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If there would be a book about yuri, then...

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  • Grisznak
    what would you like to see inside? Just a question, I m interesting what should such book contains. cheers Grisznak
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 2, 2010
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      what would you like to see inside? Just a question, I'm interesting what should such book contains.
      cheers
      Grisznak
    • EricaF
      About? In a non-fiction sense? I d like to see an accurate history of the term, with an explanation of it s on-again off-again relationship with the Japanese
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 2, 2010
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        About? In a non-fiction sense?

        I'd like to see an accurate history of the term, with an explanation of it's on-again off-again relationship with the Japanese lesbian community. It would cover the ongoing evolution of the genre from its roots in Japanese literature, through the Aesthetic movement, the creation and appropriation of the term Yuri and the phase shifts it's gone through as a result of significant and popular series.

        It's a book I've been meaning to write, but unfortunately have other things that take precedence. :-)

        Cheers,

        Erica

        Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
        http://www.yuricon.org

        --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Grisznak <grisznakiw@...> wrote:
        >
        > what would you like to see inside? Just a question, I'm interesting what
        > should such book contains.
        > cheers
        > Grisznak
        >
      • Allison P
        Yeah, thta e be pretty neat! I d certainly read it.
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 2, 2010
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          Yeah, thta'e be pretty neat! I'd certainly read it.

          On 2/2/10, EricaF <anilesbocon01@...> wrote:
          > About? In a non-fiction sense?
          >
          > I'd like to see an accurate history of the term, with an explanation of it's
          > on-again off-again relationship with the Japanese lesbian community. It
          > would cover the ongoing evolution of the genre from its roots in Japanese
          > literature, through the Aesthetic movement, the creation and appropriation
          > of the term Yuri and the phase shifts it's gone through as a result of
          > significant and popular series.
          >
          > It's a book I've been meaning to write, but unfortunately have other things
          > that take precedence. :-)
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > Erica
          >
          > Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
          > http://www.yuricon.org
          >
          > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Grisznak <grisznakiw@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> what would you like to see inside? Just a question, I'm interesting what
          >> should such book contains.
          >> cheers
          >> Grisznak
          >>
          >
          >
          >
        • Grisznak
          I m slowly coming close to the decision of publishing such book. There will be some of my artciles and essays, about history of yuri in the world, in Poland,
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 4, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            I'm slowly coming close to the decision of publishing such book. There will be some of my artciles and essays, about history of yuri in the world, in Poland, about most important titles, specifity of shoujo-ai stories, difference from classic romances, about the authors and readers. Maybe this year I'll be able to do this. That's why I asked, I'd like to know what people might like to see in such book.

            cheers
            Grisznak

            2010/2/3 Allison P <apocalypseofjon@...>
             

            Yeah, thta'e be pretty neat! I'd certainly read it.

            On 2/2/10, EricaF <anilesbocon01@...> wrote:
            > About? In a non-fiction sense?
            >
            > I'd like to see an accurate history of the term, with an explanation of it's
            > on-again off-again relationship with the Japanese lesbian community. It
            > would cover the ongoing evolution of the genre from its roots in Japanese
            > literature, through the Aesthetic movement, the creation and appropriation
            > of the term Yuri and the phase shifts it's gone through as a result of
            > significant and popular series.
            >
            > It's a book I've been meaning to write, but unfortunately have other things
            > that take precedence. :-)
            >
            > Cheers,
            >
            > Erica
            >
            > Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
            > http://www.yuricon.org
            >
            > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Grisznak <grisznakiw@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> what would you like to see inside? Just a question, I'm interesting what
            >> should such book contains.
            >> cheers
            >> Grisznak
            >>
            >
            >
            >


          • drumweezer
            Grisznak, Not to be a sourpuss or nothing, but from my own personal experience of working on my thesis project of Yuri for two years, it has not been a walk in
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 5, 2010
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              Grisznak,

