Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Yuri and Lezu

Expand Messages
  • kyouka_mitzrugi
    In the yuri community in Japan, the topic Difference between yuri and Lezu often goes up. A lot of fans of Japan are recognized that yuri is a creation of
    Message 1 of 13 , Mar 2, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      In the yuri community in Japan, the topic "Difference between yuri and
      Lezu" often goes up.
      A lot of fans of Japan are recognized that yuri is a creation of "Two
      dimensions". The lezu is recognized the one, that is, eroticism on the
      other hand.
      Yuri in present Japan is connected with "S". Yuri is sacred, and
      beautiful.
      On the other hand, lezu is realistic, fresh, and erotic it.
      It is an opinion from which this is seen well in the fan of Japan.
      Lezu arose as a word that often showed discrimination to the lesbian
      in Japan. The lesbian doesn't at least have the face that may be
      called a lezu.
      However, the fan of Japan relates the word lezu to realism.
      Discriminatory consideration to the lesbian of the reality of the fan
      of Japan might be here.
      I am holding such an anxiety.

      Kyouka
    • atheniag
      ... Hello Kyouka - There is no discrimination here of any kind - but especially not against lesbians. The management of Yuricon, Okazu and this list is a
      Message 2 of 13 , Mar 2, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "kyouka_mitzrugi" <kyouka_mitz@...> wrote:
        >
        > In the yuri community in Japan, the topic "Difference between yuri and
        > Lezu" often goes up.
        > A lot of fans of Japan are recognized that yuri is a creation of "Two
        > dimensions". The lezu is recognized the one, that is, eroticism on the
        > other hand.
        > Yuri in present Japan is connected with "S". Yuri is sacred, and
        > beautiful.
        > On the other hand, lezu is realistic, fresh, and erotic it.
        > It is an opinion from which this is seen well in the fan of Japan.
        > Lezu arose as a word that often showed discrimination to the lesbian
        > in Japan. The lesbian doesn't at least have the face that may be
        > called a lezu.
        > However, the fan of Japan relates the word lezu to realism.
        > Discriminatory consideration to the lesbian of the reality of the fan
        > of Japan might be here.
        > I am holding such an anxiety.
        >
        > Kyouka

        Hello Kyouka -

        There is no discrimination here of any kind - but especially not
        against lesbians. The management of Yuricon, Okazu and this list is a
        lesbian - I created this group so that we could have a space where
        lesbian perspective on Yuri is understood, and is paramount.

        We also think "Yuri" is beautiful.

        There is a similar problem with terms in English, with "lesbian" being
        used by women who desire other women, and differnetly by the
        pornography industry, and words like "lez" "les" "lesbo" being given
        very negative meanings.

        Many fans here understand "Yuri" to be separate, thing from "S,"
        "bian" and parallel in some ways to "lez."

        Language is hard, no matter what you speak - there are no definitive
        meanings. We try to understand all the words we use, and understand
        how they change with time and usage.

        But most of all, we appreciate Yuri.

        Cheers,

        Erica

        ALC Publishing - where the girl always gets the girl
        http://www.anilesbocon.org/alc.html
      • kyouka_mitzrugi
        It is a low degree of their senses of entitlement that I thinks of the fan of Yuri of Japan because I see. I worry whether they discriminate unconsciously.
        Message 3 of 13 , Mar 3, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          It is a low degree of their senses of entitlement that I thinks of the
          fan of Yuri of Japan
          because I see.
          I worry whether they discriminate unconsciously.
          They think about Yuri and Lez by the distinction like the story of
          fictitious and the story
          etc. of the reality.
          (The fan of Japan says the problem of "Two dimensions" and "Three
          dimensions" this. )
          However, it is said that they are Lez and when the lesbian of the
          reality is imagined,
          eroticism follows without fail.
          And, when they imagine it like that, slight disgust is shown.
          Word Lez is discriminatory also by Japan.
          They are not extremely conscious.
          This is that I worry.


          Kyouka
        • Erica Friedman
          ... より快適にするなら、日本語を使用してください。 躊躇しないでください。 ... 難問題です。
          Message 4 of 13 , Mar 3, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
            > From: kyouka_mitz@...
            > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 01:18:38 +0000
            > Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu

            より快適にするなら、日本語を使用してください。 躊躇しないでください。

            >
            > It is a low degree of their senses of entitlement that I thinks of the
            > fan of Yuri of Japan
            > because I see.
            > I worry whether they discriminate unconsciously.

