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Re: [Yuricon] Re: your version of a maria-sama dub, if at all

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  • Erica Friedman
    ... I am not the biggest fan of dubs. For the reasons Serge gives - that they actors and actresses are not given time/space to work together, so they aren t
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
      >From: Chalcahuite <ximatl@...>
      >Reply-To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      >To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [Yuricon] Re: your version of a maria-sama dub, if at all
      >Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:38:01 -0500
      >
      >On Jan 7, 2007, at 10:40 AM, Wendy Mutsaarts wrote:
      >
      >>I hate hate hate dubs. Haven't seen any good ones ever.


      I am not the biggest fan of dubs. For the reasons Serge gives - that they
      actors and actresses are not given time/space to work together, so they
      aren't able to actually *act*. They either read the lines or these days,
      they try to act the parts against no one real, so everyone sounds a little
      overplayed. Not the actor/actresses faults - they are doing the best they
      can under the circumstances. For me the major issue is the gratuitous
      misprnounciation of names. Drives me downright batty.

      But I do think there have been some dubs that hold up. For anyone who has
      seen it, the Shinesman dub is a stand-out. The dub dialogue is funnier,
      hands down, than the sub.

      Both Tenchi (original TV series) and Fushigi Yugi dubs were no worse than
      the original language tracks. For Fushigi Yugi, there were moments when we
      switched back to English, because Chibi-Usa, erm, Miaka's voice, was so
      annoying.

      The Patlabor second movie is a misery as a story, but the dub was fine - and
      in the case of Clancy, you can finally hear her as the American she's
      supposed to be. lol

      But overall, I prefer subs or raw over dubs.

      >
      >I'd have to say that the other thing that bothers me about the dubs is the
      >lack of variety in types of voices in the dubs that I've heard. I mean
      >ranges, actually. Most of male voices tend to be tenors and most of the
      >females tend to be altos, so all the voices occupy the same middle
      >frequency ranges, and generally gets boring if everybody's speaking voice
      >sounds similar.

      Agreed.

      Japanese VAs are incredibly talented voice actors/actresses, often with an
      incredibly wide range of vocal abilities. American VAs simply don't have
      that skill.

      >Well, if Marimite were ever to be licensed by a NA company, a dub is
      >almost a necessity. The economics of the NA anime industry today dictate
      >that if you want even the slightest chance to recoup your initial
      >investment, you need a dub. Why? because people prefer not to have to read
      >their TVs. Unless a project was a labor of love and they can afford not to
      >make money or even break even, I don't think you are going to see many
      >sub-only releases from NA companies. The only one I can think of at the
      >moment is ADV's City Hunter TV series.

      Media Blasters has quite a few Japanese-only DVDs.

      Seraphim Call, most of the Kitty line, Loveless. They don't bother with
      things like dubs, (or a new typeface for the subs for the last ten years,
      for that matter. Or punctuation.)

      >As to the problem of dialects and accents, I don't think there's much that
      >any ADR director is going to be able to do to get it perfect, even if they
      >wanted to. The two languages are just too different, I think. So, I think
      >just like translators often have to find a close approximation for
      >something where there is no English equivalent, ADR directors often have
      >to find something that suggests the differences inherent between Osaka-ben
      >or Kyoto-ben or even the different formalities, if they are so inclined.


      And even when they do try, like with Osaka from Azumanga Daioh, or Shizuru
      from Mai-Hime, it backfires and sounds meh.


      >I think a lot of NA companies initially shied away from subtleties of the
      >Japanese language mainly for fear that it would make their production less
      >accessible to an American audience and that American audiences were,
      >perhaps, not sophisticated enough to understand or care about honorifics,
      >modes of address, differences of formality or what Osaka-ben or Kyoto-ben
      >says about a character. Which I don't think is an unreasonable
      >presumption, given how parochial Americans are generally perceived to be.

      Except that I have to argue - who are you selling these DVDs to? How many
      causal observers who knew little to nothing about anime picked up My HiMe,
      or ROD The TV? Compared with how many a priori fans of the series?

      Is it really a logical assumption? Sure, if you're talking about series that
      got Cartoon Network airtime, then yes, it's logical. But for series that go
      straight to DVD release here? I don't think so. The people who are buying
      these disks are the fandom - they already know the stuff in the series, the
      accents, the cultural relics - and when they don't educating them is a good
      idea. I don't ever agree with playing down to LCD, even if it means you lose
      economies of scale. (Which is why ALC is always bleeding money. LOL)

      >But, this maybe starting to change, albeit slowly.

