex...or lack thereof.
          >

          > But age/experience/maturity/use of language can't lie. I don't care
          if you
          > *say* you're a 35 year old male...your language and worldview will
          almost
          > alwasy give away whther you actually are, or not.

          If I may add to this, I think fiction is inherently self-revelatory,
          whether the author realizes this or not.

          You are absolutely correct about the kind of language used. I much
          prefer it when the writer is able to affect a more "androgynous"
          writing style, rather than choking me with flowery euphemisms or
          attacking me with boot-to-the-head exposition.

          I'm not very good at judging the age of writers (being young myself!)
          but I can tell a kid a mile away. Hey--I was there not too long ago!
          Kids always think they're passing for older too--it's so funny.

          -Hypatia

          --
          http://hypatia.slashcity.org/

          "It's always nice to have an even mix of
          hot gay sex and actual information."

          --Captain Pedantic 12-14-01
        • Erica Friedman
          ... Can you indeed? LOL I bet not. I write fiction. 100% so. And my particular millieu is Voice - my characters rarely, if ever, sound like me...or think
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
            >From: Eleanor Stevens <captaintita@...>

            >On the other hand, you can tell many about Erica's
            >views on life and love in general by how she writes.

            Can you indeed? LOL I bet not. I write fiction. 100% so. And my particular
            millieu is "Voice" - my characters rarely, if ever, sound like me...or think
            like me.

            You'd be hard pressed to determine the things that are important to me frm
            my fiction. With one exception - lesbian sex. Clearly a priority of mine.
            LOL




            Cheers,

            Erica

            Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
            http://www.yuricon.org


            "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
            The Fanfic Revolution - http://www.fanficrevolution.org

            Because fanfic does not have to suck




            _________________________________________________________________
            Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
            http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
          • Sean Gaffney
            ... I once got into a discussion with Nick Leifker, another fic writer, regarding how much of oneself needs to be put in a story. Nick invests almost
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
              > Can you indeed? LOL I bet not. I write fiction. 100% so. And my particular
              > millieu is "Voice" - my characters rarely, if ever, sound like me...or think
              > like me.
              >
              > You'd be hard pressed to determine the things that are important to me frm
              > my fiction. With one exception - lesbian sex. Clearly a priority of mine.
              > LOL

              I once got into a discussion with Nick Leifker, another fic writer,
              regarding how much of oneself needs to be put in a story. Nick
              invests almost everything he is into every story - they're almost
              emotional experiences writing them. Whereas I am very removed from
              anything I write, and despite the large amounts of angst and tears in
              my fics, am always thinking things like "what if I had him step into
              the remains of her head accidentally?" and things like that.

              Certainly, looking over the body of work I've written, if people
              thought they were my views I'm amazed they don't put a bullet in my
              head. ^^;;

              Regarding gender issues and yuri, what do people think about the
              preponderance of nicknames/psuedonyms? I've always written my fics
              as Sean Gaffney, so really haven't experienced anyone mistaking me
              for a woman. (looks at his f/f porn) Not that anyone would anyway.
              ^^;; But is it different for, say, someone who writes as
              Nekochickie, or Integral's Womb, or something like that?

              --SG
            • Shannon Stricof
              Hehe, I thought you were a woman for a long time till I stopped seeing an a at the end of Johann. Whoops, -Shannon Ami Johann Chua
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003

                Hehe, I thought you were a woman for a long time till I stopped seeing an "a" at the end of Johann. Whoops,

                -Shannon Ami 

                 Johann Chua <cjchua@...> wrote:

                I get mistaken for female when I'm using my real name, so I guess a
                _deliberately_ feminine-sounding nickname is likely to make people think
                the author is female.