            難問題です。

            確かに、違いを理解しているファンがいます。しかし、差別することができないより多くのファンがいます。
            百合とレスの異なった意味であり、何人かのファン(とレスビアン)にとって、これは非常に重要です。
            本当の状況は多くの人々が意味の違いを見ることができないということです。


            > They think about Yuri and Lez by the distinction like the story of
            > fictitious and the story
            > etc. of the reality.
            > (The fan of Japan says the problem of "Two dimensions" and "Three
            > dimensions" this. )
            > However, it is said that they are Lez and when the lesbian of the
            > reality is imagined,
            > eroticism follows without fail.

            The same is true here. Many people cannot tell the difference between lesbian culture and
            pornography "lesbian."


            > And, when they imagine it like that, slight disgust is shown.

            同意されます。

            > Word Lez is discriminatory also by Japan.
            > They are not extremely conscious.
            > This is that I worry.
            >


            I cannot worry about such things. I am busy enjoying Yuri manga. :-)

            >Cheers,

            Erica

            Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
            http://www.yuricon.org
            Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com

            "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
            The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com
            _________________________________________________________________
            Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power.
            http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
          • Elwin Coldiron
            Is there anyone out there that knows how to translate kanji? http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
            Message 5 of 13 , Mar 3, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Is there anyone out there that knows how to translate kanji?
               
              Blaine

              "When I hear of Schrödinger's cat, I reach for my pistol."
              Stephen W. Hawking 
               

              > To: yuricon@yahoogroups.com
              > From: alecto_fury@...
              > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 21:20:48 -0500
              > Subject: RE: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu
              >
              >
              > > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
              > > From: kyouka_mitz@...
              > > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 01:18:38 +0000
              > > Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu
              >
              > より快適にするなら、日本語を使用してください。 躊躇しないでください。
              >
              > >
              > > It is a low degree of their senses of entitlement that I thinks of the
              > > fan of Yuri of Japan
              > > because I see.
              > > I worry whether they discriminate unconsciously.
              >
              > 難問題です。
              >
              > 確かに、違いを理解しているファンがいます。しかし、差別することができないより多くのファンがいます。
              > 百合とレスの異なった意味であり、何人かのファン(とレスビアン)にとって、これは非常に重要です。
              > 本当の状況は多くの人々が意味の違いを見ることができないということです。
              >
              >
              > > They think about Yuri and Lez by the distinction like the story of
              > > fictitious and the story
              > > etc. of the reality.
              > > (The fan of Japan says the problem of "Two dimensions" and "Three
              > > dimensions" this. )
              > > However, it is said that they are Lez and when the lesbian of the
              > > reality is imagined,
              > > eroticism follows without fail.
              >
              > The same is true here. Many people cannot tell the difference between lesbian culture and
              > pornography "lesbian."
              >
              >
              > > And, when they imagine it like that, slight disgust is shown.
              >
              > 同意されます。
              >
              > > Word Lez is discriminatory also by Japan.
              > > They are not extremely conscious.
              > > This is that I worry.
              > >
              >
              >
              > I cannot worry about such things. I am busy enjoying Yuri manga. :-)
              >
              > >Cheers,
              >
              > Erica
              >
              > Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
              > http://www.yuricon.org
              > Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com
              >
              > "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
              > The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com
              > _________________________________________________________________
              > Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power.
              > http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yuricon/
              >
              > <*> Your email settings:
              > Individual Email | Traditional
              >
              > <*> To change settings online go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Yuricon/join
              > (Yahoo! ID required)
              >
              > <*> To change settings via email:
              > mailto:Yuricon-digest@yahoogroups.com
              > mailto:Yuricon-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > Yuricon-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >



              Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. Play now!
            • Erica Friedman
              To: yuricon@yahoogroups.com From: bigkwell@hotmail.com Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:44:58 -0800 Subject: RE: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu ... I use this site:
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 3, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                To: yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                From: bigkwell@...
                Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:44:58 -0800
                Subject: RE: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu


                > Is there anyone out there that knows how to translate kanji?

                I use this site: http://www.excite.co.jp/world/english/

                Cheers,

                Erica

                Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
                http://www.yuricon.org
                Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com

                "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
                The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com

                _________________________________________________________________
                Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
                http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008
              • Adam Jones
                On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:44:58 -0800, Elwin Coldiron ... For web-based stuff there s a very handy Firefox extension called Moji (http://moji.mozdev.org/ ) which
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 3, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:44:58 -0800, Elwin Coldiron
                  <bigkwell@...> wrote:

                  > Is there anyone out there that knows how to translate kanji?

                  For web-based stuff there's a very handy Firefox extension called Moji
                  (http://moji.mozdev.org/ ) which will let you highlight characters or
                  words and look them up in the sidebar. Definitely a useful tool.
                  --
                  Adam Jones (adam@...)(http://www.yggdrasl.demon.co.uk/)
                  .oO("now that Have your attention" )
                  PGP public key: http://www.yggdrasl.demon.co.uk/pubkey.asc
                • Jamie Wells
                  What about the best way to translate kanji that a person cannot copy and paste (such as from raw manga). :/ Is it just a memorization thing? Because that
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 4, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    What about the best way to translate kanji that a person cannot copy and paste (such as from raw manga).  :/   Is it just a memorization thing?  Because that would seriously suck.

