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Re: [Yuricon] Suggestions for Learning Japanese

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  • Rei Shaw
    Once you ve learned your kana i d recommend a book on Kanji and just work through learning a few a day... you also need to learn the grammar of course... but
    Message 1 of 9 , May 10, 2011
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      Once you've learned your kana i'd recommend a book on Kanji and just work through learning a few a day... you also need to learn the grammar of course... but if you want to be able to read you need to learn as many kanji as possible.

      On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Val <szeweii@...> wrote:
       

      Hi all!

      Can anybody suggest some ways to learn Japanese that doesn't involve taking formal classes? I would like to learn both spoken and written Japanese, though I think I'd rather focus on the reading first.

      Perhaps someone can suggest some helpful books to get me started?

      Cheers,
      Val


    • r schneider
      I picked up Japanese the Manga Way. Borrowing Language books from the library, may prove useful. Robin ________________________________ From: Erica Friedman
      Message 2 of 9 , May 11, 2011
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      I picked up Japanese the Manga Way.  Borrowing Language books from the library, may prove useful.

      Robin


      From: Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...>
      To: yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, May 10, 2011 1:51:14 PM
      Subject: RE: [Yuricon] Suggestions for Learning Japanese

       

      Part of the problem with this is that we all learn so differently. I remember way back, I had about a zillion people recommend a book to me. It was pretty expensive, but everyone kept saying it was the most amazing way to learn kanji. So I bought it...and found that it was utterly useless to me.  The problem was not that the book was bad, but it didn't fit my style of learning at all. What it did was make cute little story out of the kanji characters, and use the stories to teach you the pronunciation and how to write it. I couldn't learn a thing from it! I hate mnemonic devices, because I learn by pure memorization and them I have to memorize the actual thing and also the stupid mnemonic device. ^_^ And I'm not visually inclined, so I never saw the bird in a tree or whatever thing the book came up with.


      I started with a basic workbook on katakana and hiragana until I had those mostly memorized. (I still mix up a few now and again.) Then I started to read manga and just kept looking stuff up in dictionaries based on the hiragana next to the kanji. I learn mostly by context, so the rules of grammar just sort of fell into place (except -nara and -ba/i endings and other conditionals, which took me years to figure out.) When I see a kanji many times I stop, make myself recognize and remember it and move on. So, my way of learning is annoying and unique to me and I can't suggest anything helpful. 



      I will say this - once you have a basic grasp of grammar and characters, don't be afraid to read way past your abilities. And don't bother with children's books - everything is in hiragana and katakana, so without the context you'd have from having people around you speaking, it's actually harder to learn from those than books with kanji - which at least give you a very specific set of meanings to chose from.






      Cheers,


      Erica  





      To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      From: wraposka@...
      Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 00:27:52 -0700
      Subject: Re: [Yuricon] Suggestions for Learning Japanese



      Hi Val,


      It might be hard to find books for beginners that mainly focus on reading, but perhaps they are out there.


      For learning kana I started out with ’kana de manga’. It didn’t do that much for me in regard to memorizing the characters, but it’s good for learning how to write once you got them memorized (or as part of the process).  And it’s inexpensive. I combined it with realkana.com - simple exercises designed for memorization. They also have a 'Kanji de Manga' series.


      In my class we use ‘Japanese for Busy People’ because book one has a Romanized version so you can learn the basics of grammar and vocabulary before the actual reading/writing. This of course has its problems, but if you take care to also focus on learning the kana you should be ok. The Romanized version also has kana.


      My teacher says it isn’t anywhere near as good as ‘Genki’ and ‘Minna no Nihongo’, but her experience is that too many students give up with the other books since we only have one class a week – almost self study. It’s mainly geared towards being able to communicate while working in (or visiting) Japan, but you can’t avoid learning to read along the way. Also, it’s not as expensive as ‘Genki’ and ‘Minna no Nihongo’.


      ‘Japanese for Young People’ is also good for self study I heard. Same price level as ‘Japanese for Busy People’.


      Combine it, or whichever book you end up with, with web resources like livemocha.com (free lessons like ‘Rosetta Stone’, but recently I have been receiving an increasing amount of spam messages from them!), or japanese.about.com.


