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Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

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  • crimsonlotus20
    I know Erica panned the plot in her review on Okazu, but, allow me to play Devil s Advocate and see if there is anything to salvage. It occurred to me that the
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 5, 2007
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      I know Erica panned the plot in her review on Okazu, but, allow me to
      play Devil's Advocate and see if there is anything to salvage. It
      occurred to me that the Library theme was actually rather
      intelligent. It has been a post-modernist fixation, shared by the
      writer Borges and philosophers such as Vattimo, that the entire
      edifice of human thought is a massive library, stretching out into
      infinity. People's stories are constantly read and re-read and no
      book is ever the same after having been read more than once. That is,
      re-interpreting an already interpreted story is yet another leap from
      the 'original' reality.

      In this way, Yamibou does something to convey the feebleness of
      mortal life (Hazuki herself, who struggles vainly against the nature
      of the Universe) and the redemptive power of attachments that can
      transcend interpretation and become universal forces onto themselves.
      I align myself with those fans of the series who found the ending
      rather touching. There is an almost Ganymede-like quality in Hatsumi
      (who, to the best of my knowledge, is a semi-divine being) honouring
      her attachment to Hazuki in the only way which is cosmically
      feasible: that is, ensuring that her next avatar in Hazuki's
      particular book (ie. plane of existence) is born out of the woman she
      loves.

      This integrates something of a Gnostic/pseudo-Christian element.
      Obvious pregnancy motifs aside, when Hatsumi is away, Lilith behaves
      like a sort of capricious, flawed Demiurge. Her name, in and of
      itself, reflects the rather ambiguous nature of her role (Lilith/Eve).

      In the end, when one takes a meta-narrative key to the plot, the
      series is rather enjoyable, inasmuch as it echoes some of humanity's
      much cherished myths. There is something quite powerful about 'taking
      the plunge' against an unfathomable and uncaring universe for those
      one loves. It becomes a Classical descent into the Underworld and, in
      terms of conceptual vision, is not bad at all for being an anime
      based on an H-game.
    • Ellen Kuhfeld
      I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I d only accept it were there an Orangutan to serve as Librarian. Oook - Ellen Rose ... From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 5, 2007
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        I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were there an Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
         
        Oook - Ellen Rose
         
         
         
         -----Original Message-----
        From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of crimsonlotus20
        Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:19 PM
        To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Yuricon] Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

        I know Erica panned the plot in her review on Okazu, but, allow me to
        play Devil's Advocate and see if there is anything to salvage. It
        occurred to me that the Library theme was actually rather
        intelligent. It has been a post-modernist fixation, shared by the
        writer Borges and philosophers such as Vattimo, that the entire
        edifice of human thought is a massive library, stretching out into
        infinity. People's stories are constantly read and re-read and no
        book is ever the same after having been read more than once. That is,
        re-interpreting an already interpreted story is yet another leap from
        the 'original' reality.

        In this way, Yamibou does something to convey the feebleness of
        mortal life (Hazuki herself, who struggles vainly against the nature
        of the Universe) and the redemptive power of attachments that can
        transcend interpretation and become universal forces onto themselves.
        I align myself with those fans of the series who found the ending
        rather touching. There is an almost Ganymede-like quality in Hatsumi
        (who, to the best of my knowledge, is a semi-divine being) honouring
        her attachment to Hazuki in the only way which is cosmically
        feasible: that is, ensuring that her next avatar in Hazuki's
        particular book (ie. plane of existence) is born out of the woman she
        loves.

        This integrates something of a Gnostic/pseudo- Christian element.
        Obvious pregnancy motifs aside, when Hatsumi is away, Lilith behaves
        like a sort of capricious, flawed Demiurge. Her name, in and of
        itself, reflects the rather ambiguous nature of her role (Lilith/Eve) .

        In the end, when one takes a meta-narrative key to the plot, the
        series is rather enjoyable, inasmuch as it echoes some of humanity's
        much cherished myths. There is something quite powerful about 'taking
        the plunge' against an unfathomable and uncaring universe for those
        one loves. It becomes a Classical descent into the Underworld and, in
        terms of conceptual vision, is not bad at all for being an anime
        based on an H-game.

      • crimsonlotus20
        Come on, that s below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to do with Yuri? Regards, MdG ... there an ... Behalf Of ... me to ... is, ... from ... nature
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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          Come on, that's below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to do
          with Yuri?

