Re: [Yuricon] Marketing Anime and Manga in the U.S.
>From: bystrouska@...Based on the incredibly reliable source of evening J-Dramas I gather that
>Subject: Re: [Yuricon] Marketing Anime and Manga in the U.S.
>Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2007 04:01:15 +0200
>>Interestingly, Sei from Marimite is one of them. Eriko's father calls her
>True! I remember thinking it was interesting for Torii-san to call her
>Sei-kun. :) I also seem to recall another such occurrence in an anime I
>watched recently, but I've been catching up on so much stuff in the past
>weeks that I'm really having a hard time remember which series it was (I
>think it was a teacher referring to Nodame as "Noda- kun" in Nodame
>Cantabile, though). And while it might not actually happen quite as seldom
>as one might think, it seems that more often than not, the girl addressed
>with -kun is either a tomboy/boyish girl or a potential lesbian (another
>example that comes to mind in Rio in the Piet� manga).
it's not entirely unlikely for "-kun" to be used in professional settings.
It's on TV, so it must be true. ;-) And I've seen that in manga and anime
too, so QED. LOL (Another example is Rally Cheyenne from Silent Mobius. Her
superiors refer to her as Rally-kun.)
But yes, I have also noticed that boyish/tomboyish characters seem to get
"-kun" as well. There was a story in Yuri Hime by Chi Ran, in which a girl
was pretending to be a boy to woo another girl. When the woo-ee learned of
an accepted the other girl as a girl, she switched her "Natsuki-kun" to
"Natsuki-chan" which I found interesting.
So, while it's tru that "-kun" may not be exclusively used for boys, there
*does* seem, from my outsider's perspective, to be a little applied
masculinity in the term. And here I am simply musing digitally, this is in
no way an informed opionion: As if, by calling a female employee "-kun" one
is raising her from the status of feamle subordinate to male subordinate
level. Not peer, but a step up.
>(However, I remember Yumi's slight hesitation before using -kun whenYes, well...understandable given the circumstance.... :-)
>addressing Alice in one of the Marimite OAVs. lol)
>There's an old joke Jews tell one another, that if there were two men left
>Regarding the more general question of whether to keep the honorifics in a
>translation – I won't argue, as I haven't thought about it enough,
>but I'm not surprised to read translators are divided on this delicate
on earth there'd be three temples - mine, yours and the one we both boycott.
It is the nature of humans to disagree, I think.
As a translation student who's been
>told again and again to drop everything that might burden the flow of theThat's entirely my feeling. I also believe that people get stupider when you
>text, I understand the reservations, yet I can't help but feel that
>sometimes you can't leave them out without losing something otherwise
>tough to express in other languages.
treat them like stupid people. Explaining the honorifics doesn't take *that*
much time and effort.
I think there's a wide gap between calling someon "Kurusu-sempai" and
"Tomari" and by smoothing out the lines between them, you're losing
something specific to the relationship - and losing the importance of the
fact that someone like Hazumu *would* call Tomari by her given name, perhaps
with no honorific.
>I know that losing is inherent to translating. I'm reminded of it everydayIndeed it is! One of my argument sfor keeping honorifics intact is
>in class. ;) ) An interesting thing I noticed when going to my mum for
>help with reading the Marimite manga in Japanese is that whenever someone
>uses - sama, she kind of hesitates, then ends up translating with the
>French pronoun "vous" (which is the second person plural but also the
>formal, polite second person singular) rather than the more mainstream
>"tu" which anyone would use in dialogues between 16- to 18- year-olds.
>Sometimes she will force herself and translate with "tu", but it really
>looks like she's been tortured into it. lol And I have a hard time myself
>picturing Yumi addressing the Roses with the regular, casual "tu" or
>"toi", although if she were French, she would probably say "tu" rather
>than "vous" as not many French high school girls today would address their
>upperclassmen in such a polite manner... even when they are such peculiar
>upperclassmen. (But then again, it's not like we have such a strong notion
>of upperclassmen/ underclassmen here in France.) So it's really one of
>those things that are awfully difficult to deal with when translating.
>Which is also part of the appeal of the whole exercise, I guess. lol
specifically so the Japanese hierarchies are communicated. In the US we also
don't have that kind of notion of strong upper/underclassman relationships.
I think it's a sad thing idf they translate the Japanese so that it looses
what is an *key* and crucial cultureal relic - a thing that communicates
much of the focus of Japanese culture, and personal development...and also
makes it that much more obvious that this is *not* an western text one is
If I wanted to read American comics, I'd read American comics.
Aside from any issue of translating. The word "otaku" in Japanese means
"house" as in "the house of windsor." It is a quaintly formal word and one
of the reasons it was used for the hardccore creepy fans of anime and manga
was that they often spoke with a weird, quaint and strangely overblown
formality. I can personally attest to this. I often receive emails with an
overblown and weirdly out of place formaily - I've also had people come up
to me and speak to me that way, as if they through they were at a
Renaissance Faire. It always strikes me as somehow significant, although I
couldn't tell you why. Do these people have so little interhuman interaction
that they don't know how to speak normally? Do they immerse themselves in
the faux-feudal, ancient, formal, foreign so effectively that they don't
have the basic rudiments of everyday social intercourse?
Somehow I feel that this is relavant to this discussion of honorifics. I'm
not sure why. LOL
A new home for Mom, no cleanup required. All starts here.