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Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence - no spoilers

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  • Erica Friedman
    ... It was actually a cute thing. :-) It really *is* all about the dog. :-) Good: The animation was *stunning* amazing breathtaking. The story held together,
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 18, 2004
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      >From: Regina Buenaobra <sr388@...>
      >Reply-To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com

      >Now... The dog being the best character... Does this mean that's a good
      >thing or
      >a bad thing for the rest of the film? I have heard that the animation
      >itself is
      >brilliant.

      It was actually a cute thing. :-) It really *is* all about the dog. :-)

      Good: The animation was *stunning* amazing breathtaking. The story held
      together, and had lots of lit/art/poetry/myth references which made it
      interesting to me, but I'm fairly certain lost most of the audience. The
      Major does make a cameo in a sense - she actually is in the whole final
      scene...it was interesting and cool, because....oh, wait, no spoilers. :-)

      Interesting: The "dolls" are all based on the art of a German surrealist
      named Hans Bellmer, so they are actually unattractive and creepy. His art
      was very misogynistic, so having sex-function gynoids based on them actually
      makes alot of sense...

      Oh, and as a quick note: Batou is only half right when he talks about Jakob
      Grimm's writing. The words are from a legend from Prague, in fact. I have to
      be vague here, because I don't want to give away anything. But if you know
      the Golem of Prague legend, you'll recognize the words. (If you're quick
      enought to catch that, then you caught the other two references in the scene
      before Batou points them out, too.)

      Bad - typical of an anime cyberpunk, this movie gets a little talk-y, with
      endless discussions about the nature of humanity and what makes a *real*
      person, and human's need to be immortal through replication...etc, etc. And
      the kid in front of me ate something really loud and crunchy for like the
      first 40 minutes. It was really funny/annoying because it was SO loud and
      crunchy. I was like - is his head hollow? Is that why it's so loud...?

      Nonetheless, this movie was *way* better than I imagined it would be. I
      recommend it to all but the straight shoujo fans and people with short
      attention spans - because you have to *actually* pay attention to get what's
      going on. :-)

      Movie gets 9 out 10 for me.

      Plus, I had an incredible dijnner beforehand, so I was in a magnanimous
      mood. Thanks Jen - I had a greta time on our "date"! :-) If anyone ever
      plans on seeing anything at the Imaginasian theater, *definitely* go to the
      French Revolution restaurant on 3rd Ave., right around the corner. It's
      brilliant. :-)



      Cheers,

      Erica

      Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
      http://www.yuricon.org


      "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
      The Fanfic Revolution - http://www.fanficrevolution.org

      Because fanfic does not have to suck

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    • Chalcahuite
      On Sep 18, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Erica Friedman wrote: Finally saw this last night. ... Oshii certainly loves putting his dog in his movies. But, knowing that it
      Message 2 of 9 , Oct 6, 2004
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        On Sep 18, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Erica Friedman wrote:

        Finally saw this last night.

        >> From: Regina Buenaobra <sr388@...>
        >> Reply-To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >> Now... The dog being the best character... Does this mean that's a
        >> good
        >> thing or
        >> a bad thing for the rest of the film? I have heard that the animation
        >> itself is
        >> brilliant.
        >
        > It was actually a cute thing. :-) It really *is* all about the dog. :-)

        Oshii certainly loves putting his dog in his movies. But, knowing that
        it was, specifically, his dog kinda dampened the symbolism of it for
        me. I kept thinking about nepotism. ;)

        > Good: The animation was *stunning* amazing breathtaking.

        I agree, the animation was gorgeous and in some spots indistinguishable
        from film.

        > The story held
        > together, and had lots of lit/art/poetry/myth references which made it
        > interesting to me, but I'm fairly certain lost most of the audience.

        Donna said that if she knew it was going to be so head-trippy she would
        have come high. ;)

        > The
        > Major does make a cameo in a sense - she actually is in the whole final
        > scene...it was interesting and cool, because....oh, wait, no spoilers.
        > :-)

        The seiyuu were the same for the first movie and the TV show, except
        for Chief Aramaki, so it was pretty easy to know when she was around.

        > Interesting: The "dolls" are all based on the art of a German
        > surrealist
        > named Hans Bellmer, so they are actually unattractive and creepy. His
        > art
        > was very misogynistic, so having sex-function gynoids based on them
        > actually
        > makes alot of sense...