                Used to use Fuuma Monou as my e-mail nickname but I always used my real
                name in the signature.  I use Fuuma on ff.net, where I was accused of being
                a "lesbien" over my St. Tail yuri lemon.
                --
                Johann Chua -- HP: http://www.geocities.com/fuuma_1999/
                "Does anything last forever? Does love? Does pain? I'll
                tell you when I'm a thousand years old." Karen Kunawicz

                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                Yuricon-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
              • what is a dooky <spookydooky@hotmail.com>
                ... I ve been mistaken for a woman... I think the chan thing does it. I included it initially as a diminutive (yeah, I know it s ungrammatical to use a
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
                  > Regarding gender issues and yuri, what do people think about the
                  > preponderance of nicknames/psuedonyms? I've always written my fics
                  > as Sean Gaffney, so really haven't experienced anyone mistaking me
                  > for a woman. (looks at his f/f porn) Not that anyone would anyway.
                  > ^^;; But is it different for, say, someone who writes as
                  > Nekochickie, or Integral's Womb, or something like that?

                  I've been mistaken for a woman... I think the 'chan' thing does it. I
                  included it initially as a diminutive (yeah, I know it's ungrammatical
                  to use a suffix in your own name ^_^) I'm starting to drop it now,
                  though. One of my fics was reviewed recently, and both of the
                  reviewers thought I was female. One of them has known me online for
                  three years! They were full of apologies after I told them I was male,
                  but I took the whole thing as a compliment. After all, I write mostly
                  female characters, and a significant number of shoujo-ai
                  relationships, so if somebody can still think I'm female after reading
                  my stuff then I must be doing something right. Erica's correct- you
                  can usually tell the gender of the writer (at least in fanfiction
                  ^_^), and this is something I've worked hard to overcome. Not that
                  there's anything wrong with being, or even sounding male, it's just
                  that I'd much rather have a neutral voice. I make no secret of my
                  gender, but I just don't want it to be a huge determining factor on my
                  work.

                  As per the alias thing... as you can probably guess, dooky is not my
                  real name ^_^ I suppose I use an alias because in my everyday life,
                  I'm not a writer or artist. I'm a scientist, and these interests are
                  pretty separate by definition. George Hutcheon is the scientist, and
                  dooky is the writer/artist. This may well be indicative of some major
                  psychological condition, but it works for me ^_~

                  dooky
                • Johann Chua
                  ... I get mistaken for female when I m using my real name, so I guess a _deliberately_ feminine-sounding nickname is likely to make people think the author is
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
                    At 07:02 PM 02/02/2003 -0500, Sean Gaffney wrote:
                    >Regarding gender issues and yuri, what do people think about the
                    >preponderance of nicknames/psuedonyms? I've always written my fics
                    >as Sean Gaffney, so really haven't experienced anyone mistaking me
                    >for a woman. (looks at his f/f porn) Not that anyone would anyway.
                    >^^;; But is it different for, say, someone who writes as
                    >Nekochickie, or Integral's Womb, or something like that?

                    I get mistaken for female when I'm using my real name, so I guess a
                    _deliberately_ feminine-sounding nickname is likely to make people think
                    the author is female.

                    Used to use Fuuma Monou as my e-mail nickname but I always used my real
                    name in the signature. I use Fuuma on ff.net, where I was accused of being
                    a "lesbien" over my St. Tail yuri lemon.
                    --
                    Johann Chua -- HP: http://www.geocities.com/fuuma_1999/
                    "Does anything last forever? Does love? Does pain? I'll
                    tell you when I'm a thousand years old." Karen Kunawicz
                  • Johann Chua
                    ... Probably helps that I mostly keep my ecchiness offline. ^_^ My name without an H would be JoAnn. Hmm. Though if I really wanted to stop the
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
                      At 08:20 PM 02/02/2003 -0800, Shannon Stricof wrote:
                      > Hehe, I thought you were a woman for a long time till I stopped seeing
                      >an "a" at the end of Johann. Whoops,

                      Probably "helps" that I mostly keep my ecchiness offline. ^_^ My name
                      without an H would be JoAnn. Hmm. Though if I really wanted to stop the
                      gender-confusion, I'd be using my second name, Conrad, as well, but that
                      would take up too much header space.