              Not to be a sourpuss or nothing, but from my own personal experience of working on my thesis project of Yuri for two years, it has not been a walk in the park. My thesis can be likened to a book. It will contain three chapters, a preface, table of contents, etc. My advisor is roughly wanting betwen 90 to 100 pages. I don't know exactly how much research you have or what you have done so far, but I can tell you that I have struggled mainly due to the lack of research. There has not been any academic research on the subject. Out of the many articles and books I have read, I have currently been able to find only one article that references Yuri in passing and it's only one sentence. In addition, since there hasn't been research done in the U.S., Canada, or England (maybe there are some articles in polish) there really isn't any empirical evidence, at least in my opinion, to concretely say that Yuri is attached to the lesbian community. Right now, we are still in the process of educated guessing or assuming because we don't have any interviews documented, except ones that Eric may have done. And if you really want that 'stamp of approval' you really have to go over to Japan and immerse yourself in the community and do interviews and that takes some serious time. We're talking at least a good 2 or 3 years at least. From my personal perspective, I think it is attached to the lesbian community, but I'm not exactly sure how or why. We know in the early 20th century that there was a link, but that link may have changed over time. Who knows? We cannot generalize or assume too much, because what we may think, may not be the case at all.

              In addition, this particular topic is highly controversial. I didn't realize how controversial Yuri was until last year when I presented one of my papers at the conference and when I had a committee member from the Asian studies department tear me apart. It was so bad that my other committee members had to stand up for me. Sexuality and Japan is a very touchy subject. I can literally say that there are academic wars going on about it and that's an entire story of itself.

              But, I do think writing a book is duable. Just don't rush. This is a subject that no one has ever focused on. You don't want to write something that you might regret later on. That's the cloud that is hovering over my head at the moment. But it's a good cloud.

              Kimberly

              --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Grisznak <grisznakiw@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'm slowly coming close to the decision of publishing such book. There will
              > be some of my artciles and essays, about history of yuri in the world, in
              > Poland, about most important titles, specifity of shoujo-ai stories,
              > difference from classic romances, about the authors and readers. Maybe this
              > year I'll be able to do this. That's why I asked, I'd like to know what
              > people might like to see in such book.
              >
              > cheers
              > Grisznak
              >
              > 2010/2/3 Allison P <apocalypseofjon@...>
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yeah, thta'e be pretty neat! I'd certainly read it.
              > >
              > > On 2/2/10, EricaF <anilesbocon01@... <anilesbocon01%40hotmail.com>>
              > > wrote:
              > > > About? In a non-fiction sense?
              > > >
              > > > I'd like to see an accurate history of the term, with an explanation of
              > > it's
              > > > on-again off-again relationship with the Japanese lesbian community. It
              > > > would cover the ongoing evolution of the genre from its roots in Japanese
              > > > literature, through the Aesthetic movement, the creation and
              > > appropriation
              > > > of the term Yuri and the phase shifts it's gone through as a result of
              > > > significant and popular series.
              > > >
              > > > It's a book I've been meaning to write, but unfortunately have other
              > > things
              > > > that take precedence. :-)
              > > >
              > > > Cheers,
              > > >
              > > > Erica
              > > >
              > > > Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
              > > > http://www.yuricon.org
              > > >
              > > > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com <Yuricon%40yahoogroups.com>, Grisznak
              > > <grisznakiw@> wrote:
              > > >>
              > > >> what would you like to see inside? Just a question, I'm interesting what
              > > >> should such book contains.
              > > >> cheers
              > > >> Grisznak
              > > >>
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Grisznak
              Kimberly, Thanks for your kind advices, I appreciate them very much. I m writing about yuri/shoujo-ai for polish manga/anime, japanese culture oriented or
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 5, 2010
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                Kimberly,
                Thanks for your kind advices, I appreciate them very much. I'm writing about yuri/shoujo-ai for polish manga/anime, japanese culture oriented or mainstream magazines, fanzines and web services since about six years and I know how fragile subject it is. More, I don't wanna to write science book, rather something more popular, that shows people what yuri is and what yuri is not. As as historian, I understand your thoughts - when I was writing my thesis project, I took a subject that no-one ever touched before in my country and had lotta work with it.
                But, returning to our main subject - academic books are for academics. I like 'em but I don't think that mass or younger reader might accept them. I'd rather like to tell my readers what yuri is, show best examples, history, cliches etc, but do not sink in academic considerations or sociological analysis. About an interviews - yep, you're right, I read a few interview with yuri/shoujo-ai authors, both in english and in polish. But I don't agree with you, when it comes to the traveling to Japan - it's necessery when you want to write a long, academic book, but for popular one - I don't think so.  
                And no, I'm not in hurry. I'm thinking about it since year, but finally, it seems that during this year I'm gonna have enough time and money to do this. If no, then I'll wait, it's not something that whole world (or at last - my country) is waiting for.
                Once again, thanks, I'm sure your remarks and observations will help me a lot.
                cheers
                Grisznak