        That does make a lot of sense, though I was never really familiar with
        his work before now. But, yeah, Japanese dolls and clowns creep me out,
        so this was a little extra disturbing.

        > Oh, and as a quick note: Batou is only half right when he talks about
        > Jakob
        > Grimm's writing. The words are from a legend from Prague, in fact. I
        > have to
        > be vague here, because I don't want to give away anything. But if you
        > know
        > the Golem of Prague legend, you'll recognize the words. (If you're
        > quick
        > enought to catch that, then you caught the other two references in the
        > scene
        > before Batou points them out, too.)

        I missed the Grimm reference entirely, until Batou pointed it out. But
        I did clue in to what was happening right away.

        > Bad - typical of an anime cyberpunk, this movie gets a little talk-y,
        > with
        > endless discussions about the nature of humanity and what makes a
        > *real*
        > person, and human's need to be immortal through replication...etc, etc.

        Yeah, I warned a friend of mine in advance, and since we were at a late
        show, he admitted to dozing during the dialogue heavy scenes. Oshii
        likes this theme a lot. I count 3 movies he's done on this now, Ghost
        in the Shell, Avalon, Innocence. I haven't seen Jin-Roh yet, but I'd be
        surprised if it wasn't similar.

        > And
        > the kid in front of me ate something really loud and crunchy for like
        > the
        > first 40 minutes. It was really funny/annoying because it was SO loud
        > and
        > crunchy. I was like - is his head hollow? Is that why it's so loud...?

        We had the entire theater to ourselves, which I'm sure means that it
        won't playing much longer, so I'm glad I got to see it.

        >
        > Nonetheless, this movie was *way* better than I imagined it would be. I
        > recommend it to all but the straight shoujo fans and people with short
        > attention spans - because you have to *actually* pay attention to get
        > what's
        > going on. :-)

        It was exactly what I expected it to be. Gorgeous to look at, slow,
        ponderous in places, with lots of literary and philosophical
        references. It was kinda like Richard Linklater (Waking Life) remaking
        BladeRunner.

        -==-
        Serge
        "Everybody's feeling fine, because it's party time!"
      • shenotski
        question is there more over exposition about the fundimentals of existance or less then the first movie?
        Message 3 of 9 , Oct 6, 2004
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          question is there more over exposition about the fundimentals of
          existance or less then the first movie?
        • Chalcahuite
          ... I d have to rewatch the first movie again, to be accurate, but I think there is more in this one, from what I can remember. -==- Serge Everybody s feeling
          Message 4 of 9 , Oct 6, 2004
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            On Oct 6, 2004, at 6:00 PM, shenotski wrote:

            >
            >
            > question is there more over exposition about the fundimentals of
            > existance or less then the first movie?

            I'd have to rewatch the first movie again, to be accurate, but I think
            there is more in this one, from what I can remember.

            -==-
            Serge
            "Everybody's feeling fine, because it's party time!"
          • Jen
            ... fundimentals of existance or less then the first movie? Much more. In one scene, a guy (100% robot) standing 6 steps away from Batou & Togusa starts
            Message 5 of 9 , Oct 7, 2004
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              --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "shenotski" <duomaxwell@f...> wrote:
              >
              > question is there more over exposition about the
              fundimentals of existance or less then the first movie?


              Much more.

              In one scene, a guy (100% robot) standing 6 steps away from Batou &
              Togusa starts walking towards them, giving a speech about
              existence. After 65 or so slow steps and one dull speech, he's
              STILL standing about 6 steps away from them.

              What's more, there's frequent obscene acts of quotage. Here's a
              typical conversation from IGitS:


              TOGUSA: "Hey Bat-chan. Want some pizza?"

              BATOU: (quotes Nitsche)

              TOGUSA: (quotes Buddha)

              BATOU: (quotes Faust)

              TOGUSA: "Really?"

              BATOU: (quotes Engels)

              TOGUSA: (quotes Confucious)

              BATOU: (quotes Hubbard)

              TOGUSA: "Oh, F*ck you! Take the pizza!"



              Just like the 1st movie, you just know the parts when they're doing
              good animation just to show off... but dang, that's some GOOD
              animation. They deserve to show off.


              Me, I just miss the bratty Motoko from Masamune's books. Sure, she
              had deep thoughts, but Motoko was brash and wild and wasn't above
              punching Batou in the face for laffs when the occasion demanded.

