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The Yuri Gap

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  • EricaF
    So I m reading through the piles and piles of stuff I ve got sitting here and I can t but help notice a gap. 1) There s Yuri in which a character is perceived
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 1, 2010
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      So I'm reading through the piles and piles of stuff I've got sitting here and I can't but help notice a gap.

      1) There's Yuri in which a character is perceived to have a one-sided crush. (There's TONS of "Yuri" in which there is no one-sided crush, but fans decide there is and interpret everything to fit their idée fixe.)

      2) There's first love Yuri in which two girls/women realize - to their shock - that they love one another.

      3) There's PWP Yuri in which two girls/women, for virtually no reason whatsoever, suddenly have a physical relationship.

      4) And there's relationship Yuri in which two women are a priori living together as a couple.

      There are *of course* exceptions to these. But in my opinion, there's a distinct gap here. The gap is that bit that interests me most, to be honest.

      It's obviously easy to sell 1) one-sided and crushy Yuri - no commitment is needed from the reader to make the relationship work. And it's pretty easy to sell 4) a pre-existing relationship to a reader because, duh, it's pre-existing so you either accept it or you don't read the manga.

      Most of "Yuri" fits neatly in 2) and 3). First love stories are titillating in an emotional way, and sex in a physical way and sometimes either kind of story can be titillating in either, or both ways. Especially 2) First-love stories. They are often titillating in emotional and physical ways, but still contain the essential opt-out - the implicit understanding that this relationship is impermanent. It's a "school days" thing, it'll go away and the characters will move on and find real meaning and real life in a society-approved relationship with a guy. (Although to be fair, I see a lot less of this now. Yuri fans - even the male Japanese Yuri audience appears to be more willing to accept that these girls are together, the end.)

      And yet...I can't help but notice a gap.

      The gap is that bit after "we're together as a couple" and before "we living together."

      This is the kind of story I covered in "Playing House" in Yuri Monogatari 4 and what "Fufu" is doing in Yuri Hime S. This space when two women are past building a physical relationship out of an emotional one and trying to translate that into real life. Moving in, getting furniture - dealing with bills and budgets and family and food and...stuff.

      So here's the question I have for you all - why do you think this space is the most frequently left empty in Yuri? Have we not gotten there yet, or is this too much like admitting that lesbian couples exist or is it not as interesting to other people as I think it is? Why do *you* think that we can have "fall in love" and "live together" but not the bits in between?

      Interesting answers might possibly become bits of a future Okazu post, so be warned if you plan on being intelligent and/or witty. :-)

      Cheers,

      Erica

      Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
      http://www.yuricon.org
    • Ellen Kuhfeld
      The gap between couple and living together might well happen because the shift from one state to another involves a lot of logistics. And logistics are
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 1, 2010
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        Message
        The gap between 'couple' and 'living together' might well happen because the shift from one state to another involves a lot of logistics. And logistics are mundane. You have to work harder to make a story out of the mundane.
         
        Ellen
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EricaF
        Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2010 11:00 AM
        To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Yuricon] The Yuri Gap

           [snip]
         

        So I'm reading through the piles and piles of stuff I've got sitting here and I can't but help notice a gap.
        And yet...I can't help but notice a gap.

        The gap is that bit after "we're together as a couple" and before "we living together."

        This is the kind of story I covered in "Playing House" in Yuri Monogatari 4 and what "Fufu" is doing in Yuri Hime S. This space when two women are past building a physical relationship out of an emotional one and trying to translate that into real life. Moving in, getting furniture - dealing with bills and budgets and family and food and...stuff. 

