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Re: "Strawberry Panic" Wanted (Costs)

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  • Lyn
    Sorry, Erica, if I hit a sensitive spot. I agree with all you say, and believe me, I want to support you and the rest of the manga community. That s why I
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 28, 2011
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      Sorry, Erica, if I hit a sensitive spot. I agree with all you say, and believe me, I want to support you and the rest of the manga community. That's why I buy all the manga I do. But for me, the price of being a dedicated fangurl and supporting manga is a sensitive spot, too.

      This year I've bought perhaps thirty manga, when my budget broke somewhere around the "ten or twelve" mark. I buy from a number of sources--cons, online, and manga bookstores. Some manga I've bought new, some used. I've tried to make my purchases in ways that support both the retailers and the publishers.

      I won't go into the details of my finances. Let's just say I'm on Social Security and eek out a few extra dollars with my writing.
      Therefore I've found ways over the years to stretch my fan dollar including trading and borrowing from other fans or buying used manga. My choice isn't between buying used or buying new, it's buying (or trading for) used or doing without.

      Believe me, I want to support your business and you're on my list to purchase manga from--but right now I'm arguing with myself about five other manga titles from other retailers--my good angel saying, "But you can't afford it" and my other good angel saying, "support manga!"

      Maybe I'll read "Strawberry Panic" and find it "pandering and skanky," but it won't be the first time I've read a manga I found "pandering and skanky," and it appears "Strawberry Panic" is the most popular of the Seven Seas yuri titles, so I'd like to someday take the opportunity to find out for myself whether I think it's "pandering and skanky" or not.

      Sorry about any miscommunication but don't you agree the yuri titles available in the USA (yours, Seven Seas, etc.) are selling to a fan base, even if that fan base is very small? I understand the market's profit-driven but you can sell to a niche, you just have to sell to the right people in that niche. I'd like to see the manga community develop so that artists may finish the projects they started, that's all.


      --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "EricaF" <anilesbocon01@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Lyn" <lynmarenjensen@> wrote:
      >
      > > I was hoping I might find someone who would be willing to swap the manga (either the omnibus or the single vols.) for some manga magazines or other items I have, but that's something that can be discussed off-site. Even if I ended up paying, I'd prefer my dollars went to someone in the manga community before I gave money to a big corporate company like amazon.com.
      >
      > When you buy a new copy, your money *does* go to the manga community - the authors gets money based on sales. Buying used copies doesn't, in fact, give any money back to any of the people involved in the industry.
      >
      > > I agree the library's an option, Erica, but mine charges fees for interlibrary loan. After a while, those add up.
      >
      > It costs a lot to ship books for you, too.
      >
      > >
      > > And it is sad that "Strawberry Panic" is just one more example of a promising and popular manga (at least on a fan or niche level) that remains unfinished. I'd like to see, over the next decade, the international manga community work together to foster an environment in which manga with a demonstrated fan base can be completed.
      >
      > Obviously your opinion is valid and I'm not arguing with you, but from my perspective, this was a pandering and skanky manga, hardly something I would consider a paragon of lesbian love. I know I'm in a minority on this, but the covers are a dead giveaway IMHO.
      >
      > Also I should point out that Yuri fandom has repeated proven that it is *not* a demonstrated fan base. Look at your desire to save a few bucks and not buy a copy of an in-print book. Yuri books simply do not sell all that well, and have not yet really been seen to support further efforts in publishing this genre.
      >
      >
      > If this fandom bought what it wanted to read/watch, there'd be *way* more of it. Publishers aren't avoiding Yuri for philosophical reasons. They aren't publishing Yuri, because they can't *sell* enough of it to make it worth the costs.
      >
      > Cheers,
      >
      > Erica
      >
    • Erica Friedman
      Hi Lyn - ... I m not saying your reasons aren t valid. But that is one less sale. When the majority of a fanbase has more reasons to not buy than sales are
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 28, 2011
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        Hi Lyn - 


        > Sorry about any miscommunication but don't you agree the yuri titles available in the USA (yours, Seven Seas, etc.) are selling to a fan base, even if that fan base is very small? I understand the market's profit-driven but you can sell to a niche, you just have to sell to the right people in that niche. I'd like to see the manga community develop so that artists may finish the projects they started, that's all. 

        I'm not saying your reasons aren't valid. But that is one less sale. When the majority of a fanbase has more reasons to not buy than sales are made, there are no profits to invest in the next project.

        The reality of publishing is that the amount of work it takes to publish a book means a certain number of books have to sell to make those costs back. If the fanbase is so small that the costs are not made up, or barely, no company has more money to pour into a losing battle. Yuri is - at the moment - a losing battle. Maybe there are 10K Yuri fans in the west. When only 20% of them buy a book, it really doesn't matter if they all "want" that book.