          Regards,
          MdG

          --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Kuhfeld" <ellen@...> wrote:
          >
          > I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were
          there an
          > Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
          >
          > Oook - Ellen Rose
          >
          >
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of
          > crimsonlotus20
          > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:19 PM
          > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [Yuricon] Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no
          > Tabibito
          >
          >
          > I know Erica panned the plot in her review on Okazu, but, allow
          me to
          > play Devil's Advocate and see if there is anything to salvage. It
          > occurred to me that the Library theme was actually rather
          > intelligent. It has been a post-modernist fixation, shared by the
          > writer Borges and philosophers such as Vattimo, that the entire
          > edifice of human thought is a massive library, stretching out into
          > infinity. People's stories are constantly read and re-read and no
          > book is ever the same after having been read more than once. That
          is,
          > re-interpreting an already interpreted story is yet another leap
          from
          > the 'original' reality.
          >
          > In this way, Yamibou does something to convey the feebleness of
          > mortal life (Hazuki herself, who struggles vainly against the
          nature
          > of the Universe) and the redemptive power of attachments that can
          > transcend interpretation and become universal forces onto
          themselves.
          > I align myself with those fans of the series who found the ending
          > rather touching. There is an almost Ganymede-like quality in
          Hatsumi
          > (who, to the best of my knowledge, is a semi-divine being)
          honouring
          > her attachment to Hazuki in the only way which is cosmically
          > feasible: that is, ensuring that her next avatar in Hazuki's
          > particular book (ie. plane of existence) is born out of the woman
          she
          > loves.
          >
          > This integrates something of a Gnostic/pseudo-Christian element.
          > Obvious pregnancy motifs aside, when Hatsumi is away, Lilith
          behaves
          > like a sort of capricious, flawed Demiurge. Her name, in and of
          > itself, reflects the rather ambiguous nature of her role
          (Lilith/Eve).
          >
          > In the end, when one takes a meta-narrative key to the plot, the
          > series is rather enjoyable, inasmuch as it echoes some of
          humanity's
          > much cherished myths. There is something quite powerful
          about 'taking
          > the plunge' against an unfathomable and uncaring universe for
          those
          > one loves. It becomes a Classical descent into the Underworld
          and, in
          > terms of conceptual vision, is not bad at all for being an anime
          > based on an H-game.
          >
        • Ellen Kuhfeld
          But - but - so much yuri takes place below the belt! (The percentage is higher in yaoi, though.) Besides, the library in Unseen University has books on all
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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            But - but - so much yuri takes place below the belt! (The percentage is higher in yaoi, though.) Besides, the library in Unseen University has books on all kinds of magic, including (I am sure) Tantric magic. I would imagine that includes a certain amount of Tantric Yuri. Probably more commonly practiced by the witches, though, as part of their oral tradition.
             
            Ellen Rose
             
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of crimsonlotus20
            Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:04 AM
            To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

            Come on, that's below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to do
            with Yuri?

            Regards,
            MdG

            --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups .com, "Ellen Kuhfeld" <ellen@...> wrote:
            >
            > I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were
            there an
            > Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
            >
            > Oook - Ellen Rose

            .

          • crimsonlotus20
            I very strongly agree on the correlation between plot-space and character-space. These are dynamic, inter-connecting strands which, together, form the basis of
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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              I very strongly agree on the correlation between plot-space and
              character-space. These are dynamic, inter-connecting strands which,
              together, form the basis of narrative. Which leads us to modernist
              poetry and what could be defined as the "correlative objective": I
              need only say "Oedipus" and you have someone who married his mother
              tears his eyes out in your head, without me having to go into further
              detail.

              In re-contextualising this debate, though, I would draw attention to
              the deliberate dissociation between transcendetal characters and
              localised characters in the Yamibou series. More specifically, you
              have the main cast of three women (Hazumi, Hatsumi and Lilith) who
              are transcendental and are therefore most closely associated to a
              meta-dimension. Conversely, the localised characters they meet in
              each book-world are functions of their environment. They exist to
              prop up the Metaverse. Which is why I thought Yamibou was actually a
              relatively interesting thematic effort: like the Immortal from
              Borges' short story, they are in the world but not of it.
              Stylistically, this reinforces the loneliness and uniqueness of the
              relationship between Hazumi and Hatsumi.