         [snip] 

      • Erica Friedman
        And yet - stories around the mundane are, IMHO, the very best. In Kitchen by Banana Yoshimoto, the standout scene involves so really excellent kastudon. That
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 1, 2010
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          And yet - stories around the mundane are, IMHO, the very best.
          In "Kitchen" by Banana Yoshimoto, the standout scene involves so really excellent kastudon. That scene totally blew me away. :-0


          Cheers,

          Erica

          Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
          http://www.yuricon.org
          Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com

          "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
          The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com







          ________________________________
          > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
          > From: ellen@...
          > Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:31:38 -0500
          > Subject: RE: [Yuricon] The Yuri Gap
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          > gap between 'couple' and 'living together' might well happen because the shift
          > from one state to another involves a lot of logistics. And logistics
          > are mundane. You have to work harder to make a story out of the mundane.
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          > Ellen
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          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
          > [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EricaF
          > Sent:
          > Thursday, April 01, 2010 11:00 AM
          > To:
          > Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Yuricon] The Yuri
          > Gap
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          > [snip]
          >
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          > So I'm reading through the piles and piles of stuff I've got sitting here
          > and I can't but help notice a gap.
          > And yet...I can't help but notice a
          > gap.
          >
          > The gap is that bit after "we're together as a couple" and before
          > "we living together."
          >
          > This is the kind of story I covered in "Playing
          > House" in Yuri Monogatari 4 and what "Fufu" is doing in Yuri Hime S. This
          > space when two women are past building a physical relationship out of an
          > emotional one and trying to translate that into real life. Moving in, getting
          > furniture - dealing with bills and budgets and family and food
          > and...stuff.
          >
          > [snip]
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          _________________________________________________________________
          Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
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        • mara_papimer
          A part of me is immediately starts to think of proposal stories and sequences. Where one character must conceive an abstract to propose to the other central
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 1, 2010
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            A part of me is immediately starts to think of 'proposal' stories and sequences. Where one character must conceive an abstract to propose to the other central character. This is sometimes the point of a whole story arc or is skipped over. Although I may be thinking about a point in a relationship just before the 'gap'.

            This kind of drama is harder to fit into smaller stories (How many Yuri romance stories go over 8 volumes?). This is because we need to already care about the characters for there to be adequate tension in the situation. Starting at the gap is something rarely done with romance stories in general.

            However this does not make it impossible, from a strong starting position one could immediately provide the kind of connection to make the readers care about what is happening. In short this sort of problem would not exist for a writer prepared to make an effort.

            So I would say that these stories are underrepresented in romance in general not just Yuri romance. It appears excessive in yuri because there is so little of it, and yuri writers have a tendency to lazily re-tread known ground.

            Additional: was there not a two part story in Rakuen #1 by Nishi Uko that dealt with this point in the relationship? Or have I misunderstood the relationship chronology?

            PPS:
            As it is physically possible for two people to be in a relationship for their whole lives without living together or indeed get and stay married without ever living together I feel I do not understand this question completely. So sorry in advance for any mistakes.

            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            >
            > The gap is that bit after "we're together as a couple" and before >"we're living together."
            >
          • EricaF
            ... Collectors which was, happily, continued in Volume 2 of Rakuen le Paradis, is about this very thing - people in a long-term relationship that don t share
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 1, 2010
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              --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "mara_papimer" <in_the_name_of_union7@...> wrote:

              > Additional: was there not a two part story in Rakuen #1 by Nishi Uko that dealt with this point in the relationship? Or have I misunderstood the relationship chronology?
              >
              > PPS:
              > As it is physically possible for two people to be in a relationship for their whole lives without living together or indeed get and stay married without ever living together I feel I do not understand this question completely. So sorry in advance for any mistakes.


              "Collectors" which was, happily, continued in Volume 2 of Rakuen le Paradis, is about this very thing - people in a long-term relationship that don't share an apartment. The second chapter had a line that made me snort-lol. ;-)

              I did say that there were *of course* exceptions and hope that people respond to the issue, rather than list the exceptions that must *of course* exist. :-)

              Cheers,

              Erica
            • mara_papimer
              Just wanted to show that there was some hope after saying that it was a difficult thing to write earlier, sorry if I gave that impression...m(_::_)m.
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 1, 2010
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                Just wanted to show that there was some hope after saying that it was a difficult thing to write earlier, sorry if I gave that impression...m(_::_)m.

