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Yuri in the most unlikely place this season

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  • Blah Blahn
    You may know me from the mailing list, but chances are you don t, because I lurk and only tend to reply to Marimite posts. But, I just couldn t resist when I
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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      You may know me from the mailing list, but chances are you don't, because I lurk and only tend to reply to Marimite posts. But, I just couldn't resist when I saw the first out (I wouldn't say proud) lesbian sighting this season! And from what anime? The seemingly-completely-het, cheeky Myself; Yourself! But, the biggest surprise is, she's not there for the LFB/G effect, but she actually plays a role in the plot, and there's no Ewww reaction to her by other straight characters.
    • atheniag
      ... because I ... resist ... Myself; ... Ewww ... What s her name? (I m updating The List this week.) Cheers, Erica
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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        --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Blah Blahn" <Blarghmania@...> wrote:
        >
        > You may know me from the mailing list, but chances are you don't,
        because I
        > lurk and only tend to reply to Marimite posts. But, I just couldn't
        resist
        > when I saw the first out (I wouldn't say proud) lesbian sighting this
        > season! And from what anime? The seemingly-completely-het, cheeky
        Myself;
        > Yourself! But, the biggest surprise is, she's not there for the LFB/G
        > effect, but she actually plays a role in the plot, and there's no
        Ewww
        > reaction to her by other straight characters.
        >

        What's her name? (I'm updating "The List" this week.)

        Cheers,

        Erica
      • crimsonlotus20
        Don t forget Ritsuko Akagi from NGE! (Controversial, I know, but Maya s sitting there all alone). Regards, MdG ... couldn t ... this ... LFB/G
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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          Don't forget Ritsuko Akagi from NGE! (Controversial, I know, but
          Maya's sitting there all alone).

          Regards,
          MdG

          --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "atheniag" <anilesbocon01@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Blah Blahn" <Blarghmania@> wrote:
          > >
          > > You may know me from the mailing list, but chances are you don't,
          > because I
          > > lurk and only tend to reply to Marimite posts. But, I just
          couldn't
          > resist
          > > when I saw the first out (I wouldn't say proud) lesbian sighting
          this
          > > season! And from what anime? The seemingly-completely-het, cheeky
          > Myself;
          > > Yourself! But, the biggest surprise is, she's not there for the
          LFB/G
          > > effect, but she actually plays a role in the plot, and there's no
          > Ewww
          > > reaction to her by other straight characters.
          > >
          >
          > What's her name? (I'm updating "The List" this week.)
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          > Erica
          >
        • gee pal
          Is the character you re talking about in all the episodes or the recent one that just came out (eps 11)? And is her display of shoujo-aish shown on a specific
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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            Is the character you're talking about in all the
            episodes or the recent one that just came out (eps
            11)? And is her display of shoujo-aish shown on a
            specific episode or do I have to watch all of them?
            I watched the first 2 eps and didnt get anything so I
            stopped.

            Thanks for any response.

            --- Blah Blahn <Blarghmania@...> wrote:

            > You may know me from the mailing list, but chances
            > are you don't, because I
            > lurk and only tend to reply to Marimite posts. But,
            > I just couldn't resist
            > when I saw the first out (I wouldn't say proud)
            > lesbian sighting this
            > season! And from what anime? The
            > seemingly-completely-het, cheeky Myself;
            > Yourself! But, the biggest surprise is, she's not
            > there for the LFB/G
            > effect, but she actually plays a role in the plot,
            > and there's no Ewww
            > reaction to her by other straight characters.
            >



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          • Erica Friedman
            ... Maya s definitely on the list. By virtue of Ritsuko s wanting to sleep with Gendo...no. I find it interesting though, how many people request the addition
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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              > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
              > From: crimsonlotus@...
              > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:28:18 +0000
              > Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri in the most unlikely place this season
              >
              > Don't forget Ritsuko Akagi from NGE! (Controversial, I know, but
              > Maya's sitting there all alone).
               
              Maya's definitely on the list. By virtue of Ritsuko's  wanting to sleep with Gendo...no.
               
