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Re: Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

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  • crimsonlotus20
    Come on, that s below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to do with Yuri? Regards, MdG ... there an ... Behalf Of ... me to ... is, ... from ... nature
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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      Come on, that's below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to do
      with Yuri?

      Regards,
      MdG

      --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Kuhfeld" <ellen@...> wrote:
      >
      > I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were
      there an
      > Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
      >
      > Oook - Ellen Rose
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On
      Behalf Of
      > crimsonlotus20
      > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:19 PM
      > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [Yuricon] Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no
      > Tabibito
      >
      >
      > I know Erica panned the plot in her review on Okazu, but, allow
      me to
      > play Devil's Advocate and see if there is anything to salvage. It
      > occurred to me that the Library theme was actually rather
      > intelligent. It has been a post-modernist fixation, shared by the
      > writer Borges and philosophers such as Vattimo, that the entire
      > edifice of human thought is a massive library, stretching out into
      > infinity. People's stories are constantly read and re-read and no
      > book is ever the same after having been read more than once. That
      is,
      > re-interpreting an already interpreted story is yet another leap
      from
      > the 'original' reality.
      >
      > In this way, Yamibou does something to convey the feebleness of
      > mortal life (Hazuki herself, who struggles vainly against the
      nature
      > of the Universe) and the redemptive power of attachments that can
      > transcend interpretation and become universal forces onto
      themselves.
      > I align myself with those fans of the series who found the ending
      > rather touching. There is an almost Ganymede-like quality in
      Hatsumi
      > (who, to the best of my knowledge, is a semi-divine being)
      honouring
      > her attachment to Hazuki in the only way which is cosmically
      > feasible: that is, ensuring that her next avatar in Hazuki's
      > particular book (ie. plane of existence) is born out of the woman
      she
      > loves.
      >
      > This integrates something of a Gnostic/pseudo-Christian element.
      > Obvious pregnancy motifs aside, when Hatsumi is away, Lilith
      behaves
      > like a sort of capricious, flawed Demiurge. Her name, in and of
      > itself, reflects the rather ambiguous nature of her role
      (Lilith/Eve).
      >
      > In the end, when one takes a meta-narrative key to the plot, the
      > series is rather enjoyable, inasmuch as it echoes some of
      humanity's
      > much cherished myths. There is something quite powerful
      about 'taking
      > the plunge' against an unfathomable and uncaring universe for
      those
      > one loves. It becomes a Classical descent into the Underworld
      and, in
      > terms of conceptual vision, is not bad at all for being an anime
      > based on an H-game.
      >
    • Ellen Kuhfeld
      But - but - so much yuri takes place below the belt! (The percentage is higher in yaoi, though.) Besides, the library in Unseen University has books on all
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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        But - but - so much yuri takes place below the belt! (The percentage is higher in yaoi, though.) Besides, the library in Unseen University has books on all kinds of magic, including (I am sure) Tantric magic. I would imagine that includes a certain amount of Tantric Yuri. Probably more commonly practiced by the witches, though, as part of their oral tradition.
         
        Ellen Rose
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of crimsonlotus20
        Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:04 AM
        To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

        Come on, that's below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to do
        with Yuri?

        Regards,
        MdG

        --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups .com, "Ellen Kuhfeld" <ellen@...> wrote:
        >
        > I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were
        there an
        > Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
        >
        > Oook - Ellen Rose

        .

      • crimsonlotus20
        I very strongly agree on the correlation between plot-space and character-space. These are dynamic, inter-connecting strands which, together, form the basis of
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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          I very strongly agree on the correlation between plot-space and
          character-space. These are dynamic, inter-connecting strands which,
          together, form the basis of narrative. Which leads us to modernist
          poetry and what could be defined as the "correlative objective": I
          need only say "Oedipus" and you have someone who married his mother
          tears his eyes out in your head, without me having to go into further
          detail.

          In re-contextualising this debate, though, I would draw attention to
          the deliberate dissociation between transcendetal characters and
          localised characters in the Yamibou series. More specifically, you
          have the main cast of three women (Hazumi, Hatsumi and Lilith) who
          are transcendental and are therefore most closely associated to a
          meta-dimension. Conversely, the localised characters they meet in
          each book-world are functions of their environment. They exist to
          prop up the Metaverse. Which is why I thought Yamibou was actually a
          relatively interesting thematic effort: like the Immortal from
          Borges' short story, they are in the world but not of it.
          Stylistically, this reinforces the loneliness and uniqueness of the
          relationship between Hazumi and Hatsumi.