              Regards,
              MdG

              --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "crimsonlotus20" <crimsonlotus@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Come on, that's below the belt: what does Terry Pratchett have to
              do
              > with Yuri?
              >
              > Regards,
              > MdG
              >
              > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Ellen Kuhfeld" <ellen@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I would call it, perhaps, bookspace. And I'd only accept it were
              > there an
              > > Orangutan to serve as Librarian.
              > >
              > > Oook - Ellen Rose
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On
              > Behalf Of
              > > crimsonlotus20
              > > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 6:19 PM
              > > To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [Yuricon] Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon
              no
              > > Tabibito
              > >
              > >
              > > I know Erica panned the plot in her review on Okazu, but, allow
              > me to
              > > play Devil's Advocate and see if there is anything to salvage.
              It
              > > occurred to me that the Library theme was actually rather
              > > intelligent. It has been a post-modernist fixation, shared by
              the
              > > writer Borges and philosophers such as Vattimo, that the entire
              > > edifice of human thought is a massive library, stretching out
              into
              > > infinity. People's stories are constantly read and re-read and
              no
              > > book is ever the same after having been read more than once.
              That
              > is,
              > > re-interpreting an already interpreted story is yet another
              leap
              > from
              > > the 'original' reality.
              > >
              > > In this way, Yamibou does something to convey the feebleness of
              > > mortal life (Hazuki herself, who struggles vainly against the
              > nature
              > > of the Universe) and the redemptive power of attachments that
              can
              > > transcend interpretation and become universal forces onto
              > themselves.
              > > I align myself with those fans of the series who found the
              ending
              > > rather touching. There is an almost Ganymede-like quality in
              > Hatsumi
              > > (who, to the best of my knowledge, is a semi-divine being)
              > honouring
              > > her attachment to Hazuki in the only way which is cosmically
              > > feasible: that is, ensuring that her next avatar in Hazuki's
              > > particular book (ie. plane of existence) is born out of the
              woman
              > she
              > > loves.
              > >
              > > This integrates something of a Gnostic/pseudo-Christian element.
              > > Obvious pregnancy motifs aside, when Hatsumi is away, Lilith
              > behaves
              > > like a sort of capricious, flawed Demiurge. Her name, in and of
              > > itself, reflects the rather ambiguous nature of her role
              > (Lilith/Eve).
              > >
              > > In the end, when one takes a meta-narrative key to the plot, the
              > > series is rather enjoyable, inasmuch as it echoes some of
              > humanity's
              > > much cherished myths. There is something quite powerful
              > about 'taking
              > > the plunge' against an unfathomable and uncaring universe for
              > those
              > > one loves. It becomes a Classical descent into the Underworld
              > and, in
              > > terms of conceptual vision, is not bad at all for being an anime
              > > based on an H-game.
              > >
              >
            • Adam Jones
              On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:13:54 -0000 ... I d dispute that bit slightly - Hazuki isn t an part of the meta-world as such, she s merely displaced within it for a
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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                On Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:13:54 -0000
                "crimsonlotus20" <crimsonlotus@...> wrote:

                > In re-contextualising this debate, though, I would draw attention to
                > the deliberate dissociation between transcendetal characters and
                > localised characters in the Yamibou series. More specifically, you
                > have the main cast of three women (Hazumi, Hatsumi and Lilith) who
                > are transcendental and are therefore most closely associated to a
                > meta-dimension.

                I'd dispute that bit slightly - Hazuki isn't an part of the meta-world
                as such, she's merely displaced within it for a time. Unlike Eve and
                Lilith she clearly has a home-story and is condemned to remain in it
                eventually. (Which seemed rather forced, I have to say - given that
                she clearly had no problem surviving in the Library, I can't help but
                wonder why she couldn't simply have remained there...)

                > Which is why I thought Yamibou was actually a relatively interesting
                > thematic effort: like the Immortal from Borges' short story, they are
                > in the world but not of it.

                The structure of the series as a meta-story certainly presented all
                kinds of opportunities for the writers to do clever, interesting and
                poignant things with the structure they'd created. However, they were
                clearly far more focused on displaying as much T&A as possible
                (because, let's face it, breast-shots sell to LFBs), so said potential
                went almost entirely under-used.

                In fact, it would hardly surprise me to find a fanfic or two which
                managed to do much more interesting things with the premise than the
                series itself ever did. (It must surely be tempting as anything for
                those attracted to writing insane multiverse-spanning crossovers, for
                starters...)
                --
                Adam Jones (adam@...)(http://www.yggdrasl.demon.co.uk/)
                .oO("Endangered Animal Shredder" )
                PGP public key: http://www.yggdrasl.demon.co.uk/pubkey.asc
              • Ellen Kuhfeld
                When he saw what he had done, He tore his eyes out, one by one. A tragic end to a loyal son Who - loved his mother. Ellen Rose ... From:
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 6, 2007
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                  When he saw what he had done,
                  He tore his eyes out, one by one.
                  A tragic end to a loyal son
                  Who - loved his mother.
                   
                  Ellen Rose
                   
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Yuricon@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of crimsonlotus20
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 1:14 PM
                  To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Yuricon] Re: Some (untidy) thoughts on Yami to Boshi to Hon no Tabibito

                  I very strongly agree on the correlation between plot-space and
                  character-space. These are dynamic, inter-connecting strands which,
                  together, form the basis of narrative. Which leads us to modernist
                  poetry and what could be defined as the "correlative objective": I
                  need only say "Oedipus" and you have someone who married his mother
                  tears his eyes out in your head, without me having to go into further
                  detail.

                  .

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