              I find it interesting though, how many people request the addition of the *object* of a lesbian's desire on "The List" regardless if that character shows the slightest interest  - or more often, not. :-) As if we simply can't stand the idea that the character, whose role it is to pine away from the side, should just do that.


              Cheers,

              Erica

              Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
              http://www.yuricon.org
              Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com

              "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
              The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com






              The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. Get it now!
            • sarcastic_weasel
              ... Hoshino Asami. And she s a bit of a twisted one, at that. It s hard to tell if she s just got an akogarete-crush thing that mixes with childhood trauma to
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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                --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "atheniag" <anilesbocon01@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Blah Blahn" <Blarghmania@> wrote:
                > >
                > > You may know me from the mailing list, but chances are you don't,
                > because I
                > > lurk and only tend to reply to Marimite posts. But, I just couldn't
                > resist
                > > when I saw the first out (I wouldn't say proud) lesbian sighting this
                > > season! And from what anime? The seemingly-completely-het, cheeky
                > Myself;
                > > Yourself! But, the biggest surprise is, she's not there for the LFB/G
                > > effect, but she actually plays a role in the plot, and there's no
                > Ewww
                > > reaction to her by other straight characters.
                > >
                >
                > What's her name? (I'm updating "The List" this week.)

                Hoshino Asami.

                And she's a bit of a twisted one, at that. It's hard to tell if she's
                just got an akogarete-crush thing that mixes with childhood trauma to
                become some creepy obsessive thing, or if it's something more, because
                my gaydar is so out-of-it, it still runs on vacuum tubes.

                For a show that started out pretty bland, M;Y isn't not too bad, if
                you skip some of the episodes in the middle. It's more like, "How many
                childhood traumas can we combine in one show, and still have the
                characters interact in a semi-functional way?"

                Servus,
                -sw.
              • crimsonlotus20
                ... I understand and, generally, agree with your reasoning. To play Devil s Advocate, however, if the criterion for inclusion in the list is harbouring no
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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                  > Maya's definitely on the list. By virtue of Ritsuko's wanting to
                  >sleep with Gendo...no.

                  I understand and, generally, agree with your reasoning. To play
                  Devil's Advocate, however, if the criterion for inclusion in the list
                  is harbouring no desire for men whatsoever, that may be hard to
                  substantiate in a number of cases. Conversely and - I imagine as you
                  intended it to be - if the only plot relevant, canon and certifiable
                  relationships/desires are heterosexual, then clearly the character
                  cannot be on the list, no matter what the subtext is.

                  Interestingly, though, I believe in the End of Evangelion it is made
                  reasonably explicit that Ritsuko reciprocates Maya's feelings. Under
                  those circumstances, does her infatuation/dependence on Gendo
                  disqualify her? Given the pervasive nature of the relationship and
                  the morbidity associated with it (especially cf. Ritsuko's mother), I
                  would, in Erica's position say 'yes', that does not make her an
                  especially emblematic member of the list.

                  Nevertheless, there is something to be said about her 'soul' in EoE
                  seeking out Maya (then of course, there is the question, which I am
                  still ambiguous on, of whether the apparitions in EoE are actually
                  the people they represent). Perhaps, in extremis, she decides - quite
                  wisely - that Gendo is not what she wanted all along.

                  Regards,
                  MdG

                  --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com> From: crimsonlotus@...> Date: Wed,
                  12 Dec 2007 14:28:18 +0000> Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri in the most
                  unlikely place this season> > Don't forget Ritsuko Akagi from NGE!
                  (Controversial, I know, but > Maya's sitting there all alone).
                  >
                  > Maya's definitely on the list. By virtue of Ritsuko's wanting to
                  sleep with Gendo...no.
                  >
                  > I find it interesting though, how many people request the addition
                  of the *object* of a lesbian's desire on "The List" regardless if
                  that character shows the slightest interest - or more often, not. :-
                  ) As if we simply can't stand the idea that the character, whose role
                  it is to pine away from the side, should just do that.
                  > Cheers,EricaYuricon - "For real women who like their
                  women...animated."http://www.yuricon.orgHungry for Yuri? Have some
                  Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com"World Shaking" Fanfic -
                  http://www.worldshaking.netThe Fanfic Revolution -
                  fanficrevolution.blogspot.com
                  > _________________________________________________________________
                  > The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on
                  an Xbox 360 Console.
                  > http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/
                  >
                • Erica Friedman
                  And I think EoE makes it clear that any reciprocal feeling Ritsuko has is entirely fantasy on Maya s part, so there you go. ;-) I do not argue with fandom when
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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                    And I think EoE makes it clear that any reciprocal feeling Ritsuko has is entirely fantasy on Maya's part, so there you go. ;-)
                     
