Re: [Yuricon] Re: [YCML] More shounen (sexist?) yuri
>From: "cricharddavies <cricharddavies@...>"I completely agree - Pattie and I were discussing this last night. In much
>And there are those who *could* claim that a lot of yuri is
>the "masculinization" of female/female relationships, or even of
>female behaviour -- I recall one lesbian mystery I read where the
>detective got rather irritated that everyone expected her to be
>thinking with her ... well, anyway.
yuri two (or more) women meet, and have sex. There's no context, no getting
to know one another, no anything except sex.
A gay male friend of mine said that that was basically how he met new
boyfriends. He'd see someone he found attractive, have sex with them, and
if, afterwards, he liked the guy, they'd start dating.
So in that respect, yuri is a "masculine" approach to lesbian relationships.
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completely>> >> The "feminization" of male/male relationships. They are
>> >> emasculated, and use language normallyassociated with young women.
>> >usually writing said tales, is that last really
>> >Given who is
>> >surprising?to how guys talk that's no excuse.
>>Well, unless they've never been exposed
>>It seems like a deliberate stylechoice.
>Agreed.Does it happen in all yaoi? Or just doujinshi? I don't know a heck of a lot about what sort of idioms (? I think that's the word I want) would be considered "feminine" in Japan, besides the various ways of saying I/me, so I can't recognize these things...Then again, there was a study done (here) that suggested that super-feminine women are really sexy - but feminine men are sexier than more macho men, to the general populace. *shrug* So maybe they're just playing off that.
>>Is it that much of a problem withstraight male characters written by the same authors?
>asnwer this, since I'm not that aware of authors in the yaoi market,
>andif any are also straight shoujo authors. The only thing I can say is
>that if you lok at the near non-verbal qality of most male shoujo loveflattering...
>interests, we're talking about a view of men that isn't that
>trying to get a single
>Male love interest in shoujo romances spend volumes
>sententnce or even the vaguest expression of likeor interest or attraction
>out of their mouths - and usually fail untilsome crisis forces it out of
*thinks* You know, that's really true ^^; Specifically right now I'm thinking of Mamoru from BSSM and Takeo from MTT!, because they're the only shoujo series with romance that I can think of o.x (I don't read plain romances, usually). Perhaps this is why shoujo romance series take hundreds of episodes to complete? :P ^^;Then again, depending on the age of the people involved, it may not be that off-base, for guys OR girls.
>True story - a penpal from Japan told me that she'd been meeting amale
>friend for a few years, a couple of times a year for dinner. Oneday he
>says, "so, when are we getting married?" She's like - are wedating?
>manga fan, he really
>She told me that she felt that because he was a shoujo
>thought it worked like that - you like someone, youdon't have to court
>them, because they also like you, obviously,and then you get married. She
>blamed manga and the fact that he didn'thave any sisters. LOL*lol* That's pretty funny, though I do find it doubtful that reading shoujo manga would have such a heavy impact. Maybe not... but I still don't think it's likely. (Where are the psychiatrists doing studies on these things? I'm moving to Japan when I graduate ;)
>So maybe the feminization of a yaoi couple is to counter theperceived lack
>of introspection and communication of straightmales.Turning them instead into wibbling balls of goo! :D
Though, as with anything, it's a case-by-case thing. I don't recall Zetsuai being particularly wibbly, feminine, or even openly communicative between Kouji and Izumi. *shrug* Maybe it's the only one? ^^;-Alex
- --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Johann Chua <cjchua@m...> wrote:
> >They may have been exposed, but it may have been noise instead of
> >Given who is usually writing said tales, is that last really
> Well, unless they've never been exposed to how guys talk that's no
signal. If you're deliberately trying not to listen, it doesn't
matter if you hear.
> It seems like a deliberate style choice. Is it that much of aproblem with
> (presumably) straight male characters written by the same authors?<considers the now-thankfully dead "sekkushiaru roman" subgenre of
Sailor Moon fanfic> Yes.
- --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Picchetti" <nuriseiya@r...>
> >True story - a penpal from Japan told me that she'd been meeting amale
> >friend for a few years, a couple of times a year for dinner. Oneday he
> >says, "so, when are we getting married?" She's like - are wedating?
> >he really
> >She told me that she felt that because he was a shoujo manga fan,
> >thought it worked like that - you like someone, you don't have tocourt
> >them, because they also like you, obviously, and then you getmarried. She
> >blamed manga and the fact that he didn't have any sisters. LOLReally? Know a lot of people who take their cues on how to act tough
> *lol* That's pretty funny, though I do find it doubtful that
> reading shoujo manga would have such a heavy impact.
from pro-wrestling and action movies? Know anyone who seems to sample
his or her bon mots from sitcoms? Know anyone who pauses for the
We all know people who have a soundtrack, but that's more of a "those
darned portable music machines" problem. :)