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  • atheniag
    Firstly and most importantly - Yuricon 2003 T-shirts, sweatshirts and minposters are available! Get your official Yuricon 2003 designs here and *nowhere*
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 7, 2003
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      Firstly and most importantly - Yuricon 2003 T-shirts, sweatshirts and minposters are available!

      Get your official Yuricon 2003 designs here and *nowhere* else...that's right, not even the con itself. We're not printing up shirts to sell at the con - this is the *only* place you can buy the official Yuricon 2003 design, created by Merisu-san and colored by Kun.

      http://www.yuricon.org/goodies.htm

      (And for those of you who like to gloat, grab up a few miniposters, get 'em signed by the guests and give 'em to friends who aren't coming - that'll show them.)


      Also fresh from the farm, 2 of the 3 lectures presented at MIT last month about Gender and Sexuality in Japanese Animation, presented by con Chair Erica Friedman and auxiliary staffer (and excellent lecturer) Dr. Kerey Luis!

      http://www.yuricon.org/essay.htm

      Last, but by no means least....

      A new Poll! Yes, we're trying to nail down the definitively *lesbian* anime series and here's your chance to weigh in with the final vote. Plus, a new name or two added to "The List"!

      http://www.yuricon.org/list.htm


      ** ONE week left for Pre-registration - make sure you get your 30% off the full three-day price! Time is, (really, this isn't a sales pitch) running out!

      http://www.yuricon.org/Registry/index.html
    • Trixterpriest@aol.com
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 10, 2003
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        << Also fresh from the farm, 2 of the 3 lectures presented at MIT last month
        about Gender and Sexuality in Japanese Animation, presented by con Chair
        Erica Friedman and auxiliary staffer (and excellent lecturer) Dr. Kerey Luis!

        http://www.yuricon.org/essay.htm >>

        I just got around to reading your essay Erica, and I just had to say that I
        loved the ending line =^.^=

        Kun
        ---'-,-{@
      • Erica Friedman
        ... Thanks - I needed *something* to end the with. :-) I m very bad with endings and beginnings. Cheers, Erica Yuricon - For real women
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 10, 2003
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          >From: Trixterpriest@...


          >I just got around to reading your essay Erica, and I just had to say that I
          >loved the ending line =^.^=

          Thanks - I needed *something* to end the <expletive deleted> with. :-) I'm
          very bad with endings and beginnings.

          Cheers,

          Erica

          Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
          http://www.yuricon.org


          "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
          The Fanfic Revolution - http://www.fanficrevolution.org

          Because fanfic does not have to suck

          _________________________________________________________________
          MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
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        • Trixterpriest@aol.com
          I just got around to reading your essay Erica, and I just had to say that I ... Thanks - I needed *something* to end the with. :-) I m
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 10, 2003
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            << >I just got around to reading your essay Erica, and I just had to say that
            I
            >loved the ending line =^.^=

            Thanks - I needed *something* to end the <expletive deleted> with. :-) I'm
            very bad with endings and beginnings. >>

            psh.

            Kun
            ----'-,-{@
            *does a little psh dance*
          • Johann Chua
            http://www.yuricon.org/ericamit.htm About _Kaze to Ki no Uta_: I usually hear the manga described as shounen ai, ut the anime as yaoi. I m guessing it s
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 11, 2003
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              http://www.yuricon.org/ericamit.htm

              About _Kaze to Ki no Uta_: I usually hear the manga described as shounen ai,
              ut the anime as yaoi. I'm guessing it's because the term yaoi wasn't invent
              until sometime in the 1980s, so the 1970s stuff is technically all shounen
              ai. KtKnU is noted as the first sexually expilcit shounen ai manga,
              though.
              --
              Johann Chua -- HP: http://www.geocities.com/fuuma_1999/
              "Does anything last forever? Does love? Does pain? I'll
              tell you when I'm a thousand years old." Karen Kunawicz
            • Eltink, Royi
              ... Hmmm... That would be also interesting on what limit we are talking whether something is Shounenai or Yaoi. I did considered the anime as quite explicit. I
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 11, 2003
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                > In which case, if we're talking *western* usage then KtKnU,
                > the anime is
                > shounenai, since it's not explicitly sexual and the manga
                > would be yaoi.