                    I do not argue with fandom when they insist in large number that a character should be on "The List" - even when I think it's a ridiculous choice. But every once in a while, I refuse, simply on the basis that it's a ridiculous choice. It's subjective.
                     
                    I've watched all of Eva, the ends, the movie and IMHO, there's no evidence whatsoever that Ritsuko returns Maya's feelings. She's aware of them, yes, flattered, maybe, but returns the interest, no. Sure, she ultimately realizes that Gendo is a bad choice, but that's hardly the same thing.
                     
                    Much like the person who suggested a character who never once shows an interest in another woman ever, but because of a stated dislike of men they wanted her included, with the comment, "because what other choice is there?"
                     
                    Not being overtly opposed to someone's interest in one's self and actually being interested is entirely different. I much prefer to include characters that actively show interest in another woman.
                     
                    When I look at Maya, I see a character created specifically to end up alone after a hopeless one-sided crush.  My point is that Yuri fandom *does* spend an awful lot of time rationalizing things like this - finding ways to justify that Ritsuko should be on the list - simply because Maya is, and it would be sad for her to be there alone.  Like Tomoyo, like Shizuru in HiME, like any number of apparently lesbian characters whose persons of interest are not really interested. (Feel free to discuss how wrong I am about these, too. lol)


                    Cheers,

                    Erica

                    Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
                    http://www.yuricon.org
                    Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com

                    "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
                    The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com



                    > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: crimsonlotus@...
                    > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:06:00 +0000
                    > Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri in the most unlikely place this season
                    >
                    > > Maya's definitely on the list. By virtue of Ritsuko's wanting to
                    > >sleep with Gendo...no.
                    >
                    > I understand and, generally, agree with your reasoning. To play
                    > Devil's Advocate, however, if the criterion for inclusion in the list
                    > is harbouring no desire for men whatsoever, that may be hard to
                    > substantiate in a number of cases. Conversely and - I imagine as you
                    > intended it to be - if the only plot relevant, canon and certifiable
                    > relationships/desires are heterosexual, then clearly the character
                    > cannot be on the list, no matter what the subtext is.
                    >
                    > Interestingly, though, I believe in the End of Evangelion it is made
                    > reasonably explicit that Ritsuko reciprocates Maya's feelings. Under
                    > those circumstances, does her infatuation/dependence on Gendo
                    > disqualify her? Given the pervasive nature of the relationship and
                    > the morbidity associated with it (especially cf. Ritsuko's mother), I
                    > would, in Erica's position say 'yes', that does not make her an
                    > especially emblematic member of the list.
                    >
                    > Nevertheless, there is something to be said about her 'soul' in EoE
                    > seeking out Maya (then of course, there is the question, which I am
                    > still ambiguous on, of whether the apparitions in EoE are actually
                    > the people they represent). Perhaps, in extremis, she decides - quite
                    > wisely - that Gendo is not what she wanted all along.
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    > MdG
                    >
                    > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com> From: crimsonlotus@...> Date: Wed,
                    > 12 Dec 2007 14:28:18 +0000> Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri in the most
                    > unlikely place this season> > Don't forget Ritsuko Akagi from NGE!
                    > (Controversial, I know, but > Maya's sitting there all alone).
                    > >
                    > > Maya's definitely on the list. By virtue of Ritsuko's wanting to
                    > sleep with Gendo...no.
                    > >
                    > > I find it interesting though, how many people request the addition
                    > of the *object* of a lesbian's desire on "The List" regardless if
                    > that character shows the slightest interest - or more often, not. :-
                    > ) As if we simply can't stand the idea that the character, whose role
                    > it is to pine away from the side, should just do that.
                    > > Cheers,EricaYuricon - "For real women who like their
                    > women...animated."http://www.yuricon.orgHungry for Yuri? Have some
                    > Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com"World Shaking" Fanfic -
                    > http://www.worldshaking.netThe Fanfic Revolution -
                    > fanficrevolution.blogspot.com
                    > > _________________________________________________________________
                    > > The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on
                    > an Xbox 360 Console.
                    > > http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • crimsonlotus20
                    As I already noted, I agree. There is too much - deliberate - ambiguity in Evangelion to confirm my thesis on Maya/Ritsuko. I am, however, fascinated by the
                    Message 9 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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                      As I already noted, I agree. There is too much - deliberate -
                      ambiguity in Evangelion to confirm my thesis on Maya/Ritsuko. I am,
                      however, fascinated by the final scenes in EoE and, upon second
                      reflection, find myself taking something of a middle ground. The
                      nature of the apparitions in EoE are, much like the rest of the film,
                      purely stylistic rather than substantive. Fuyutsuki dialogues with
                      Yui Ikari's shade, and ditto Gendo - suggesting that the spectre may
                      have represent an actual soul, but then the creepy cloned Reis swamp
                      other characters, so there is no consistency. Hence, the notion that
                      the apparitions represent anything but a common, amorphic
                      consciousness is difficult to sustain. Moreover, there is a tragic
                      conception in Evangelion which would make an entirely requited
                      relationship very difficult to argue for.

