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RE: [Yuricon] Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

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  • Ellen Kuhfeld
    I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I d only accept it were there an Orangutan to serve as Librarian. Oook - Ellen Rose ... From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 5, 2007
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      I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were there an Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
       
      Oook - Ellen Rose
       
       
       
       -----Original Message-----
      From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of crimsonlotus20
      Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:19 PM
      To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Yuricon] Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

      I know Erica panned the plot in her review on Okazu, but, allow me to
      play Devil's Advocate and see if there is anything to salvage. It
      occurred to me that the Library theme was actually rather
      intelligent. It has been a post-modernist fixation, shared by the
      writer Borges and philosophers such as Vattimo, that the entire
      edifice of human thought is a massive library, stretching out into
      infinity. People's stories are constantly read and re-read and no
      book is ever the same after having been read more than once. That is,
      re-interpreting an already interpreted story is yet another leap from
      the 'original' reality.

      In this way, Yamibou does something to convey the feebleness of
      mortal life (Hazuki herself, who struggles vainly against the nature
      of the Universe) and the redemptive power of attachments that can
      transcend interpretation and become universal forces onto themselves.
      I align myself with those fans of the series who found the ending
      rather touching. There is an almost Ganymede-like quality in Hatsumi
      (who, to the best of my knowledge, is a semi-divine being) honouring
      her attachment to Hazuki in the only way which is cosmically
      feasible: that is, ensuring that her next avatar in Hazuki's
      particular book (ie. plane of existence) is born out of the woman she
      loves.

      This integrates something of a Gnostic/pseudo- Christian element.
      Obvious pregnancy motifs aside, when Hatsumi is away, Lilith behaves
      like a sort of capricious, flawed Demiurge. Her name, in and of
      itself, reflects the rather ambiguous nature of her role (Lilith/Eve) .

      In the end, when one takes a meta-narrative key to the plot, the
      series is rather enjoyable, inasmuch as it echoes some of humanity's
      much cherished myths. There is something quite powerful about 'taking
      the plunge' against an unfathomable and uncaring universe for those
      one loves. It becomes a Classical descent into the Underworld and, in
      terms of conceptual vision, is not bad at all for being an anime
      based on an H-game.

    • crimsonlotus20
      Come on, that s below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to do with Yuri? Regards, MdG ... there an ... Behalf Of ... me to ... is, ... from ... nature
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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        Come on, that's below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to do
        with Yuri?

        Regards,
        MdG

        --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Kuhfeld" <ellen@...> wrote:
        >
        > I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were
        there an
        > Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
        >
        > Oook - Ellen Rose
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On
        Behalf Of
        > crimsonlotus20
        > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:19 PM
        > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Yuricon] Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no
        > Tabibito
        >
        >
        > I know Erica panned the plot in her review on Okazu, but, allow
        me to
        > play Devil's Advocate and see if there is anything to salvage. It
        > occurred to me that the Library theme was actually rather
        > intelligent. It has been a post-modernist fixation, shared by the
        > writer Borges and philosophers such as Vattimo, that the entire
        > edifice of human thought is a massive library, stretching out into
        > infinity. People's stories are constantly read and re-read and no
        > book is ever the same after having been read more than once. That
        is,
        > re-interpreting an already interpreted story is yet another leap
        from
        > the 'original' reality.
        >
        > In this way, Yamibou does something to convey the feebleness of
        > mortal life (Hazuki herself, who struggles vainly against the
        nature
        > of the Universe) and the redemptive power of attachments that can
        > transcend interpretation and become universal forces onto
        themselves.
        > I align myself with those fans of the series who found the ending
        > rather touching. There is an almost Ganymede-like quality in
        Hatsumi
        > (who, to the best of my knowledge, is a semi-divine being)
        honouring
        > her attachment to Hazuki in the only way which is cosmically
        > feasible: that is, ensuring that her next avatar in Hazuki's
        > particular book (ie. plane of existence) is born out of the woman
        she
        > loves.
        >
        > This integrates something of a Gnostic/pseudo-Christian element.
        > Obvious pregnancy motifs aside, when Hatsumi is away, Lilith
        behaves
        > like a sort of capricious, flawed Demiurge. Her name, in and of
        > itself, reflects the rather ambiguous nature of her role
        (Lilith/Eve).
        >
        > In the end, when one takes a meta-narrative key to the plot, the
        > series is rather enjoyable, inasmuch as it echoes some of
        humanity's
        > much cherished myths. There is something quite powerful
        about 'taking
        > the plunge' against an unfathomable and uncaring universe for
        those
        > one loves. It becomes a Classical descent into the Underworld
        and, in
        > terms of conceptual vision, is not bad at all for being an anime
        > based on an H-game.
        >
      • Ellen Kuhfeld
        But - but - so much yuri takes place below the belt! (The percentage is higher in yaoi, though.) Besides, the library in Unseen University has books on all
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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          But - but - so much yuri takes place below the belt! (The percentage is higher in yaoi, though.) Besides, the library in Unseen University has books on all kinds of magic, including (I am sure) Tantric magic. I would imagine that includes a certain amount of Tantric Yuri. Probably more commonly practiced by the witches, though, as part of their oral tradition.
           