                Hmmm... That would be also interesting on what limit we are talking whether something is Shounenai or Yaoi. I did considered the anime as quite explicit. I mean, it didnt left a lot for imagination.
                (I hadnt read the manga yet...)


                Ro'
              • Erica Friedman
                ... In which case, if we re talking *western* usage then KtKnU, the anime is shounenai, since it s not explicitly sexual and the manga would be yaoi. Or not,
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 11, 2003
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                  >From: Johann Chua <cjchua@...>
                  >Reply-To: Yuricon@yahoogroups.com

                  >About _Kaze to Ki no Uta_: I usually hear the manga described as shounen
                  >ai,
                  >ut the anime as yaoi. I'm guessing it's because the term yaoi wasn't
                  >invent
                  > until sometime in the 1980s, so the 1970s stuff is technically all
                  >shounen
                  >ai. KtKnU is noted as the first sexually expilcit shounen ai manga,
                  >though.


                  In which case, if we're talking *western* usage then KtKnU, the anime is
                  shounenai, since it's not explicitly sexual and the manga would be yaoi.

                  Or not, because the distinction in Japan is pretty much gone, afaict.



                  Cheers,

                  Erica

                  Yuricon - "For real women who like their women...animated."
                  http://www.yuricon.org


                  "World Shaking" Fanfic - http://www.worldshaking.net
                  The Fanfic Revolution - http://www.fanficrevolution.org

                  Because fanfic does not have to suck


                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
                  http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
                • PhoenixStar15@aol.com
                  with. :-) I m very bad with endings and beginnings. Well it s not really the end or the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 11, 2003
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                    <<Thanks - I needed *something* to end the <expletive deleted> with. :-) I'm
                    very bad with endings and beginnings.>>

                    Well it's not really the end or the beginnings that count now is it?  "It's all about the journey," or something like that.


                    meghan
                    the cynic of sweetness and light

                    "I believe that you're as human as I, and I'm glad of that"

                    live/deadjournal: edens_echo
                  • Johann Chua
                    ... whether ... explicit. ... The manga opens with two boys writhing in bed. Haven t read it myself, just saw the relevant pages in _Manga! Manga!_. AFAICT,
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 11, 2003
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                      At 03:14 PM 03/11/2003 +0100, Eltink, Royi wrote:
                      >> In which case, if we're talking *western* usage then KtKnU,
                      >> the anime is
                      >> shounenai, since it's not explicitly sexual and the manga
                      >> would be yaoi.
                      >
                      >Hmmm... That would be also interesting on what limit we are talking
                      whether
                      >something is Shounenai or Yaoi. I did considered the anime as quite
                      explicit.
                      >I mean, it didnt left a lot for imagination.
                      >(I hadnt read the manga yet...)

                      The manga opens with two boys writhing in bed. Haven't read it myself,
                      just saw the relevant pages in _Manga! Manga!_.

                      AFAICT, the "real" difference between shounen ai and yaoi manga is that the
                      former is run in shoujo magazines while the lattter is in doujinshi
                      (original or parody) or yaoi magazines (which are aimed at women rather
                      than girls).
                      --
                      Johann Chua -- HP: http://www.geocities.com/fuuma_1999/
                      "Does anything last forever? Does love? Does pain? I'll
                      tell you when I'm a thousand years old." Karen Kunawicz
                    • Johann Chua
                      ... Hmm. I know of yaoi magazines (of varying degrees of explicitness) but not shounen ai ones. -- Johann Chua -- HP: http://www.geocities.com/fuuma_1999/
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 11, 2003
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                        At 09:17 AM 03/11/2003 -0500, Erica Friedman wrote:
                        >In which case, if we're talking *western* usage then KtKnU, the anime is
                        >shounenai, since it's not explicitly sexual and the manga would be yaoi.
                        >
                        >Or not, because the distinction in Japan is pretty much gone, afaict.