                      So...in summation, and for the sake of brevity, I have to agree with
                      you.

                      Regards,
                      MdG


                      --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > And I think EoE makes it clear that any reciprocal feeling Ritsuko
                      has is entirely fantasy on Maya's part, so there you go. ;-)
                      >
                      > I do not argue with fandom when they insist in large number that a
                      character should be on "The List" - even when I think it's a
                      ridiculous choice. But every once in a while, I refuse, simply on the
                      basis that it's a ridiculous choice. It's subjective.
                      >
                      > I've watched all of Eva, the ends, the movie and IMHO, there's no
                      evidence whatsoever that Ritsuko returns Maya's feelings. She's aware
                      of them, yes, flattered, maybe, but returns the interest, no. Sure,
                      she ultimately realizes that Gendo is a bad choice, but that's hardly
                      the same thing.
                      >
                      > Much like the person who suggested a character who never once shows
                      an interest in another woman ever, but because of a stated dislike of
                      men they wanted her included, with the comment, "because what other
                      choice is there?"
                      >
                      > Not being overtly opposed to someone's interest in one's self and
                      actually being interested is entirely different. I much prefer to
                      include characters that actively show interest in another woman.
                      >
                      > When I look at Maya, I see a character created specifically to end
                      up alone after a hopeless one-sided crush. My point is that Yuri
                      fandom *does* spend an awful lot of time rationalizing things like
                      this - finding ways to justify that Ritsuko should be on the list -
                      simply because Maya is, and it would be sad for her to be there
                      alone. Like Tomoyo, like Shizuru in HiME, like any number of
                      apparently lesbian characters whose persons of interest are not
                      really interested. (Feel free to discuss how wrong I am about these,
                      too. lol)
                      > http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/
                      >
                    • Erica Friedman
                      ... I think those two lines sum up Eva brilliantly. :-) lol I love Evangelion - any chance for me to listen to Ogata Megumi scream is good with me. But looking
                      Message 10 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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                        > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                        > From: crimsonlotus@...
                        > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:07:55 +0000
                        > Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri in the most unlikely place this season
                         
                        > As I already noted, I agree. There is too much - deliberate -
                        > ambiguity in Evangelion
                         
                        > so there is no consistency.
                         
                        I think those two lines sum up Eva brilliantly. :-) lol
                         
                        I love Evangelion - any chance for me to listen to Ogata Megumi scream is good with me. But looking for definitives in what was clearly meant to be a total wank on every level is a short trip to raving lunacy.
                         