          Ellen Rose
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of crimsonlotus20
          Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:04 AM
          To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

          Come on, that's below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to do
          with Yuri?

          Regards,
          MdG

          --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups .com, "Ellen Kuhfeld" <ellen@...> wrote:
          >
          > I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were
          there an
          > Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
          >
          > Oook - Ellen Rose

          .

        • crimsonlotus20
          I very strongly agree on the correlation between plot-space and character-space. These are dynamic, inter-connecting strands which, together, form the basis of
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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            I very strongly agree on the correlation between plot-space and
            character-space. These are dynamic, inter-connecting strands which,
            together, form the basis of narrative. Which leads us to modernist
            poetry and what could be defined as the "correlative objective": I
            need only say "Oedipus" and you have someone who married his mother
            tears his eyes out in your head, without me having to go into further
            detail.

            In re-contextualising this debate, though, I would draw attention to
            the deliberate dissociation between transcendetal characters and
            localised characters in the Yamibou series. More specifically, you
            have the main cast of three women (Hazumi, Hatsumi and Lilith) who
            are transcendental and are therefore most closely associated to a
            meta-dimension. Conversely, the localised characters they meet in
            each book-world are functions of their environment. They exist to
            prop up the Metaverse. Which is why I thought Yamibou was actually a
            relatively interesting thematic effort: like the Immortal from
            Borges' short story, they are in the world but not of it.
            Stylistically, this reinforces the loneliness and uniqueness of the
            relationship between Hazumi and Hatsumi.