      Yes.

      More manga, especially, is keeping honoriffics and adding in detailed notes
      so those who are interested can learn.

      I think that even
      > the casual anime fans in the States today tend to be more open to the
      >cultural differences than they were 10 years ago. Hopefully as the
      >audience matures, so will the industry in this respect.

      Agreed. We've come a tremendously long way in just five years. Five more,
      and things will be different again.

      >Getting back to Marimite, I think that if any company does pick it up,
      >they will do so, knowing full well the level of fan scrutiny will be
      >extremely high for their production of it.

      But will they care. That's the issue.


      >As for who I'd cast in a Marimite dub, I don't know any of the America VAs
      >well enough to begin to even guess. And frankly, if it comes to pass that
      >Marimite gets licensed, and they involve the fans in the American
      >production of the dub in the same vein as Kadokawa and Bandai, then
      >frankly I won't really care much. I'd be more concerned that the sub is as
      >accurate as possible, and that we get a lot of the same character goodies
      >the fans in Japan got.

      Amen my brother. :-)


      Cheers,

      Erica

      Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
      http://www.yuricon.org


      "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
      The Fanfic Revolution - http://www.fanficrevolution.org

      Because fanfic does not have to suck

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    • Erica Friedman
      Hi all - I m back from Japan and Comiket. It was a blast. I spent wayyyyyyyy too much and still missed stuff I wanted. LOL Thanks to Serge for keeping his Big
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
        Hi all -

        I'm back from Japan and Comiket. It was a blast. I spent wayyyyyyyy too much
        and still missed stuff I wanted. LOL

        Thanks to Serge for keeping his Big Brother eye on you all. (o)

        If you want to know what we did and what we bought, you can find the tales
        of travel on Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com

        Reviews of the stuff I got will come as I get to everything!

        Cheers,

        Erica

        Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
        http://www.yuricon.org


        "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
        The Fanfic Revolution - http://www.fanficrevolution.org

        Because fanfic does not have to suck

        _________________________________________________________________
        From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
        it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
      • Carmen DiProspero
        ... Just one more Japanese-only Media Blasters release, Sentimental Journey , which is based on the Sentimental Grafitti (if it s spelled incorrectly, my
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
          --- Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...> wrote:


          > Media Blasters has quite a few Japanese-only DVDs.
          >
          > Seraphim Call, most of the Kitty line, Loveless.
          > They don't bother with
          > things like dubs, (or a new typeface for the subs
          > for the last ten years,
          > for that matter. Or punctuation.)
          >
          Just one more Japanese-only Media Blasters release,
          "Sentimental Journey", which is based on the
          "Sentimental Grafitti" (if it's spelled incorrectly,
          my apoligies) PC game. I know for I have both that and
          "Seraphim Call".

          Carmen ^_^

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        • Johann Chua
          The Tagalog dub of Marimite was getting good, but it only made it to episode 9 or so. I think ABS-CBN realized they wouldn t be able to get away with saying
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 9, 2007
            The Tagalog dub of Marimite was getting good, but it only made it to
            episode 9 or so. I think ABS-CBN realized they wouldn't be able to get
            away with saying that the show was about friendship (pag-kakaibigan),
            rather than love (pag-iibigan), in their promo.

            One show I'd like to hear dubbed in English is The Twins at St Clare's,
            but only if it was done in the UK, though I probably wouldn't be able to
            tell the difference if it was done in Australia or New Zealand.

            In Japan pretty much all anime voice work is done in Tokyo, so getting
            everyone in the same place at the same time isn't that big a problem.
            North American dubbing is done in several places, so scheduling is a
            little trickier if you want specific actors rather than who's available
            in a given area. Anime overdubs (ADR) generally pay less than pre-lay
            work for American animation, so established VAs often have to use an
            alternate name to get around union regs.

            It'd be nice to have an anime dub voice-directed by Andrea Romano, but
            that'd call for a media conglomerate budget.
          • pachy_boy
            ... that they ... they ... days, ... a little ... best they ... It s not just Anime dub companies where the voice actors have to act their parts out solo
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 9, 2007
              --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Erica Friedman" <alecto_fury@...>
              wrote:
              >
              >
              >I am not the biggest fan of dubs. For the reasons Serge gives -
              that they
              > actors and actresses are not given time/space to work together, so
              they
              > aren't able to actually *act*. They either read the lines or these
              days,
              > they try to act the parts against no one real, so everyone sounds
              a little
              > overplayed. Not the actor/actresses faults - they are doing the
              best they
              > can under the circumstances.

