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Re: [Yuricon] Re: your version of a maria-sama dub, if at all

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  • Iain Brown
    ... I think Cowboy Bebop is the only case where I prefer the dub. They cast the perfect VAs for the three main roles, and they did a great job. (I still find
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
      Chalcahuite wrote:

      > I thought the Cowboy Bebop dub was excellent, I preferred it to the sub,
      > which is rare for me, as I've been a sub man since I started watching
      > anime.

      I think Cowboy Bebop is the only case where I prefer the dub. They cast
      the perfect VAs for the three main roles, and they did a great job. (I
      still find it amusing hearing "Spike" yelling at me from time to time in
      EQ2...)

      The only other dub I can think that comes close is "The Place Promised
      in our Early Days". ADV did an outstanding job there. Unfortunately,
      it's competing against Japanese VA's hand-selected by Shinkai, including
      Yuuka Nanri as Sayuri, so even there I prefer the sub. I'd definitely
      praise ADV highly for their rendition, though.
    • pachy_boy
      ... cast ... (I ... time in ... Promised ... including ... definitely ... I agree on The Place Promised in our Early Days. But I ve also heard of Anime purists
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
        --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, Iain Brown <iain@...> wrote:
        > I think Cowboy Bebop is the only case where I prefer the dub. They
        cast
        > the perfect VAs for the three main roles, and they did a great job.
        (I
        > still find it amusing hearing "Spike" yelling at me from time to
        time in
        > EQ2...)
        >
        > The only other dub I can think that comes close is "The Place
        Promised
        > in our Early Days". ADV did an outstanding job there. Unfortunately,
        > it's competing against Japanese VA's hand-selected by Shinkai,
        including
        > Yuuka Nanri as Sayuri, so even there I prefer the sub. I'd
        definitely
        > praise ADV highly for their rendition, though.

        I agree on The Place Promised in our Early Days. But I've also heard
        of Anime purists who even thought the dub versions to Fullmetal
        Alchemist and Hellsing were superior to or are at least as good as the
        Japanese audio. It may have to do with the fact the characters in
        these shows are English, and the seiyuu can't always get the English
        pronounciations and accents right; these two specific shows just feel
        more closer to home when in English. In ROD the TV, the three main
        heroines have English names. When the Seiyuu say Maggie's name, the
        best they can say it is to pronounce it 'Ma--ee.'--Pachy_Boy
      • Iain Brown
        ... I haven t seen FMA yet (a sad gap in my education, I know), but speaking as a Brit... I *can t* watch Hellsing dubbed. Dick Van Dyke did a better British
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
          pachy_boy wrote:

          > I agree on The Place Promised in our Early Days. But I've also heard
          > of Anime purists who even thought the dub versions to Fullmetal
          > Alchemist and Hellsing were superior to or are at least as good as the
          > Japanese audio. It may have to do with the fact the characters in
          > these shows are English, and the seiyuu can't always get the English
          > pronounciations and accents right; these two specific shows just feel
          > more closer to home when in English. In ROD the TV, the three main
          > heroines have English names. When the Seiyuu say Maggie's name, the
          > best they can say it is to pronounce it 'Ma--ee.'--Pachy_Boy

          I haven't seen FMA yet (a sad gap in my education, I know), but speaking
          as a Brit... I *can't* watch Hellsing dubbed. Dick Van Dyke did a better
          British accent than those VAs, they make me cringe :)
        • Erica Friedman
          ... I am not the biggest fan of dubs. For the reasons Serge gives - that they actors and actresses are not given time/space to work together, so they aren t
          Message 4 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
            >From: Chalcahuite <ximatl@...>
            >Reply-To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
            >To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [Yuricon] Re: your version of a maria-sama dub, if at all
            >Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:38:01 -0500
            >
            >On Jan 7, 2007, at 10:40 AM, Wendy Mutsaarts wrote:
            >
            >>I hate hate hate dubs. Haven't seen any good ones ever.


            I am not the biggest fan of dubs. For the reasons Serge gives - that they
            actors and actresses are not given time/space to work together, so they
            aren't able to actually *act*. They either read the lines or these days,
            they try to act the parts against no one real, so everyone sounds a little
            overplayed. Not the actor/actresses faults - they are doing the best they
            can under the circumstances. For me the major issue is the gratuitous
            misprnounciation of names. Drives me downright batty.