            Regards,
            MdG

            --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "crimsonlotus20" <crimsonlotus@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Come on, that's below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to
            do
            > with Yuri?
            >
            > Regards,
            > MdG
            >
            > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Kuhfeld" <ellen@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were
            > there an
            > > Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
            > >
            > > Oook - Ellen Rose
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > -----Original Message-----
            > > From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On
            > Behalf Of
            > > crimsonlotus20
            > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:19 PM
            > > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [Yuricon] Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon
            no
            > > Tabibito
            > >
            > >
            > > I know Erica panned the plot in her review on Okazu, but, allow
            > me to
            > > play Devil's Advocate and see if there is anything to salvage.
            It
            > > occurred to me that the Library theme was actually rather
            > > intelligent. It has been a post-modernist fixation, shared by
            the
            > > writer Borges and philosophers such as Vattimo, that the entire
            > > edifice of human thought is a massive library, stretching out
            into
            > > infinity. People's stories are constantly read and re-read and
            no
            > > book is ever the same after having been read more than once.
            That
            > is,
            > > re-interpreting an already interpreted story is yet another
            leap
            > from
            > > the 'original' reality.
            > >
            > > In this way, Yamibou does something to convey the feebleness of
            > > mortal life (Hazuki herself, who struggles vainly against the
            > nature
            > > of the Universe) and the redemptive power of attachments that
            can
            > > transcend interpretation and become universal forces onto
            > themselves.
            > > I align myself with those fans of the series who found the
            ending
            > > rather touching. There is an almost Ganymede-like quality in
            > Hatsumi
            > > (who, to the best of my knowledge, is a semi-divine being)
            > honouring
            > > her attachment to Hazuki in the only way which is cosmically
            > > feasible: that is, ensuring that her next avatar in Hazuki's
            > > particular book (ie. plane of existence) is born out of the
            woman
            > she
            > > loves.
            > >
            > > This integrates something of a Gnostic/pseudo-Christian element.
            > > Obvious pregnancy motifs aside, when Hatsumi is away, Lilith
            > behaves
            > > like a sort of capricious, flawed Demiurge. Her name, in and of
            > > itself, reflects the rather ambiguous nature of her role
            > (Lilith/Eve).
            > >
            > > In the end, when one takes a meta-narrative key to the plot, the
            > > series is rather enjoyable, inasmuch as it echoes some of
            > humanity's
            > > much cherished myths. There is something quite powerful
            > about 'taking
            > > the plunge' against an unfathomable and uncaring universe for
            > those
            > > one loves. It becomes a Classical descent into the Underworld
            > and, in
            > > terms of conceptual vision, is not bad at all for being an anime
            > > based on an H-game.
            > >
            >
          • Adam Jones
            On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:13:54 -0000 ... I d dispute that bit slightly - Hazuki isn t an part of the meta-world as such, she s merely displaced within it for a
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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              On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:13:54 -0000
              "crimsonlotus20" <crimsonlotus@...> wrote:

              > In re-contextualising this debate, though, I would draw attention to
              > the deliberate dissociation between transcendetal characters and
              > localised characters in the Yamibou series. More specifically, you
              > have the main cast of three women (Hazumi, Hatsumi and Lilith) who
              > are transcendental and are therefore most closely associated to a
              > meta-dimension.

              I'd dispute that bit slightly - Hazuki isn't an part of the meta-world
              as such, she's merely displaced within it for a time. Unlike Eve and
              Lilith she clearly has a home-story and is condemned to remain in it
              eventually. (Which seemed rather forced, I have to say - given that
              she clearly had no problem surviving in the Library, I can't help but
              wonder why she couldn't simply have remained there...)

              > Which is why I thought Yamibou was actually a relatively interesting
              > thematic effort: like the Immortal from Borges' short story, they are
              > in the world but not of it.

              The structure of the series as a meta-story certainly presented all
              kinds of opportunities for the writers to do clever, interesting and
              poignant things with the structure they'd created. However, they were
              clearly far more focused on displaying as much T&A as possible
              (because, let's face it, breast-shots sell to LFBs), so said potential
              went almost entirely under-used.

              In fact, it would hardly surprise me to find a fanfic or two which
              managed to do much more interesting things with the premise than the
              series itself ever did. (It must surely be tempting as anything for
              those attracted to writing insane multiverse-spanning crossovers, for
              starters...)
              --
              Adam Jones (adam@...)(http://www.yggdrasl.demon.co.uk/)
              .oO("Endangered Animal Shredder" )
              PGP public key: http://www.yggdrasl.demon.co.uk/pubkey.asc
            • Ellen Kuhfeld
              When he saw what he had done, He tore his eyes out, one by one. A tragic end to a loyal son Who - loved his mother. Ellen Rose ... From:
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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                When he saw what he had done,
                He tore his eyes out, one by one.
                A tragic end to a loyal son
                Who - loved his mother.
                 
                Ellen Rose
                 
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of crimsonlotus20
                Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 1:14 PM
                To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

                I very strongly agree on the correlation between plot-space and
                character-space. These are dynamic, inter-connecting strands which,
                together, form the basis of narrative. Which leads us to modernist
                poetry and what could be defined as the "correlative objective": I
                need only say "Oedipus" and you have someone who married his mother
                tears his eyes out in your head, without me having to go into further
                detail.

                .

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