      Best


      Dubbi



      --- On Mon, 5/9/11, Val <szeweii@...> wrote:

      From: Val <szeweii@...>
      Subject: [Yuricon] Suggestions for Learning Japanese
      To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, May 9, 2011, 2:37 PM

       
      Hi all!

      Can anybody suggest some ways to learn Japanese that doesn't involve taking formal classes? I would like to learn both spoken and written Japanese, though I think I'd rather focus on the reading first.

      Perhaps someone can suggest some helpful books to get me started?

      Cheers,
      Val




    • Lyn
      I never tried Rosetta Stone but it might be worth checking out.
      Message 3 of 9 , May 12, 2011
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        I never tried Rosetta Stone but it might be worth checking out.

        --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, r schneider <rgschn@...> wrote:
        >
        > I picked up Japanese the Manga Way. Borrowing Language books from the library,
        > may prove useful.
        >
        > Robin
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > From: Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...>
        > To: yuricon@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Tue, May 10, 2011 1:51:14 PM
        > Subject: RE: [Yuricon] Suggestions for Learning Japanese
        >
        >
        > Part of the problem with this is that we all learn so differently. I remember
        > way back, I had about a zillion people recommend a book to me. It was pretty
        > expensive, but everyone kept saying it was the most amazing way to learn kanji.
        > So I bought it...and found that it was utterly useless to me. The problem was
        > not that the book was bad, but it didn't fit my style of learning at all. What
        > it did was make cute little story out of the kanji characters, and use the
        > stories to teach you the pronunciation and how to write it. I couldn't learn a
        > thing from it! I hate mnemonic devices, because I learn by pure memorization and
        > them I have to memorize the actual thing and also the stupid mnemonic device.
        > ^_^ And I'm not visually inclined, so I never saw the bird in a tree or whatever
        > thing the book came up with.
        >
        >
        > I started with a basic workbook on katakana and hiragana until I had those
        > mostly memorized. (I still mix up a few now and again.) Then I started to read
        > manga and just kept looking stuff up in dictionaries based on the hiragana next
        > to the kanji. I learn mostly by context, so the rules of grammar just sort of
        > fell into place (except -nara and -ba/i endings and other conditionals, which
        > took me years to figure out.) When I see a kanji many times I stop, make myself
        > recognize and remember it and move on. So, my way of learning is annoying and
        > unique to me and I can't suggest anything helpful.
        >
        >
        >
        > I will say this - once you have a basic grasp of grammar and characters, don't
        > be afraid to read way past your abilities. And don't bother with children's
        > books - everything is in hiragana and katakana, so without the context you'd
        > have from having people around you speaking, it's actually harder to learn from
        > those than books with kanji - which at least give you a very specific set of
        > meanings to chose from.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        >
        > Erica
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ________________________________
        > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
        > From: wraposka@...
        > Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 00:27:52 -0700
        > Subject: Re: [Yuricon] Suggestions for Learning Japanese
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi Val,
        >
        > It might be hard to find books for beginners that mainly focus on reading, but
        > perhaps they are out there.
        >
        > For learning kana I started out with ’kanademanga’. It didn’t do that much for
        > me in regard to memorizing the characters, but it’s good for learning how to
        > write once you got them memorized (or as part of the process). And it’s
        > inexpensive. I combined it with realkana.com - simple exercises designed for
        > memorization. They also have a 'KanjideManga' series.
        >
        >
        > In my class we use ‘Japanese for Busy People’ because book one has a Romanized
        > version so you can learn the basics of grammar and vocabulary before the actual
        > reading/writing. This of course has its problems, but if you take care to also
        > focus on learning the kana you should be ok. The Romanized version also has
        > kana.
        >
        >
        >
        > My teacher says it isn’t anywhere near as good as ‘Genki’ and ‘Minna no
        > Nihongo’, but her experience is that too many students give up with the other
        > books since we only have one class a week â€" almost self study. It’s mainly
        > geared towards being able to communicate while working in (or visiting) Japan,
        > but you can’t avoid learning to read along the way. Also, it’s not as expensive
        > as ‘Genki’ and ‘Minna no Nihongo’.
        >
        >
        >
        > ‘Japanese for Young People’ is also good for self study I heard. Same price
        > level as ‘Japanese for Busy People’.
        >
        >
        >
        > Combine it, or whichever book you end up with, with web resources like
        > livemocha.com (free lessons like ‘Rosetta Stone’, but recently I have been
        > receiving an increasing amount of spam messages from them!), or
        > japanese.about.com.
        >
        >
        > Best
        >
        > Dubbi
        >
        > --- On Mon, 5/9/11, Val <szeweii@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > >From: Val <szeweii@...>
        > >Subject: [Yuricon] Suggestions for Learning Japanese
        > >To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
        > >Date: Monday, May 9, 2011, 2:37 PM
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >Hi all!
        > >
        > >Can anybody suggest some ways to learn Japanese that doesn't involve taking
        > >formal classes? I would like to learn both spoken and written Japanese, though I
        > >think I'd rather focus on the reading first.
        > >
        > >
        > >Perhaps someone can suggest some helpful books to get me started?
        > >
        > >Cheers,
        > >Val
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Val
        Wow! Thanks so much for all the help! I ve been memorizing the kana and I think it ll take awhile but I ll get it. As for kanji, I can read Chinese and it s
        Message 4 of 9 , May 15, 2011
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          Wow!

