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RE: [Yuricon] Re: OT: Lesbos island against the lesbians

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  • Ellen Kuhfeld
    My mother was raised Catholic, then became Baptist. She tried to enforce the no-nos of both religions. It seems to me that if you put Turks, Slavs, and Greeks
    Message 1 of 11 , May 4 8:43 AM
      Message
      My mother was raised Catholic, then became Baptist. She tried to enforce the no-nos of both religions. It seems to me that if you put Turks, Slavs, and Greeks into a blender -- you'll have a LOT of no-nos to play with.
       
      Ellen Rose
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Johann Chua
      Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2008 5:30 AM
      To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Yuricon] Re: OT: Lesbos island against the lesbians

      On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 6:22 PM, crimsonlotus20
      <crimsonlotus@ hotmail.co. uk> wrote:
      > Maybe this has something to do with the fact that modern Greeks have
      > nothing to do with Ancient Greeks. Whatever happened, the lineage of
      > Aristotle, Pericles and Hypatia is dead. Maybe contemporary Greek
      > homophobia has something to do with the fact that modern Greeks are
      > the descendants of Hellenised Turks and Slavs. Most comprehensive
      > historical, archaeological and genetic research has concluded that the
      > Ancient Greeks died out in the 7th and 8th centuries AD with the
      > Slavic invasions.

      Genetic factor for homophobia?

      Isn't the Greek Orthodox Church a more likely suspect?

    • You need to ask nicely.
      The joys of nationalism, making sure that patriotism doesn t get bogged down by facts. Like a few years ago when Japan received interational protest because a
      Message 2 of 11 , May 4 11:31 AM
        The joys of nationalism, making sure that patriotism doesn't get
        bogged down by facts.

        Like a few years ago when Japan received interational protest
        because a release of history books in Japan negelected to mention
        Japan's history during WW2. (I won't go into details because this is
        a family list, but I'm sure their Nazi allies were impressed with
        their actions.)

        Or how here in the States I would guess 75%+ don't know that we too
        had our concentration camps here in the States where Japaneese
        Americans were sent to the camps for the crime of being Japaneese
        Americans.

        If anything the ability to ignore truths one is not comfortable with
        is one of the true commonalities shared by all people of the world.

        On a personal note it's assinine in my opinion. Psappho's legacy
        should be up there with the Greek greats like Socrates and Plato
        (who called her the 7th muse), but instead her legacy has been
        marginalized in order to focus on the fact she liked girls.

        Dark Wyldchilde
      • crimsonlotus20
        ... That s actually quite a crucial point. Since most of Sappho s canon is lost, we cannot be entirely certain of her contribution, but contemporaries thought
        Message 3 of 11 , May 4 7:14 PM
          > On a personal note it's assinine in my opinion. Psappho's legacy
          > should be up there with the Greek greats like Socrates and Plato
          > (who called her the 7th muse), but instead her legacy has been
          > marginalized in order to focus on the fact she liked girls.
          >
          > Dark Wyldchilde
          >

          That's actually quite a crucial point. Since most of Sappho's canon is
          lost, we cannot be entirely certain of her contribution, but
          contemporaries thought highly of her and she was still extremely
          influential in Roman times, when, I believe, Horace refers to her as a
          major inspiration.

          The fact that she wrote love poems to girls is, in my view, also
          easily co-opted. Some have speculated that in relatively emancipated
          city-states like Sparta, a female parallel to male pederasty was
          possible. More plausibly, given the misogyny of most Classical Greek
          society (women were much less emancipated than Roman or, notably,
          Etruscan women), Sappho's attraction to her own biological gender
          simply did not garner a reaction amongst conservative experts, yet the
          fact Plato drew attention to her may be significant. Plato, after all,
          suggested that a state that did not cultivate the political and social
          functions of its female population was like an athlete who only trains
          his right arm.

          Regards,
          MdG
        • Wyld Childe
          Then there is the proof of her being with a man which survived when her poems were put to the torch? Needless to say I would want independent verification
          Message 4 of 11 , May 5 9:11 AM
            Then there is the "proof" of her being with a man
            which survived when her poems were put to the torch?
            Needless to say I would want independent verification
            beyond the words of someone who's in court to try to
            dismantle the legacy of a woman who literally defined
            female same-sex loving.

            What dismays me the most is that this is just an entry
            in a far longer list of artistic and historical
            treasures destroyed in the name of "morality".

            I'm going to fight to keep off the soapbox here and
            rather end on a more lingusitic note.

            Here in the states there are people who call
            themselves "African Americans" and have never set foot
            on the Dark Continent, and while Latin America does
            have the word "America" in it they are a world away
            from life here in the States.

            Much like when Spike Lee sued the Spike tv channel or
            Donald Trump tried to copyright "You're Fired." some
            people need to get over themselves.

            DW

            --- crimsonlotus20 <crimsonlotus@...> wrote:

            >
            > > On a personal note it's assinine in my opinion.
            > Psappho's legacy
            > > should be up there with the Greek greats like
            > Socrates and Plato
            > > (who called her the 7th muse), but instead her
            > legacy has been
            > > marginalized in order to focus on the fact she
            > liked girls.
            > >
            > > Dark Wyldchilde
            > >
            >
            > That's actually quite a crucial point. Since most of
            > Sappho's canon is
            > lost, we cannot be entirely certain of her
            > contribution, but
            > contemporaries thought highly of her and she was
            > still extremely
            > influential in Roman times, when, I believe, Horace
            > refers to her as a
            > major inspiration.
            >
            > The fact that she wrote love poems to girls is, in
            > my view, also
            > easily co-opted. Some have speculated that in
            > relatively emancipated
            > city-states like Sparta, a female parallel to male
            > pederasty was
            > possible. More plausibly, given the misogyny of most
            > Classical Greek
            > society (women were much less emancipated than Roman
            > or, notably,
            > Etruscan women), Sappho's attraction to her own
            > biological gender
            > simply did not garner a reaction amongst
            > conservative experts, yet the
            > fact Plato drew attention to her may be significant.
            > Plato, after all,
            > suggested that a state that did not cultivate the
            > political and social
            > functions of its female population was like an
            > athlete who only trains
            > his right arm.
            >
            > Regards,
            > MdG
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >



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