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More on Utena the Movie

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  • donnaneely
    Funny this subject should come up......I happened to watch the movie this weekend also. I was noticing the following - and would love comments or corrections
    Message 1 of 4 , Jun 1, 2004
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      Funny this subject should come up......I happened to watch the movie
      this weekend also. I was noticing the following - and would love
      comments or corrections from my more-knowledgeable-about-Utena
      listmates:

      - Both Anthy and Akio had red markings on their forehead reminiscent
      of spiritual or religious markings/designations. Was this to make
      clearer that these two were "Other" or Witches? Or just the fancy of
      our illustrious Utena anime director Ikuhara.

      - I again, against all advice, listened to the commentary from the
      director. But I was oh so amused this time. He actually discussed
      having Anthy kiss Utena during the first duel. How there was a major
      debate amongst the creative staff on that action. Many felt they
      shouldn't since they never had in the TV series. Ikuhara concluded by
      saying " We put it in because....well...I WANTED them to
      kiss." ....... And am I, the viewer, ever glad for that! Why
      because....

      - it seemed there was at least one more moment or two of much more
      literal presentation/explanation going on here in the movie then the
      series. One being of course the kiss during the first duel. But most
      of all for me, the speechifying by both Utena and Anthy as they are
      speeding along on the remains of the car at the end. Anthy chose
      Utena? Anthy called her to the first duel? I dont recall that being
      the impetus for dueling in the series. I thought it was
      seeing Anthy be battered around by Saionji and disliking that on
      principle? And of course, more literalness with them kissing again at
      the close. There really was no room for doubt about the nature of
      their relationship in the movie. Whereas in the series - squeamish
      folks might have been able to see them as friends to the end.
      Especially since Utena in the series has the conversation with Juri
      drawing a distinction between Juri's kind of feelings for Shiori, and
      her own for Anthy. Using the word Pure and such.

      - as for the Yoni imagery, mentioned by Jen/others, when they find
      Akio's body, and the Phallic car......if you want to take the
      symbolism a bit further....in the climatic scene of escape, just as
      the Prince/Akio is trying to make a final halt to their
      escape, I could have sworn the links of tread in the rotating tracks
      squeezing the Utena-mobile took a markedly different shape. To include
      protruding edges that were to me very reminiscent of razor blade
      edges. The old vagina detenta caraciture came to mind.

      - This leads to my final query/comment, so am i supposed to see this
      final imagery as a phallic like object either penetrating or
      extruding itself from a vaginal like concourse enroute to
      Escape? Were Utena and Anthy trapped in some archetypal Womb? Albeit
      a less than nurturing one?

      still working on gaining my Utena mojo.....donnaneely
    • anthyroserain
      ... reminiscent ... of ... Didn t Ikuhara say something in one of those commentaries about getting the idea from Chiho Saito s drawings, which featured people
      Message 2 of 4 , Jun 1, 2004
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        > - Both Anthy and Akio had red markings on their forehead
        reminiscent
        > of spiritual or religious markings/designations. Was this to make
        > clearer that these two were "Other" or Witches? Or just the fancy
        of
        > our illustrious Utena anime director Ikuhara.

        Didn't Ikuhara say something in one of those commentaries about
        getting the idea from Chiho Saito's drawings, which featured people
        with similar markings? So I guess that's why he put them in. But why
        she did it in the first place is anybody's guess.

        > Anthy chose
        > Utena? Anthy called her to the first duel? I dont recall that being
        > the impetus for dueling in the series. I thought it was
        > seeing Anthy be battered around by Saionji and disliking that on
        > principle?

        I may be totally misreading the movie/series, but I think that,
        regardless of the circumstances of the first duel, the idea that
        Anthy "chose" Utena is used to emphasize the fact that Anthy must
        ultimately bring about her own freedom. For the revolution to occur,
        she cannot be passive; she has to decide that Utena is the one she
        wants to escape with. If Anthy had been indifferent about her own
        (for lack of a better word) salvation, she could never have left
        Ohtori. I think the idea of Anthy choosing Utena among the duelists
        is used to emphasize this... and of course, that's why Anthy's the
        one driving at the end. (I also think Akio is already dead in the
        movie for this reason: the filmmakers wanted to make it clear that
        Utena and Anthy are the creators of their own destinies, not pawns in
        Akio's game.)