                2010/2/5 drumweezer <drumweezer@...>
                 

                Grisznak,

                Not to be a sourpuss or nothing, but from my own personal experience of working on my thesis project of Yuri for two years, it has not been a walk in the park. My thesis can be likened to a book. It will contain three chapters, a preface, table of contents, etc. My advisor is roughly wanting betwen 90 to 100 pages. I don't know exactly how much research you have or what you have done so far, but I can tell you that I have struggled mainly due to the lack of research. There has not been any academic research on the subject. Out of the many articles and books I have read, I have currently been able to find only one article that references Yuri in passing and it's only one sentence. In addition, since there hasn't been research done in the U.S., Canada, or England (maybe there are some articles in polish) there really isn't any empirical evidence, at least in my opinion, to concretely say that Yuri is attached to the lesbian community. Right now, we are still in the process of educated guessing or assuming because we don't have any interviews documented, except ones that Eric may have done. And if you really want that 'stamp of approval' you really have to go over to Japan and immerse yourself in the community and do interviews and that takes some serious time. We're talking at least a good 2 or 3 years at least. From my personal perspective, I think it is attached to the lesbian community, but I'm not exactly sure how or why. We know in the early 20th century that there was a link, but that link may have changed over time. Who knows? We cannot generalize or assume too much, because what we may think, may not be the case at all.

                In addition, this particular topic is highly controversial. I didn't realize how controversial Yuri was until last year when I presented one of my papers at the conference and when I had a committee member from the Asian studies department tear me apart. It was so bad that my other committee members had to stand up for me. Sexuality and Japan is a very touchy subject. I can literally say that there are academic wars going on about it and that's an entire story of itself.

                But, I do think writing a book is duable. Just don't rush. This is a subject that no one has ever focused on. You don't want to write something that you might regret later on. That's the cloud that is hovering over my head at the moment. But it's a good cloud.

                Kimberly


                --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Grisznak <grisznakiw@...> wrote:
                >
                > I'm slowly coming close to the decision of publishing such book. There will
                > be some of my artciles and essays, about history of yuri in the world, in
                > Poland, about most important titles, specifity of shoujo-ai stories,
                > difference from classic romances, about the authors and readers. Maybe this
                > year I'll be able to do this. That's why I asked, I'd like to know what
                > people might like to see in such book.
                >
                > cheers
                > Grisznak
                >
                > 2010/2/3 Allison P <apocalypseofjon@...>

                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yeah, thta'e be pretty neat! I'd certainly read it.
                > >
                > > On 2/2/10, EricaF <anilesbocon01@... <anilesbocon01%40hotmail.com>>