                    -Vexed Fusion

                    Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...> wrote:


                    To: yuricon@yahoogroups .com
                    From: bigkwell@hotmail. com
                    Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 18:44:58 -0800
                    Subject: RE: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu

                    > Is there anyone out there that knows how to translate kanji?

                    I use this site: http://www.excite. co.jp/world/ english/

                    Cheers,

                    Erica

                    Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated. "
                    http://www.yuricon. org
                    Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu. blogspot. com

                    "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldsha king.net
                    The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution. blogspot. com

                    ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                    Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.
                    http://www.windowsl ive.com/share. html?ocid= TXT_TAGHM_ Wave2_sharelife_ 012008


                    Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                  • Erica Friedman
                    ... From: tigrisataica@yahoo.com Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:50:45 -0800 Subject: RE: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu ... There are kanji dictionaries available in
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 4, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                      From: tigrisataica@...
                      Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:50:45 -0800
                      Subject: RE: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu



                      > What about the best way to translate kanji that a person cannot copy and paste (such as from raw manga). :/ Is it just a memorization thing? Because that would seriously suck.

                      There are kanji dictionaries available in print and as electronic translation tools. You will need to learn at least a little bit to use them - how to count strokes, how to identify radicals.
                      This is not terribly hard, just a little bit of time and some effort. Practice helps you become more familiar with the characters. Online, I use Jim Breem's
                      multi-radical kanji identifcation and translation tool, and I use the NTSC's Kanji dictionary in print. But you'll *still* need to understand counting stroke and identifying radicals.

                      If you're reading manga, it also helps to memorize the hiragana and katakana syllabaries, so you can use them to help you find words. Not every character you see is kanji.

                      Don't shirk from putting the time and effort into it, because it seems overwhelming. Take small steps and practice a little every day and in no time, you'll be reading at least basic stuff.

                      Cheers,

                      Erica

                      Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
                      http://www.yuricon.org
                      Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com

                      "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
                      The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com






                      _________________________________________________________________
                      Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give.
                      http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
                    • Jamie Wells
                      Strokes! I can do that! I m taking japanese at my university. But we re still pretty much dealing with hiragana and katakana (though we have learned I d say
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 4, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Strokes!  I can do that!

                        I'm taking japanese at my university.  But we're still pretty much dealing with hiragana and katakana (though we have learned I'd say about 80-90 kanji).  But I can most certainly read everything other than kanji.  ;)

                        I just never knew the system (and couldn't remember to ask my sensei) to figuring out how to look up kanji.

                        So I thank you many times over!

                        -Vexed Fusion

                        Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...> wrote:


                        > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups .com
                        From: tigrisataica@ yahoo.com
                        Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 06:50:45 -0800
                        Subject: RE: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu

                        > What about the best way to translate kanji that a person cannot copy and paste (such as from raw manga). :/ Is it just a memorization thing? Because that would seriously suck.

                        There are kanji dictionaries available in print and as electronic translation tools. You will need to learn at least a little bit to use them - how to count strokes, how to identify radicals.
                        This is not terribly hard, just a little bit of time and some effort. Practice helps you become more familiar with the characters. Online, I use Jim Breem's
                        multi-radical kanji identifcation and translation tool, and I use the NTSC's Kanji dictionary in print. But you'll *still* need to understand counting stroke and identifying radicals.

                        If you're reading manga, it also helps to memorize the hiragana and katakana syllabaries, so you can use them to help you find words. Not every character you see is kanji.

                        Don't shirk from putting the time and effort into it, because it seems overwhelming. Take small steps and practice a little every day and in no time, you'll be reading at least basic stuff.

                        Cheers,

                        Erica

                        Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated. "
                        http://www.yuricon. org
                        Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu. blogspot. com

                        "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldsha king.net
                        The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution. blogspot. com

                        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                        Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.�You IM, we give.
                        http://im.live. com/Messenger/ IM/Home/? source=text_ hotmail_join


                        Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

                      • kyouka
                        それでは日本語で失礼します。 日本のSNSのコミュニティでしばしば百合とレズの違いは、 という話題が出ます。
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 7, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          
                          それでは日本語で失礼します。
                          日本のSNSのコミュニティでしばしば百合とレズの違いは、
                          という話題が出ます。
                           
                          大体の人は百合は創作でレズは現実、またはレズはエロ、と答えます。
                          しかしレズという言葉は同性愛者の間では嫌われている。
                          侮蔑を含んでいるように思われる。
                          その侮蔑的な言葉が現実の同性愛を示すことに私は違和感を覚えます。
                           
