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Re: [Yuricon] Re: Notes from the third Marimite novel, Part 2

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  • Resop
    ... I stand corrected. ... Well, my thought was the irrational belief that since all the other girls who share a screen in the opening sequence of Marimite
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 3, 2005
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      --- Erica Friedman <alecto_fury@...> wrote:

      > >From: Resop <resop2@...>
      > >Reply-To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      > >To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > >On the other hand, I could see Yuuki being "pressured" into making
      > >Sachiko's other relation (the pig-tailed heel girl) her petite soeur.
      >
      > You mean Yumi and Touko?

      I stand corrected.

      > I don't think that's likely to happen at all. My
      > guess is that Yumi will pick someone who has not yet appeared in the novels
      > at all - an entirely new character. (I base this solely on my irrational
      > belief that Konno Oyuki writes pretty much exactly what I would write in any
      > given situation, and *I* would have Yumi pick someone entirely new. LOL)

      Well, my thought was the irrational belief that since all the other girls who
      share a screen in the opening sequence of Marimite spring get paired up,
      that Yumi and Touko would follow suit.

      Now, there is another scenario that I have thought of, based on Touko's
      self-image as a scheme-queen (she hasn't done the shoujo villain laugh
      yet, but I'm sure that she has practiced it). The idea would be that
      the girl who is helping Yoshino learn Kenpo decides she wants to help
      out the yamayurikai (so she can be closer to Rei). Since, obviously, Yoshino
      would never accept her as a petite soeur and Yumi would never accept
      Touko as her petite soeur (stay away from my grand soeur you hussy)
      Touko comes up with the scheme where Yoshino takes Touko and Yumi
      takes the Judo girl.

      Admittedly, not an idea anyone would be happy with, but one that
      Touko would be sure to consider.

      Craig
    • Erica Friedman
      ... It might make a nice fanfic, but I have several objections to it being anything like a possible storyline: It would be starkly out of character for
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 3, 2005
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        >From: Resop <resop2@...>
        >Reply-To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
        >To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com

        >Now, there is another scenario that I have thought of, based on Touko's
        >self-image as a scheme-queen (she hasn't done the shoujo villain laugh
        >yet, but I'm sure that she has practiced it). The idea would be that
        >the girl who is helping Yoshino learn Kenpo decides she wants to help
        >out the yamayurikai (so she can be closer to Rei). Since, obviously,
        >Yoshino
        >would never accept her as a petite soeur and Yumi would never accept
        >Touko as her petite soeur (stay away from my grand soeur you hussy)
        >Touko comes up with the scheme where Yoshino takes Touko and Yumi
        >takes the Judo girl.
        >
        >Admittedly, not an idea anyone would be happy with, but one that
        >Touko would be sure to consider.

        It might make a nice fanfic, but I have several objections to it being
        anything like a possible storyline:

        It would be starkly out of character for Yoshino. Yoshino has no reason to
        help Touko and, in fact, disliked and suspected her long before Yumi even
        realized that there was a reason to. Not to mention the fact that, I can't
        remember her name, sadly, the girl you are referring to, (Chiharu maybe?)
        shows no real sign of being Yoshino's rival, per se, but is clearly dead set
        on trying to emulate Rei, rather than become her soeur.

        And as Yumi is Yoshino's friend, I seriously doubt she would choose the one
        even slightly potential rival in the whole of the school for Rei's attention
        for her soeur.

        I also don't see the ROI for Touko in this. Touko has all the access to
        Sachiko that she wants, since she is family, and Yumi has already invited
        her to help the Yamayurikai, so she is in and out of the Rose Mansion all
        the time. In fact, if anything, Touko seems rather unenthused about helping
        the YYK at the end of Parasol wo Sagashite. So conniving to become a member
        makes no sense.

        Cheers,

        Erica
      • runaway_donkey
        ... was gay or ... was ... understand ... alright, perhaps out was too strong a term. what i meant was, i believe that by the time of the novels, sei has
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 3, 2005
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          --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "Erica Friedman" <alecto_fury@h...>
          wrote:
          > Frankly, I don't think Sei had enough time to realize whether she
          was gay or
          > not. She lost Shiori immediately after kissing her, so for her, it
          was
          > possible that the next year was when she might really start to
          understand
          > what was going on with her.

          alright, perhaps "out" was too strong a term. what i meant was, i
          believe that by the time of the novels, sei has achieved a level of
          acceptance about her attraction to women. she generally puts
          herself in the same boat as kashiwagi (although they dislike each
          other immensely). and she doesn't seem particularly interested in
          men. remember, she asks yumi to evaluate kashiwagi's
          attractiveness, since she apparently has no eye for such things.