                > > wrote:
                > > > About? In a non-fiction sense?
                > > >
                > > > I'd like to see an accurate history of the term, with an explanation of
                > > it's
                > > > on-again off-again relationship with the Japanese lesbian community. It
                > > > would cover the ongoing evolution of the genre from its roots in Japanese
                > > > literature, through the Aesthetic movement, the creation and
                > > appropriation
                > > > of the term Yuri and the phase shifts it's gone through as a result of
                > > > significant and popular series.
                > > >
                > > > It's a book I've been meaning to write, but unfortunately have other
                > > things
                > > > that take precedence. :-)
                > > >
                > > > Cheers,
                > > >
                > > > Erica
                > > >
                > > > Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
                > > > http://www.yuricon.org
                > > >
                > > > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com <Yuricon%40yahoogroups.com>, Grisznak

                > > <grisznakiw@> wrote:
                > > >>
                > > >> what would you like to see inside? Just a question, I'm interesting what
                > > >> should such book contains.
                > > >> cheers
                > > >> Grisznak
                > > >>
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                > >
                >


              • drumweezer
                Hey Griznak, I do understand and sympathize completely. I would like to point out though that there has been many books written by academics that have been
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 5, 2010
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                  Hey Griznak,

                  I do understand and sympathize completely. I would like to point out though that there has been many books written by academics that have been popular. For example, Susan Napier has written several popular books on animation and she's an academic and the book Bad Girls of Japan containing several academic essays is also quite popular (if anybody hasn't read it, it's an awesome book and quite fun to read). Although I cannot vouch for the conventions that are in Poland, I can say that from my own personal experiences with academics, I think most of them would be happy if anybody would read their work. However, you are right in that there are some texts that are highly dense and even the smartest scholars have a difficult time comprehending them.

                  As for my own work, although it is multidisciplinary, most of my work is literary analysis and most of the perspectives I'm using is queer/gender theory.

                  However, I am interested in your statement of defining what Yuri is and what Yuri is not. I'm actually quite curious to see what everyone's response would be to the questions: Is the concept of Yuri concrete? Or is it fluid? Is the concept influenced by personal perception or cultural perception? What about the animes that may be on the border?

                  Kimberly



                  And this is really a question that can be answered by anybody really.