        I was asked by a company about the likelihood of sales for Aoi Hana. Presuming *really excellent* sales (pre-Wandering Son, so hardly anyone outside the Yuri audience knew the name of the artist,) and based on estimates I had from conversations with other publishers I could predict 4000 copies in sales. And that is only if the book sold incredibly well for a Yuri title. That would just barely cover the costs of a printing. There is no incentive for a publisher to cough up tens of thousands of dollars up front in hopes that, after a few years of working at it, they might make back that money. That's not how business works

        The Yuri market is simply too small to be self-supporting right now. Even saturating that niche means not enough sales for any one title to support the costs of bringing that title to print.  Believing anything else is really, honestly, just delusion.

        Cheers,

         Erica 

        Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated." http://www.yuricon.org Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com"World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com

        > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
        > From: lynmarenjensen@...
        > Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 19:11:11 +0000
        > Subject: [Yuricon] Re: "Strawberry Panic" Wanted (Costs)
        >
        > Sorry, Erica, if I hit a sensitive spot. I agree with all you say, and believe me, I want to support you and the rest of the manga community. That's why I buy all the manga I do. But for me, the price of being a dedicated fangurl and supporting manga is a sensitive spot, too.
        >
        > This year I've bought perhaps thirty manga, when my budget broke somewhere around the "ten or twelve" mark. I buy from a number of sources--cons, online, and manga bookstores. Some manga I've bought new, some used. I've tried to make my purchases in ways that support both the retailers and the publishers.
        >
        > I won't go into the details of my finances. Let's just say I'm on Social Security and eek out a few extra dollars with my writing.
        > Therefore I've found ways over the years to stretch my fan dollar including trading and borrowing from other fans or buying used manga. My choice isn't between buying used or buying new, it's buying (or trading for) used or doing without.
        >
        > Believe me, I want to support your business and you're on my list to purchase manga from--but right now I'm arguing with myself about five other manga titles from other retailers--my good angel saying, "But you can't afford it" and my other good angel saying, "support manga!"
        >
        > Maybe I'll read "Strawberry Panic" and find it "pandering and skanky," but it won't be the first time I've read a manga I found "pandering and skanky," and it appears "Strawberry Panic" is the most popular of the Seven Seas yuri titles, so I'd like to someday take the opportunity to find out for myself whether I think it's "pandering and skanky" or not.
        >
        > Sorry about any miscommunication but don't you agree the yuri titles available in the USA (yours, Seven Seas, etc.) are selling to a fan base, even if that fan base is very small? I understand the market's profit-driven but you can sell to a niche, you just have to sell to the right people in that niche. I'd like to see the manga community develop so that artists may finish the projects they started, that's all.
        >
        >
        > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "EricaF" <anilesbocon01@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Lyn" <lynmarenjensen@> wrote:
        > >
        > > > I was hoping I might find someone who would be willing to swap the manga (either the omnibus or the single vols.) for some manga magazines or other items I have, but that's something that can be discussed off-site. Even if I ended up paying, I'd prefer my dollars went to someone in the manga community before I gave money to a big corporate company like amazon.com.
        > >
        > > When you buy a new copy, your money *does* go to the manga community - the authors gets money based on sales. Buying used copies doesn't, in fact, give any money back to any of the people involved in the industry.
        > >
        > > > I agree the library's an option, Erica, but mine charges fees for interlibrary loan. After a while, those add up.
        > >
        > > It costs a lot to ship books for you, too.
        > >
        > > >
        > > > And it is sad that "Strawberry Panic" is just one more example of a promising and popular manga (at least on a fan or niche level) that remains unfinished. I'd like to see, over the next decade, the international manga community work together to foster an environment in which manga with a demonstrated fan base can be completed.
        > >
        > > Obviously your opinion is valid and I'm not arguing with you, but from my perspective, this was a pandering and skanky manga, hardly something I would consider a paragon of lesbian love. I know I'm in a minority on this, but the covers are a dead giveaway IMHO.
        > >
        > > Also I should point out that Yuri fandom has repeated proven that it is *not* a demonstrated fan base. Look at your desire to save a few bucks and not buy a copy of an in-print book. Yuri books simply do not sell all that well, and have not yet really been seen to support further efforts in publishing this genre.
        > >
        > >
        > > If this fandom bought what it wanted to read/watch, there'd be *way* more of it. Publishers aren't avoiding Yuri for philosophical reasons. They aren't publishing Yuri, because they can't *sell* enough of it to make it worth the costs.
        > >
        > > Cheers,
        > >
        > > Erica
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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