              It's not just Anime dub companies where the voice actors have to
              act their parts out solo without another actor to play off of. This
              happens in all American animation studios; it's actually very rare
              to have two actors in Disney and Pixar productions play off of each
              other; the only example I can think of where that's the case is 'El
              Dorado' (although that's Dreamworks).

              > Japanese VAs are incredibly talented voice actors/actresses, often
              with an
              > incredibly wide range of vocal abilities. American VAs simply
              don't have
              > that skill.

              Maybe not as much as Japanese VAs (Chris Patton does the same
              voice all the time), but there are still some American VAs who
              change their voices with different characters. Patrick Swayze does a
              range of voices, and you wouldn't always recognize Luci Christian
              doing a cute girl character in one series but also does the tough
              teenager in another series.--Pachy_Boy
            • Joy Bordador
              Johann Chua wrote: The Tagalog dub of Marimite was getting good, but it only made it to episode 9 or so. I think ABS-CBN
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 9, 2007


                Johann Chua <johannconradchua@...> wrote:
                The Tagalog dub of Marimite was getting good, but it only made it to
                episode 9 or so. I think ABS-CBN realized they wouldn't be able to get
                away with saying that the show was about friendship (pag-kakaibigan), rather than love (pag-iibigan), in their promo.

                --> Oh, I thought it ended much sooner. My friends and I didn't sense it lasted for as long as 9 episodes. >_>0 ABS-CBN really shouldn't have bothered to dub it, at least not for the mainstream audience watching their local syndicated channel, ABS-CBN 2. (We're all still debating whether or not Marimite would've done better in ABS-CBN's straight-to-cable anime-only channel, though. I'd like to know your input on the subject if you don't mind. v^_^v)

                One show I'd like to hear dubbed in English is The Twins at St Clare's,
                but only if it was done in the UK, though I probably wouldn't be able to
                tell the difference if it was done in Australia or New Zealand.

                --> Actually, there'd be a big difference in accents for all the VAs of these countries if none of the VAs decide to adopt an American accent.

                --> As for myself, personally, I'd still rather see the Tagalog dubs if official language dubs must be done in our country. Some of them retain the nuances of the Japanese language in comparison to the American English dubs. ^_^

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              • pachy_boy
                ... My goof. I meant John Swasey ; I confused him with that other actor.
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 10, 2007
                  --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "pachy_boy" <pachy_boy@...> wrote:
                  >Patrick Swayze does a range of voices

                  My goof. I meant 'John Swasey'; I confused him with that other
                  actor.
                • Johann Chua
                  ... HERO would ve been better venue. Fewer restrictions on cable TV, probably at least one same-day replay, and it s not like the show had mass-market appeal
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 10, 2007
                    On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 19:21 -0800, Joy Bordador wrote:
                    > debating whether or not Marimite would've done better in ABS-CBN's
                    > straight-to-cable anime-only channel, though. I'd like to know your
                    > input on the subject if you don't mind. v^_^v)

                    HERO would've been better venue. Fewer restrictions on cable TV,
                    probably at least one same-day replay, and it's not like the show had
                    mass-market appeal like Inu-Yasha (which was the lead-in show). Looking
                    back, it didn't seem like they did much promotion on channel 2, though
                    people on their message boards were aware of it in advance.

                    > One show I'd like to hear dubbed in English is The Twins at St
                    > Clare's,
                    > but only if it was done in the UK, though I probably wouldn't be able
                    > to
                    > tell the difference if it was done in Australia or New Zealand.
                    >
                    > --> Actually, there'd be a big difference in accents for all the VAs
                    > of these countries if none of the VAs decide to adopt an American
                    > accent.

                    St Clare's is set in the UK. I forget if any of the girls are American.

                    It's weird that the show's been dubbed in lots of languages but not
                    English (judging by Anime News Network's encyclopedia, in addition to my
                    watching the Tagalog and Chinese dubs), when the original books were
                    written in English. You'd think there'd be some market. Then again
                    that seems to be the case for most anime based on English-language
                    children's books.
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