                        Hmm. I know of yaoi magazines (of varying degrees of explicitness) but not
                        shounen ai ones.
                        --
                        Johann Chua -- HP: http://www.geocities.com/fuuma_1999/
                        "Does anything last forever? Does love? Does pain? I'll
                        tell you when I'm a thousand years old." Karen Kunawicz
                      • Shirobara Hime
                        ... Oh, oh, a chance to make myself useful! :) :) This is a guide with exact definitions for all those terms we Westerners are sooo terribly confused about.
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 13, 2003
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                          > AFAICT, the "real" difference between shounen ai and yaoi manga
                          > is that the former is run in shoujo magazines while the lattter
                          > is in doujinshi (original or parody) or yaoi magazines (which
                          > are aimed at women rather than girls).

                          Oh, oh, a chance to make myself useful! :) :) This is a guide with
                          exact definitions for all those terms we Westerners are sooo
                          terribly confused about. It's by Lynda of the AMLA list, and has
                          the official AMLA seal of approval - which is to say, it's
                          as accurate as accurate can be. :)

                          **BEGINS**

                          The following are attempts to define terms as they are currently
                          used, with some historical information to give you a feel for
                          their evolution and a few examples where examples might be useful.
                          Some of these terms are subject to changes in fads and as this is
                          a rapidly changing publishing field that is continuing to evolve,
                          terms will evolve as well.

                          Boys' Love
                          -----------
                          Boys' love (BL) is the common term used by the publishing industry
                          to categorize works focusing on male/male relationships marketed
                          at women. Historically these works were referred to as June, but
                          most commercial works are now called BL. The change in terminology
                          was probably due to the negative connotations of the term yaoi and
                          the association with a specific publication of the term June. BL
                          is an extension of shoujo and Lady's categories, but is considered
                          a separate category. The BL category is very broad. It is an
                          umbrella term that includes:

                          - both commercial and amateur works
                          - works with no sex
                          - works with sex
                          - doujinshi about adolescents with little or no sex
                          - works in all types of media - manga, anime, novels, games, and
                          drama CDs
                          - characters of all ages (not limited to 'boys')
                          - related terms such as yaoi, shounen-ai, tanbi, June, and
                          original June

                          However, it does not include gay publications.

                          Boys' love is not referred to as shounen-ai. Boys' love and
                          shounen-ai are two different terms. Boys' love is also referred to
                          as BL, boys', boys-mono. Punctuation and capitalization vary, so
                          you will see boys love, boys' love, boy's love, bl and BL. We at
                          Aestheticism have chosen to standardize on boys' love and BL.

                          While early fans of BL were probably fans of doujinshi, most
                          Japanese fans on the net these days appear to be fans of
                          commercial BL work - there are over a hundred such works published
                          every month, more than two-thirds of them novels and the rest
                          manga. BL novels are immensely popular - the number of novels
                          published each month outnumbers manga tankoubon by about 2 to 1.

                          Some Westerners object to the definition of the category as being
                          written for women. The target market is determined by advertising
                          and is primarily women, although there are publications, such as
                          Zettai Reido, which have multiple target audiences. That does not
                          mean that men don't read BL, merely that the audience the
                          advertisers, editors, and authors have in mind is women.

                          Note that BL can also be used as a content descriptor/trope term.
                          When used this way, BL works cross multiple marketing categories.

