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Re: [Yuricon] Re: Kurau: Phantom Memory Ep 1

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  • Chalcahuite
    ... Uh, not to be a gloomy Gus, but the energy based lifeform angle puts a question mark on any potential yuri subtext for me here. How can we tell if what we
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 3, 2004
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      On Jul 1, 2004, at 2:12 PM, atheniag wrote:

      > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "donnaneely" <donnaneely@y...> wrote:
      >
      >> Promising?
      >
      > I have no idea if it has a single ounce of yuri, but I have a terrific
      > picture from the game with the two lead females - one laying on the
      > other, both with guns drawn and ready to shoot. To me it says,
      > "subtext yuri only" but it's still a great picture. :-)

      Uh, not to be a gloomy Gus, but the energy based lifeform angle puts a
      question mark on any potential yuri subtext for me here. How can we
      tell if what we may be seeing is based on genuine human emotion or just
      the closest human approximation of their natural state of being? . If I
      think about it the Rynax exists as a binary energy based lifeform, so
      I'm guessing things like sex, gender, and, I think, emotions, are
      pretty much meaningless in their natural state of existence, so we can
      attempt to define their existence/relationship in human terms, but I
      think, and especially if the writers are being honest, it's a
      translation that's somewhat lacking. Kind of like translating Japanese
      to English and back, I don't think you can express the full gamut of
      each existence completely.
      Anyway, it's not going to stop me from watching, because it was very
      riveting, I'm just not sure it'll be List material.

      -==-
      Serge
    • donnaneely
      I would compare it to the Trill in Star Treks Jadziha Dax (sic). The lifeform required a Human host? Hence fans were able to see two women resolving a romance
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 3, 2004
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        I would compare it to the Trill in Star Treks Jadziha Dax (sic). The
        lifeform required a Human host? Hence fans were able to see two women
        resolving a romance that if it would have continued would have been -
        between two women with a trill inside one of them. Would you refuse
        to watch it cuz it wasnt Yuri - heck i was watching it repeatedly
        just cuz it WAS Yuri in every way imagery-wise. I mean lets not
        forget that imagery carries its own messages regardless of the in
        depth backstory.

        Also, lets not completely disregard that Kurau cried real tears at
        the arrival of her partner, as well as having considerable human
        variety angst whilst waiting 10 yrs for her partners arrival. And
        showed affection for her father whilst being a "energy based life
        form" that was explained as the human in her coming through.

        It occurs to me that many anime characters are embued with
        otherworldy characteristics or cyborg parts or whatever. I believe
        the demand for any List character to be utterly 100% human would
        likely result in many qualifiers being removed. Say the mech from
        Yokohama, Witch Anthy, Goddess in El Hazard, Devilman Lady, Digimon
        in Tamers, Vampire Princess Miyu, Jubei (who is a man actually),
        Steel Angel, etc etc etc,,,, have i made the point yet Serge???

        Makes me laugh that the guy who is still hoping for that yuri in
        Daphne is disregarding Kurau out of the box. So Serge you earned
        another laugh/chuckle from me.

        regards, donnaneely



        > Uh, not to be a gloomy Gus, but the energy based lifeform angle
        puts a
        > question mark on any potential yuri subtext for me here. How can we
        > tell if what we may be seeing is based on genuine human emotion or
        just
        > the closest human approximation of their natural state of being? .
        If I
        > think about it the Rynax exists as a binary energy based lifeform,
        so
        > I'm guessing things like sex, gender, and, I think, emotions, are
        > pretty much meaningless in their natural state of existence, so we
        can
        > attempt to define their existence/relationship in human terms, but
        I
        > think, and especially if the writers are being honest, it's a
        > translation that's somewhat lacking. Kind of like translating
        Japanese
        > to English and back, I don't think you can express the full gamut
        of
        > each existence completely.
        > Anyway, it's not going to stop me from watching, because it was
        very
        > riveting, I'm just not sure it'll be List material.
        >
        > -==-
        > Serge
      • Erica Friedman
        ... You could ask that question of Alpha and Kokone in Yokohama Shopping Log, too, or the steel angel that obbsesses over Kurumi, too. I think that there has
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 3, 2004
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          >From: Chalcahuite <ximatl@...>

          >Uh, not to be a gloomy Gus, but the energy based lifeform angle puts a
          >question mark on any potential yuri subtext for me here. How can we
          >tell if what we may be seeing is based on genuine human emotion or just
          >the closest human approximation of their natural state of being? .

          You could ask that question of Alpha and Kokone in Yokohama Shopping Log,
          too, or the steel angel that obbsesses over Kurumi, too. I think that there
          has to be a hand-wave there. We have to assume that the emotion is real, or
          why bother to write it in at all?


          Cheers,

          Erica

          Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
          http://www.yuricon.org


          "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
          The Fanfic Revolution - http://www.fanficrevolution.org

          Because fanfic does not have to suck

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        • Chalcahuite
          ... Well, I don t know if Androids/robots/etc are a good example here, since they re generally constructed from the start to emulate or approximate the human
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 3, 2004
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            On Jul 3, 2004, at 5:13 PM, Erica Friedman wrote:

            >
            >
            >> From: Chalcahuite <ximatl@...>
            >
            >> Uh, not to be a gloomy Gus, but the energy based lifeform angle puts a
            >> question mark on any potential yuri subtext for me here. How can we
            >> tell if what we may be seeing is based on genuine human emotion or
            >> just
            >> the closest human approximation of their natural state of being? .
            >
            > You could ask that question of Alpha and Kokone in Yokohama Shopping
            > Log,
            > too, or the steel angel that obbsesses over Kurumi, too. I think that
            > there
            > has to be a hand-wave there. We have to assume that the emotion is
            > real, or
            > why bother to write it in at all?