                      There was a Johanna Chua (no relation) in my sister's graduating class in
                      high school.

                      At least one person reads my name as Joanne.
                      --
                      Johann Chua -- HP: http://www.geocities.com/fuuma_1999/
                      "Does anything last forever? Does love? Does pain? I'll
                      tell you when I'm a thousand years old." Karen Kunawicz
                    • Trixterpriest@aol.com
                      ... And I have to say, a damn good one ;p Kun ... *does a little lesbian sex dance*
                      Message 10 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
                        > You'd be hard pressed to determine the things that are important to me frm
                        > my fiction. With one exception - lesbian sex. Clearly a
                        > priority of mine.

                        And I have to say, a damn good one ;p

                        Kun
                        ----'-,-{@

                        *does a little lesbian sex dance*
                      • cricharddavies <cricharddavies@yahoo.com>
                        ... name ... stop the ... that ... You could go by J. Conrad Chua. C. Richard Davies.
                        Message 11 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
                          --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Johann Chua <cjchua@m...> wrote:

                          > Probably "helps" that I mostly keep my ecchiness offline. ^_^ My
                          name
                          > without an H would be JoAnn. Hmm. Though if I really wanted to
                          stop the
                          > gender-confusion, I'd be using my second name, Conrad, as well, but
                          that
                          > would take up too much header space.

                          You could go by J. Conrad Chua.

                          C. Richard Davies.
                        • Eleanor Stevens
                          ... *Sweatdrops* Sorry Johann my mother is errr she s my Mom -.-** there s no other way to describe her. The ironic thing is the guy we got the money order
                          Message 12 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
                            --- Johann Chua <cjchua@...> wrote:

                            > At least one person reads my name as Joanne.
                            > --

                            *Sweatdrops* Sorry Johann my mother is errr she's my
                            Mom -.-** there's no other way to describe her. The
                            ironic thing is the guy we got the money order from is
                            named Johann too. I was verrrrrrry disappointed in her.

                            =====
                            ~Tita

                            "It's Showtime!"-Tita (Plastic Little the Adventures of Captain Tita)

                            http://www.mindmeld.iwarp.com

                            __________________________________________________
                            Do you Yahoo!?
                            Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
                            http://mailplus.yahoo.com
                          • Johann Chua
                            ... The universe does have a sense of humor. Joanne was on the Shoujo ML; your mom wrote Joann on the money order. -- Johann Chua -- HP:
                            Message 13 of 17 , Feb 4, 2003
                              At 06:26 PM 02/03/2003 -0800, Eleanor Stevens wrote:
                              >
                              >--- Johann Chua <cjchua@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >> At least one person reads my name as Joanne.
                              >> --
                              >
                              >*Sweatdrops* Sorry Johann my mother is errr she's my
                              >Mom -.-** there's no other way to describe her. The
                              >ironic thing is the guy we got the money order from is
                              >named Johann too. I was verrrrrrry disappointed in her.

                              The universe does have a sense of humor.

                              "Joanne" was on the Shoujo ML; your mom wrote "Joann" on the money order.
                              --
                              Johann Chua -- HP: http://www.geocities.com/fuuma_1999/
                              "Does anything last forever? Does love? Does pain? I'll
                              tell you when I'm a thousand years old." Karen Kunawicz
                            • Shannon Stricof
                              Remember even God has a sense of humor, look at the platypus (The Dogma opening credits). -Shannon Ami, just cuz I felt the need to add in my 2 bits Johann
                              Message 14 of 17 , Feb 4, 2003

                                "Remember even God has a sense of humor, look at the platypus" (The Dogma opening credits).

                                -Shannon Ami, just cuz I felt the need to add in my 2 bits

                                 Johann Chua <cjchua@...> wrote:



                                The universe does have a sense of humor.



                                Do you Yahoo!?
                                Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.