                --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "EricaF" <anilesbocon01@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > "Collectors" which was, happily, continued in Volume 2 of Rakuen le Paradis, is about this very thing - people in a long-term relationship that don't share an apartment. The second chapter had a line that made me snort-lol. ;-)
                >
                > I did say that there were *of course* exceptions and hope that people respond to the issue, rather than list the exceptions that must *of course* exist. :-)
                >
                > Cheers,
                >
                > Erica
                >
              • Kim Possible & Shego Rock!
                Well, considering that the ¡°gap¡± you speak of usually only lasts a few days to a few weeks in lesbian relationships I¡¯m not sure what you expect the
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 1, 2010
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                  Well, considering that the “gap” you speak of usually only lasts a few days to a few weeks in lesbian relationships I’m not sure what you expect the mangaka to write about… seriously.  And there are many one-shots that deal with that tiny gap. 

                   

                  What I see a lack of is two out lesbians that are NOT girlgins falling in love with each other and their relationship.  I too, would like to see a manga that is not about first love, the “we’re soul-mates, destined to only be with each other forever,” crap OR the “OMG I totally had no idea I was a big raging dyke until I met you lesbian-san and now we can be super gay together!...  just don’t tell anyone!” <rolls eyes>…but alas back to the gap.  In all my years I have never seen this gap drag on unless there was a block in the relationship. i.e. one girl (or both) was not out, one girl (or both) was not sure she was really a lesbian or the usual commitment cold feet.  None of these scenarios interest me in the least unless you throw in heaps of fetish and HLS to keep me occupied during all the rage inducing moments of self-doubt and indecision.  I have enough of that poop in Sasameki Koto, Girl Friends and (insert popular yuri title here) without suffering through “grown” women who should know better go through that.

                   

                  In my perfect manga, the first chapter would start with one woman getting dumped and the other leaving her long-term partner.  The mangaka would show us the slow transition from being in a relationship - to single - to meeting that special someone and starting a new life with them. Sometimes, your second or third relationship can be way more scary and an even grander adventure than your first time falling in love. This time around you (think) you’re wiser, a little jaded and emotionally cautious.  The silly little things that once swept you off your feet now make you laugh with an almost contemptuous mirth at how you ever fell for that fluffy stuff in the first place.   And once you start to fall again, you know exactly what you’re feeling and you try to fight it not because you do not want it to happen but because you do and you know NOW how fragile a lover’s promises are  and painfully short forever can really be!  THAT is what I want to see, two women that have been around the park so to speak falling in love again and how their past experiences mold their current relationship… along, of course, with some BDSM and frilly dresses just ‘cause that’s my style! ;)

                   

                  Audio Erotica

                   

                   

                   

                  From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EricaF
                  Sent: 2010
                  41 11:00
                  To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Yuricon] The Yuri Gap

                   

                   

                  So I'm reading through the piles and piles of stuff I've got sitting here and I can't but help notice a gap.

                  1) There's Yuri in which a character is perceived to have a one-sided crush. (There's TONS of "Yuri" in which there is no one-sided crush, but fans decide there is and interpret everything to fit their idée fixe.)

                  2) There's first love Yuri in which two girls/women realize - to their shock - that they love one another.

                  3) There's PWP Yuri in which two girls/women, for virtually no reason whatsoever, suddenly have a physical relationship.

                  4) And there's relationship Yuri in which two women are a priori living together as a couple.

                  There are *of course* exceptions to these. But in my opinion, there's a distinct gap here. The gap is that bit that interests me most, to be honest.

                  It's obviously easy to sell 1) one-sided and crushy Yuri - no commitment is needed from the reader to make the relationship work. And it's pretty easy to sell 4) a pre-existing relationship to a reader because, duh, it's pre-existing so you either accept it or you don't read the manga.

                  Most of "Yuri" fits neatly in 2) and 3). First love stories are titillating in an emotional way, and sex in a physical way and sometimes either kind of story can be titillating in either, or both ways. Especially 2) First-love stories. They are often titillating in emotional and physical ways, but still contain the essential opt-out - the implicit understanding that this relationship is impermanent. It's a "school days" thing, it'll go away and the characters will move on and find real meaning and real life in a society-approved relationship with a guy. (Although to be fair, I see a lot less of this now. Yuri fans - even the male Japanese Yuri audience appears to be more willing to accept that these girls are together, the end.)

                  And yet...I can't help but notice a gap.

                  The gap is that bit after "we're together as a couple" and before "we living together."