            Well, I don't know if Androids/robots/etc are a good example here,
            since they're generally constructed from the start to emulate or
            approximate the human experience, especially in these cases, as opposed
            to completely alien life form with which I don't think we can
            completely identify with. However, I understand the point you're
            making, so I'll just chalk it up to over thinking things again. ;)

            -==-
            Serge
          • Chalcahuite
            ... Well, Star Trek always plays a little fast and loose with the science aspects of their stories, but I would argue that the Dax host, since it s a living
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 3, 2004
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              On Jul 3, 2004, at 2:35 PM, donnaneely wrote:

              > I would compare it to the Trill in Star Treks Jadziha Dax (sic). The
              > lifeform required a Human host?

              Well, Star Trek always plays a little fast and loose with the science
              aspects of their stories, but I would argue that the Dax host, since
              it's a living creature with a physical body is far easier to ascribe
              the human experience to, then something that exists as pure energy.

              > It occurs to me that many anime characters are embued with
              > otherworldy characteristics or cyborg parts or whatever. I believe
              > the demand for any List character to be utterly 100% human would
              > likely result in many qualifiers being removed. etc etc etc,,,, have i
              > made the point yet Serge???

              I'm not advocating any sort of purity standard for the List; it's fine
              the way it is. <mock outrage> And I'll thank you to let me jump to my
              own conclusions, if you please. </>
              And if the point is that it's sometimes necessary to ascribe the human
              condition to things that are not human to tell a story, then yes, I
              concede the point willingly. Though the difference that I find, and
              has gotten me into trouble apparently, is that everyone you mentioned
              in your list was either created by humans to mimic the human condition
              or is based or related to humanity in some way. The Rynax are not at
              all related to humanity in any aspect that I can tell, which is why I
              questioned it.

              > Makes me laugh that the guy who is still hoping for that yuri in
              > Daphne is disregarding Kurau out of the box. So Serge you earned
              > another laugh/chuckle from me.

              Well, I'm glad I don't have to try so hard anymore to make you laugh.
              Apparently the key is my inability to articulate coherently ;)

              I wasn't completely disregarding Kurau out of the box, I was just
              implying that the Rynax, since they are energy based life forms and
              beyond our experience, threw up a flag for my inner science geek.
              Obviously, if I weren't a bit of a hard SF fanboy, I wouldn't be in so
              much trouble, now. :-P

              -==-
              Serge
              "I'm taking my marbles, and going home!"
            • Trishane Lee
              I think serge is taking it all a little too seriously. and who knows what energy based life forms can feel Have you ever known one? Shane Chalcahuite
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 3, 2004
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                I think serge is taking it all a little too seriously. and who knows what energy based life forms can feel Have you ever known one?
                 
                Shane


                Chalcahuite <ximatl@...> wrote:
                On Jul 3, 2004, at 2:35 PM, donnaneely wrote:

                > I would compare it to the Trill in Star Treks Jadziha Dax (sic). The
                > lifeform required a Human host?

                Well, Star Trek  always plays a little fast and loose with the science
                aspects of their stories, but I would argue that the Dax host, since
                it's a living creature with a physical body is far easier to ascribe
                the human experience to, then something that exists as pure energy.

                > It occurs to me that many anime characters are embued with
                > otherworldy characteristics or cyborg parts or whatever. I believe
                > the demand for any List character to be utterly 100% human would
                > likely result in many qualifiers being removed. etc etc etc,,,, have i
                > made the point yet Serge???

                I'm not advocating any sort of purity standard for the List; it's fine
                the way it is. <mock outrage> And I'll thank you to let me jump to my
                own conclusions, if you please. </>
                And if the point is that it's sometimes necessary to ascribe the human
                condition to things that are not human to tell a story, then yes, I
                concede the point willingly.  Though the difference that I find, and
                has gotten me into trouble apparently, is that everyone you mentioned
                in your list was either created by humans to mimic the human condition
                or is based or related to humanity in some way. The Rynax are not at
                all related to humanity in any aspect that I can tell, which is why I
                questioned it.

                > Makes me laugh that the guy who is still hoping for that yuri in
                > Daphne is disregarding Kurau out of the box. So Serge you earned
                > another laugh/chuckle from me.

                Well, I'm glad I don't have to try so hard anymore to make you laugh.
                Apparently the key is my inability to articulate coherently ;)

                I wasn't completely disregarding Kurau out of the box, I was just
                implying that the Rynax, since they are energy based life forms and
                beyond our experience, threw up a flag for my inner science geek.
                Obviously, if I weren't a bit of a hard SF fanboy, I wouldn't be in so
                much trouble, now. :-P

                -==-
                Serge
                "I'm taking my marbles, and going home!"



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              • Chalcahuite
                ... Certainly, wouldn t be the first time. I m just wired that way I guess. ;) -==- Serge
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 4, 2004
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                  On Jul 4, 2004, at 2:51 AM, Trishane Lee wrote:

                  > I think serge is taking it all a little too seriously.

                  Certainly, wouldn't be the first time. I'm just wired that way I guess.
                  ;)

                  -==-
                  Serge
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