          Thanks so much for all the help! I've been memorizing the kana and I think it'll take awhile but I'll get it.
          As for kanji, I can read Chinese and it's sort of similar. So, I've been able to pretty much make out the meanings. Only thing is, I wind up reading the words in Mandarin! =P Guess I'll have to get used to pronouncing the words the Japanese way.

          Anyway, thanks again!

          Cheers,
          Val
        • EricaF
          If you can read Chinese, you re way ahead of most of us here. :-) Because kanji are idea/words, I find that I can often read Japanese without knowing what
          Message 5 of 9 , May 15, 2011
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            If you can read Chinese, you're way ahead of most of us here. :-)

            Because kanji are idea/words, I find that I can often "read" Japanese without knowing what the pronunciations are, or how the sentence would be spoken.

            So there will be kanji I know how to read and how they are said, kanjiI know the meaning of, but not how they are said, kanji I don't know, but can guess the context of and kanji that I have no idea at all what they mean or how they are said. As an added bonus, sometimes I know how to pronounce a kanji...but have no idea what it means. This does very interesting things to my head. It definitely does not live in the same place where my brain process my native language. ^_^

            --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Val" <szeweii@...> wrote:
            >
            > Wow!
            >
            > Thanks so much for all the help! I've been memorizing the kana and I think it'll take awhile but I'll get it.
            > As for kanji, I can read Chinese and it's sort of similar. So, I've been able to pretty much make out the meanings. Only thing is, I wind up reading the words in Mandarin! =P Guess I'll have to get used to pronouncing the words the Japanese way.
            >
            > Anyway, thanks again!
            >
            > Cheers,
            > Val
            >
          • miz
            (sighs) I find that as a deterrent from learning Japanese, since I think of Kanji in Cantonese if I read through my Japanese lessons. ... -- -Linda Twitter
            Message 6 of 9 , May 15, 2011
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              (sighs) I find that as a deterrent from learning Japanese, since I think of Kanji in Cantonese if I read through my Japanese lessons.

              On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:22 PM, EricaF <anilesbocon01@...> wrote:
               

              If you can read Chinese, you're way ahead of most of us here. :-)

              Because kanji are idea/words, I find that I can often "read" Japanese without knowing what the pronunciations are, or how the sentence would be spoken.

              So there will be kanji I know how to read and how they are said, kanjiI know the meaning of, but not how they are said, kanji I don't know, but can guess the context of and kanji that I have no idea at all what they mean or how they are said. As an added bonus, sometimes I know how to pronounce a kanji...but have no idea what it means. This does very interesting things to my head. It definitely does not live in the same place where my brain process my native language. ^_^



              --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Val" <szeweii@...> wrote:
              >
              > Wow!
              >
              > Thanks so much for all the help! I've been memorizing the kana and I think it'll take awhile but I'll get it.
              > As for kanji, I can read Chinese and it's sort of similar. So, I've been able to pretty much make out the meanings. Only thing is, I wind up reading the words in Mandarin! =P Guess I'll have to get used to pronouncing the words the Japanese way.
              >
              > Anyway, thanks again!
              >
              > Cheers,
              > Val
              >




              --
              -Linda

              Twitter @animemiz
              http://animemiz.com
              animemiz@...
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