                        It's sort of like that in most anime - we constantly look for meaning in what is meant to be brain candy. I'm not sure if that means we're really smart or really dumb. I think it means we're really otaku. :-D
                         

                        Cheers,

                        Erica

                        Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
                        http://www.yuricon.org
                        Hungry for Yuri? Have some Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com

                        "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
                        The Fanfic Revolution - fanficrevolution.blogspot.com





                        Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Get it now!
                      • mantennashowers@aol.com
                        I find it interesting though, how many people?request the addition of the?*object* of a lesbian s desire on The List regardless if that character shows the
                        Message 11 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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                          I find it interesting though, how many people request the addition of the *object* of a lesbian's desire on "The List" regardless if that character shows the slightest interest  - or more often, not. :-) As if we simply can't stand the idea that the character, whose role it is to pine away from the side, should just do that.

                          The thing is, the hopeless (often sacrificing) piners make up a large part of gay fictional characters out there- particularly if you tend to follow stuff in the scifi/fantasy/toon end of things. It's all too common, being a sexual minority, that your feelings won't be returned. But all this moping, all this dying... I really wish there'd be more moving on to people who can respond that way, enjoying friendships for what they are and less wallowing in an emo slushpit. And Tomoyo's really the only one I can think of who does so, right in movie 2- at the last minute.

                          It's the reality of being able to represent gay characters in mass media right now, though. Dumbledore's pathetic love life and the blonde boy in High School Musical are things you would have seen to indicate homosexuality in 50s movies but I think homosexuality revealed in an open canon is considered franchise poison. I know someone who got a look at Hasbro's GI Joe movie contract some years back and it had a "no gay" clause in it.



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                        • Rikaishi
                          ... This page has some decent info, with more scattered throughout the wiki, which may or may not help you in your noble quest.
                          Message 12 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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                            What's her name? (I'm updating "The List" this week.)

                            Cheers,

                            Erica

                            This page has some decent info, with more scattered throughout the wiki, which may or may not help you in your noble quest.
                            http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SchoolgirlLesbians

                            I also notice that for the Aria Manga you have Alicia and Akira down (which a far as I'm aware is heavy subtext, nothing confirmed) but no entry for Akari in the anime, where she and Alicia have enjoyed a steady buildup over both series (yes, you have to be looking for it, but it's there :p) and are virtually confirmed in a very romantic OVA. (will supply blow-by-blow breakdown if requested, and possibly even if not)

                            To summarize, this shipper is horrified that one of his favorite pairings are not recognized on the List.

                            On the upside this topic gave me an excuse to rewatch the OVA. Thanks ^^


                          • Ellen Kuhfeld
                            Hush, blow by blow isn t the right metaphor for yuri. Ellen Rose ... From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Rikaishi
                            Message 13 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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                              Hush, 'blow by blow' isn't the right metaphor for yuri.
                               
                              Ellen Rose
                               
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Rikaishi
                              Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 7:41 PM
                              To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Yuricon] Re: Yuri in the most unlikely place this season

                              What's her name? (I'm updating "The List" this week.)

                              Cheers,

                              Erica

                              This page has some decent info, with more scattered throughout the wiki, which may or may not help you in your noble quest.
                              http://tvtropes. org/pmwiki/ pmwiki.php/ Main/SchoolgirlL esbians

                              I also notice that for the Aria Manga you have Alicia and Akira down (which a far as I'm aware is heavy subtext, nothing confirmed) but no entry for Akari in the anime, where she and Alicia have enjoyed a steady buildup over both series (yes, you have to be looking for it, but it's there :p) and are virtually confirmed in a very romantic OVA. (will supply blow-by-blow breakdown if requested, and possibly even if not)

                              To summarize, this shipper is horrified that one of his favorite pairings are not recognized on the List.

                              On the upside this topic gave me an excuse to rewatch the OVA. Thanks ^^


                            • Rikaishi
                              ... I ve always thought blow by blow to be fairly universal, I m certainly not the first to use it in this context. The rest of your advice, however, may
                              Message 14 of 14 , Dec 12, 2007
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                                Hush, 'blow by blow' isn't the right metaphor for yuri.

                                I've always thought 'blow by blow' to be fairly universal, I'm certainly not the first to use it in this context.
                                The rest of your advice, however, may well be worth following.

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