            But I do think there have been some dubs that hold up. For anyone who has
            seen it, the Shinesman dub is a stand-out. The dub dialogue is funnier,
            hands down, than the sub.

            Both Tenchi (original TV series) and Fushigi Yugi dubs were no worse than
            the original language tracks. For Fushigi Yugi, there were moments when we
            switched back to English, because Chibi-Usa, erm, Miaka's voice, was so
            annoying.

            The Patlabor second movie is a misery as a story, but the dub was fine - and
            in the case of Clancy, you can finally hear her as the American she's
            supposed to be. lol

            But overall, I prefer subs or raw over dubs.

            >
            >I'd have to say that the other thing that bothers me about the dubs is the
            >lack of variety in types of voices in the dubs that I've heard. I mean
            >ranges, actually. Most of male voices tend to be tenors and most of the
            >females tend to be altos, so all the voices occupy the same middle
            >frequency ranges, and generally gets boring if everybody's speaking voice
            >sounds similar.

            Agreed.

            Japanese VAs are incredibly talented voice actors/actresses, often with an
            incredibly wide range of vocal abilities. American VAs simply don't have
            that skill.

            >Well, if Marimite were ever to be licensed by a NA company, a dub is
            >almost a necessity. The economics of the NA anime industry today dictate
            >that if you want even the slightest chance to recoup your initial
            >investment, you need a dub. Why? because people prefer not to have to read
            >their TVs. Unless a project was a labor of love and they can afford not to
            >make money or even break even, I don't think you are going to see many
            >sub-only releases from NA companies. The only one I can think of at the
            >moment is ADV's City Hunter TV series.

            Media Blasters has quite a few Japanese-only DVDs.

            Seraphim Call, most of the Kitty line, Loveless. They don't bother with
            things like dubs, (or a new typeface for the subs for the last ten years,
            for that matter. Or punctuation.)

            >As to the problem of dialects and accents, I don't think there's much that
            >any ADR director is going to be able to do to get it perfect, even if they
            >wanted to. The two languages are just too different, I think. So, I think
            >just like translators often have to find a close approximation for
            >something where there is no English equivalent, ADR directors often have
            >to find something that suggests the differences inherent between Osaka-ben
            >or Kyoto-ben or even the different formalities, if they are so inclined.


            And even when they do try, like with Osaka from Azumanga Daioh, or Shizuru
            from Mai-Hime, it backfires and sounds meh.


            >I think a lot of NA companies initially shied away from subtleties of the
            >Japanese language mainly for fear that it would make their production less
            >accessible to an American audience and that American audiences were,
            >perhaps, not sophisticated enough to understand or care about honorifics,
            >modes of address, differences of formality or what Osaka-ben or Kyoto-ben
            >says about a character. Which I don't think is an unreasonable
            >presumption, given how parochial Americans are generally perceived to be.

            Except that I have to argue - who are you selling these DVDs to? How many
            causal observers who knew little to nothing about anime picked up My HiMe,
            or ROD The TV? Compared with how many a priori fans of the series?

            Is it really a logical assumption? Sure, if you're talking about series that
            got Cartoon Network airtime, then yes, it's logical. But for series that go
            straight to DVD release here? I don't think so. The people who are buying
            these disks are the fandom - they already know the stuff in the series, the
            accents, the cultural relics - and when they don't educating them is a good
            idea. I don't ever agree with playing down to LCD, even if it means you lose
            economies of scale. (Which is why ALC is always bleeding money. LOL)

            >But, this maybe starting to change, albeit slowly.

            Yes.

            More manga, especially, is keeping honoriffics and adding in detailed notes
            so those who are interested can learn.

            I think that even
            > the casual anime fans in the States today tend to be more open to the
            >cultural differences than they were 10 years ago. Hopefully as the
            >audience matures, so will the industry in this respect.

            Agreed. We've come a tremendously long way in just five years. Five more,
            and things will be different again.

            >Getting back to Marimite, I think that if any company does pick it up,
            >they will do so, knowing full well the level of fan scrutiny will be
            >extremely high for their production of it.