          >
          > >My question is this, in Japanese are there two different words for
          > >female mistress and male mistress? After all, maybe the Ogasawara
          > >"tradition" isn't to take female mistresses at all?
          >
          > The text was fairly specific - Sachiko's father has "another
          woman" as do
          > all the other men in the family.
          >

          i think that it does specifically say women in reference to
          sachiko's father and grandfather. when kashiwagi is talking to
          sachiko, he actually says that he thinks the two of them are alike
          (i'm not sure what that implies...) and they should take lovers,
          using either the word koibito or aijin, i forget which. neither is
          particularly gender specific. as for other words, the only thing
          that comes to mind is the word nigou-san, "ñ†‚³‚ñ, which means #2 or
          something like that. also not necessarily gender specific, but i've
          only heard it in reference to women, unlike koibito or aijin.

          > To me it seems that
          > Yuuki/Kasahiwagi is meant as a foil for Yumi/Sachiko - one
          relationship
          > frought with emotional intensity, the other played for laughs,
          like a clown
          > parodying a dramatic actor as he recites his lines.

          i always thought that the yuuki/kashiwagi relationship was more of a
          parallel with the yumi/sei relationship. kinda like in the new
          years side story.

          > You mean Yumi and Touko? I don't think that's likely to happen at
          all. My
          > guess is that Yumi will pick someone who has not yet appeared in
          the novels
          > at all - an entirely new character.

          i agree that konno might just create a new character to be yumi's
          souer. neither touko nor kanako have outright declared that they
          are candidates for the position, and i've heard (haven't read that
          far either...) that in one of the later novels, kanako tells sachiko
          that if yumi were to ask her, she would refuse. could go either
          way. i'm actually quite interested in what yoshino's gonna do.
          after all, she's made a bet with eriko that she will find a souer
          soon. but the only 1st years she seems to know are noriko, touko,
          and kanako. some people seem to think that yoshino might make a
          girl by the name of naitou shouko her souer. this is because
          shouko's (real) older sister, katsumi, was a rival of eriko's, and
          shouko and yoshino have some personality traits in common. however,
          shouko has more of a tie in with tsutako, so who knows how that will
          turn out.

          -alf
        • Erica Friedman
          ... on with her. ... While I don t disagree, I m not sure we have any real proof of this at all. ... I m looking forward to reading the bits where Kei and Sei
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 4, 2005
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            >From: "runaway_donkey" <alf_the_donkey@...>
            >Reply-To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
            >To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
            on with her.
            >
            >alright, perhaps "out" was too strong a term. what i meant was, i
            >believe that by the time of the novels, sei has achieved a level of
            >acceptance about her attraction to women.

            While I don't disagree, I'm not sure we have any real proof of this at all.
            :-) Other than that gut feeling thing, again.

            I'm looking forward to reading the bits where Kei and Sei intereact. God
            knows I'd *love* to have a short about Sei's life at college to over-analyze
            for lesban cues. LOL

            she generally puts
            >herself in the same boat as kashiwagi (although they dislike each
            >other immensely).

            I'll agree with that. Sei recognizes a gayboy when she sees him...although
            it's possible that she knew about Kashiwagi through Youko, a priori.

            In the New Year's Day manga, amusingly, Sei does to Yumi *exactly* what she
            warns Kashiwagi not to do to Yuuki - so yes, they are obviously similar
            types and Sei knows it.

            and she doesn't seem particularly interested in
            >men. remember, she asks yumi to evaluate kashiwagi's
            >attractiveness, since she apparently has no eye for such things.

            I think that was, rather, that Sei understood Yumi's natural sympathy for
            Sachiko and wanted to know whether Yumi approved. :-)


            >i think that it does specifically say women in reference to
            >sachiko's father and grandfather. when kashiwagi is talking to
            >sachiko, he actually says that he thinks the two of them are alike
            >(i'm not sure what that implies...)

            Could be anything, but remember, Sachiko isn't the only person who will have
            to marry for the family. Kashiwagi also has a duty to his family and doesnt'
            really have *any* possibility of marrying for love. He'll be expected to
            take a wife and have children, and his desire for me will have to be hidden
            from everyone else in his family. In that sense, Kashiwagi is a little lucky
            to have Schiko as his fiancee' - at least he doesn't have to hide it from
            her.

            Of course, *we* want it to mean that he sees Sachiko as being attracted to
            same sex partners as well. LOL But they are actually the same in other ways
            that make alot more sense.



            >i agree that konno might just create a new character to be yumi's
            >souer. neither touko nor kanako have outright declared that they
            >are candidates for the position, and i've heard (haven't read that
            >far either...) that in one of the later novels, kanako tells sachiko
            >that if yumi were to ask her, she would refuse. could go either
            >way. i'm actually quite interested in what yoshino's gonna do.
            >after all, she's made a bet with eriko that she will find a souer
            >soon. but the only 1st years she seems to know are noriko, touko,
            >and kanako. some people seem to think that yoshino might make a
            >girl by the name of naitou shouko her souer. this is because
            >shouko's (real) older sister, katsumi, was a rival of eriko's, and
            >shouko and yoshino have some personality traits in common. however,
            >shouko has more of a tie in with tsutako, so who knows how that will
            >turn out.

            Fan art says....Shouko's all about Tsutako. LOL

            Cheers,

            Erica

            Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
            http://www.yuricon.org


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