                  --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Grisznak <grisznakiw@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Kimberly,
                  > Thanks for your kind advices, I appreciate them very much. I'm writing about
                  > yuri/shoujo-ai for polish manga/anime, japanese culture oriented or
                  > mainstream magazines, fanzines and web services since about six years and I
                  > know how fragile subject it is. More, I don't wanna to write science book,
                  > rather something more popular, that shows people what yuri is and what yuri
                  > is not. As as historian, I understand your thoughts - when I was writing my
                  > thesis project, I took a subject that no-one ever touched before in my
                  > country and had lotta work with it.
                  > But, returning to our main subject - academic books are for academics. I
                  > like 'em but I don't think that mass or younger reader might accept them.
                  > I'd rather like to tell my readers what yuri is, show best examples,
                  > history, cliches etc, but do not sink in academic considerations or
                  > sociological analysis. About an interviews - yep, you're right, I read a few
                  > interview with yuri/shoujo-ai authors, both in english and in polish. But I
                  > don't agree with you, when it comes to the traveling to Japan - it's
                  > necessery when you want to write a long, academic book, but for popular one
                  > - I don't think so.
                  > And no, I'm not in hurry. I'm thinking about it since year, but finally, it
                  > seems that during this year I'm gonna have enough time and money to do this.
                  > If no, then I'll wait, it's not something that whole world (or at last - my
                  > country) is waiting for.
                  > Once again, thanks, I'm sure your remarks and observations will help me a
                  > lot.
                  > cheers
                  > Grisznak
                  >
                  > 2010/2/5 drumweezer <drumweezer@...>
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Grisznak,
                  > >
                  > > Not to be a sourpuss or nothing, but from my own personal experience of
                  > > working on my thesis project of Yuri for two years, it has not been a walk
                  > > in the park. My thesis can be likened to a book. It will contain three
                  > > chapters, a preface, table of contents, etc. My advisor is roughly wanting
                  > > betwen 90 to 100 pages. I don't know exactly how much research you have or
                  > > what you have done so far, but I can tell you that I have struggled mainly
                  > > due to the lack of research. There has not been any academic research on the
                  > > subject. Out of the many articles and books I have read, I have currently
                  > > been able to find only one article that references Yuri in passing and it's
                  > > only one sentence. In addition, since there hasn't been research done in the
                  > > U.S., Canada, or England (maybe there are some articles in polish) there
                  > > really isn't any empirical evidence, at least in my opinion, to concretely
                  > > say that Yuri is attached to the lesbian community. Right now, we are still
                  > > in the process of educated guessing or assuming because we don't have any
                  > > interviews documented, except ones that Eric may have done. And if you
                  > > really want that 'stamp of approval' you really have to go over to Japan and
                  > > immerse yourself in the community and do interviews and that takes some
                  > > serious time. We're talking at least a good 2 or 3 years at least. From my
                  > > personal perspective, I think it is attached to the lesbian community, but
                  > > I'm not exactly sure how or why. We know in the early 20th century that
                  > > there was a link, but that link may have changed over time. Who knows? We
                  > > cannot generalize or assume too much, because what we may think, may not be
                  > > the case at all.
                  > >
                  > > In addition, this particular topic is highly controversial. I didn't
                  > > realize how controversial Yuri was until last year when I presented one of
                  > > my papers at the conference and when I had a committee member from the Asian
                  > > studies department tear me apart. It was so bad that my other committee
                  > > members had to stand up for me. Sexuality and Japan is a very touchy
                  > > subject. I can literally say that there are academic wars going on about it
                  > > and that's an entire story of itself.
                  > >
                  > > But, I do think writing a book is duable. Just don't rush. This is a
                  > > subject that no one has ever focused on. You don't want to write something
                  > > that you might regret later on. That's the cloud that is hovering over my
                  > > head at the moment. But it's a good cloud.
                  > >
                  > > Kimberly
                  > >
                  > > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com <Yuricon%40yahoogroups.com>, Grisznak
                  > > <grisznakiw@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I'm slowly coming close to the decision of publishing such book. There
                  > > will
                  > > > be some of my artciles and essays, about history of yuri in the world, in
                  > > > Poland, about most important titles, specifity of shoujo-ai stories,
                  > > > difference from classic romances, about the authors and readers. Maybe
                  > > this
                  > > > year I'll be able to do this. That's why I asked, I'd like to know what
                  > > > people might like to see in such book.
                  > > >
                  > > > cheers
                  > > > Grisznak
                  > > >
                  > > > 2010/2/3 Allison P <apocalypseofjon@>
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Yeah, thta'e be pretty neat! I'd certainly read it.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > On 2/2/10, EricaF <anilesbocon01@ <anilesbocon01%40hotmail.com>>
                  > >
                  > > > > wrote:
                  > > > > > About? In a non-fiction sense?
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > I'd like to see an accurate history of the term, with an explanation
                  > > of
                  > > > > it's
                  > > > > > on-again off-again relationship with the Japanese lesbian community.
                  > > It
                  > > > > > would cover the ongoing evolution of the genre from its roots in
                  > > Japanese
                  > > > > > literature, through the Aesthetic movement, the creation and
                  > > > > appropriation
                  > > > > > of the term Yuri and the phase shifts it's gone through as a result
                  > > of
                  > > > > > significant and popular series.
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > It's a book I've been meaning to write, but unfortunately have other
                  > > > > things
                  > > > > > that take precedence. :-)
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Cheers,
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Erica
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
                  > > > > > http://www.yuricon.org
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com <Yuricon%40yahoogroups.com> <Yuricon%
                  > > 40yahoogroups.com>, Grisznak
                  > >
                  > > > > <grisznakiw@> wrote:
                  > > > > >>
                  > > > > >> what would you like to see inside? Just a question, I'm interesting
                  > > what
                  > > > > >> should such book contains.
                  > > > > >> cheers
                  > > > > >> Grisznak
                  > > > > >>
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
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