                          しかし、一番注目すべきは日本の百合ファンにこの問題に対する
                          問題意識がないことです。
                          彼らのセクシャルマイノリティの実際と創作の百合の間には大きな溝があります。
                           
                          もう一つ問題がおこったのは、私が百合においては他のオタク文化と比べ
                          リアリズムに依拠する割合が高いという持論を展開したときです。
                          ある一人物がそれに対して創作の百合にリアリズムの話を持ってくるなと激怒しました。
                          しかし、日本の同人誌を見るとよく分かりますが
                          日本の百合文化はエスという(サッフィズムではなく)現実に依拠した文化です。
                           
                          とにかく彼らは、創作の百合と現実のサッフィズムを別のものと思っている人が多い。
                          そして問題意識がない。
                           
                          日本においてはこういった保守的なファンが、特に男性の間で多いように思います。
                           
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 11:20 AM
                          Subject: RE: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu


                          > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups .com
                          > From: kyouka_mitz@ ybb.ne.jp
                          > Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 01:18:38 +0000
                          > Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu

                          より快適にするなら、日本語を使用してください。 躊躇しないでください。

                          >
                          > It is a low degree of their senses of entitlement that I thinks of the
                          > fan of Yuri of Japan
                          > because I see.
                          > I worry whether they discriminate unconsciously.

                          難問題です。

                          確かに、違いを理解しているファンがいます。しかし、差別することができないより多くのファンがいます。
                          百合とレスの異なった意味であり、何人かのファン(とレスビアン)にとって、これは非常に重要です。
                          本当の状況は多くの人々が意味の違いを見ることができないということです。


                          > They think about Yuri and Lez by the distinction like the story of
                          > fictitious and the story
                          > etc. of the reality.
                          > (The fan of Japan says the problem of "Two dimensions" and "Three
                          > dimensions" this. )
                          > However, it is said that they are Lez and when the lesbian of the
                          > reality is imagined,
                          > eroticism follows without fail.

                          The same is true here. Many people cannot tell the difference between lesbian culture and
                          pornography "lesbian."


                          > And, when they imagine it like that, slight disgust is shown.

                          同意されます。

                          > Word Lez is discriminatory also by Japan.
                          > They are not extremely conscious.
                          > This is that I worry.
                          >


                          I cannot worry about such things. I am busy enjoying Yuri manga. :-)

                          >Cheers,

                          Erica

                          Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated. "
                          http://www.yuricon. org
                          Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu. blogspot. com

                          "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldsha king.net
                          The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution. blogspot. com
                          ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                          Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power.
                          http://club. live.com/ star_shuffle. aspx?icid= starshuffle_ wlmailtextlink_ jan

                        • Shia
                          So, why does yahoo mess up Japanese text when you select this message is in: Japanese below?.. Well, nevermind. lol
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 8, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            So, why does yahoo mess up Japanese text when you select "this message
                            is in: Japanese" below?.. Well, nevermind. lol

                            僕は日本語にはまだまだだめなんですけど、あなたさんのメッセージを理解がで
                            きましたと思います。 
                            僕もそれが困ることと思いますけど、あれら(オタクの男性たち)に何が言いた
                            いの、何がした? 特に萌オタクが自分の小さな世界だけに暮らしてる気がする。
                            多分あれらが変りがしたくないと思います。どうしようもないことかも知れない
                            でしょう。
                            ・・と言うことで、このメーリングリストの皆さん百合が好きで、「創作」の百
                            合っ子もレズと思ってます(憧れの愛じゃないなら)。
                            果てに、「馬鹿がどこでもある」という台詞がドイツ語にあって。シチュエー
                            ションを似ますと感じます。

                            I hope you can understand what I wanted to say. orz
                          • Erica Friedman
                            ... From: kyouka_mitz@ybb.ne.jp Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:27:36 +0900 Subject: Re: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu  それでは日本語で失礼します。
                            Message 13 of 13 , Mar 27, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                              From: kyouka_mitz@...
                              Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 10:27:36 +0900
                              Subject: Re: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri and Lezu


                              > それでは日本語で失礼します。


                              大丈夫デス。

                              遅く返答して、すみません。


                              > 日本のSNSのコミュニティでしばしば百合とレズの違いは、
                              > という話題が出ます。

                              それはまさにここで同じです。

                              私たちは、百合を考えると言い表します、他の人々の考えを心配しません。 ^_^


                              Cheers,

                              Erica

                              Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
                              http://www.yuricon.org
                              Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com

                              "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
                              The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com



                              _________________________________________________________________
                              In a rush? Get real-time answers with Windows Live Messenger.
                              http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_realtime_042008
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.