          Regards,
          MdG

          --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "crimsonlotus20" <crimsonlotus@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Come on, that's below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to
          do
          > with Yuri?
          >
          > Regards,
          > MdG
          >
          > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Kuhfeld" <ellen@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were
          > there an
          > > Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
          > >
          > > Oook - Ellen Rose
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -----Original Message-----
          > > From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On
          > Behalf Of
          > > crimsonlotus20
          > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:19 PM
          > > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [Yuricon] Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon
          no
          > > Tabibito
          > >
          > >
          > > I know Erica panned the plot in her review on Okazu, but, allow
          > me to
          > > play Devil's Advocate and see if there is anything to salvage.
          It
          > > occurred to me that the Library theme was actually rather
          > > intelligent. It has been a post-modernist fixation, shared by
          the
          > > writer Borges and philosophers such as Vattimo, that the entire
          > > edifice of human thought is a massive library, stretching out
          into
          > > infinity. People's stories are constantly read and re-read and
          no
          > > book is ever the same after having been read more than once.
          That
          > is,
          > > re-interpreting an already interpreted story is yet another
          leap
          > from
          > > the 'original' reality.
          > >
          > > In this way, Yamibou does something to convey the feebleness of
          > > mortal life (Hazuki herself, who struggles vainly against the
          > nature
          > > of the Universe) and the redemptive power of attachments that
          can
          > > transcend interpretation and become universal forces onto
          > themselves.
          > > I align myself with those fans of the series who found the
          ending
          > > rather touching. There is an almost Ganymede-like quality in
          > Hatsumi
          > > (who, to the best of my knowledge, is a semi-divine being)
          > honouring
          > > her attachment to Hazuki in the only way which is cosmically
          > > feasible: that is, ensuring that her next avatar in Hazuki's
          > > particular book (ie. plane of existence) is born out of the
          woman
          > she
          > > loves.
          > >
          > > This integrates something of a Gnostic/pseudo-Christian element.
          > > Obvious pregnancy motifs aside, when Hatsumi is away, Lilith
          > behaves
          > > like a sort of capricious, flawed Demiurge. Her name, in and of
          > > itself, reflects the rather ambiguous nature of her role
          > (Lilith/Eve).
          > >
          > > In the end, when one takes a meta-narrative key to the plot, the
          > > series is rather enjoyable, inasmuch as it echoes some of
          > humanity's
          > > much cherished myths. There is something quite powerful
          > about 'taking
          > > the plunge' against an unfathomable and uncaring universe for
          > those
          > > one loves. It becomes a Classical descent into the Underworld
          > and, in
          > > terms of conceptual vision, is not bad at all for being an anime
          > > based on an H-game.
          > >
          >
        • Adam Jones
          On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:13:54 -0000 ... I d dispute that bit slightly - Hazuki isn t an part of the meta-world as such, she s merely displaced within it for a
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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            On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:13:54 -0000
            "crimsonlotus20" <crimsonlotus@...> wrote:

            > In re-contextualising this debate, though, I would draw attention to
            > the deliberate dissociation between transcendetal characters and
            > localised characters in the Yamibou series. More specifically, you
            > have the main cast of three women (Hazumi, Hatsumi and Lilith) who
            > are transcendental and are therefore most closely associated to a
            > meta-dimension.

            I'd dispute that bit slightly - Hazuki isn't an part of the meta-world
            as such, she's merely displaced within it for a time. Unlike Eve and
            Lilith she clearly has a home-story and is condemned to remain in it
            eventually. (Which seemed rather forced, I have to say - given that
            she clearly had no problem surviving in the Library, I can't help but
            wonder why she couldn't simply have remained there...)

            > Which is why I thought Yamibou was actually a relatively interesting
            > thematic effort: like the Immortal from Borges' short story, they are
            > in the world but not of it.

            The structure of the series as a meta-story certainly presented all
            kinds of opportunities for the writers to do clever, interesting and
            poignant things with the structure they'd created. However, they were
            clearly far more focused on displaying as much T&A as possible
            (because, let's face it, breast-shots sell to LFBs), so said potential
            went almost entirely under-used.

            In fact, it would hardly surprise me to find a fanfic or two which
            managed to do much more interesting things with the premise than the
            series itself ever did. (It must surely be tempting as anything for
            those attracted to writing insane multiverse-spanning crossovers, for
            starters...)
            --
            Adam Jones (adam@...)(http://www.yggdrasl.demon.co.uk/)
            .oO("Endangered Animal Shredder" )
            PGP public key: http://www.yggdrasl.demon.co.uk/pubkey.asc
          • Ellen Kuhfeld
            When he saw what he had done, He tore his eyes out, one by one. A tragic end to a loyal son Who - loved his mother. Ellen Rose ... From:
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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              When he saw what he had done,
              He tore his eyes out, one by one.
              A tragic end to a loyal son
              Who - loved his mother.
               
              Ellen Rose
               
              -----Original Message-----
              From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of crimsonlotus20
              Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 1:14 PM
              To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

              I very strongly agree on the correlation between plot-space and
              character-space. These are dynamic, inter-connecting strands which,
              together, form the basis of narrative. Which leads us to modernist
              poetry and what could be defined as the "correlative objective": I
              need only say "Oedipus" and you have someone who married his mother
              tears his eyes out in your head, without me having to go into further
              detail.

              .

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