                  This is the kind of story I covered in "Playing House" in Yuri Monogatari 4 and what "Fufu" is doing in Yuri Hime S. This space when two women are past building a physical relationship out of an emotional one and trying to translate that into real life. Moving in, getting furniture - dealing with bills and budgets and family and food and...stuff.

                  So here's the question I have for you all - why do you think this space is the most frequently left empty in Yuri? Have we not gotten there yet, or is this too much like admitting that lesbian couples exist or is it not as interesting to other people as I think it is? Why do *you* think that we can have "fall in love" and "live together" but not the bits in between?

                  Interesting answers might possibly become bits of a future Okazu post, so be warned if you plan on being intelligent and/or witty. :-)

                  Cheers,

                  Erica

                  Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
                  http://www.yuricon.org

                • Richard Beaubien
                  I ve noticed that a fair bit of romance manga (well the stuff that s been done in English), both Shonen and Shoujo, tend to focus on people falling in lover
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 1, 2010
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                    I've noticed that a fair bit of romance manga (well the stuff that's been done in English), both Shonen and Shoujo, tend to focus on people falling in lover for the most part as well. I'm guessing it's easier to write these types of stories and it's a proven market for the publishers. That and you can make falling in love appear more exciting easily and that probably plays into the escapism part of the manga market. Yuri manga is probably stuck there as most main stream manga is stuck in that market anyway. Well, for what I've read in English that is.
                     
                     
                  • annelise vlacich
                    Thank you for bringing this up! I m glad to see that I m not the only one who noticed this!!!I think the reason for leaving this gap is because the amount of
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 1, 2010
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                      Thank you for bringing this up! I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who noticed this!!!I think the reason for leaving this gap is because the amount of work you must put into it might take a really long time rather than just skipping it all and have the reader assume the middle-story by themselves. So basically I think maybe the authors would much rather prefer to take the easy way out instead of dragging on a life-building story that some may find boring. (Of course I would most definitely find it to be the most interesting of stories if it filled in the gap in question)
                       

                      To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                      From: anilesbocon01@...
                      Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 15:59:36 +0000
                      Subject: [Yuricon] The Yuri Gap

                       
                      So I'm reading through the piles and piles of stuff I've got sitting here and I can't but help notice a gap.

                      1) There's Yuri in which a character is perceived to have a one-sided crush. (There's TONS of "Yuri" in which there is no one-sided crush, but fans decide there is and interpret everything to fit their idée fixe.)

                      2) There's first love Yuri in which two girls/women realize - to their shock - that they love one another.

                      3) There's PWP Yuri in which two girls/women, for virtually no reason whatsoever, suddenly have a physical relationship.

                      4) And there's relationship Yuri in which two women are a priori living together as a couple.

                      There are *of course* exceptions to these. But in my opinion, there's a distinct gap here. The gap is that bit that interests me most, to be honest.

                      It's obviously easy to sell 1) one-sided and crushy Yuri - no commitment is needed from the reader to make the relationship work. And it's pretty easy to sell 4) a pre-existing relationship to a reader because, duh, it's pre-existing so you either accept it or you don't read the manga.

                      Most of "Yuri" fits neatly in 2) and 3). First love stories are titillating in an emotional way, and sex in a physical way and sometimes either kind of story can be titillating in either, or both ways. Especially 2) First-love stories. They are often titillating in emotional and physical ways, but still contain the essential opt-out - the implicit understanding that this relationship is impermanent. It's a "school days" thing, it'll go away and the characters will move on and find real meaning and real life in a society-approved relationship with a guy. (Although to be fair, I see a lot less of this now. Yuri fans - even the male Japanese Yuri audience appears to be more willing to accept that these girls are together, the end.)

                      And yet...I can't help but notice a gap.

                      The gap is that bit after "we're together as a couple" and before "we living together."

                      This is the kind of story I covered in "Playing House" in Yuri Monogatari 4 and what "Fufu" is doing in Yuri Hime S. This space when two women are past building a physical relationship out of an emotional one and trying to translate that into real life. Moving in, getting furniture - dealing with bills and budgets and family and food and...stuff.