        And of course, more literalness with them kissing again at
        > the close. There really was no room for doubt about the nature of
        > their relationship in the movie. Whereas in the series - squeamish
        > folks might have been able to see them as friends to the end.
        > Especially since Utena in the series has the conversation with Juri
        > drawing a distinction between Juri's kind of feelings for Shiori,
        and
        > her own for Anthy. Using the word Pure and such.

        i really don't understand why they put in that conversation (in the
        series). Not sure if it was an "eww yuri" reaction, or Utena in
        denial, or something else.
        I think the ending is used to make the show's feminist ideas more
        obvious, since the series is more easily misunderstood. (I remember
        reading some review in which the reviewer said how sad it was that
        Utena didn't get her prince at the end of the series, because she
        deserved a happy ending. I really hope that guy wasn't serious.)

        > so am i supposed to see this
        > final imagery as a phallic like object either penetrating or
        > extruding itself from a vaginal like concourse enroute to
        > Escape? Were Utena and Anthy trapped in some archetypal Womb?
        Albeit
        > a less than nurturing one?

        Wow. I would like to hear more thoughts about this, though I
        don't think I can add much to the conversation, Freudian imagery
        creeps me out. (And in a show like Utena, with roses and swords all
        over the place, where do you stop?)

        -Katie,
        who must reply to every! single! Utena! post! just because
      • stellaluna_42
        ... movie ... reminiscent ... of ... I have a theory. It could be witches.... um sorry, been listening to the Buffy musical. Anyway, TONS of stuff in the
        Message 3 of 4 , Jun 8, 2004
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          --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "donnaneely" <donnaneely@y...> wrote:
          > Funny this subject should come up......I happened to watch the
          movie
          > this weekend also. I was noticing the following - and would love
          > comments or corrections from my more-knowledgeable-about-Utena
          > listmates:
          >
          > - Both Anthy and Akio had red markings on their forehead
          reminiscent
          > of spiritual or religious markings/designations. Was this to make
          > clearer that these two were "Other" or Witches? Or just the fancy
          of
          > our illustrious Utena anime director Ikuhara.

          I have a theory. It could be witches.... um sorry, been listening to
          the Buffy musical.

          Anyway, TONS of stuff in the series comes from Herman Hesse's
          _Damien_, most notably, Touga's egg speech. In _Damien_ there are
          special people in the world who bear the Mark of Cain. They don't fit
          in and are really smart and mysterious and all that other good
          outsider stuff. I think that Anthy and Akio's caste marks might be a
          reference to that.

          Can you spot the other characters in the series with facial marks? ^_^

          STELLALUNA ^_^v
        • donnaneely
          Stellaluna: Aaaacccchhhh, i guess I DO have to start watching the series all over again since I cant for the life of me think of who else had facial marks - my
          Message 4 of 4 , Jun 11, 2004
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            Stellaluna: Aaaacccchhhh, i guess I DO have to start watching the
            series all over again since I cant for the life of me think of who
            else had facial marks - my guess would be Mikages beloved - Mayima
            was it (sorry i am bad at names)?

            i will be back with my report soon ; >

            donna

            --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "stellaluna_42" <stellaluna_42@y...>
            wrote:
            > --- In Yuricon@yahoogroups.com, "donnaneely" <donnaneely@y...> > > -
            Both Anthy and Akio had red markings on their forehead
            > reminiscent
            > > of spiritual or religious markings/designations. Was this to make
            > > clearer that these two were "Other" or Witches? Or just the
            fancy of
            > > our illustrious Utena anime director Ikuhara.


            >
            > Can you spot the other characters in the series with facial marks?
            ^_^
            >
            > STELLALUNA ^_^v
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