            But will they care. That's the issue.


            >As for who I'd cast in a Marimite dub, I don't know any of the America VAs
            >well enough to begin to even guess. And frankly, if it comes to pass that
            >Marimite gets licensed, and they involve the fans in the American
            >production of the dub in the same vein as Kadokawa and Bandai, then
            >frankly I won't really care much. I'd be more concerned that the sub is as
            >accurate as possible, and that we get a lot of the same character goodies
            >the fans in Japan got.

            Amen my brother. :-)


            Cheers,

            Erica

            Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
            http://www.yuricon.org


            "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
            The Fanfic Revolution - http://www.fanficrevolution.org

            Because fanfic does not have to suck

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          • Erica Friedman
            Hi all - I m back from Japan and Comiket. It was a blast. I spent wayyyyyyyy too much and still missed stuff I wanted. LOL Thanks to Serge for keeping his Big
            Message 5 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
              Hi all -

              I'm back from Japan and Comiket. It was a blast. I spent wayyyyyyyy too much
              and still missed stuff I wanted. LOL

              Thanks to Serge for keeping his Big Brother eye on you all. (o)

              If you want to know what we did and what we bought, you can find the tales
              of travel on Okazu: http://okazu.blogspot.com

              Reviews of the stuff I got will come as I get to everything!

              Cheers,

              Erica

              Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
              http://www.yuricon.org


              "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
              The Fanfic Revolution - http://www.fanficrevolution.org

              Because fanfic does not have to suck

              _________________________________________________________________
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              it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1
            • Carmen DiProspero
              ... Just one more Japanese-only Media Blasters release, Sentimental Journey , which is based on the Sentimental Grafitti (if it s spelled incorrectly, my
              Message 6 of 19 , Jan 8, 2007
                --- Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...> wrote:


                > Media Blasters has quite a few Japanese-only DVDs.
                >
                > Seraphim Call, most of the Kitty line, Loveless.
                > They don't bother with
                > things like dubs, (or a new typeface for the subs
                > for the last ten years,
                > for that matter. Or punctuation.)
                >
                Just one more Japanese-only Media Blasters release,
                "Sentimental Journey", which is based on the
                "Sentimental Grafitti" (if it's spelled incorrectly,
                my apoligies) PC game. I know for I have both that and
                "Seraphim Call".

                Carmen ^_^

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              • Johann Chua
                The Tagalog dub of Marimite was getting good, but it only made it to episode 9 or so. I think ABS-CBN realized they wouldn t be able to get away with saying
                Message 7 of 19 , Jan 9, 2007
                  The Tagalog dub of Marimite was getting good, but it only made it to
                  episode 9 or so. I think ABS-CBN realized they wouldn't be able to get
                  away with saying that the show was about friendship (pag-kakaibigan),
                  rather than love (pag-iibigan), in their promo.

                  One show I'd like to hear dubbed in English is The Twins at St Clare's,
                  but only if it was done in the UK, though I probably wouldn't be able to
                  tell the difference if it was done in Australia or New Zealand.

                  In Japan pretty much all anime voice work is done in Tokyo, so getting
                  everyone in the same place at the same time isn't that big a problem.
                  North American dubbing is done in several places, so scheduling is a
                  little trickier if you want specific actors rather than who's available
                  in a given area. Anime overdubs (ADR) generally pay less than pre-lay
                  work for American animation, so established VAs often have to use an
                  alternate name to get around union regs.

                  It'd be nice to have an anime dub voice-directed by Andrea Romano, but
                  that'd call for a media conglomerate budget.
                • pachy_boy
                  ... that they ... they ... days, ... a little ... best they ... It s not just Anime dub companies where the voice actors have to act their parts out solo
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jan 9, 2007
                    --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Erica Friedman" <alecto_fury@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >I am not the biggest fan of dubs. For the reasons Serge gives -
                    that they
                    > actors and actresses are not given time/space to work together, so
                    they
                    > aren't able to actually *act*. They either read the lines or these
                    days,
                    > they try to act the parts against no one real, so everyone sounds
                    a little
                    > overplayed. Not the actor/actresses faults - they are doing the
                    best they
                    > can under the circumstances.