                      So here's the question I have for you all - why do you think this space is the most frequently left empty in Yuri? Have we not gotten there yet, or is this too much like admitting that lesbian couples exist or is it not as interesting to other people as I think it is? Why do *you* think that we can have "fall in love" and "live together" but not the bits in between?

                      Interesting answers might possibly become bits of a future Okazu post, so be warned if you plan on being intelligent and/or witty. :-)

                      Cheers,

                      Erica

                      Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated. "
                      http://www.yuricon. org




                      Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.
                    • Wunderlampe
                      I realize I m probably repeating what others have said, but I get the feeling you re over thinking this. The reason that it isn t seen much is what Ellen
                      Message 10 of 15 , Apr 5, 2010
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                        I realize I'm probably repeating what others have said, but I get the feeling you're over thinking this. The reason that it isn't seen much is what Ellen mentions - moving house, moving in etc. are not what I would think of as full of dramatic potential.

                        [SPOILER ALERT]


                        In fact, I can think of only one love story I know that has that in it, and that's W Juliet, and then only at the very end. BTW, "W Juliet" is an excellent manga, if you're interested, though it's not Yuri. And possibly Utena, when Anthy moves in at the start, but even then it's very short.

                        Back to the subject, how many series with science have anything like the humdrum realism of what working in a lab entails? Or - well, pick your example. Bottom line is that isn't very interesting. There's not that much top notch yuri out there - for the simple reason that there's not that much top notch _anything_ out there - and I'll believe someone making logistics interesting when I see it.

                        Frankly, I'm just glad that there's Yuri that isn't of the schoolgirl "OMG, we're in love!" variety (yes, Saki, I'm looking at you...) which is great fun to heckle, but can get a trifle tiring...


                        --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > And yet - stories around the mundane are, IMHO, the very best.
                        > In "Kitchen" by Banana Yoshimoto, the standout scene involves so really excellent kastudon. That scene totally blew me away. :-0
                        >
                        >
                        > Cheers,
                        >
                        > Erica
                        >
                        > Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
                        > http://www.yuricon.org
                        > Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com
                        >
                        > "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
                        > The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                        > > From: ellen@...
                        > > Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:31:38 -0500
                        > > Subject: RE: [Yuricon] The Yuri Gap
                        > >
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                        > > The
                        > > gap between 'couple' and 'living together' might well happen because the shift
                        > > from one state to another involves a lot of logistics. And logistics
                        > > are mundane. You have to work harder to make a story out of the mundane.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Ellen
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                        > > [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of EricaF
                        > > Sent:
                        > > Thursday, April 01, 2010 11:00 AM
                        > > To:
                        > > Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                        > > Subject: [Yuricon] The Yuri
                        > > Gap
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [snip]
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > So I'm reading through the piles and piles of stuff I've got sitting here
                        > > and I can't but help notice a gap.
                        > > And yet...I can't help but notice a
                        > > gap.
                        > >
                        > > The gap is that bit after "we're together as a couple" and before
                        > > "we living together."
                        > >
                        > > This is the kind of story I covered in "Playing
                        > > House" in Yuri Monogatari 4 and what "Fufu" is doing in Yuri Hime S. This
                        > > space when two women are past building a physical relationship out of an
                        > > emotional one and trying to translate that into real life. Moving in, getting
                        > > furniture - dealing with bills and budgets and family and food
                        > > and...stuff.
                        > >
                        > > [snip]
                        > >
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                        >
                        > _________________________________________________________________
                        > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
                        > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2
                        >
                      • EricaF
                        ... That s pretty obvious. :) In fact, most of what I *do* as a Yuri blogger and industry hack is over think and comment on Yuri. Overthinking comics and
                        Message 11 of 15 , Apr 5, 2010
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                          --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Wunderlampe" <thirohk@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I realize I'm probably repeating what others have said, but I get the feeling you're over thinking this.

                          That's pretty obvious. :)

                          In fact, most of what I *do* as a Yuri blogger and industry hack is over think and comment on Yuri.