                          June
                          -----------
                          June was an early publication featuring male/male stories in the
                          tanbi style. People used to refer to the category of male/male
                          relationships targeted at the female audience as June, but since
                          that was a trade name for a magazine, that meaning of the term has
                          fallen into disuse. The category has evolved and changed so much
                          and the types of stories so varied that the entire category is now
                          called BL by the industry and most fans. In some places, including
                          Comiket, original stories are still called 'sousaku (original)
                          June'.

                          Lady's
                          -----------
                          Lady's comics are comics written for older women, probably from
                          age 20 up. It parallels men's manga in age range and range of
                          story. Lady's stories are usually about characters assumed to be
                          heterosexual, but can be about or include male/male relations.
                          Many Lady's and shoujo comics contain homosexual characters and
                          homoerotic/homosexual themes, including sex scenes, but they're
                          not considered BL (mainly a commercial categorization) or yaoi
                          (main theme of the story is sex). Lady's and shoujo manga that
                          include male/male elements or homoerotic overtones are sometimes
                          referred to as having 'homo relationship' or 'homo/gay character'
                          and include New York, New York by Ragawa Marimo and Ningen Club by
                          Teradate Kasuko.

                          Shoujo
                          -----------
                          Shoujo comics are written for girls, from the approximate ages of
                          six to 16. It parallels shounen (boy) manga in age range and range
                          of story. Shoujo stories are usually about characters assumed to
                          be heterosexual, but can be about or include male/male
                          relationships, including sex. But they are still considered shoujo
                          comics. Shoujo manga that include male/male elements or homoerotic
                          overtones include Banana Fish by Yoshida Akimi, and Boys Next Door
                          by Yuki Kaori.

                          Many Westerners seem to think any 'strong friendship' between two
                          men, such as in Pet Shop of Horrors by Akino Matsuri, is yaoi and
                          necessarily hints at a sexual relationship, but it doesn't. What
                          some Westerners choose to call shounen-ai (works with no sex
                          scenes) is never, ever called shounen-ai in Japan; it's just a
                          regular part of shoujo and Lady's categories. Hints appear all
                          over the place as well as characters that are downright
                          homosexual. It means nothing by Japanese standards. It's just
                          shoujo with homoerotic hints. Japanese fans are so used to this,
                          most of them don't even think of them as being unusual or
                          homoerotic. Girls who are not BL fans are likely to be disgusted
                          by outright BL even if they're not bothered at all by homoerotic
                          hints in shoujo.

                          Shounen-ai
                          -----------
                          Shounen-ai is an obsolete term. Shounen-ai refers to stories about
                          strong relationships between pubescent or pre-pubescent boys. The
                          stories featured angsty, poetic, platonic or romantic
                          relationships. It is used only to point to shoujo manga written in
                          the 70's and early 80's by authors such as Hagio Moto, Takemiya
                          Keiko, etc. (Titles such as Gymnasium in November, Heart of
                          Thomas, and Song of Wind and Trees.) Shounen-ai is no longer
                          written, ceased to exist as a sub-category of shoujo long ago, and
                          this term has long since fallen into disuse. Later stories with
                          male/male sexual relationships are termed yaoi, tanbi, june, or
                          boys' love.

                          Shounen-ai is not the same term as boys' love.

                          The current common usage of shounen-ai is to refer to adults who
                          like young boys (i.e. pedophiles).

                          Tanbi
                          -----------
                          Tanbi is no longer written. Tanbi is a word meaning 'the worship
                          and pursuit of beauty'. It was used to describe the early
                          male/male stories that mainly ran in June. June was heavily
                          influenced by a well-known author and literary critic who used
                          multiple pen names, so many of the stories utilized a high
                          literary style. These stories came to be called tanbi - stories
                          written for beauty and pursuit of beauty only. Tanbi style
                          includes flowery language and uncommon kanji/words, which makes it
                          a difficult read for foreigners.