              I say Mamoru Oshii got his turn with GitS #1 and his "Oh God I need
              to get laid" Motoko, and that should've been that. Time for someone
              else to have a go. MY vote goes to the MariMite crew. Just tweak
              with the Rosa Chinesis tenplate and lapse into the occasional
              chibi... and BOOM! Ghost in the Shell as Masamune intended.
              (according to me) ^_^


              Kisses XXOOXX
              Jen
            • shenotski
              Allright thanks for the info, Going to wait for the DVD then. Also because i can t go anywhere since i cought this danm cold thats going around my collage.
              Message 6 of 9 , Oct 7, 2004
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                Allright thanks for the info, Going to wait for the DVD then. Also
                because i can't go anywhere since i cought this danm cold thats
                going around my collage.

                Hope you all stay healthy.

                Isaac
                > I say Mamoru Oshii got his turn with GitS #1 and his "Oh God I
                need
                > to get laid" Motoko, and that should've been that. Time for
                someone
                > else to have a go. MY vote goes to the MariMite crew. Just tweak
                > with the Rosa Chinesis tenplate and lapse into the occasional
                > chibi... and BOOM! Ghost in the Shell as Masamune intended.
                > (according to me) ^_^
                >
                >
                > Kisses XXOOXX
                > Jen
              • unclero@lycos.nl
                ... Avalon was, despite the great sfx, plain boring, I heard numerous stories of people sleeping during it. Add Urusei Yatsura: Beatiful Dreamer to the
                Message 7 of 9 , Oct 11, 2004
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                  > Yeah, I warned a friend of mine in advance, and since we were at a late
                  > show, he admitted to dozing during the dialogue heavy scenes. Oshii
                  > likes this theme a lot. I count 3 movies he's done on this now, Ghost
                  > in the Shell, Avalon, Innocence. I haven't seen Jin-Roh yet, but I'd be
                  > surprised if it wasn't similar.

                  Avalon was, despite the great sfx, plain boring, I heard numerous stories of
                  people sleeping during it.
                  Add Urusei Yatsura: Beatiful Dreamer to the list.....since then, I hold a
                  grudge against Oshii.


                  Ro'
                • Regina Buenaobra
                  ... I totally loved Avalon. I think I m in the minority in this, as I ve read lots of opinions that mirror yours. Regina _______________________________ Do you
                  Message 8 of 9 , Oct 11, 2004
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                    --- unclero@... wrote:

                    > > Yeah, I warned a friend of mine in advance, and since we were at a late
                    > > show, he admitted to dozing during the dialogue heavy scenes. Oshii
                    > > likes this theme a lot. I count 3 movies he's done on this now, Ghost
                    > > in the Shell, Avalon, Innocence. I haven't seen Jin-Roh yet, but I'd be
                    > > surprised if it wasn't similar.
                    >
                    > Avalon was, despite the great sfx, plain boring, I heard numerous stories of
                    > people sleeping during it.
                    > Add Urusei Yatsura: Beatiful Dreamer to the list.....since then, I hold a
                    > grudge against Oshii.

                    I totally loved Avalon. I think I'm in the minority in this, as I've read lots of
                    opinions that mirror yours.

                    Regina



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                  • Trishane Lee
                    I thought Avalon was cool besides the whole discolored Yellow vision thingy. that hurt my eyes until i got used to it but it did it s job. Shane ... I totally
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 11, 2004
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                      I thought Avalon was cool besides the whole discolored Yellow vision thingy. that hurt my eyes until i got used to it but it did it's job.
                       
                      Shane

                      Regina Buenaobra <sr388@...> wrote:

                      --- unclero@... wrote:

                      > > Yeah, I warned a friend of mine in advance, and since we were at a late
                      > > show, he admitted to dozing during the dialogue heavy scenes.  Oshii
                      > > likes this theme a lot. I count 3 movies he's done on this now, Ghost
                      > > in the Shell, Avalon, Innocence. I haven't seen Jin-Roh yet, but I'd be
                      > > surprised if it wasn't similar.
                      >
                      > Avalon was, despite the great sfx, plain boring, I heard numerous stories of
                      > people sleeping during it.
                      > Add Urusei Yatsura: Beatiful Dreamer to the list.....since then, I hold a
                      > grudge against Oshii.

                      I totally loved Avalon. I think I'm in the minority in this, as I've read lots of
                      opinions that mirror yours.

                      Regina


                                 
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