                    It's not just Anime dub companies where the voice actors have to
                    act their parts out solo without another actor to play off of. This
                    happens in all American animation studios; it's actually very rare
                    to have two actors in Disney and Pixar productions play off of each
                    other; the only example I can think of where that's the case is 'El
                    Dorado' (although that's Dreamworks).

                    > Japanese VAs are incredibly talented voice actors/actresses, often
                    with an
                    > incredibly wide range of vocal abilities. American VAs simply
                    don't have
                    > that skill.

                    Maybe not as much as Japanese VAs (Chris Patton does the same
                    voice all the time), but there are still some American VAs who
                    change their voices with different characters. Patrick Swayze does a
                    range of voices, and you wouldn't always recognize Luci Christian
                    doing a cute girl character in one series but also does the tough
                    teenager in another series.--Pachy_Boy
                  • Joy Bordador
                    Johann Chua wrote: The Tagalog dub of Marimite was getting good, but it only made it to episode 9 or so. I think ABS-CBN
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jan 9, 2007


                      Johann Chua <johannconradchua@...> wrote:
                      The Tagalog dub of Marimite was getting good, but it only made it to
                      episode 9 or so. I think ABS-CBN realized they wouldn't be able to get
                      away with saying that the show was about friendship (pag-kakaibigan), rather than love (pag-iibigan), in their promo.

                      --> Oh, I thought it ended much sooner. My friends and I didn't sense it lasted for as long as 9 episodes. >_>0 ABS-CBN really shouldn't have bothered to dub it, at least not for the mainstream audience watching their local syndicated channel, ABS-CBN 2. (We're all still debating whether or not Marimite would've done better in ABS-CBN's straight-to-cable anime-only channel, though. I'd like to know your input on the subject if you don't mind. v^_^v)

                      One show I'd like to hear dubbed in English is The Twins at St Clare's,
                      but only if it was done in the UK, though I probably wouldn't be able to
                      tell the difference if it was done in Australia or New Zealand.

                      --> Actually, there'd be a big difference in accents for all the VAs of these countries if none of the VAs decide to adopt an American accent.

                      --> As for myself, personally, I'd still rather see the Tagalog dubs if official language dubs must be done in our country. Some of them retain the nuances of the Japanese language in comparison to the American English dubs. ^_^

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                    • pachy_boy
                      ... My goof. I meant John Swasey ; I confused him with that other actor.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jan 10, 2007
                        --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "pachy_boy" <pachy_boy@...> wrote:
                        >Patrick Swayze does a range of voices

                        My goof. I meant 'John Swasey'; I confused him with that other
                        actor.
                      • Johann Chua
                        ... HERO would ve been better venue. Fewer restrictions on cable TV, probably at least one same-day replay, and it s not like the show had mass-market appeal
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jan 10, 2007
                          On Tue, 2007-01-09 at 19:21 -0800, Joy Bordador wrote:
                          > debating whether or not Marimite would've done better in ABS-CBN's
                          > straight-to-cable anime-only channel, though. I'd like to know your
                          > input on the subject if you don't mind. v^_^v)

                          HERO would've been better venue. Fewer restrictions on cable TV,
                          probably at least one same-day replay, and it's not like the show had
                          mass-market appeal like Inu-Yasha (which was the lead-in show). Looking
                          back, it didn't seem like they did much promotion on channel 2, though
                          people on their message boards were aware of it in advance.

                          > One show I'd like to hear dubbed in English is The Twins at St
                          > Clare's,
                          > but only if it was done in the UK, though I probably wouldn't be able
                          > to
                          > tell the difference if it was done in Australia or New Zealand.
                          >
                          > --> Actually, there'd be a big difference in accents for all the VAs
                          > of these countries if none of the VAs decide to adopt an American
                          > accent.

                          St Clare's is set in the UK. I forget if any of the girls are American.

                          It's weird that the show's been dubbed in lots of languages but not
                          English (judging by Anime News Network's encyclopedia, in addition to my
                          watching the Tagalog and Chinese dubs), when the original books were
                          written in English. You'd think there'd be some market. Then again
                          that seems to be the case for most anime based on English-language
                          children's books.
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