                          The tanbi style is mainly a thing of the past. It has been
                          replaced by BL stories - mass written, easy-to-read stories. Even
                          authors known for their tanbi works like Yoshihara Rieko (Ai no
                          Kusabi) now write mainstream BL and no longer use tanbi style.
                          It's probably because tanbi, like its name, pursues beauty both in
                          language and storyline. It's not simple and fast-paced like the
                          modern BL stories.

                          Tanbi is like shounen-ai, no longer written but important in the
                          evolution of modern BL.

                          Tanbi sometimes is used interchangeably with boys' love by
                          bookstores, but that's an old usage. See June for further
                          information.

                          Yaoi
                          -----------
                          The term yaoi was originally used to point to badly drawn
                          doujinshi. It later came to be used to point to doujinshi with
                          male/male sex scenes. It now can also be used to refer to sex
                          scenes in any BL manga, or indicate that such scenes exist in a
                          work, or to refer to commercial works that consist mostly of such
                          scenes. For example, Zettai Reido, Boy's Pierce, and Comic June
                          are referred to as BL or yaoi interchangeably.

                          For a while, the word June was used for original male/male stories
                          and manga, but since June is a trade name for a commercial
                          publication, it has been largely replaced with BL. Commercially
                          published works that many Westerners call yaoi fall into the
                          category of BL in Japan.

                          Many Westerners use yaoi as an umbrella term to mean any story
                          that includes any male/male relationship and is linked to Japan -
                          commercial manga, anime, games, game-based slash fiction, English
                          fan fiction, fan art, etc. just as BL is used as an umbrella term
                          in Japan. In Japan the term yaoi is limited to doujinshi and sex
                          scenes, because of its negative connotations. Referring to a
                          commercial work as yaoi may be considered an insult to the work.
                          Referring to a commercial mangaka as a yaoi mangaka may also be
                          interpreted as an insult. Many titles which are shoujo, such as
                          Yami no Matsuei by Matsushita Youko and Bronze by Ozaki Minami,
                          are categorized by Westerners as yaoi.

                          Shounen-ai and tanbi are terms that are no longer used, and are of
                          historical interest only.

                          **ENDS**

                          Isn't yuri waaay simpler? Hehe. ;) Anyway, I hope you found
                          this article helpful.

                          White Rose



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                        • Johann Chua
                          ... Yeah. I ve noticed the term girls love on some Japanese websites used for both adult and non-adult work, though those were listed separately. Shoujo ai
                          Message 12 of 12 , Mar 14, 2003
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                            At 08:16 AM 03/13/2003 -0800, Shirobara Hime wrote:
                            >Isn't yuri waaay simpler? Hehe. ;)

                            Yeah. I've noticed the term "girls' love" on some Japanese websites used
                            for both adult and non-adult work, though those were listed separately.
                            Shoujo ai seems to have been invented to match non-Japanese usage of
                            shounen ai, though I've heard of it being used for f/f in women's doujishi
                            (something about to explain away why it's not in the men's section). Yuri
                            or girls' love doesn't seem to be a distinct genre as far as publishers or
                            bookstores are concerned, though. I've only heard of one magazine that
                            specialized in yuri (H manga, of course), Love Yuri Gumi; saw an anthology
                            manga of the same name on jpqueen.com.

                            >Anyway, I hope you found this article helpful.

                            I did, thaks for posting it. A bit more conprehensive than the last
                            article I read about yaoi, shounen ai, June, etc., a few years ago. "Boys'
                            love" wasn't even mentioned; first heard of it on Sequential Tart a few
                            months ago. But then, like anime, otaku, and hentai, the Japaneseness of
                            yaoi is appealing to non-Japanese fans, even if the word isn't used exactly
                            as it is in Japanese. Even Japanese websites in English tend to follow
                            Western usage of hentai and yaoi.
                            --
                            Johann Chua -- HP: http://www.geocities.com/fuuma_1999/
                            "Does anything last forever? Does love? Does pain? I'll
                            tell you when I'm a thousand years old." Karen Kunawicz
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