                          Overthinking comics and cartoons is what most of fandom spends it's time doing all across the internet. :-)


                          The reason that it isn't seen much is what Ellen mentions - moving house, moving in etc. are not what I would think of as full of dramatic potential.
                          >
                          > [SPOILER ALERT]
                          >
                          >
                          > In fact, I can think of only one love story I know that has that in it, and that's W Juliet, and then only at the very end. BTW, "W Juliet" is an excellent manga, if you're interested, though it's not Yuri. And possibly Utena, when Anthy moves in at the start, but even then it's very short.
                          >
                          > Back to the subject, how many series with science have anything like the humdrum realism of what working in a lab entails? Or - well, pick your example. Bottom line is that isn't very interesting. There's not that much top notch yuri out there - for the simple reason that there's not that much top notch _anything_ out there - and I'll believe someone making logistics interesting when I see it.

                          I understand your point, and I actually disagree. Making the mundane wonderful is exactly what I look for in a writer. That may be the point, though. I'm an adult in a relationship. Humans, look to media for a reflection of self (or what we want out of life.) I do think that day to day life is the most fun and far and away more interesting than giant crises with monsters and screaming. :-)

                          > Frankly, I'm just glad that there's Yuri that isn't of the schoolgirl "OMG, we're in love!" variety (yes, Saki, I'm looking at you...) which is great fun to heckle, but can get a trifle tiring...

                          I'm glad for more of everything.

                          I was just enjoying a bit of overthinking.


                          Cheers,

                          Erica
                        • Shane
                          This is a bit OT but if you are a fan of W Juliet you should be aware that there is a second series detailing their relationship after they graduate and their
                          Message 12 of 15 , Apr 5, 2010
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                            This is a bit OT but if you are a fan of W Juliet you should be aware that there is a second series detailing their relationship after they graduate and their efforts to become actors, W Juliet II. This series includes them moving in together which is kind of where the first series left off IIRC. So while its not Yuri it does cover that buying a house and furniture and moving in together gap.


                            From: Wunderlampe <thirohk@...>
                            To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 1:40:30 AM
                            Subject: [Yuricon] Re: The Yuri Gap

                             

                            I realize I'm probably repeating what others have said, but I get the feeling you're over thinking this. The reason that it isn't seen much is what Ellen mentions - moving house, moving in etc. are not what I would think of as full of dramatic potential.

                            [SPOILER ALERT]

                            In fact, I can think of only one love story I know that has that in it, and that's W Juliet, and then only at the very end. BTW, "W Juliet" is an excellent manga, if you're interested, though it's not Yuri. And possibly Utena, when Anthy moves in at the start, but even then it's very short.

                            Back to the subject, how many series with science have anything like the humdrum realism of what working in a lab entails? Or - well, pick your example. Bottom line is that isn't very interesting. There's not that much top notch yuri out there - for the simple reason that there's not that much top notch _anything_ out there - and I'll believe someone making logistics interesting when I see it.

                            Frankly, I'm just glad that there's Yuri that isn't of the schoolgirl "OMG, we're in love!" variety (yes, Saki, I'm looking at you...) which is great fun to heckle, but can get a trifle tiring...

                            --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups .com, Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@ ...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > And yet - stories around the mundane are, IMHO, the very best.
                            > In "Kitchen" by Banana Yoshimoto, the standout scene involves so really excellent kastudon. That scene totally blew me away. :-0
                            >
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            >
                            > Erica
                            >
                            > Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated. "
                            > http://www.yuricon. org
                            > Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu. blogspot. com
                            >
                            > "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
                            > The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution. blogspot. com
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > ____________ _________ _________ __
                            > > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups .com
                            > > From: ellen@...
                            > > Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:31:38 -0500
                            > > Subject: RE: [Yuricon] The Yuri Gap
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
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                            > >
                            > > The
                            > > gap between 'couple' and 'living together' might well happen because the shift
                            > > from one state to another involves a lot of logistics. And logistics
                            > > are mundane. You have to work harder to make a story out of the mundane.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Ellen
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > -----Original Message-----
                            > > From: Yuricon@yahoogroups .com
                            > > [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of EricaF
                            > > Sent:
                            > > Thursday, April 01, 2010 11:00 AM
                            > > To:
                            > > Yuricon@yahoogroups .com
                            > > Subject: [Yuricon] The Yuri
                            > > Gap
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [snip]
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > So I'm reading through the piles and piles of stuff I've got sitting here
                            > > and I can't but help notice a gap.
                            > > And yet...I can't help but notice a
                            > > gap.
                            > >
                            > > The gap is that bit after "we're together as a couple" and before
                            > > "we living together."
                            > >
                            > > This is the kind of story I covered in "Playing
                            > > House" in Yuri Monogatari 4 and what "Fufu" is doing in Yuri Hime S. This
                            > > space when two women are past building a physical relationship out of an
                            > > emotional one and trying to translate that into real life. Moving in, getting
                            > > furniture - dealing with bills and budgets and family and food
                            > > and...stuff.
                            > >
                            > > [snip]
                            > >
                            > >
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                            >
                            > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                            > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
                            > http://www.windowsl ive.com/campaign /thenewbusy? ocid=PID27925: :T:WLMTAGL: ON:WL:en- US:WM_HMP: 032010_2
                            >


                          • Wunderlampe
                            I m going to be very pedantic here and point out while you re disagreeing with my analysis of what is and is not typically interesting, you re not, here
                            Message 13 of 15 , Apr 7, 2010
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                              I'm going to be very pedantic here and point out while you're disagreeing with my analysis of what is and is not typically interesting, you're not, here anyway, disagreeing that many more might see things my way - or be able to perform your way (basically, you get a Proust once every few centuries).

                              There's your answer. Prosaic, perhaps, but plausible.



                              --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "EricaF" <anilesbocon01@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Wunderlampe" <thirohk@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I realize I'm probably repeating what others have said, but I get the feeling you're over thinking this.
                              >
                              > That's pretty obvious. :)

                              Very Socratic. :) (Lee Harris has an excellent discussion of Socrates you'd probably like to look up...)

                              > In fact, most of what I *do* as a Yuri blogger and industry hack is over think and comment on Yuri.
                              >
                              > Overthinking comics and cartoons is what most of fandom spends it's time doing all across the internet. :-)
                              >
                              >
                              > The reason that it isn't seen much is what Ellen mentions - moving house, moving in etc. are not what I would think of as full of dramatic potential.
                              > >
                              > > [SPOILER ALERT]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > In fact, I can think of only one love story I know that has that in it, and that's W Juliet, and then only at the very end. BTW, "W Juliet" is an excellent manga, if you're interested, though it's not Yuri. And possibly Utena, when Anthy moves in at the start, but even then it's very short.
                              > >
                              > > Back to the subject, how many series with science have anything like the humdrum realism of what working in a lab entails? Or - well, pick your example. Bottom line is that isn't very interesting. There's not that much top notch yuri out there - for the simple reason that there's not that much top notch _anything_ out there - and I'll believe someone making logistics interesting when I see it.
                              >
                              > I understand your point, and I actually disagree. Making the mundane wonderful is exactly what I look for in a writer. That may be the point, though. I'm an adult in a relationship. Humans, look to media for a reflection of self (or what we want out of life.) I do think that day to day life is the most fun and far and away more interesting than giant crises with monsters and screaming. :-)
                              >
                              > > Frankly, I'm just glad that there's Yuri that isn't of the schoolgirl "OMG, we're in love!" variety (yes, Saki, I'm looking at you...) which is great fun to heckle, but can get a trifle tiring...
                              >
                              > I'm glad for more of everything.
                              >
                              > I was just enjoying a bit of overthinking.
                              >
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              >
                              > Erica
                              >
                            • Wunderlampe
                              Thanks, but I m avoiding it. When you find perfection in a story, you don t want to risk seeing it spoiled.
                              Message 14 of 15 , Apr 7, 2010
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                                Thanks, but I'm avoiding it. When you find perfection in a story, you don't want to risk seeing it spoiled.

                                --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Shane <haruka_clone@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > This is a bit OT but if you are a fan of W Juliet you should be aware that there is a second series detailing their relationship after they graduate and their efforts to become actors, W Juliet II. This series includes them moving in together which is kind of where the first series left off IIRC. So while its not Yuri it does cover that buying a house and furniture and moving in together gap.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: Wunderlampe <thirohk@...>
                                > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 1:40:30 AM
                                > Subject: [Yuricon] Re: The Yuri Gap
                                >
                                >
                                > I realize I'm probably repeating what others have said, but I get the feeling you're over thinking this. The reason that it isn't seen much is what Ellen mentions - moving house, moving in etc. are not what I would think of as full of dramatic potential.
                                >
                                > [SPOILER ALERT]
                                >
                                > In fact, I can think of only one love story I know that has that in it, and that's W Juliet, and then only at the very end. BTW, "W Juliet" is an excellent manga, if you're interested, though it's not Yuri. And possibly Utena, when Anthy moves in at the start, but even then it's very short.
                                >
                                > Back to the subject, how many series with science have anything like the humdrum realism of what working in a lab entails? Or - well, pick your example. Bottom line is that isn't very interesting. There's not that much top notch yuri out there - for the simple reason that there's not that much top notch _anything_ out there - and I'll believe someone making logistics interesting when I see it.
                                >
                                > Frankly, I'm just glad that there's Yuri that isn't of the schoolgirl "OMG, we're in love!" variety (yes, Saki, I'm looking at you...) which is great fun to heckle, but can get a trifle tiring...
                                >
                                > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups .com, Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@ ...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > And yet - stories around the mundane are, IMHO, the very best.
                                > > In "Kitchen" by Banana Yoshimoto, the standout scene involves so really excellent kastudon. That scene totally blew me away. :-0
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Cheers,
                                > >
                                > > Erica
                                > >
                                > > Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated. "
                                > > http://www.yuricon. org
                                > > Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu. blogspot. com
                                > >
                                > > "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
                                > > The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution. blogspot. com
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ____________ _________ _________ __
                                > > > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups .com
                                > > > From: ellen@
                                > > > Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 11:31:38 -0500
                                > > > Subject: RE: [Yuricon] The Yuri Gap
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > The
                                > > > gap between 'couple' and 'living together' might well happen because the shift
                                > > > from one state to another involves a lot of logistics. And logistics
                                > > > are mundane. You have to work harder to make a story out of the mundane.
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > Ellen
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                > > > From: Yuricon@yahoogroups .com
                                > > > [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups .com] On Behalf Of EricaF
                                > > > Sent:
                                > > > Thursday, April 01, 2010 11:00 AM
                                > > > To:
                                > > > Yuricon@yahoogroups .com
                                > > > Subject: [Yuricon] The Yuri
                                > > > Gap
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > [snip]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > So I'm reading through the piles and piles of stuff I've got sitting here
                                > > > and I can't but help notice a gap.
                                > > > And yet...I can't help but notice a
                                > > > gap.
                                > > >
                                > > > The gap is that bit after "we're together as a couple" and before
                                > > > "we living together."
                                > > >
                                > > > This is the kind of story I covered in "Playing
                                > > > House" in Yuri Monogatari 4 and what "Fufu" is doing in Yuri Hime S. This
                                > > > space when two women are past building a physical relationship out of an
                                > > > emotional one and trying to translate that into real life. Moving in, getting
                                > > > furniture - dealing with bills and budgets and family and food
                                > > > and...stuff.
                                > > >
                                > > > [snip]
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                                > > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox.
                                > > http://www.windowsl ive.com/campaign /thenewbusy? ocid=PID27925: :T:WLMTAGL: ON:WL:en- US:WM_HMP: 032010_2
                                > >
                                >
                              • Erica Friedman
                                ... I will never disagree with that fact that people might have some other opinion than my own - it s a certainty in most cases. ;-) Cheers, Erica Yuricon -
                                Message 15 of 15 , Apr 7, 2010
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                                  > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                                  > From: thirohk@...
                                  > Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 08:51:48 +0000
                                  > Subject: [Yuricon] Re: The Yuri Gap
                                  >
                                  > I'm going to be very pedantic here and point out while you're disagreeing with my analysis of what is and is not typically interesting, you're not, here anyway, disagreeing that many more might see things my way - or be able to perform your way (basically, you get a Proust once every few centuries).

                                   
                                  I will never disagree with that fact that people might have some other opinion than my own - it's a certainty in most cases. ;-)
                                   
                                  Cheers,
                                   
                                  Erica
                                   
                                  Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated." http://www.yuricon.org
                                  Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                   


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